MMO-Champion - Talent UI, Pets' Move To, Blue posts
Update - New American and European Battle.net sites have been updated with a new beta version. Nothing really new on the WoW side but if you're interested in changes from the SC2 retail I guess you can always check SC2Mapster.com


Talent Frame - Updated Interface
The Talent Frame was updated in the latest patch to reflect the recent changes to the talent trees. Blizzard released a couple of screenshots.


On a sidenote, it seems that a lot of people used the old talent calculator yesterday. It was updated automatically but the only reliable Cataclysm calculator you should use is http://wowtal.com. The old one doesn't have prereqs and make most of your builds useless. (The old talent calc only stays around for 3.3.5 Live builds)


Pet Classes - "Move To" Command
A new action has been added to the Pet bar in the latest beta build. You can now order your pet to Move to a targeted location and stay there.



Developer Chat on Twitter -- 7.16.10
Originally Posted by Zarhym (Blue Tracker)
We will be holding our next developer chat on Twitter on Friday, July 16, at 5:00 p.m. PDT with World of Warcraft's systems design team. This chat session will focus on the recently-announced talent specialization and Mastery system changes coming in Cataclysm: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...26290449&sid=1

We'll be taking questions live through Twitter, so be sure to sign up for a Twitter account at https://twitter.com/signup and follow @Warcraft to participate.

To submit a question for the developer chat, please tweet using the #BlizzChat hashtag between 5:00 p.m. and 6:00 p.m. PDT on July 16. Due to Twitter's character limitations, all answers will be posted in a dedicated thread on the World of Warcraft forums.

Blue posts
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
A typical day @ Blizzard
Most of the day is spent in communication of some sort. We'll have formal meetings where we review a current talent tree. We have just tons and tons of discussions of "Hey, guys, I had an idea," or "Hey, I can't solve this problem. Any thoughts?" We do work quite closely with the programmers implementing things like the new talent UI or the new scaling spell model. We also work closely with the artists coming up with new spell visuals. Our QA department is constantly trying to sort through what the design of the moment is, and they do a great job of triaging the totally broken things from the "fix this before we ship" things. The community team brings us concerns that they have seen on the forums or from their interactions with players. This is particularly true for the non-English forums, because my non-English for one is sadly lacking. History geek that I am, I studied Ancient Greek in college, which serves me about as well in day to day life as you probably imagine.

GC's got friends in every town and village from here to the Sudan. He speaks a dozen languages, knows every local custom. He'll blend in -- disappear -- you'll never see him again. With any luck... he's got the Grail already.

GC: Does anyone here speak English? Or even Ancient Greek?


There aren't many typical days. Sometimes we will spend literally hours discussing one problem. The last few days it has been the paladin rotations. We'll throw things on white boards, send out some ideas to guys not actually in the office, try out some stuff in game to see how it feels, and get feedback from anyone who has recently run one of the new dungeons or tried a new BG. We interact a lot with the community outside of the building, visibly on forums like this one, but through email, IRC and even in game. There are a lot of excellent PvP and PvE players with whom I regularly correspond, and I want to call out any of you reading this and thank you publically.

Overall the environment is very collaborative. The team as a whole (by which I mean the artists, programmers, producers and everyone else) don't get enough credit for the design decisions that go into the game. In many cases, my guys are just the implementers, but the ideas and feedback come from everyone working on WoW. (Source)

Beta Testing
Deepholm - Alliance Gunship crash
If you are experiencing client crashes in the area near the Alliance Gunship, temporarily turn your graphic settings to low and set your view distance to the minimum setting. After you’ve completed the quests at the gunship, feel free to restore your settings.

The fix for this issue has already been implemented in the next build. (Source)

Deepholm - Temple of Earth
The Temple of Earth should be a sanctuary, if that's what you're talking about. Everything else is fair game for PVP. This area should be flagged correctly in the next build. (Source)

Player vs. Player
Anti-Crowd Control Talents
We are getting rid of a lot of the "being CC'd doesn't really counter you" talents, because we think they have led to classes not having weaknesses. The fact that instant casts are so important in PvP we think is a direct result from mobility being so important which is a direct result of nobody being controlled. We just need to chill all of that stuff out. If CCs are too potent, we want to nerf the CCs, not give everyone "CCs are impotent" talents. (Source)

Classes
This is a first pass
While this is a first pass on all of the talent trees, death knight, druid, paladin, warlock, Arcane mage, and Assassination rogue trees are not as far along as other specializations. (Source)

Damage vs. Utility Talents
Those are actually the decisions we're looking for. Trying to decide between dps and utility isn't a decision (for PvE anyway) and choosing damage vs. damage is a decision most players make by going to third party sites. We want you to be able to get all of the damage talents you reasonably can, and be making decisions over the utility talents. (Source)

Damage / PvP Talents loss
Yes. Every class lost "PvP isn't so hard on me" talents and every class lost passive damage. (Source)

Stats / Damage Loss
In any case, many of the trees lost passive stat bonuses like this. If you want Strength, gear for it. The damage of every class will be adjusted according to the new talent trees. (Source)

Passive talents in early tiers
I did say that the first two tiers were liable to contain passive talents. This is for three reasons. First, these are available at very low level where you have few abilities to make a real rotation. Second, they need to be pretty understandable to new players (including experienced players trying a new class for the first time). Third, they need to be attractive to subspecs at high level.

There are placeholder talents in various places in the trees though, and we'll keep iterating on all of them throughout beta. This is a pretty big change to every class. (Source)

Modifying spell coefficients
We're probably not going to have any talents that modify coefficients. Those are really mathy talents and super-confusing for non hardcore players. It also means the talents aren't useful until you have end-game levels of stats on your gear. We'll just increase the damage or healing total, which affects the flat points as well as the coefficients. (Source)

Death Knight (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
No posts today.

Druid (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
Moonkin Form missing from the Talent Tree
We are experimenting between Moonkin Form and Starsurge being the level 10 bonus (the other will be the first active ability in the talent tree). (Source)

Hunter (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
Cobra Shot
Marks and Survival generally won't use Cobra Shot in PvE -- mobs don't change their armor. BM will use Cobra Shot in PvP and PvE. (Source)

Mage (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
Arcane
Arcane has two passive talents early right now, Torment the Weak and Netherwind Presence. We would like to replace one of them. We do want the early talents to be relatively simple, useful at low level and attractive for subspec though. (Source)

Paladin (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
Warning: Paladin Skills/Talents in current beta build
These are old talents. This is not the paladin revamp that we said was coming. Sorry, you'll just have to wait a little bit longer. (Source)

Removal of Judgement of Wisdom
This is true. JoW was really only a big deal for hunters, shaman and paladins themselves, and those are all solvable in other ways. (Source)

Divine Illumination
There is no Divine Illumination. Divine Favor is 100% chance to crit on your next heal with a 1 min cooldown. [...] It is still called Divine Favor, still grants a 100% crit chance to the direct heals and Holy Shock (to tie into all the "on crit" mechanics in the tree) and has a 1 min cooldown. (Source)

Paladin Questions (Source)
1. Are Sanctified Ret, Swift Ret, Sanctuary, and Imp Dev Aura going to remain 3-pt talents? They feel too expensive this way. Maybe they can be rolled into individual talents, or changed to cost 2-pts each.
One of Sanctified and Swift is 2 points and the other is 1 point. I can't remember which without looking. Imp Dev Aura is dead.

2. The whole reactive Judgement thing feels weird to me. If a Ret is taking a lot of damage in PvP, he no longer has to worry about mana? I'm all for new mechanics and making E4E a strong talent, but I'm not sure I like this. On the same note, how about Purifying Power -- if a Holy Paladin dispels his teammate, will it break CC on the enemy who applied the debuff?
Reactive Judgements is also dead.

I'm going to regret saying this, but the paladin trees are the most changed in the game. There are only a few of the current beta talents that survived the, um, cleansing.

Holy Shield
We are going to turn both Holy Shield and Shield Block into short cooldowns. A short cooldown is an ability that you don't save for an absolute emergency (like Shield Wall) but we also don't want it to be on such a short cooldown that it feels maintenance-y. It's a tricky number to get right, but something in the 30 sec to 1 min zone feels about right. Then you might use Holy Shield one GCD instead of SoR or you can choose to save it until the next big boss attack. (Source)

Pushback Resistance
Holy paladins get pushback resistance too. (Source)

Paladin Rotations
If we do one thing for class design in Cataclysm, it will be changing the paladin (all 3 specs) rotation up a bit! (Source)

Holy Shock
Holy Shock is Holy only again. We wanted an ability that did healing and damage for Holy, and Holy Shock fit that bill.

We have plenty of other ideas to get more interest into the Prot and Ret rotations. (Source)

Retribution
In the Ret case, we started with a basic question: what is it they should be managing? There are a lot of things they *could* be managing. Today it's cooldowns. It could be mana or procs or a lot of things. There was one Ret talent in particular we really liked, and we started building a rotation around it. Then we decided the mechanic was good enough to flesh out for Holy and Prot too.

We're not ready to share the design just yet, and like all changes of this sort, it will be controversial. Some players crave a more interactive rotation. Some like their paladins the way they are. Some are only attracted to the class because it can be overpowered and they like to feel like a superhero. (Source)

Priest (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
Lightwell
In the current beta build (or possibly the next one), clicking Lightwell no longer switches your target to it. That was one of the changes we've been waiting for to reevaluate the talent. (Enemies can still target it normally.) (Source)

Desperate Prayer
Desperate Prayer is a pretty different ability. They really only have the name in common. In Cataclysm, Desperate Prayer has a 45 sec cooldown (down from 2 min). The lower cooldown will let you use it often as leveling.

Holy also has a talent that when you use Desperate Prayer (to heal yourself), it also heals the most injured ally (a portion of the healing done to you), turning it into an instant, smart Binding Heal. (Source)

Shadow Priest - Hit from Spirit
No, we said that hybrids who share gear will be able to convert Spirit to hit. We originally were only going to do it for druids and shaman, but priests argued that it should apply to them too (even though they do have they do have access to actual hit gear). (Source)

Rogue (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
No posts today.

Shaman (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
No posts today.

Warlock (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
No posts today.

Warrior (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
Damage loss / 2H Weapon Specialization
[...] You didn't lose any damage. Talents that grant nothing but armor pen or Strength are not the kind of talents we want to offer any more, at least below the first couple of tiers. You won't be doing any less damage when you log in for Cataclysm than you do today.

Imagine the Two-Handed Weapon Specialization from Arms is +28% to damage with two-handed weapons or whatever it needs to be to make up for losing talents. (Source)

Stats loss
Most trees are losing free stats such as Strength, hit and expertise. If you want it, you'll have to gear it. The dual-wield trees will keep some free hit. (Source)

Tactical Mastery
Tactical Mastery is now baked into Stance Mastery (so you retain 25 rage when swapping).(Source)

Piercing Howl
Well, we'd like for Fury to be usable in PvP and there is a certain attraction to Arms having Juggernaut and Bladestorm, but Fury having Piercing Howl. As it is now, it's easy to make a hybrid build that scoops up the best of both talent trees. Rather than having Fury play differently than Arms, you just have Arms with the best of Fury.

That aside, we're not sure yet how we're going to handle Piercing Howl. One option is to put it in the second tier, the same way we did with Lichborne for DKs. My fear is that opening that door wider leads to a future full of "what is wrong with my class" manifestos from other classes that start off with bullet number one as"Lack of a 6 point talent." Other options include making it a class-wide ability. (Source)

Furious Attacks and Piercing Howl are both PVP exclusive abilities. Furious attacks I'll wait to see if the proc rate got buffed significantly, which may help fury pvp, but as of now it looks unchanged. Piercing Howl is useless to a raider baring a few specific fights.
Furious Attacks I grant you has very limited use in PvE. I disagree about Piercing Howl though. Once upon a time, groups had to control mobs instead of just AE'ing them all down. Someone who wants a build solely focused on killing single-target raid bosses (which to be fair, we don't have many of these days) might skip over Piercing Howl, but we are trying to structure the trees such that you don't have an option to get dps elsewhere even if you do. (Source)

Shield Block
We are going to turn both Holy Shield and Shield Block into short cooldowns. A short cooldown is an ability that you don't save for an absolute emergency (like Shield Wall) but we also don't want it to be on such a short cooldown that it feels maintenance-y. It's a tricky number to get right, but something in the 30 sec to 1 min zone feels about right. Then you might use Holy Shield one GCD instead of SoR or you can choose to save it until the next big boss attack. (Source)

AE Rotation
I agree. We tried making warrior AE "rotations" just one button, but we didn't like it. We'll change the other classes instead. (Source)

Heroic Leap - NYI
Heroic Leap isn't implemented yet. The level cap isn't at 85. (Source)

Heroic Strike
Heroic Strike is off of the GCD but with a short cooldown so it isn't in danger of competing with Execute (which hits considerably harder now). (Source)

Disarming Glare
Disarming Glare isn't likely to make it. (Source)

Impending Victory
As promised, we have cut Impending Victory and given Fury a new attack that they can used only when Enraged (but does not consume the Enrage). (Source)

Enrage
Enrage procs on all damage (including raid AE damage). We also want Fury to be a viable PvP spec in any case. (Source)

Unbridled Wrath/Rage in LK
You're operating under the "rage doesn't matter" mindset of Lich King. In Cataclysm, the ability to get rage from talents is going to be pretty attractive.

The issue isn't that it gives rage, but that it gives so little of it.
That's a tuning issue, not a fundamental flaw with the design of the talent. If you find yourself low on rage, you can get this talent in the same way a mage might get a talent to make nukes cheaper. If you find you don't need the rage -- perhaps you have Booming Voice or get it from Charge or something -- then you can take another talent instead. (Source)
This article was originally published in forum thread: Talent UI, Pets' Move To, Blue posts started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 110 Comments
  1. insertuseralias's Avatar
    w00t for the Pet Move! That should be fun (and useful). I am glad to see that they announced the lock trees aren't finish. I was pretty annoyed with the destro tree since I had to dump points in 2 of 3 talents that did nothing for me to progress further. I don't need searing pain as a pve-er, I definitely don't need Imp Shadowbolt for destro, and I can't think of a single destro lock that uses soulfire in pve (I also can't think of many that use it often enough in pvp to make it a worthwhile cast). Now reading the tooltip it seems once an enemy is below 80% the points I spent there are wasted anyways. If they are trying to make it so we can add another spell to our rotation I find this to be a flaw that they chose soulfire as the spell, especially since we are already getting new spells that will accomplish this. You would either have to burn a soulshard to get it to be an instant cast which would in turn generate a shit ton of threat (and we all know locks have more than enough threat gen as is), or we would have to sacrifice starting dps for the long castime of soulfire (and I doubt the haste would make up for that... plus I have the feeling we would have to cast it a few times before a boss falls below 80%). I don't know, I may not be thinking about those correctly but I hope those talents are up for changing when they DO revamp the lock trees.
  1. Scotia's Avatar
    I go to the volcanic island of Lanzarote for 2 weeks and now im lost... :3
  1. shekspeare's Avatar
    get back all our talent trees!!!
  1. myhv's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by TwistedCross View Post
    If you are having mana trou ...*******..... this thing called Druids. They are a really cool class who will make your raids better... and your Renew worthless.
    Well for starters, there is a line, between good healer and great (geek) healer. It's rather faint and almost impossible to tell where one ends and other starts, but I don't want to cross it by any means. I don't want healing becoming for me like DPS, where e-peen reigns supreme. Heal cancelling is around that lines. I prefer to stick to the common sense of "I heal if I need to and I don't cast anything if I don't".

    Also, reading your posts, I can't help to wonder if you ever were a priest at all... Why? Firstly, someone who does not want BoS is either not a priest or a very, very sad person... No offence here. As a little test, tell me, what things are you waiting the most in upcoming expansion, when it comes to priests?

    Regarding disc, I meant that you went for inspiration and imp PWS instead of mental agility. No, really, most of the time we will be casting CoH and POM, with some renews and flash heals (I guess now it will be simply heals) in between. Also, a simple rule I learned when I just started raiding as holy: DON'T touch PWS at all, unless it's a difference between life and death. Holy has all the tools to save ppl without using shields. Not, I'm not saying don't use it at all, but leave mass shields to disc priests.

    Oh, and I don't know why you give a druid example... I don\t know how YOU use renew, but usually it is used as a moderate HoT on targets that will not be taking any more dmg for some time or will be taking constant dmg. For example ppl who had DnD casted on them by Deathwisper will just move out of it in a second, so no need to waste time casting anything big on them. Or Festergut's raid dmg.
  1. baruch's Avatar
    It seems sometimes that Blizzard could implement a whole bunch of changes and improvements to the game (such as pet move), but thinks it's better to delay them so that they can come up with new content, new features... Or I'm just being paranoid

    About revamped talent trees, well at first I was surprised and disappointed, but when you consider current talent trees, you clearly see that the number of points you can spend and talents you can choose do not equate to more possibilities, more liberty and more customization. Once you hit 80 you know that except for 1 to 3 talents, the rest are mandatory in order to be optimal in PvP or PvE. As a rogue, I used to always read, check and compare my talents, but now I just pick the cookie cutter build and don't look at my talents anymore, both because I know them by heart, and because I know this is the optimal spec and that there is little to no point in trying to modify it.

    Only thing with 31 talent trees is that it restricts our possibilities in that we cannot access nice talents located in secondary trees (for a mut rogue it would hurt me to have vanish / blind / clos back to their normal CD, cost, range etc. :'( ).
  1. dek's Avatar
    **wrong thread
  1. TobiasX's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by myhv View Post
    Also, reading your posts, I can't help to wonder if you ever were a priest at all... Why? Firstly, someone who does not want BoS is either not a priest or a very, very sad person...
    If by BoS you mean Body and Soul I think I should let you in on something... it's a gimmick talent and should only be taken if you have literally no other worthwhile place to put those points (e.g. no talent spent anywhere will make your heals more effective) . The only use I'm aware this talent has ever had is on Anub HM. It's also not a good idea to annoy your discipline priest by putting shields on people. If there isn't a discipline priest around then do what you like but if I was in a raid and saw that specced in your talent tree I'd be very, very worried.

    The new version of the talent, that causes you to dispel poisons, may be mandatory based purely on that.
  1. myhv's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by TobiasX View Post
    If by BoS you mean Body and Soul I think I should let you in on something... it's a gimmick talent and should only be taken if you have literally no other worthwhile place to put those points (e.g. no talent spent anywhere will make your heals more effective) . The only use I'm aware this talent has ever had is on Anub HM. It's also not a good idea to annoy your discipline priest by putting shields on people. If there isn't a discipline priest around then do what you like but if I was in a raid and saw that specced in your talent tree I'd be very, very worried.

    The new version of the talent, that causes you to dispel poisons, may be mandatory based purely on that.
    Oh my, more and more ppl who can't read... Let me read that for you than.

    Quote Originally Posted by myhv View Post
    someone who does not want BoS is either not a priest or a very, very sad person
    Quote Originally Posted by myhv View Post
    does not want BoS
    Quote Originally Posted by myhv View Post
    want
    And in case you still don't get it, the problem I've stated before is that BoS is a freaken awesome talent, but we can not afford to spec in to it with current talent trees.
  1. matheryn's Avatar
    well one this is for sure there still needs to be ALOT of changes to the talants as reducing the size of the trees is going to make everyone choose the same talants in the end making everyone go from being unique to just a number as this game was ment to make people feel unique with different looks ect now making everyone choose the same talants in smaller trees is going to make joe blo look the same as tom jones
    I play a destro lock and the new changes have litterally destroyed my spec that i have now which is mainly focus'd on burst fire damage. the rotation is going to be destroyed not to mention the talants are going to halve my damage and force me to waste talant points in areas that i dont feel are appropriate to my play style and yes i know this is beta and its still subject to change so i hope to crist it will change for the better because there is a huge uproar atm with the current selection from the masses and in the end if this is what there going to bring out this game will follow the same path as ultima online aka bad expansion = loss of playerbase
    i know alot of people will nodoubt flame this post saying if i dont like it then leave or that im a winging kid or a nub or noob or something else more vulgar but to be honest flaming me will do nothing as this post will still be read by others
    all im trying to say is if you anger the masses then its like a domino's effect and it has already been proven from mmos in the past once 1 leave 2 leave then 3 the 300 then 500 then 600 ect because if another game looks more apealing to what people want there is usually a massive shift in playerbase to that new game especially if its predecessor produces an expansion that a high volume of the general consumers dont like.
    but thats my 2 cents - definately not going to be everyones cup of tea but that doesnt mean you have to accept it
  1. Gaelic_Kyla's Avatar
    oh good.. fiiinally.. I always thought it would be great to have an option to make a pet stay in a certain place.. so yay ^_^

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