MMO-Champion - Cataclysm Class & Mastery Systems Update
Update - I moved the "To Recap" part at the top of the post for those of you who hate walls of text. I also added a couple of blue posts about these changes

Cataclysm Class & Mastery Systems Update
[blizzquote author=Zarhym source=http://blue.mmo-champion.com/t/25626290449/cataclysm-class-amp-mastery-systems-update/]When we first announced our design goals for class talent trees back at BlizzCon 2009, one of our major stated focuses was to remove some of the boring and "mandatory" passive talents. We mentioned that we wanted talent choices to feel more flavorful and fun, yet more meaningful at the same time. Recently, we had our fansites release information on work-in-progress talent tree previews for druids, priests, shaman, and rogues. From those previews and via alpha test feedback, a primary response we heard was that these trees didn’t incorporate the original design goals discussed at BlizzCon. This response echoes something we have been feeling internally for some time, namely that the talent tree system has not aged well since we first increased the level cap beyond level 60. In an upcoming beta build, we will unveil bold overhauls of all 30 talent trees.

To Recap
When players reach level 10, they are presented with basic information on the three specializations within their class and are asked to choose one. Then they spend their talent point. The other trees darken and are unavailable until 31 points are spent in the chosen tree. The character is awarded an active ability, and one or more passive bonuses unique to the tree they've chosen. As they gain levels, they'll alternate between receiving a talent point and gaining new skills. They'll have a 31-point tree to work down, with each talent being more integral and exciting than they have been in the past. Once they spend their 31'st point in the final talent (at level 70), the other trees open up and become available to allocate points into from then on. As characters move into the level 78+ areas in Cataclysm, they'll begin seeing items with a new stat, Mastery. Once they learn the Mastery skill from their class trainer they'll receive bonuses from the stat based on the tree they've specialized in.

We understand that these are significant changes and we still have details to solidify. We feel, however, that these changes better fulfill our original class design goals for Cataclysm, and we're confident that they will make for a better gameplay experience. Your constructive feedback is welcomed and appreciated.

Talent Tree Vision

One of the basic tenets of Blizzard game design is that of “concentrated coolness.” We’d rather have a simpler design with a lot of depth, than a complicated but shallow design. The goal for Cataclysm remains to remove a lot of the passive (or lame) talents, but we don’t think that’s possible with the current tree size. To resolve this, we're reducing each tree to 31-point talents. With this reduction in tree size we need to make sure they're being purchased along a similar leveling curve, and therefore will also be reducing the number of total talent points and the speed at which they're awarded during the leveling process.

As a result, we can keep the unique talents in each tree, particularly those which provide new spells, abilities or mechanics. We’ll still have room for extra flavorful talents and room for player customization, but we can trim a great deal of fat from each tree. The idea isn’t to give players fewer choices, but to make those choices feel more meaningful. Your rotations won’t change and you won’t lose any cool talents. What will change are all of the filler talents you had to pick up to get to the next fun talent, as well as most talents that required 5 of your hard-earned points.

We are also taking a hard look at many of the mandatory PvP talents, such as spell pushback or mechanic duration reductions. While there will always be PvP vs. PvE builds, we’d like for the difference to be less extreme, so that players don’t feel like they necessarily need to spend their second talent specialization on a PvP build.

The Rise of Specialization

We want to focus the talent trees towards your chosen style of gameplay right away. That first point you spend in a tree should be very meaningful. If you choose Enhancement, we want you to feel like an Enhancement shaman right away, not thirty talent points later. When talent trees are unlocked at level 10, you will be asked to choose your specialization (e.g. whether you want to be an Arms, Fury or Protection warrior) before spending that first point. Making this choice comes with certain benefits, including whatever passive bonuses you need to be effective in that role, and a signature ability that used to be buried deeper in the talent trees. These abilities and bonuses are only available by specializing in a specific tree. Each tree awards its own unique active ability and passives when chosen. The passive bonuses range from flat percentage increases, like a 20% increase to Fire damage for Fire mages or spell range increases for casters, to more interesting passives such as the passive rage regeneration of the former Anger Management talent for Arms warriors, Dual-Wield Specialization for Fury warriors and Combat rogues, or the ability to dual-wield itself for Enhancement shaman.

The initial talent tree selection unlocks active abilities that are core to the chosen role. Our goal is to choose abilities that let the specializations come into their own much earlier than was possible when a specialization-defining talent had to be buried deep enough that other talent trees couldn’t access them. For example, having Lava Lash and Dual-Wield right away lets an Enhancement shaman feel like an Enhancement shaman. Other role-defining examples of abilities players can now get for free at level 10 include Mortal Strike, Bloodthirst, Shield Slam, Mutilate, Shadow Step, Thunderstorm, Earth Shield, Water Elemental, and Penance.

Getting Down to the Grit

Talent trees will have around 20 unique talents instead of today's (roughly) 30 talents, and aesthetically will look a bit more like the original World of Warcraft talent trees. The 31-point talents will generally be the same as the 51-point talents we already had planned for Cataclysm. A lot of the boring or extremely specialized talents have been removed, but we don't want to remove anything that’s going to affect spell/ability rotations. We want to keep overall damage, healing, and survivability roughly the same while providing a lot of the passive bonuses for free based on your specialization choice.

While leveling, you will get 1 talent point about every 2 levels (41 points total at level 85). Our goal is to alternate between gaining a new class spell or ability and gaining a talent point with each level. As another significant change, you will not be able to put points into a different talent tree until you have dedicated 31 talent points to your primary specialization. While leveling, this will be possible at 70. Picking a talent specialization should feel important. To that end, we want to make sure new players understand the significance of reaching the bottom of their specialization tree before gaining the option of spending points in the other trees. We intend to make sure dual-specialization and re-talenting function exactly as they do today so players do not feel locked into their specialization choice.

A True Mastery

The original passive Mastery bonuses players were to receive according to how they spent points in each tree are being replaced by the automatic passive bonuses earned when a tree specialization is chosen. These passives are flat percentages and we no longer intend for them to scale with the number of talent points spent. The Mastery bonus that was unique to each tree will now be derived from the Mastery stat, found on high-level items, and Mastery will be a passive skill learned from class trainers around level 75. In most cases, the Mastery stats will be the same as the tree-unique bonuses we announced earlier this year. These stats can be improved by stacking Mastery Rating found on high-level items.
[/blizzquote]


Blue posts
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
"Old" masteries
I would not focus too much on the old masteries, except for the third one that scales with gear. That one is still around.

Vengeance for tanks is still around and dps get damage and healers get healing and that sort of thing but the system has changed quite a bit overall (and partially as a result of community feedback). (Source)

Next beta build will be interesting
We want to unveil the entire enchilada in the next beta build or so. Everyone here worked really hard to get the whole package to a relatively playable and polished state. In essence we're not announcing a future plan -- we're telling you how the game works today. It's all done.

It's hard to offer timelines for when we will do a new beta push, but we're talking days or a few weeks, not months. All of the passives will be visible then. (Source)

Talent Points gain rate
About one every other level, but there are some exceptions. We are trying to alternate new abilities and talent points where possible. You will have 41 talent points at 85. (Source)

Spec abilities scaling
Specialization-defining abilities that are unlocked (e.g. Mutilate, Penance, Water Elemental and Mortal Strike) will scale based on a character's level and reflect an appropriate amount of damage, healing, and mitigation, etc. With the proper balancing, having these abilities at level 10 won't trivialize the leveling experience, but instead enhance it by allowing players to incorporate unique spells and skills that highlight their specialization into their rotations at a much earlier level.

We'll be closely monitoring how these new talent changes affect gameplay in the beta and will make adjustments to the system if necessary to ensure that our original goals are met. (Source)

Dual Spec
Dual Spec won't change. If you choose Protection paladin at level 10, you can respec to Ret paladin at your class trainer. Once you unlock Dual Spec, you can have 2 Prot builds or a Prot and Ret build or whatever you'd like. It will work almost exactly the way it does now. (Source)

New Talent system is ZOMG AMAZING
It's ZOMG AMAZING. We wouldn't go through all the work it is taking if we weren't convinced it was 100% win.

On your first point, too many of the specs didn't really feel like their spec until they had spent a lot of talents in the tree. All mages pretty much played the same until level 30 to 40 or so. Even with the Cataclysm changes, a Holy, Prot and Ret paladin would pretty much be using Crusader Strike and Judgements until they had several more abilities unlocked.

On your second point, we know some players liked the option of spending some points in the first tree and then some in the second tree. Often this was just a trap for new players though because it delays your getting the 21, 31 and other "gold medal" talents that really define your tree. Experienced players might learn to get a 5/5/5 build or whatever and then respec once they could reach the 31, but we could also just make better trees that didn't ask you to do that. (Source)

How big are the new trees?
They have 38-42 or so points in them. You could spend all 41 points in one tree, though often you'll want a 5/5/31 or a 0/7/34 build instead. Every talent is 1, 2 or 3 talent points. Earlier levels have about 8 points on them (typically a 2, 2, 3) and deeper levels have about 5 points on them (typically a 1, 2, 3). (Source)

New Talent trees overview
They look superficially like vanilla talent trees, but they are far more interesting.

Almost without exception, the talents we cut were the ones everyone took or the ones nobody took. There will still be very attractive talents that probably everyone takes, but there are also definitely choices where you can only take A or B and want both. Typically you might see a useful (but not necessarily dps-enhancing) ability in your own tree, but also a really attractive one in another tree.

This is a good thing. It won't surprise me to see a knee jerk reaction from some players that we're removing their favorite talents and "dumbing down the trees." However, I'd challenge them that there can't be that many players out there that play Arcane because of Mind Mastery or Arms warrior because of Strength of Arms. Yet, if you skip either of those talents, you're just making your character less effective.

A Cataclysm goal is to remove lame or boring talents. Yet we don't want to replace all of those with procs or game-changers. Really the only solution is to have smaller trees where nearly every remaining talent is a big deal. (Source)

Hybrid builds and active talents
You typically won't get active abilities from a second tree. The most you can get in a second tree is 10 points, and usually the active abilities are deeper than this. We think it makes the distinction between say a Frost and Unholy DK more pronounced when all of their talented active abilities are different rather than being able to cherry pick the best from each tree. It does end up killing any chance for a build that goes halfway down two trees, but usually we would consider such builds failures because it meant the bottom of "your" tree wasn't good enough. These were most popular in PvP when players felt compelled to get "must have" PvP survival talents in multiple trees, and those are the kind of talents we want dead anyway.

With these changes though, the talent trees are going to be even more rebuilt than we were already planning with Cataclysm. Talents are moving all over the trees and every tree has new talents as well. We'll give you a chance to see the trees soon (tm). (Source)

Current talents are too complicated
The new model theoretically buys us several more expansions of not having to mess with the overarching talent tree design. In a broader sense though, one of the challenges of working on World of Warcraft is adding new content without making the game totally inaccessible to new players.

I have used this example several times, but we have one very senior designer at Blizzard who isn't working on WoW but obviously knows the game very well and has been very active in PvP and raiding at various points in time. He took a short break from the game (I suspect to play Modern Warfare 2) and when he came back, we had messed around with his class's talent trees and reset his talent points, so he felt like he couldn't jump back into the game again without spending 45 minutes researching what the community thought a good build would be. We're hoping with simpler (but still deep!) talent trees, players like him will feel more comfortable picking their own talents. He might eventually go poke around in theorycrafting forums to min / max his build, but he won't have the moment of being completely overwhelmed when looking at a blank talent tree. (Source)

In previous expansions, more choices were given to the players in terms of how they built their characters. Players were freely given the choice to spend points however they want.
[...] While that is true, they were also given ample opportunities to make mistakes, what we call "traps." A forum-savy player may know which are the dumb talents nobody takes or which are the mandatory ones that might at first glance seem too bland to take. But why have "choices" that are just there for new players or people who just want to swim against the stream just to be different? We'd rather have actual legitimate choices, which we feel like we can offer by having a stable of fewer good talents.

To use one of the infamous GC analogies, the best restaurants are not necessarily those with a lot of entrees on the menu. The best restaurants probably have very few choices, but you know that anything you order will be great. They don't bother cooking it if they know it will suck. That's a real choice as opposed to the diner with fish on the menu that everyone, ever the waitress, whispers under their breath that you should never, ever order. (Source)

Dungeon Finder and new talent system
We expect a lot of players to use Dungeon Finder while leveling up. The feature works great for that, and we're spending some effort to update the older dungeons to not be so overspawned and in some cases to even fit into the zone quest content better.

Likewise, we're making an effort to let tank and healing specs be more effective when soloing. DPS specs will still probably be more efficient leveling, but if you just love the Resto shaman tree, you should be able to quest and run some dungeons without even having a dual-spec. It won't be spectacular, but it will be a huge improvement from today.

Tanks and healers will get basic abilities before level 15 (when Dungeon Finder is available) to do their jobs, but it's also true that the lower level content is more forgiving of your talent spec. (Source)

Vengeance
You get it at level 10 for choosing a tanking tree. It already scaled with your health and incoming damage, so there isn't really a need for it to scale with talent points spent (especially since nearly 100% of tanks spend the most points in a tanking tree). (Source)

Death Knight (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator)
When do DK get to pick a specialization?
When they get their first talent point for completing a quest. (Source)

Deleted talents
Looking at Unholy, talents like Impurity, Desolation, Wandering Plague, Crypt Fever (but not Ebon Plaguebringer) and Rage of Rivendare (sad about the lore hit there) are gone. (Source)

Druid (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator / Cataclysm Talent Calculator)
Feral builds with the new system
Feral is a challenge. We still want to have a cat-centric, bear-centric or hybrid build. It has always been one of the more challenging trees to work on. (Source)

Omen of Clarity
Likewise, we're not sure what we'll do with Omen yet. The obvious choices are leave it Resto only, put it high enough for everyone to subspec or make it a trained ability. (Source)

Paladin (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator)
Divine Storm @LVL10 for Retribution
Divine Storm is a big deal because Retribution paladins get it at level 10. You'll get a new bottom o' the tree talent. (Source)

Priest (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator / Cataclysm Talent Calculator)
Mind Flay and Shadowform @LVL1x for Shadow
We really wanted to do this, but the more we thought about it, what does a level 10 Shadowform do? Spam Shadow Word: Pain? We'll probably give Shadow priests Mind Flay at level 10 and let them get Shadowform shortly after that. (Source)

Holy signature ability
We think healers will expect to get an actual heal (or some kind of defensive ability) as their signature spell, but we also want something that's actually useful at level 10. Lightwell, Circle of Healing and even Spirit of Redemption are very signature Holy abilities, but none are very useful when soloing gnolls in Elwynn. (Source)

Rogue (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator / Cataclysm Talent Calculator)
Preparation
It's a design flaw that rogues and locks are so dependent on Prep and Soul Link respectively. Those talents are currently holding the classes back. Now we can't balance around the assumption that you have those talents so your classes need to function without them. Maybe it means lowering base cooldowns.... (Source)

Shadowstep
Naturally, the 31-point Shadow Dance is totally inaccessible to Rogues speccing other trees. But what about Shadowstep? Is that a tree-specific, unpointed talent that is totally inaccessible to all other specs?
Inaccessible. Shadowstep is essentially no longer a talent. There is nowhere to buy it. You don't get any passive bonuses for picking your second tree. Essentially you choose at level 10 whether to be an Assassination, Combat or Subtlety rogue, and while you can change your mind later, that determines what special ability and what passives you get. (Source)

Shaman (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator / Cataclysm Talent Calculator)
Dual Wield for Enhancement
So now my cagey comments about how Enhancement gets dual-wield right away and Elemental never gets it make more sense. (Source)

Warlock (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator)
Soul Link
It's a design flaw that rogues and locks are so dependent on Prep and Soul Link respectively. Those talents are currently holding the classes back. Now we can't balance around the assumption that you have those talents so your classes need to function without them. Maybe it means lowering base cooldowns.... (Source)

Probably no early Felguard for Demonology
It probably won't be Felguard. It's a little odd to spring that on a warlock that doesn't even have a Voidwalker yet. (Source)

Cool talents aren't going away
Warlocks are hard.

With a mage, you can keep Frost from throwing a lot of Fireballs just by making Frost do Frost damage. The warlocks don't have schools like that, and they have some shared spells, so it's tricky to get them to use the spells we want them to use sometimes. None of the cool talents, the ones that change up what you're doing, such as Molten Core or Backdraft, are going away. (Source)

Warrior (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator)
Mortal Strike
It depends. Improved Mortal Strike for example is gone and that's just the way Mortal Strike hits now (we added the damage and cooldown into MS). (Source)

Shield Slam @LVL10 for Protection
Protection warriors get Shield Slam (and Arms and Fury lose it). Devastate is still an attractive talent deep in the tree, but it doesn't say "Prot warrior" the way Shield Slam does. (Source)

Toughness stays, Vitality is a passive bonus
Protection has one passive talent, which is Toughness. They get Vitality as a passive for choosing Protection at level 10. The other talents are a mix of threat and defensive abilities, but none are as passive as Deflection. There are (hopefully) attractive talents in the first two tiers of Arms and Fury. The other tank trees will be similar but not identical (Feral as always will be the least similar). (Source)

Specialization Bonus - Anger Management and 2H Weapon Spec for Arms
The Arms one for the moment is Two-Handed Weapon Spec (+10% damage with two-Handed weapons) and Anger Management (free rage). (Source)

Arms - Mastery bonus in Cataclysm
Mastery still exists, but the design is a little cleaner.

Before:
Arms got some passive damage per talent point.
Arms got some passive armor pen per talent point.
Arms got a chance to proc a swing per talent point, which is enhanced by mastery rating on gear.

Now:
Arms gets whatever it needs as passives at level 10.
Arms gets a chance to proc a swing at level 78(ish), which is enhanced by mastery rating on gear.

Mastery now means "proc a swing" for Arms and that's all it means, which is easier to understand. (Source)
This article was originally published in forum thread: Cataclysm Class & Mastery Systems Update started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 699 Comments
  1. elrenno's Avatar
    I'm not sure I like this at all. When I see that I have to pick a specialization at level 10, and I'm stuck with it until 70, that just means I'm pigeon holed into a static spec.

    What I would rather see is the ability to custom tailor a spec with abilities that I want. Sure, get rid of the useless abilities and junk no one uses. But let me be the type of warrior I want to be. Let me pick and choose abilities from different trees. Let me hybridize a cross between being a protection and a fury warrior (if I so choose).

    I don't see this at all as allowing people to make talent choices "that feel more flavorful and fun, yet more meaningful at the same time." If each tree is just 31 points, that means you have to take everything in a tree. No picking and choosing. I really think that's what is needed. Like this, as a fury warrior, I'll be just like every other fury warrior.
  1. mooninja's Avatar
    I think this makes Cata even more exciting. The old tree system was very dated, and I know as a Altoholic it will make rerolling a new class much more attractive, as well as aiding in teaching the new class players how to play their roles better with much more exposure to the core abilities of the builds.
  1. Dee-Jay Delicious's Avatar
    I was always sceptical of how Blizzard would remove all the "booring" talents in Catacylsm. A trimming of the trees is a logical consequence.

    I'm not a fan of the restriction to spending talent-points in 1 tree and I'm not sure why it's needed.
  1. Kwickslash's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by fapjackmasta View Post
    i havent even experienced cata beta or anything and i can already tell that im going to have liked wrath better (which is sad)
    blizz needs to try and stop changing things that worked perfectly fine and work more on the things that are actually broken in this game

    liked wrath better (which is sad)
    worked perfectly fine
    You typical WoW player logic.

    Cry about the changes announced for the next expansion while blindly ignoring the problems with the current one.
  1. Fcdwn777's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by chippydip View Post
    This is really the only way they can give out spec-defining abilities from the start. Without this restriction, what's to keep someone from (for example) saying they are an enhancement shaman to get dual wield and then putting all their points into elemental or resto? This new system is kinda like a loan: "we'll give you top-tier abilities from the start, but only if you promise to actually spend enough points eventually to qualify for those abilities".

    I agree that its too bad we don't have more freedom under the new system, but I think getting those key abilities from the start without having to worry about balance concerns where other specs could get stuff they shouldn't will out-weigh any negatives of these restrictions.

    Overall, I think this should be a really cool change and can't wait to see the new trees! :-)
    ^This totally. I can't wait to level a new character in Cata with meaningful talents right away and a revamped Azeroth to level through!
  1. dotSeed's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiru View Post
    It's hilarious that people think this will somehow stop cookie cutter specs. Some talents will always be better than others, there's no way around it.
    The point is, with this new system you will be COMPETITIVE without having to give up fun talents. No-one is going to truly care if you sacrifice marginal max DPS in order to have fun talents.*

    * - Except min/max progression guilds, but their fun is defeating content and not 'fun' rotations or abilities.

    Edit: I find it very ironic people pine for the days of Vanilla before "casualization" and then an announcement of returning back to the same depth for trees won't be "enough choice".
  1. sentry0's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Dch48 View Post
    Does this mean that there will be no tanks or healers until level 70? Who is going to level a Warrior as Prot? I see big problems coming because of this change.
    I healed my (arms warrior, 2 handed tanking) wife through RFC and Deadmines last night as a spriest.

    Whilst I realize those are super easy instances to tank and heal through Blizz has stated that they wanted to allow a warrior to tank a non heroic instance simply by slapping on a sword and board and switching into defensive stance.

    People who specialize in a tank or healing spec will simply be better at their chosen job. With the new additions of higher end/defining skills they will be even more effective.
  1. Arandmoor's Avatar
    Holy shit! BOMBS AWAY!

    And here I was thinking the raid changes were going to be the biggest changes this expansion... Wow...

    It's a whole new ballgame now, and the QQ is going to be epic.

    OTOH, ...I have no idea how this change is going to pan out. There's aren't many ways they could make a more drastic change.
  1. Dawn Falcon's Avatar
    Who cares, more about Blizzard's failbomb over privacy plz
  1. Marcin's Avatar
    Amazing change. I can't wait for Cata.
  1. Cyrane's Avatar
    The only reaction I can come up with after reading this consists of the following two words: absolutely ridicilous.
  1. Tokru's Avatar
    blizzard, don't try to distract us from the real-id disaster.
  1. Worgoblin's Avatar
    Whoa! Did not see this coming. I like it though.
  1. Fcdwn777's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Crowe View Post
    I was always sceptical of how Blizzard would remove all the "booring" talents in Catacylsm. A trimming of the trees is a logical consequence.

    I'm not a fan of the restriction to spending talent-points in 1 tree and I'm not sure why it's needed.
    As has been stated before, the reason you are locked into a talent tree is because they are offering you deep tier abilities at level 10 that usually take till level 40 or beyond. Since they are doing this, it only makes sense that you need to spend your talents in the same tree as the abilities you are given, because if not you can have a Ele shaman with deep tier enhance abilities if you are not restricted to a certain tree. I for one think this is a fine trade off to make leveling interesting again in the lower levels.
  1. Mathaios's Avatar
    HATERS WILL HATE.

    I love the idea <3
  1. elrenno's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Pojodan View Post
    I like this for the following reason:

    In a given class' talent trees currently there are 3-5 talents that actually alter the way the class is played. I'm a Combat Rogue, so I'll use that as an example.

    Adrenaline Rush, Blade Fury, Killing Spree, non-dagger, fast off-hand/slow main-hand. Those are what define combat rogue.

    31 points means 7 tiers, if they keep with the 5-points-per-tier model.

    With 5 talents that define the class, that leaves only 2 tiers with filler talents, making each step up the talent tree all the more thrilling.

    Also, it opens up the realm for a lot wider talent trees for more 'filler', but lots of possibilities.


    I can see there being three different groups of 'filler' talents that populate every tier: Damage Mitigation, Damage Evasion, Utility

    Say I'm in a guild with 3 other combat rogues. At present, only one of us is bringing anything unique to the raid, the rest are just plain DPS. I perform average in dealing with boss encounter challenges, one other rogue dies constantly, and the other is flawless.

    I would thusly spec myself for Damage Evasion, talents that make me move faster or let me escape one insta-death per boss fight, or talents of that nature for my occational slip-ups. The second rogue would spec in Damage Mitigation, talents that reduce AoE damage, lessen big damage hits so they aren't insta-death, and slow DoT effects, letting the healers keep them alive a lot more easily despite their poor performance. The last rogue would spec utility as, since they can be trusted to move to the right spot and do the right things, they can be the one that improves the raid with extra physical damage debuffs, extra threat redirection, extended smoke cloud duration, things of that nature.

    Of course there will be min/maxing by selecting all the utility talents, but it opens up extra leway for less skillful players to survive better, as well as giving options for guilds struggling with boss fights to re-spec into survival-oriented talents across the board so that learning a difficult fight is less stressful.

    Here's hoping it works that way.
    I don't see it that way. What I read is that each tree will be 31 points. You will have to put a full 31 points into a tree (until level 70) before you can put points into another tree. What this tells me is that every combat rogue will be exactly the same. No customization. No variety. I don't see how this is an improvement at all. Makes it kinda boring if you ask me.
  1. Crash's Avatar
    I, for one, am already liking this new system.
    As an Arms warrior, I had to wait a long time to get Mortal Strike, and then wait some more to have it improved, and then wait some more to have it glyphed, and then wait some more to have the stuff that goes with it, and then...y'know what I mean.

    This new system grants any warrior who choses to specialize in Arms, the possibility to actually USE this spec-defining ability quite early in their levelling. And this goes for all classes and specs.

    Putting this out of the tree will give us some choices and uniqueness.
    Of course there will still be some mandatory options, but with only 41 points to spend, shortened trees, no more "5 points to get the max awesomeness" abilities (I'm hoping 3 for MAX), and possibly new talents to choose from in each tree, I think we finally have what everyone has been claiming for for ages : trees will be our own choices !! Not a random copy-paste from a random website that claims itself for l33ts. Ours.
  1. elrenno's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Jin84 View Post
    So we're basically doing 31/21/0 ish specs? Or are they reducing the talent points we get per level?
    From what I read, at level 85, you would have 41 talent points to spend. So it would be more like 31/10/0.
  1. Stormkiller's Avatar
    realID: /cast FEIGN Death

    New Talent System: /Target WoW Players /cast Misdirect

    Blizz Employees: /cast stealth

    But, to be honest, I would like to see what theyre gonna actually do with it all.
    BUT the timing stinks as bad as a stinky bad timing thing at a stinky bad timing convention...
  1. Arathull's Avatar
    interesting but i dont like how your locked into one talent tree untill you hit that 31 points

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