MMO-Champion - WoWTal 12694, Reputation Enchantments, Blue Posts
Cataclysm Build 12694 - Talent Calculator
I didn't post the talent calculator on patch days because of a few issues caused by the new client (The annoying 0 values on most of the new spells). The problem is now resolved, feel free to use the Cataclysm Talent Calculator again.



Cataclysm Build 12694 - Reputation Enchantments
The latest beta build added the spells for reputation enchantments, nothing really super-interesting but I figured it would make a couple of theorycrafters happy.
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Reputation Enchantments - Shoulders

Reputation Enchantments - Head

Blue Posts
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Concentration Aura
Someone else is getting Concentration Aura. Place your bets. (Source)

200% crits
Warlocks and mages get 200% crits.

We have talents or passives for the hybrid classes because we want the nukers to get the big crits but not the healers. But for mages and warlocks, it seemed silly to have identical passives that say "you get 200% crits" when we don't do that for all the melee classes who get 200% crits.

Incidentally, hunters also get 200% crits in Cataclysm. They already did for the most part on all of their physical attacks, but unless I'm mistaken, attacks like Arcane Shot could only get a 150% crits. That is fixed for Cataclysm. (Source)

Raid Buffs in Cataclysm
Nobody has more powerful versions. All raid buffs are identical in power in Cataclysm. Some have different durations or radii or other measurements of convenience. "I won't get brought because his buff is more powerful than mine," is a pretty reasonable argument. "I won't get brought because his buff is more convenient than mine," just doesn't carry the same punch.

Players are going to find themselves in situations all the time where they bring the same buff that someone else brings. Shaman and paladins are probably in the best situation of bring able to bring something no matter what else the group already has. But we still want for groups to be able to bring say two Fire mages, and in that case, their contributions are identical. (Source)

Failed specs
Yet, even though Enhance's dps was low, there were thousands of dps shaman raiding ICC. By far the majority of raids had at least one. The only specs we really failed on in LK raiding were Frost mage, Subtlety rogue, BM hunter and Arms warrior. (Source)

Hybrid Builds
We really haven't ever supported the true hybrid builds where someone goes halfway down two trees. It would be one thing if someone really wanted to play say an Affliction warlock who also emphasized demons or the Ret paladin who also wanted to be a better healer. But almost without exception the hybrid builds that have ever existed involved sneaking down into a second tree to get an overpowered talent or two. The developers never really wanted the last talent in a tree to be a decision. They want you to get that talent. When players would make builds that didn't go to the bottom of their tree they would feel like something was wrong with the tree. Nobody wants that 31-point talent to be a hard choice.

So, yeah, go get that 31-point talent. You'll have some decisions to make on the way down and then you'll have 10 points that can get you 3 or 4 additional talents from a pool of 15 or so that are left over. Not all of those builds will make sense, but many of them will. That feels like plenty of choice to me and both you and we will know that you have the basics that make your spec work. (Source)

Rogue (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
Subtlety
We're going to make Dirty Tricks baseline.

We still think the mobility between Subtlety and the other trees is a little far apart. This is something we want to address.

We also think Subtlety's damage against heavy armored targets is probably a little low and we're looking at that as well.

However, as we said in the Twitter dev chat, if you had a tree with Assassination's burst or Combat's timers *and* Shadowstep and Prep, why would you play anything else in PvP? In PvE, we want to get all 3 rogue specs to be as close together as possible. But part of that involves Rupture and Honor Among Thieves, which are just more potent in PvE than PvP. In PvP, we think it's fair that Subtlety does less toe-to-toe damage given that the tree has so many advantages when not toe-to-toe. (Source)

Sprint cooldown
I will admit that the 3 min cooldown on Sprint feels a bit antiquated. It's something we're discussing but it's too soon to promise anything. (Source)

Shaman (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
Totems not as useful as before?
This is a pretty common sentiment among shaman, but it's just not one we agree with. Elemental shaman having to give up their dps totem for a dps buff was a situation we weren't happy with. But Enhance giving up a dps buff for utility totems -- and very powerful utility totems -- isn't the same thing in our minds.

We don't want to have to balance the game around the assumption that Earthbind or Tremor Totem are up 100% of the time in a raid, which they would be if they also gave you the Strength of Earth buff. (For starters, we'd have to give equivalents to other classes since otherwise having a shaman would be a huge advantage.) Once you remove Tremor and Earthbind, (and disregarding Stoneclaw and Earth Elemental as super situational) then you're left with Strength of Earth vs. Stoneskin, and the powers of those two really aren't comparable. If you have one shaman, drop Strength of Earth. If you have two, or someone else who can bring that buff, then you can add Stoneskin. If you really need Earthbind or Tremor for an encounter, then you can live without Strength of Earth. Most of the time in PvE when you need those other two, it's not for the entirety of the fight anyway. (Source)

[...] If the model was that shaman were brought for their buffs then that would be a problem. But the model is that shaman are brought because they contribute to the group as a whole, which includes bringing some buffs (and to be fair, more than most classes) but also doing competitive dps. If your dps is too low, then *that* is the problem, not that you don't bring a powerful buff so awesome that you're virtually guaranteed a raid spot even if you go AFK half the time. (Source)

[...] And if you have a paladin, you probably have Devotion Aura, so then there is no reason to drop Stoneskin either. And if the group also has a warrior, then that warrior might Battle Shout, rendering Horn of Winter useless. You just aren't going to be guaranteed a raid slot because you bring the only reasonable version of a group buff. The good news is that nobody is. (Source)

Warrior (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
Rage Normalization - Crits no longer generate extra rage
We actually are concerned that even with normalization that rage scales too well with gear. Currently on beta, rage generation feels about right at level 80, but the income drops down more and more with higher levels. Now we have no doubt once warriors get epic gear with tons of haste and crit that they will have plenty of rage again, but that's the problem that rage normalization was really intended to fix.

The solution we're looking at, and I predict a lot you aren't going to like it, is not to have crits provide extra rage. That will let us bump rage income across the board without it getting infinite again at the epic level. This actually provides a certain amount of consistency with other classes because then crit would be about bigger numbers and haste would be about being able to do more because you have more resources to work with.

We think to feel right that warriors (and bears) generally need enough rage income to hit their main rotational buttons, but not Heroic Strike or Cleave. You might occasionally have to wait a second for that Bloodthirst or Mortal Strike, but we don't want that to be a regular occurrence (unless you just squandered your rage by playing badly.) Getting a lot of rage, because say you were stunned or took a lot of damage from something or the shaman popped Bloodlust, then just lets you Heroic Strike or Cleave more, get bigger Executes, save GCDs from going to Bloodrage, etc.

But also to feel right, this needs to occur in both quest greens and fully-gemmed and enchanted endgame gear. We don't think that is happening enough yet on beta.

Rest assured, you'll still scale just fine with gear.

Hit rating and rage generation
We know Cataclysm warriors will value hit pretty highly, and to be honest that's not a bad place to be coming off of LK where warriors viewed hit as junk. Then again, part of that was because of the Heroic Strike bug, so maybe hit would have been more valuable even in LK.

We're also taking a hard look at combat ratings across the board right now in Cataclysm. We removed so many passive combat ratings from the talent trees (as well as things like Misery and the Draenei racial) that we're concerned that our current ratings are too brutal. If we relax those, then everyone will see their hit go up.

If after all that dust settles warriors still are penalized too much for a miss then we might consider something to address that, but only if we were confident that warriors would still desire hit on gear more than they did in LK. (Source)

Rage "nerf"
It's just tricky because we know that warriors used to the Icecrown raiding environment are going to feel rage nerfed almost no matter what. Some of those warriors are going to complain about being rage starved anytime they aren't hitting Heroic Strike on cooldown. We just have to be very cautious when we get feedback. It is 100% supposed to be a nerf, but only to the degree of having to pay attention to that red bar up there under your health. It isn't supposed to be a dps nerf (minus the Heroic Strike bug and Shadowmourne and other things that make Fury dps too high on live). (Source)

Warrior Scaling
Totally. A little more rage is fine. Cats get more combo points as their geat gets better. Mages get more mana. We're just worried that the Cataclysm numbers currently in beta will make warriors still scale too well with gear, which means the leveling warriors don't have fun or the warriors facing the Bastion of Twilight out-dps the other classes. (Source)
This article was originally published in forum thread: WoWTal 12694, Reputation Enchantments, Blue Posts started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 99 Comments
  1. smrund's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by FireryRage View Post
    You realize you just pointed out how not having full rage will be solved...
    So they normalize rage. Meaning you don't see so much discrepancy between low gear rage gen and high gear rage gen, and generally forcing you to manage rage instead of generally ignoring it.
    Your argument is this will result in less attacks, thus less dps.
    Yet you just followed up your argument pointing out blizz could change the damage of abilities.
    See what you just did there?
    Less attacks, ok. How do we solve this insurmountable issue of there being less attacks yet maintaining decent dps? Make the attacks hit harder. Done.
    Seriously, if any one dps class is consistently lagging in dps, all they have to do is tweak those specialization bonuses. Remember those, the +8% damage ones you get? Yeah. Your class doing 5% less damage in general than others? All they have to do is bump up that specialization bonus by 5% or so. Problem solved.

    Seriously, it bugs me when people make arguments, and then completely counter their own arguments with another one, all while pretending both are supporting each other.
    You mean like reducing the bonus enrage gives you and it's duration? You mean like reducing the effect Rampage has on you? You mean like reducing the power of whirlwind in favor of a new single-target attack that is nowhere near as powerful? I've yet to see anything here where Blizz is saying Fury *such-in-such* is doing too little DPS.

    And great! If I gave them an idea that they can workably use to make Fury warriors less furious but still just as viable a DPS role, then that is awesome!
  1. Omedon's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Noomz View Post
    I'm wondering why anyone would want to bring a shaman now. What's the point of a shaman?
    The shaman is played by a good player?

    Think outside the current box, and in the new one, it gets a lot clearer over here in the world where we play with people, not classes.
  1. Zaerix's Avatar
    At first I thought a lack of Paladin news would be somewhat welcome, "For once we're not on the chopping block." I assumed.

    Oh how wrong I was.

    I'm scared for my class no matter what happens, a lack of news just makes me wonder what abomination they're morphing the Paladin into.

    *secures tinfoil hat* We're screwed. We're screwed and there's nothing we can do about it. TO THE BUNKER!
  1. Ryme's Avatar
    Why Concentration Aura? It's lame.

    I'd bet priests get it though.

    ---------- Post added 2010-08-09 at 01:12 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Omedon View Post
    The shaman is played by a good player?

    Think outside the current box, and in the new one, it gets a lot clearer over here in the world where we play with people, not classes.
    I get what you're saying, but given the choice between a good shammy and a good rogue, let's say, I'd take the rogue every time.
  1. Kazlofski's Avatar
    Warriors will get the aura, as tanks.
  1. The Last DJ's Avatar
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Concentration Aura
    Someone else is getting Concentration Aura. Place your bets.
    Someone other than shaman, please. We've got enough to juggle as it is.

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

    Failed specs
    Yet, even though Enhance's dps was low, there were thousands of dps shaman raiding ICC. By far the majority of raids had at least one. The only specs we really failed on in LK raiding were Frost mage, Subtlety rogue, BM hunter and Arms warrior.
    I can name maybe three Enhancement shamans in the top raiding guilds on my server (and most of them are alts, or were taken in on alt runs or soaked Enh offspec gear). By far many more were Elemental, and many more than that were Resto. (I mean, hell, I'm the only Enhancement shaman in my guild - two are Resto with Enh offspec for farming/dailies, and another switched to an Arcane Mage because Enhancement became too convoluted.) I am however glad to hear that the raid buff strength will be normalized in Cataclysm, as it levels the playing field a bit, at least for bleeding edge guilds who want the best of the best for progression raids. However, it's a bit doink on Blizzard's part to have Shamans invest 2 points (7 if you're not Enhancement) just to make our buffs the same radius size as buffs that were ... uh ... buffed... to bring their radii to a normalized range.
  1. Poysonivy's Avatar
    My bet goes to Mages.
  1. Knirps's Avatar
    I don't understand why they even bother updating it...it's the same, empty trees for every class, requiring you to fill them up, take undesirable talents, then pop into other trees for tidbits. Every class, exactly the same. The only 'choice' you can have on things lke healer trees is to take damage talents in exchange for things that actually help you heal.
  1. Necrotan's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Knirps View Post
    I don't understand why they even bother updating it...it's the same, empty trees for every class, requiring you to fill them up, take undesirable talents, then pop into other trees for tidbits. Every class, exactly the same. The only 'choice' you can have on things lke healer trees is to take damage talents in exchange for things that actually help you heal.
    It's not a lot of choice. But I see more choice than on live servers. On live its all cookie cutter or your fail. On beta you get to choose 3 or 4 talents you dont want, sure thats not much but which ones you choose not to take is in fact up to you.

    Not perfect but on the right track.
  1. Achalys's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Hairballs View Post
    I think its total bullshit that we are losing the hybrid build!!! I love the fact that while farming or leveling my lock can have a fel guard out and still do alot of dmg. forcing me to go all demo just to get the fel guard is bullshit because a full demo build sucks and you cant raid with it and your dmg sucks overall. Guess Ill never play my lock again. Thanks blizzard for screwing something else up.
    demonology is one one of the top specs currently.
  1. Torethyr's Avatar
    Two Hundred Gold says Conc Aura is going to Priests!
  1. Rhaide's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Duster505 View Post
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

    Hybrid Builds
    We really haven't ever supported the true hybrid builds where someone goes halfway down two trees. It would be one thing if someone really wanted to play say an Affliction warlock who also emphasized demons or the Ret paladin who also wanted to be a better healer. But almost without exception the hybrid builds that have ever existed involved sneaking down into a second tree to get an overpowered talent or two. The developers never really wanted the last talent in a tree to be a decision. They want you to get that talent. When players would make builds that didn't go to the bottom of their tree they would feel like something was wrong with the tree. Nobody wants that 31-point talent to be a hard choice.

    So, yeah, go get that 31-point talent. You'll have some decisions to make on the way down and then you'll have 10 points that can get you 3 or 4 additional talents from a pool of 15 or so that are left over. Not all of those builds will make sense, but many of them will. That feels like plenty of choice to me and both you and we will know that you have the basics that make your spec work.
    This is exactly a topic when you realise that CURRENT Blizzard devs have lost the basics and the core of an entire game. What is a "hybrid" class in Cata? - oh ... wait .. there IS none. And the reasons acording to Blizzard is "the hybrid builds that have ever existed involved sneaking down into a second tree to get an overpowered talent or two". Hmm ... really? I have yet to hear of a Holy paladin that speced half way down to Tank tree to get better at healing PVE content...

    Lets talk facts here. Poor DESIGN makes for ppl exploiding game mecanics. And in this case - we are talking BALANCE . And no.. we are NOT talking overall balance... We are talking PVP balance ONLY
    Lets look abit deeper into this Blizzard statement. The last point in each tree would be the defining talent of each spec... then that exact talent would be the one that makes an ENTIRE class a PERFECT
    1) tank in PVE and PVP (oh... there is no tanking in PVP)
    2) Perfect HEALER in both PVP and PVE... hmm)
    3) Perfect DPS in both PVP and PVE (actually possible if there was just ONE kind of PVP - Withc is NOT the case since PVP is open world - 2v2 -3v3 -5v5 (rated) and then
    battlegrounds).

    Overall - this statement from Blues goes as FAR as possible from a person that actually knows what the term Hybrid means. Hybrids are NOT about balance... they are about Choises ! And that EXACTLY what Blizzard has removed from the game...

    And the sad part... they are not removing it because it improves the game for most players or make it more intresting... No - They are doing it because they are YET again trying to balance two SEPERATE parts of the game. Two parts that are TOTALY irrelevant to the other - if not for the fact of 3 talent trees...

    And btw... since when has BLizzard managed to make ANY Hybrid tree that makes the 31 point talent a "defning" talent for that class - Hmmm... lets start with holy paladin Cata 31 talent that heals players INFRONT of the player while all the other healers can just hit a button and do the exactly same not worrying where they stand as long as they are in range... lol how poor of a group healer must a class be if that is a must compared to the other smartheals ingame?

    oh... and I still wonder if that Holy paladin talent is actually a defing talent for PVP and PVE... ye... right.... 2v2... lets hit that frontal healing saviour !!!

    Cut the crap Blizzard.

    If you want balance then lets see 1 tree for each class in PVP . Defining ablies that make the ENTIRE class and lets build the PVP balance from there. For god sake stop destroying an entire game trying to balance something that is NOT possible. And stop ruining the entire game for BOTH PVP and PVE while at it...

    And back to poor design. When will BLizzard realise that designing a "core" classes for PVP and PVE isn't possible when 1 of those 3 core classes isn't vialbe ? Im OFC talkning PVP and Tanking. So... Design your game properly or just explain the TRUTH instead of bringing out statements like the one above.
    I think you're reading WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too far into this. He's talking mainly about people neglecting to get that final tier talent point because they can spend that ONE point in the fifth tier from another tree (that they couldn't get without sacrificing that final talent point). An example would be:

    For a very small period of time (until they realized it was happening), some Blood dps specced DKs would forgo Dancing Rune Weapon in favor of Unholy Blight. Because Sudden Doom became a triggered ability rather than a proc that required a GCD, Unholy Blight became more attractive because of the sheer number of extra death coils firing off all the time.

    Bliz doesn't want people skipping over the 'best talent in the tree' (arguably) in favor or something that SHOULDN'T be better even though (because of a mishap) it might be.

    On a final, more personal note, you need to quit complaining. I understand all the issues about balancing for PVP, it can be annoying but don't complain about them taking options away. Think about it, they have 10 classes, each class has at least 3 specs (an argument could be made that druids and DKs have more). That's over 30 options, and a LOT of balancing to do on Bliz's part. If they added more, not only would it be spreading things a bit thin but things would become even more unbalanced which would in turn cause thousands more qq'ers to get on the forums and yell about such and such spec being too OP. 30 options is enough, we really don't need all kinds of spec mixtures making it more complicated.
  1. Marzenia's Avatar
    Warlocks and mages get 200% crits.

    \o/
    Yay for maegs!
  1. Deos's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyocere View Post
    Another day, another big Warrior post. Somebody just lemme know when the xpac is out so I don't have to waste time reading about Warriors.
    Yeah seriously.. This is getting annoying.
  1. bobowe's Avatar
    Warrior Scaling
    Totally. A little more rage is fine. Cats get more combo points as their geat gets better.(Source)
    omg grammar nazi on blizz=)
  1. Zookz25's Avatar
    I'm really kind of saddened by the lack of death knight changes/info in the past few weeks.

    There has been next to nothing. :|

    I guess there isn't a whole lot that's messed up with them, but the more I look at how pathetic Imp Blood presence's attempt to seem like a useful talent outside of the crit immunity, the more enraged I become.
  1. Jukaï's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Snoogle View Post
    That's bullshit, demonology isn't that far behind.
    And neither is Beast Mastery for Hunters. Why Ghostcrawler states they 'failed' on that spec is thus beyond me.
  1. Dexiefy's Avatar
    Then play a ret paladin and stop whining. Warriors are balanced around a certain level of rage generation. That's the whole reason they're underpowered in poor gear and overpowered in end-game gear. It's been that way since Vanilla. Finally they're actually going to try and fix it.
    And with their current plan they own pvp warriors cause of rage not scaling with crit and enforce haste that is just most useless stat for any melee class in pvp and will just nerf warrior no matter the gear they have.
    With this plan warrior instead of being worthless w/o gear (as it is now) will be less than worthless if its even possible.

    Also they nerf rage generation yet rage burn on stance change still exist which is even more retarded. How i see it its copy of tbc rage nomralization. Blizzard failing again and making warrior class completly unplayable for few months of the expansion.

    And if they really want to fix the problem they actually shouldnt mess with retarded haste and just make rage based on weapon speed and crits. TBC idea of rage normalization was good, they just screwed up with numbers completly. with full r14/aq40 gear with double crit sword specc i had 40 rage ~~
  1. Ishmad's Avatar
    Concentration Aura: Plz for Warlocks

    Shaman, Druid, or Mage are possible too. (Hunter, wtf?)
  1. bbr's Avatar
    Uh, boub, you listed one of the inscriptions twice.
    # Inscription of Shattered Crystal - Permanently adds 30 Agility and 20 mastery rating to a shoulder slot item.
    # Greater Inscription of Shattered Crystal - Permanently adds 50 Agility and 25 mastery rating to a shoulder slot item.
    # Inscription of Shattered Crystal - Permanently adds 30 Agility and 20 mastery rating to a shoulder slot item.
    But, I'm sure there's plenty in this thread who noticed that by now...

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