Guild UI, Reforging, Raid Buffs/Debuffs

Originally Posted by kiurys

Good thing Blizzard doesnt agree with you.

The reason that hybrids get the hybrid tax IS NOT because they bring a unique buff but because you have the option of, at any time, switching to another role other than dps. Thats why you have the hybrid tax.

Think about it as a luxury tax. You have the option with the same character of fulfilling roles other than dps. Pure dps dont have that option so its only fair they have a higher theoretical dps.

I think its fair. Dont like it? Tough. Blizzard thinks its fair.

The hybrid tax is something Blizzard is open to discuss each expansion. They even did an experiment with feral druids letting them actually compete on dps meters with pure dps and to be honest I didn't see a huge increase of feral druids because of it.

There's also no benefit for having a tank/heal spec past the (off-)healing, (off-)tanking raid spots. If there is no raid in the game that requires more than 3 tanks, any tanking dual spec past the 3rd tank is irrelevant. Same for healers if you'd never need more than 7 healers, why would 10 people with a healing spec be of any use? It's just a relic of vanilla that makes no sense.
The reason people roll pure dps classes should be because they like the class or just don't want to tank/heal, either way hybrids being competitive in dps shouldn't matter.

And lastly there's a second "hybrid tax" in the game. It's in the form of a dual spec you can't use for pvp, 2 (3, sometimes even 4) sets of gear you need to spend dkp/emblems on and the cost of enchanting all that gear with the best/most expensive stuff.

So now with Reforging the Devs no longer have to think before they create they now can just make whatever crap and leave the thinking and Reforging to you. Nice.

Originally Posted by Panoramixe

The hybrid tax is something Blizzard is open to discuss each expansion. They even did an experiment with feral druids letting them actually compete on dps meters with pure dps and to be honest I didn't see a huge increase of feral druids because of it.

There's also no benefit for having a tank/heal spec past the (off-)healing, (off-)tanking raid spots. If there is no raid in the game that requires more than 3 tanks, any tanking dual spec past the 3rd tank is irrelevant. Same for healers if you'd never need more than 7 healers, why would 10 people with a healing spec be of any use? It's just a relic of vanilla that makes no sense.
The reason people roll pure dps classes should be because they like the class or just don't want to tank/heal, either way hybrids being competitive in dps shouldn't matter.

And lastly there's a second "hybrid tax" in the game. It's in the form of a dual spec you can't use for pvp, 2 (3, sometimes even 4) sets of gear you need to spend dkp/emblems on and the cost of enchanting all that gear with the best/most expensive stuff.

I'm not even sure the hybrid tax is still around today. Every class is capable of competitive damage (competitive, not chart-topping).

And that second hybrid tax you're talking about is a requirement for being able to switch roles. That's like a mage complaining about having to keep his main set in top enchants and gems. You don't have to have separate sets, that's a bonus for the class.

30% Cast Speed Slow -- Warlock, Rogue, Arcane Mage

You forgot Hunters with the new Viper Sting.

Shamans bring ZERO debuffs to a raid?

Hybrid tax is something useless nowadays, everyone can easily reroll if the point is covering more roles, and btw you can just gear up to high level one spec, so why penalize it when there's no advantage for being taken as buffer?

oh god.. so i'm guessing from the buff/debuff that battle shout is now agility/strength that will get overwritten by shaman totem's? or are we getting a new buff that increases agility/strength, and still keeping our attack power battleshout buff? because otherwise just another reason not to bring warriors at all.. especially since we will be on DPS probation by the devs for this expansion.

Are guildies able to access your crafting professions and make whatever they want, or are those screenshots just confusing me?

Originally Posted by kiurys

Good thing Blizzard doesnt agree with you.

The reason that hybrids get the hybrid tax IS NOT because they bring a unique buff but because you have the option of, at any time, switching to another role other than dps. Thats why you have the hybrid tax.

Think about it as a luxury tax. You have the option with the same character of fulfilling roles other than dps. Pure dps dont have that option so its only fair they have a higher theoretical dps.

I think its fair. Dont like it? Tough. Blizzard thinks its fair.

sure.. as a fury warrior i could switch to tank.. wait my off spec is arms for pvping.. wait i didn't gear and gem to tank, i geared to dps.. wait i can't switch in the middle of combat.. so no.. i can't switch roles at any time, and if i did my raid leader would probably be pissed because the only reason why he brought me was because of my dps.

the problem with the "higher theoretical dps" argument is a lot of "pure's" think they should be at the top of dps no matter what gear they have, no matter what skill they have, no matter who the other dps is. you know how many times i've been bitched out by mages/warlocks/hunters/rogues with barely 3k gearscore addon gearscore's in 5-mans and pug raids? complaining that i with a 3/4 BiS 6k gear score should have lower dps than them since i'm not a pure dps class? more times than i could count on all of the hands in china. and it looks like the devs are starting to listen to them quite honestly.

Originally Posted by slimj091

sure.. as a fury warrior i could switch to tank.. wait my off spec is arms for pvping.. wait i didn't gear and gem to tank, i geared to dps.. wait i can't switch in the middle of combat.. so no.. i can't switch roles at any time, and if i did my raid leader would probably be pissed because the only reason why he brought me was because of my dps.

the problem with the "higher theoretical dps" argument is a lot of "pure's" think they should be at the top of dps no matter what gear they have, no matter what skill they have, no matter who the other dps is. you know how many times i've been bitched out by mages/warlocks/hunters/rogues with barely 3k gearscore addon gearscore's in 5-mans and pug raids? complaining that i with a 3/4 BiS 6k gear score should have lower dps than them since i'm not a pure dps class? more times than i could count on all of the hands in china. and it looks like the devs are starting to listen to them quite honestly.

Seems like they're listening to you, actually. With buffs more shared, you don't *have* to bring a shaman or paladin for their awesome buffs. You can bring them for being awesome people, awesome players, or both. Whichever your guild is more inclined to do.

Originally Posted by Butterbumps

Yes, exactly. I heard gear will have nothing but stamina, and you'll have to allocate the other stats yourself. Note: This is 100% true, and not at all an example of a logical fallacy known as reductio ad absurdum!

Seriously though, here is a blue post on the subject: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...77454350&sid=1

but you can't move primary stats. so your stuck with that stamina. on the bright note i believe a dev said that stamina and high health "increase" your dps..... these are the people that make our game. when stamina increases my attack power, crit rating, haste rating, or hell even my hit rating.. then that will be the day that stamina increases my dps. stamina does not increase my dps, it sustains it.. allowing me to dps longer instead of dieing to one of their wonderful "everyone in the raid takes 20,000 damage every 5 seconds" mechanics. and while i'm grateful for having nearly 50k health in ICC to live through sindragosa's crap. i'm not really too pleased about having 10% of all my dps primary, and secondary stats being turned into stamina. so no.. stamina does not increase my dps my beautiful snowflake developers... it's nerfing my dps.

So no more Boomkin crit?

Originally Posted by Hoosiermama

Seems like they're listening to you, actually. With buffs more shared, you don't *have* to bring a shaman or paladin for their awesome buffs. You can bring them for being awesome people, awesome players, or both. Whichever your guild is more inclined to do.

sure... but they are also nerfing hybrids dps with a big stick this expansion. so pure's getting all of the hybrid buffs, plus an across the board nerf to hybrid class dps, equals why bring anyone other than pure's to dps? btw most real guilds do not bring someone because they are an awesome person. they bring them because they can put out 10k+ dps. if they happen to be an awesome person as well.. then that is just a bonus.

that is the reality that we are in.. in game. you don't bring people for their personality, or for their "i think i can i think i can i think i can" attitude. you bring them to get shit done. you bring tanks because they have 80k-90k health, you bring healers because... well they are stupid, and you need to bring them anyways, and you bring dps because they can put out 13k dps.

Originally Posted by Nathiest

So now with Reforging the Devs no longer have to think before they create they now can just make whatever crap and leave the thinking and Reforging to you. Nice.

Yes, exactly. I heard gear will have nothing but stamina, and you'll have to allocate the other stats yourself. Note: This is 100% true, and not at all an example of a logical fallacy known as reductio ad absurdum!

Seriously though, here is a blue post on the subject: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...77454350&sid=1

It's nice to see that a guild with a total of 17 members is already half way through the first level. hopefully smaller guilds won't have a tough time leveling up.

On the Rank Permissions tab I notice there is just a "Manage Bank Tabs" and Gold Withdrawl/Repair. What happened to the ability to lock down ranks from being able to view certain tabs and/or deposit/withdrawl from those tabs? Have those settings been removed or have they been relocated to be a part of the guild bank interface when the guild master has the guild bank open?

---------- Post added 2010-07-28 at 11:13 AM ----------

Originally Posted by dankind64

It's nice to see that a guild with a total of 17 members is already half way through the first level. hopefully smaller guilds won't have a tough time leveling up.

I think Blizzard has stated that only the top 10 contributors in a guild are used for guild perks. So theoretically a guild with 10 active members will be no worse off than a guild with 200 active members. I hope that is in fact the case.

I just can't see them giving Alliance +1% damage (worgen?) and +1% hit as well, but the Horde only gets +1% haste. I'd imagine they'd give both factions that, but it's Blizzard so who knows?

Originally Posted by Gunmist

When A guild has a couple thousand 80's, I think it will be very hard to show everyone in it. Hell, even the armory has trouble showing everyone in my guild.

On my realm, I have yet to have seen a guild that has reached 100 members without alts in it...

---------- Post added 2010-07-28 at 10:37 AM ----------

Originally Posted by bloodwine77

I think Blizzard has stated that only the top 10 contributors in a guild are used for guild perks. So theoretically a guild with 10 active members will be no worse off than a guild with 200 active members. I hope that is in fact the case.

This is correct.

Originally Posted by Sal

I just can't see them giving Alliance +1% damage (worgen?) and +1% hit as well, but the Horde only gets +1% haste. I'd imagine they'd give both factions that, but it's Blizzard so who knows?

Those buffs aren't raid or party-wide anymore. My Draenei's Heroic Presense only affects my Draenei. Goblin Haste only affects Goblins. Worgen's +1% Crit (not damage, unless they are going to change it) only affects Worgen's, ect ect.

Originally Posted by kiurys

Good thing Blizzard doesnt agree with you.

The reason that hybrids get the hybrid tax IS NOT because they bring a unique buff but because you have the option of, at any time, switching to another role other than dps. Thats why you have the hybrid tax.

Think about it as a luxury tax. You have the option with the same character of fulfilling roles other than dps. Pure dps dont have that option so its only fair they have a higher theoretical dps.

I think its fair. Dont like it? Tough. Blizzard thinks its fair.

It's a good thing Blizzard's policy regarding this is subject to change. Hopefully it will sooner rather than later. If a hybrid comes to dps, they come to dps, period. I don't mind a small difference, but not several thousand points worth like today. Dps-only classes provide far more incentives than they used to nowadays without actually having to role switch. Some hybrids like Priest actually have an alarmingly low amount. It's not an excuse anymore.

Originally Posted by Hoosiermama

Seems like they're listening to you, actually. With buffs more shared, you don't *have* to bring a shaman or paladin for their awesome buffs. You can bring them for being awesome people, awesome players, or both. Whichever your guild is more inclined to do.

No. Becouse you don't need the buffs and those guys are awesome players, you tell them to reroll into USEFUL class that can actually do DPS

..and what Kenai said..