MMO-Champion - Cataclysm Class & Mastery Systems Update
Update - I moved the "To Recap" part at the top of the post for those of you who hate walls of text. I also added a couple of blue posts about these changes

Cataclysm Class & Mastery Systems Update
[blizzquote author=Zarhym source=http://blue.mmo-champion.com/t/25626290449/cataclysm-class-amp-mastery-systems-update/]When we first announced our design goals for class talent trees back at BlizzCon 2009, one of our major stated focuses was to remove some of the boring and "mandatory" passive talents. We mentioned that we wanted talent choices to feel more flavorful and fun, yet more meaningful at the same time. Recently, we had our fansites release information on work-in-progress talent tree previews for druids, priests, shaman, and rogues. From those previews and via alpha test feedback, a primary response we heard was that these trees didn’t incorporate the original design goals discussed at BlizzCon. This response echoes something we have been feeling internally for some time, namely that the talent tree system has not aged well since we first increased the level cap beyond level 60. In an upcoming beta build, we will unveil bold overhauls of all 30 talent trees.

To Recap
When players reach level 10, they are presented with basic information on the three specializations within their class and are asked to choose one. Then they spend their talent point. The other trees darken and are unavailable until 31 points are spent in the chosen tree. The character is awarded an active ability, and one or more passive bonuses unique to the tree they've chosen. As they gain levels, they'll alternate between receiving a talent point and gaining new skills. They'll have a 31-point tree to work down, with each talent being more integral and exciting than they have been in the past. Once they spend their 31'st point in the final talent (at level 70), the other trees open up and become available to allocate points into from then on. As characters move into the level 78+ areas in Cataclysm, they'll begin seeing items with a new stat, Mastery. Once they learn the Mastery skill from their class trainer they'll receive bonuses from the stat based on the tree they've specialized in.

We understand that these are significant changes and we still have details to solidify. We feel, however, that these changes better fulfill our original class design goals for Cataclysm, and we're confident that they will make for a better gameplay experience. Your constructive feedback is welcomed and appreciated.

Talent Tree Vision

One of the basic tenets of Blizzard game design is that of “concentrated coolness.” We’d rather have a simpler design with a lot of depth, than a complicated but shallow design. The goal for Cataclysm remains to remove a lot of the passive (or lame) talents, but we don’t think that’s possible with the current tree size. To resolve this, we're reducing each tree to 31-point talents. With this reduction in tree size we need to make sure they're being purchased along a similar leveling curve, and therefore will also be reducing the number of total talent points and the speed at which they're awarded during the leveling process.

As a result, we can keep the unique talents in each tree, particularly those which provide new spells, abilities or mechanics. We’ll still have room for extra flavorful talents and room for player customization, but we can trim a great deal of fat from each tree. The idea isn’t to give players fewer choices, but to make those choices feel more meaningful. Your rotations won’t change and you won’t lose any cool talents. What will change are all of the filler talents you had to pick up to get to the next fun talent, as well as most talents that required 5 of your hard-earned points.

We are also taking a hard look at many of the mandatory PvP talents, such as spell pushback or mechanic duration reductions. While there will always be PvP vs. PvE builds, we’d like for the difference to be less extreme, so that players don’t feel like they necessarily need to spend their second talent specialization on a PvP build.

The Rise of Specialization

We want to focus the talent trees towards your chosen style of gameplay right away. That first point you spend in a tree should be very meaningful. If you choose Enhancement, we want you to feel like an Enhancement shaman right away, not thirty talent points later. When talent trees are unlocked at level 10, you will be asked to choose your specialization (e.g. whether you want to be an Arms, Fury or Protection warrior) before spending that first point. Making this choice comes with certain benefits, including whatever passive bonuses you need to be effective in that role, and a signature ability that used to be buried deeper in the talent trees. These abilities and bonuses are only available by specializing in a specific tree. Each tree awards its own unique active ability and passives when chosen. The passive bonuses range from flat percentage increases, like a 20% increase to Fire damage for Fire mages or spell range increases for casters, to more interesting passives such as the passive rage regeneration of the former Anger Management talent for Arms warriors, Dual-Wield Specialization for Fury warriors and Combat rogues, or the ability to dual-wield itself for Enhancement shaman.

The initial talent tree selection unlocks active abilities that are core to the chosen role. Our goal is to choose abilities that let the specializations come into their own much earlier than was possible when a specialization-defining talent had to be buried deep enough that other talent trees couldn’t access them. For example, having Lava Lash and Dual-Wield right away lets an Enhancement shaman feel like an Enhancement shaman. Other role-defining examples of abilities players can now get for free at level 10 include Mortal Strike, Bloodthirst, Shield Slam, Mutilate, Shadow Step, Thunderstorm, Earth Shield, Water Elemental, and Penance.

Getting Down to the Grit

Talent trees will have around 20 unique talents instead of today's (roughly) 30 talents, and aesthetically will look a bit more like the original World of Warcraft talent trees. The 31-point talents will generally be the same as the 51-point talents we already had planned for Cataclysm. A lot of the boring or extremely specialized talents have been removed, but we don't want to remove anything that’s going to affect spell/ability rotations. We want to keep overall damage, healing, and survivability roughly the same while providing a lot of the passive bonuses for free based on your specialization choice.

While leveling, you will get 1 talent point about every 2 levels (41 points total at level 85). Our goal is to alternate between gaining a new class spell or ability and gaining a talent point with each level. As another significant change, you will not be able to put points into a different talent tree until you have dedicated 31 talent points to your primary specialization. While leveling, this will be possible at 70. Picking a talent specialization should feel important. To that end, we want to make sure new players understand the significance of reaching the bottom of their specialization tree before gaining the option of spending points in the other trees. We intend to make sure dual-specialization and re-talenting function exactly as they do today so players do not feel locked into their specialization choice.

A True Mastery

The original passive Mastery bonuses players were to receive according to how they spent points in each tree are being replaced by the automatic passive bonuses earned when a tree specialization is chosen. These passives are flat percentages and we no longer intend for them to scale with the number of talent points spent. The Mastery bonus that was unique to each tree will now be derived from the Mastery stat, found on high-level items, and Mastery will be a passive skill learned from class trainers around level 75. In most cases, the Mastery stats will be the same as the tree-unique bonuses we announced earlier this year. These stats can be improved by stacking Mastery Rating found on high-level items.
[/blizzquote]


Blue posts
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
"Old" masteries
I would not focus too much on the old masteries, except for the third one that scales with gear. That one is still around.

Vengeance for tanks is still around and dps get damage and healers get healing and that sort of thing but the system has changed quite a bit overall (and partially as a result of community feedback). (Source)

Next beta build will be interesting
We want to unveil the entire enchilada in the next beta build or so. Everyone here worked really hard to get the whole package to a relatively playable and polished state. In essence we're not announcing a future plan -- we're telling you how the game works today. It's all done.

It's hard to offer timelines for when we will do a new beta push, but we're talking days or a few weeks, not months. All of the passives will be visible then. (Source)

Talent Points gain rate
About one every other level, but there are some exceptions. We are trying to alternate new abilities and talent points where possible. You will have 41 talent points at 85. (Source)

Spec abilities scaling
Specialization-defining abilities that are unlocked (e.g. Mutilate, Penance, Water Elemental and Mortal Strike) will scale based on a character's level and reflect an appropriate amount of damage, healing, and mitigation, etc. With the proper balancing, having these abilities at level 10 won't trivialize the leveling experience, but instead enhance it by allowing players to incorporate unique spells and skills that highlight their specialization into their rotations at a much earlier level.

We'll be closely monitoring how these new talent changes affect gameplay in the beta and will make adjustments to the system if necessary to ensure that our original goals are met. (Source)

Dual Spec
Dual Spec won't change. If you choose Protection paladin at level 10, you can respec to Ret paladin at your class trainer. Once you unlock Dual Spec, you can have 2 Prot builds or a Prot and Ret build or whatever you'd like. It will work almost exactly the way it does now. (Source)

New Talent system is ZOMG AMAZING
It's ZOMG AMAZING. We wouldn't go through all the work it is taking if we weren't convinced it was 100% win.

On your first point, too many of the specs didn't really feel like their spec until they had spent a lot of talents in the tree. All mages pretty much played the same until level 30 to 40 or so. Even with the Cataclysm changes, a Holy, Prot and Ret paladin would pretty much be using Crusader Strike and Judgements until they had several more abilities unlocked.

On your second point, we know some players liked the option of spending some points in the first tree and then some in the second tree. Often this was just a trap for new players though because it delays your getting the 21, 31 and other "gold medal" talents that really define your tree. Experienced players might learn to get a 5/5/5 build or whatever and then respec once they could reach the 31, but we could also just make better trees that didn't ask you to do that. (Source)

How big are the new trees?
They have 38-42 or so points in them. You could spend all 41 points in one tree, though often you'll want a 5/5/31 or a 0/7/34 build instead. Every talent is 1, 2 or 3 talent points. Earlier levels have about 8 points on them (typically a 2, 2, 3) and deeper levels have about 5 points on them (typically a 1, 2, 3). (Source)

New Talent trees overview
They look superficially like vanilla talent trees, but they are far more interesting.

Almost without exception, the talents we cut were the ones everyone took or the ones nobody took. There will still be very attractive talents that probably everyone takes, but there are also definitely choices where you can only take A or B and want both. Typically you might see a useful (but not necessarily dps-enhancing) ability in your own tree, but also a really attractive one in another tree.

This is a good thing. It won't surprise me to see a knee jerk reaction from some players that we're removing their favorite talents and "dumbing down the trees." However, I'd challenge them that there can't be that many players out there that play Arcane because of Mind Mastery or Arms warrior because of Strength of Arms. Yet, if you skip either of those talents, you're just making your character less effective.

A Cataclysm goal is to remove lame or boring talents. Yet we don't want to replace all of those with procs or game-changers. Really the only solution is to have smaller trees where nearly every remaining talent is a big deal. (Source)

Hybrid builds and active talents
You typically won't get active abilities from a second tree. The most you can get in a second tree is 10 points, and usually the active abilities are deeper than this. We think it makes the distinction between say a Frost and Unholy DK more pronounced when all of their talented active abilities are different rather than being able to cherry pick the best from each tree. It does end up killing any chance for a build that goes halfway down two trees, but usually we would consider such builds failures because it meant the bottom of "your" tree wasn't good enough. These were most popular in PvP when players felt compelled to get "must have" PvP survival talents in multiple trees, and those are the kind of talents we want dead anyway.

With these changes though, the talent trees are going to be even more rebuilt than we were already planning with Cataclysm. Talents are moving all over the trees and every tree has new talents as well. We'll give you a chance to see the trees soon (tm). (Source)

Current talents are too complicated
The new model theoretically buys us several more expansions of not having to mess with the overarching talent tree design. In a broader sense though, one of the challenges of working on World of Warcraft is adding new content without making the game totally inaccessible to new players.

I have used this example several times, but we have one very senior designer at Blizzard who isn't working on WoW but obviously knows the game very well and has been very active in PvP and raiding at various points in time. He took a short break from the game (I suspect to play Modern Warfare 2) and when he came back, we had messed around with his class's talent trees and reset his talent points, so he felt like he couldn't jump back into the game again without spending 45 minutes researching what the community thought a good build would be. We're hoping with simpler (but still deep!) talent trees, players like him will feel more comfortable picking their own talents. He might eventually go poke around in theorycrafting forums to min / max his build, but he won't have the moment of being completely overwhelmed when looking at a blank talent tree. (Source)

In previous expansions, more choices were given to the players in terms of how they built their characters. Players were freely given the choice to spend points however they want.
[...] While that is true, they were also given ample opportunities to make mistakes, what we call "traps." A forum-savy player may know which are the dumb talents nobody takes or which are the mandatory ones that might at first glance seem too bland to take. But why have "choices" that are just there for new players or people who just want to swim against the stream just to be different? We'd rather have actual legitimate choices, which we feel like we can offer by having a stable of fewer good talents.

To use one of the infamous GC analogies, the best restaurants are not necessarily those with a lot of entrees on the menu. The best restaurants probably have very few choices, but you know that anything you order will be great. They don't bother cooking it if they know it will suck. That's a real choice as opposed to the diner with fish on the menu that everyone, ever the waitress, whispers under their breath that you should never, ever order. (Source)

Dungeon Finder and new talent system
We expect a lot of players to use Dungeon Finder while leveling up. The feature works great for that, and we're spending some effort to update the older dungeons to not be so overspawned and in some cases to even fit into the zone quest content better.

Likewise, we're making an effort to let tank and healing specs be more effective when soloing. DPS specs will still probably be more efficient leveling, but if you just love the Resto shaman tree, you should be able to quest and run some dungeons without even having a dual-spec. It won't be spectacular, but it will be a huge improvement from today.

Tanks and healers will get basic abilities before level 15 (when Dungeon Finder is available) to do their jobs, but it's also true that the lower level content is more forgiving of your talent spec. (Source)

Vengeance
You get it at level 10 for choosing a tanking tree. It already scaled with your health and incoming damage, so there isn't really a need for it to scale with talent points spent (especially since nearly 100% of tanks spend the most points in a tanking tree). (Source)

Death Knight (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator)
When do DK get to pick a specialization?
When they get their first talent point for completing a quest. (Source)

Deleted talents
Looking at Unholy, talents like Impurity, Desolation, Wandering Plague, Crypt Fever (but not Ebon Plaguebringer) and Rage of Rivendare (sad about the lore hit there) are gone. (Source)

Druid (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator / Cataclysm Talent Calculator)
Feral builds with the new system
Feral is a challenge. We still want to have a cat-centric, bear-centric or hybrid build. It has always been one of the more challenging trees to work on. (Source)

Omen of Clarity
Likewise, we're not sure what we'll do with Omen yet. The obvious choices are leave it Resto only, put it high enough for everyone to subspec or make it a trained ability. (Source)

Paladin (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator)
Divine Storm @LVL10 for Retribution
Divine Storm is a big deal because Retribution paladins get it at level 10. You'll get a new bottom o' the tree talent. (Source)

Priest (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator / Cataclysm Talent Calculator)
Mind Flay and Shadowform @LVL1x for Shadow
We really wanted to do this, but the more we thought about it, what does a level 10 Shadowform do? Spam Shadow Word: Pain? We'll probably give Shadow priests Mind Flay at level 10 and let them get Shadowform shortly after that. (Source)

Holy signature ability
We think healers will expect to get an actual heal (or some kind of defensive ability) as their signature spell, but we also want something that's actually useful at level 10. Lightwell, Circle of Healing and even Spirit of Redemption are very signature Holy abilities, but none are very useful when soloing gnolls in Elwynn. (Source)

Rogue (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator / Cataclysm Talent Calculator)
Preparation
It's a design flaw that rogues and locks are so dependent on Prep and Soul Link respectively. Those talents are currently holding the classes back. Now we can't balance around the assumption that you have those talents so your classes need to function without them. Maybe it means lowering base cooldowns.... (Source)

Shadowstep
Naturally, the 31-point Shadow Dance is totally inaccessible to Rogues speccing other trees. But what about Shadowstep? Is that a tree-specific, unpointed talent that is totally inaccessible to all other specs?
Inaccessible. Shadowstep is essentially no longer a talent. There is nowhere to buy it. You don't get any passive bonuses for picking your second tree. Essentially you choose at level 10 whether to be an Assassination, Combat or Subtlety rogue, and while you can change your mind later, that determines what special ability and what passives you get. (Source)

Shaman (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator / Cataclysm Talent Calculator)
Dual Wield for Enhancement
So now my cagey comments about how Enhancement gets dual-wield right away and Elemental never gets it make more sense. (Source)

Warlock (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator)
Soul Link
It's a design flaw that rogues and locks are so dependent on Prep and Soul Link respectively. Those talents are currently holding the classes back. Now we can't balance around the assumption that you have those talents so your classes need to function without them. Maybe it means lowering base cooldowns.... (Source)

Probably no early Felguard for Demonology
It probably won't be Felguard. It's a little odd to spring that on a warlock that doesn't even have a Voidwalker yet. (Source)

Cool talents aren't going away
Warlocks are hard.

With a mage, you can keep Frost from throwing a lot of Fireballs just by making Frost do Frost damage. The warlocks don't have schools like that, and they have some shared spells, so it's tricky to get them to use the spells we want them to use sometimes. None of the cool talents, the ones that change up what you're doing, such as Molten Core or Backdraft, are going away. (Source)

Warrior (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator)
Mortal Strike
It depends. Improved Mortal Strike for example is gone and that's just the way Mortal Strike hits now (we added the damage and cooldown into MS). (Source)

Shield Slam @LVL10 for Protection
Protection warriors get Shield Slam (and Arms and Fury lose it). Devastate is still an attractive talent deep in the tree, but it doesn't say "Prot warrior" the way Shield Slam does. (Source)

Toughness stays, Vitality is a passive bonus
Protection has one passive talent, which is Toughness. They get Vitality as a passive for choosing Protection at level 10. The other talents are a mix of threat and defensive abilities, but none are as passive as Deflection. There are (hopefully) attractive talents in the first two tiers of Arms and Fury. The other tank trees will be similar but not identical (Feral as always will be the least similar). (Source)

Specialization Bonus - Anger Management and 2H Weapon Spec for Arms
The Arms one for the moment is Two-Handed Weapon Spec (+10% damage with two-Handed weapons) and Anger Management (free rage). (Source)

Arms - Mastery bonus in Cataclysm
Mastery still exists, but the design is a little cleaner.

Before:
Arms got some passive damage per talent point.
Arms got some passive armor pen per talent point.
Arms got a chance to proc a swing per talent point, which is enhanced by mastery rating on gear.

Now:
Arms gets whatever it needs as passives at level 10.
Arms gets a chance to proc a swing at level 78(ish), which is enhanced by mastery rating on gear.

Mastery now means "proc a swing" for Arms and that's all it means, which is easier to understand. (Source)
This article was originally published in forum thread: Cataclysm Class & Mastery Systems Update started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 699 Comments
  1. frott's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by sleekit View Post
    you under some kind of delusion that you are going to keep your existing talent tree or something ?

    no, i'm just not deluded that there won't be 1 ideal spec for every situation, so all of these requirements are silly.

    the myth that there will be "left over points" is bogus. either you're spending points towards something that helps you or you're not.
  1. ShellPhown's Avatar
    this is just hilarious, so many people that are too stupid to understand what is changing or just too lazy to read the whole post
  1. Vasz's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Devia View Post
    Some of you are so daft. Don't you get it? They aren't making talents LESS valuable, they are just compacting them. So instead of spending 5 points in a talent to get 1/2/3/4/5% more damage, it's more like spending 2 points to get 2.5/5% more damage(yes I know they are taking out talents like this that are considered mandatory, it's just an example).

    You're still going to get boomkin at level 40, it will just take you ~15 talent points to get there instead of 31.
    Thats the whole point in what they are doing. They are removing the: 1/2/3/4/5% damage talents all together, but keeping the 33/66/100% to cause fucking mayhem talents.
  1. Ofmanv's Avatar
    how many talents will players have total when they're level 85? 51?
  1. sleekit's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Arc-lance View Post
    *sigh* Chances are this game won't even make it to Cataclysm. BBC is involved with this forum business, and now its rumoured CBC is preparing an article, yet Blizzards stock has never been higher, and now this abomination. Don't they realise social games DON'T work? I used to play a social game, and they ruined it aswell due to the fact you needed to pay - noone wanted to subscribe to what basically became a forum.

    And the sad thing for me is, Blizzards stock INCREASED, by 2.83%. That being said, if they go through with the forum changes, they will be bankrupted by civil suits - its already been proven that with a persons name there is nothing to stop a person with the know how, from finding out everything about someone.

    "Mr Brand said that one Blizzard employee posted his real name on the forums, saying that there was no risk to users, and the experiment went drastically wrong.

    "Within five minutes, users had got hold of his telephone number, home address, photographs of him and a ton of other information," said Mr Brand"

    (Quote from the BBC) http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/10543100.stm
    number 7 in the top read storys no less.

    which means it'll be all over the UK papers tomorrow probably.

    concerned parents will ban kids from playing it (the details won't matter to many) and someone is bound to bring up the data protection act (which depending on interpretation makes this new use of personal information possibly illegal under UK law)

    the world isn't california (where im sure this is all considered de rigueur) and isnt all on facebook and blizzard really needs to realise that.

    its still off topic in this thread particular tho.
  1. ShellPhown's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Devia View Post
    Some of you are so daft. Don't you get it? They aren't making talents LESS valuable, they are just compacting them. So instead of spending 5 points in a talent to get 1/2/3/4/5% more damage, it's more like spending 2 points to get 2.5/5% more damage(yes I know they are taking out talents like this that are considered mandatory, it's just an example).

    You're still going to get boomkin at level 40, it will just take you ~15 talent points to get there instead of 31.
    If you read the whole post you can expect boomkin to come at level 10, and if you get 2.5% instead of 1% per point the talents are becoming MORE VALUABLE omg, not so hard
  1. Sammonoske's Avatar
    Glad I am leaving a few classes to level for cata. Some of them just don't feel like what I am spending talent points into. En.Sham for one.
  1. Tankbound's Avatar
    The talent point spread, I'm pretty positive is going to be like this:

    1 talent point every 2 levels until level 80, then 1 talent point from 81-85.

    Something like:
    10 = 1 talent point
    20 = 6 talent points
    30 = 11 talent points
    40 = 16 talent points
    50 = 21 talent points
    60 = 26 talent points
    70 = 31 talent points
    80 = 36 talent points
    81 = 37 talent points
    82 = 38 talent points
    83 = 39 talent points
    84 = 40 talent points
    85 = 41 talent points

    As for the changes themselves. I'm disappointed we're going to have less talent points than we did even at level 60, it somehow makes it seem like we'll be weaker. Although I'm sure if it's put together correctly it will be a good change. As for forcing people to spec 31 points before branching out... it'll force people to not be so bad, or not realize they have talent points for 40 levels or whatever.
  1. Nicola's Avatar
    OoH, can i has bladestorm at lvl 10 pls??
    Ok this is just lame, really i dont want a priest at lvl 10 with penance outhealing every1 but a warrior that pwns every healer in game at low lvl.. I guess I no longer can kill anyone in the lvl 10-59 bgs with just auto atk now every class is going to get a handfull of high lvl skills at low lvl...
  1. frott's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by AlarStormbringer View Post
    Sorry I didn't ask this in my first question, but it seems like they're severely cutting back on talent points we're receiving. Does this mean that, by the end of Cataclysm, we will see roughly half as many talents as there currently are? Or simply that we will not be given enough talent points to invest as far as we currently can? Right now, as the state of Cataclysm is, we will have 76 talent points to spend on a myriad of talents. Lots, and lots of talents with lots of choices. We would be getting shoehorned into only taking the MOST ESSENTIAL abilities for our specs if the number is reduced but talents aren't.
    It already is that way... they can't change that with every 1 point you spend there is an ideal place to put it depending on what you're doing.

    What would be amazing is if spending 31 points in, say, shadow gave you all of the shadow pvp + pve talents. But then they wouldn't have the illusion of "choice" that some people pretend exists.

    bottomline is if i'm dpsing, i take dps talents. i don't take some garbage that doesn't affect my dps. the interesting bit is if # of points in a tree effects your multiplier for mastery, which would have people potentially stacking 1 tree instead of going to a diff one for minor dps boosts that don't scale as well.

    as it stands if you take your current spec at 80 and dump points back into the main tree you have, the dps should be similar. so even if you're losing points, the points ought to be relatively stronger (people will not enjoy levelling with 1 talent point per 2 levels as it is). So cata launches and hooray you're pretty much exactly the same strength even though you're missing some talent points. If you get 1 a level with cata that's only a whopping 5 more to spend.

    ---------- Post added 2010-07-07 at 09:41 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ShellPhown View Post
    If you read the whole post you can expect boomkin to come at level 10, and if you get 2.5% instead of 1% per point the talents are becoming MORE VALUABLE omg, not so hard
    hi, not so hard:

    double the power, 1/2 as many points = same value.
  1. tusker's Avatar
    To the people constantly asking questions which are CLEARLY answered in the blue post; do you even come back to this thread to read the answer, assuming someone is nice enough to reiterate it for you?
  1. Paranitis's Avatar
    Idea: Good
    Execution: Awful

    The reason I can judge the execution before it ever happens, is just the fact that you are forced to spend points in only one tree until you get 31 points in it. Blizzard wants us to be able to feel like we are customizing our characters, but when we are being forced into choosing talents in one tree while we are looking at other trees and not even having a choice anymore, then it is a sad day.

    They might as well just say "Pick a specialization" and then have the game automatically fill the talent points in themselves.

    So at this point it is seeming bad things are happening.
    For one thing, we will not have the freedom of choice for our characters for the most part.
    Secondly with the RealID thing, while it does make sense as far as making people really be forced to decide whether they want to troll or not when we have their real information, the whole idea of privacy is blown out the window.

    What about younger kids playing? What about people who are just trying to ask questions and get answers without having to put their information out there for people? What about people with unique names that ask a question, then all of a sudden getting people messaging them on Facebook or something about being a noob or whatever since nobody else has their name?

    It's just not thought through at all on Blizzard's side of this.
  1. rkoehorst's Avatar
    bb hybrid speccs
  1. Guenhwyvaria's Avatar
    Well definitely a bit of nice news in-light of recent "events"
  1. frott's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Paranitis View Post
    Idea: Good
    Execution: Awful

    The reason I can judge the execution before it ever happens, is just the fact that you are forced to spend points in only one tree until you get 31 points in it. Blizzard wants us to be able to feel like we are customizing our characters, but when we are being forced into choosing talents in one tree while we are looking at other trees and not even having a choice anymore, then it is a sad day.

    They might as well just say "Pick a specialization" and then have the game automatically fill the talent points in themselves.

    So at this point it is seeming bad things are happening.
    For one thing, we will not have the freedom of choice for our characters for the most part.
    Secondly with the RealID thing, while it does make sense as far as making people really be forced to decide whether they want to troll or not when we have their real information, the whole idea of privacy is blown out the window.

    What about younger kids playing? What about people who are just trying to ask questions and get answers without having to put their information out there for people? What about people with unique names that ask a question, then all of a sudden getting people messaging them on Facebook or something about being a noob or whatever since nobody else has their name?

    It's just not thought through at all on Blizzard's side of this.
    No, pick a spec and game type: PVP (Arena), PVP (BG), PVE

    Then cookie cutter your spec. zzz.
  1. Recoverus's Avatar
    Not impressed. Not impressed at all. This game is not evolving - it's devolving and disintegrating.
  1. Devia's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by ShellPhown View Post
    If you read the whole post you can expect boomkin to come at level 10, and if you get 2.5% instead of 1% per point the talents are becoming MORE VALUABLE omg, not so hard
    Um...that's what I said? Reread it.
  1. MIQ's Avatar
    Me likes :-)
  1. Erudus's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Chib View Post
    TBH I dont like this idea, I enjoyed leveling a character and getting a new point to spend each level. Between that and some new gear it always felt like I was progressing. New ability every 2 levels was bareable but still it meant you had to wait.
    Of late I've been leveling a hunter and the pet doesnt recieve points each level and at times 4 levels before I got 1 more point. It left me rather bored with pets and not that greatly interested. To top it off it didnt feel like the pet was progressing with me as well at the same rate.
    Who honestly wants to go large gaps in leveling characters with no feeling of progress and being more powerful or useful? The game becomes more boring and peoples interest wanes somewhat, I know mine does and I would imagine new players will feel it more.
    You get an ability every 2 levels and a talent point every 2 levels... at level 10 you get a talent point... level 11 you get an ability... level 12 you get a talent point... level 13 you get an ability. Get my point? You're still going to feel like you're progressing since you're gaining something useful every level now instead of 1% hit for 5 levels... which TBH was quite shit, especially if it was a filler talent to get to the lower tier, nothing worse than leveling up and not gaining anything from it.
  1. xnickybx's Avatar
    Some of you need to redirect your nerdrage away from blizzard and back at your lack of reading comprehension. Never once does it say a tree will only have 31 spots to put the 31 points you need to move to the next tree.

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