MMO-Champion - Troll/Gnome Character Selection, Blue Posts, Comics
Troll and Gnome Character Selection Screen
The latest beta build fixed the bugs with the new character selection screens for gnomes and trolls, hopefully the revamped starting zones for both races and the more attractive creation screen will give us more gnomes to harass.



Blue Posts
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Tanks - Vengeance
Imagine the tooltip for Vengeance read "Your damage scales with the rest of your raid as if you wore dps gear instead of tanking gear." That's pretty much it.

Q: Why not just make it +threat?
A: Tanks tell us *constantly* that damage is fun and threat without damage is not fun. Devastate is a much more fun button than Sunder Armor.

Q: Why make me have to worry about threat?
A: Because it's part of your job. A fight where there is no real danger of losing threat means half those buttons on your bar don't do much.

Q: Why not make tanks wear dps gear?
A: A few reasons. The big one is that tanks care about survival so they want to gear for survival. The bear solution works okay, but I suspect if they had the choice, the druids would rather see us itemize bear leather (if we could solve all the skewed distribution problems that led us to the current goal in the first place).

Now, it would be awesome if tanks did consider dps stats more seriously, and maybe outside of the instagib environment of Lich King, they will. Back in the day, tanks at least have say swords and rings for +threat fights even if they didn't use them all the time.

Q: Why does Vengeance needs to fall off at all?
A: Because we want you to care about actually hitting your buttons. You should be good at threat because you know when to use a Shield Slam for burst threat, not because of a nearly-passive aura that makes stuff stick to you like glue. If we wanted Vengeance to solve every problem of tanking, we would just make Defensive Stance et al. give you a 1000% threat modifier such that you'd never have problems.

Q: But if Vengeance falls off, we'll wipe.
A: That's not the intent. You have Shield Slam and similar abilities. You have a lot of threat generating tools. Heck, you have Taunt much of the time.

Q: What is the role of Vengeance in PvP?
A: Hopefully irrelevant. If making it dispellable isn't sufficient, we'll simply turn it off.

Q: Why can't tanks do competitive damage in PvP?
A: Because they chose the tank role instead of the dps role. Tanking comes with enormous advantages that are helpful in PvP, such as being hard to kill, hard to control and having good control of your own. That will be even more useful in the Rated BGs of Cataclysm.

Q: [I don't like that design. I prefer a different design.]
A: Feedback like that is useful to a point, but understand that your feedback will be more valuable if it does align with our goals. Saying "I think tanks should do the same damage as dps specs," is fine feedback, but it's something we're unlikely to change.

Hunter (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
Focus
We implemented focus because hunters do not feel like a magic class to us. They aren't casting spells. They are shooting things with a ranged weapon. (Source)

Paladin (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
Protection
Paladins were always the "Block first, ask questions later" tank class of TBC and Wrath. Yes warriors use shields too, but Holy Shield made us block far more than the other guy.
We're just not happy with the way Prot paladins have been playing in Lich King. If you've followed these forums for some time that should come as no surprise. It's difficult to do that without breaking some eggs / butchering some sacred cows / insert your own metaphor here. Now we don't want to lose what it is that attracted you to the class in the first place, but we do need some space to come up with something we think is fun. (Source)

Holy Power as a mechanic is far from a polished entity.
I would agree. It just went in a few weeks ago. But we have plenty of time before we ship. (Source)

TLDR: 1) Please rethink the Holy Power = Mitigation philosophy and work it into Holy Power = Burst Threat philosophy.
The problem with this is that survival tends to trump threat concerns for tanks much of the time, and that's a totally logical response to have given the encounters you're asked to tank. While there are some fights where burst threat matters, there are plenty that don't. Almost every fight involves the tank staying alive however. We didn't want to introduce this new mechanic which was supposed to add some interest to all three paladin trees, and then have Prot paladins fall back on just mashing buttons on cooldown the way they play today, at least on the fights where threat wasn't tight. (Source)

The MMO Report
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Comics
Dark Legacy Comic #250 and Teh Gladiators #156 + #157 are out!

This article was originally published in forum thread: Troll/Gnome Character Selection, Blue Posts, Comics started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 77 Comments
  1. Shamslam's Avatar
    They are making the game more like TBC, which sucks. I love it, but the majority will bitch endlessly that WoW might be difficult again. You don't even need DBM or Omen anymore, there's no point.

    And ENOUGH of the protadin changes. Every damn day...getting old.
  1. Baygon's Avatar
    they seem like they are making tanking more confusing, which is probably a bad idea, we don't need less tanks, we barely have enough as it is currently
  1. lunaspike's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Casual View Post
    i hope they dont make tanking overly complicated so it drives away new people from tanking. The tank pop is small enough it doesnt need to shrink more

    Not overly complicated, but the feeling I get is that they want to make it more niche tanking. They are pushing paladins, and warriors to an extent, to be tanks for lots of small hits. While druids/dks will be able to tank bosses much easier. Though to be honest from what I have heard the druid and dk are getting the all around treatment. The dk system looks great, they don't have it perfect i.e. bp, but it looks good. Druid tanking looks like it's going to be great. The rage normalization from warriors won't be an issue considering the dps gear, lots of nice abilities gained etc. I think so far that had all been anticipated and most good tanks already have an 80 dk and an 80 druid or they are working on them. I got my 80dk awhile back, been working on my druid.

    They put up walls of text every day describing the ongoing development of the paladin and warrior. The reason why you ask? Resource issues. Either they make it so the classes have an overabundance of resources, or they make it so the classes don't have enough. They are trying to find some magical "sweet spot" that simply doesn't exist. If they make it so the classes have too many of a certain resource they are worried tanking becomes too fun, if they make them with too few tanking becomes impossible to hold threat. Why don't the other classes have the same issues? They have interesting ways around this, druids are fine wearing dps gear, with huge health pools. Dk, is similar, they use dps weapons, and they have some nice defensive cds to allow them survive. With dks though they have had an entire expansion to try and get it right. In the end what did they do? They gave them a spammable high threat ability, and buffed survivability while increasing some key abilities. They did the same for druids, and they will probably end up doing exactly the same for warriors and paladins. Give them a couple of high threat abilities that can be spammed, and providing them with some cds. It just apparently can't be a spammable high threat aoe ability. Blizz seems to be completely fine with spamming a high threat single target ability to maintain threat. Because pressing 1111111112111111311111112 is "fun".

    They are reworking both classes imo, and everything so far should be considered to be in alpha and not even beta phase. It will probably be another month at least before we see anything near a working setup for either class.

    As it stands now though, they are pushing tanks into two viable classes and from there allowing several others to tank heroics but not raids.

    Also shamslam, just curious but could you post a link to your tanks armory. Wondering about race/class choice on it? I assume you have a tank since you were talking about how easy it is.
  1. Frygar's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by lunaspike View Post
    They are pushing paladins, and warriors to an extent, to be tanks for lots of small hits. While druids/dks will be able to tank bosses much easier. Though to be honest from what I have heard the druid and dk are getting the all around treatment. I think so far that had all been anticipated and most good tanks already have an 80 dk and an 80 druid or they are working on them. I got my 80dk awhile back, been working on my druid.

    They put up walls of text every day describing the ongoing development of the paladin and warrior. The reason why you ask? Resource issues. Either they make it so the classes have an overabundance of resources, or they make it so the classes don't have enough. They are trying to find some magical "sweet spot" that simply doesn't exist. If they make it so the classes have too many of a certain resource they are worried tanking becomes too fun, if they make them with too few tanking becomes impossible to hold threat. Why don't the other classes have the same issues? They have interesting ways around this, druids are fine wearing dps gear, with huge health pools. Dk, is similar, they use dps weapons, and they have some nice defensive cds to allow them survive. With dks though they have had an entire expansion to try and get it right. In the end what did they do? They gave them a spammable high threat ability, and buffed survivability while increasing some key abilities. They did the same for druids, and they will probably end up doing exactly the same for warriors and paladins. Give them a couple of high threat abilities that can be spammed, and providing them with some cds. It just apparently can't be a spammable high threat aoe ability. Blizz seems to be completely fine with spamming a high threat single target ability to maintain threat. Because pressing 1111111112111111311111112 is "fun".

    They are reworking both classes imo, and everything so far should be considered to be in alpha and not even beta phase. It will probably be another month at least before we see anything near a working setup for either class.

    As it stands now though, they are pushing tanks into two viable classes and from there allowing several others to tank heroics but not raids.

    Also shamslam, just curious but could you post a link to your tanks armory. Wondering about race/class choice on it? I assume you have a tank since you were talking about how easy it is.
    NO, they have said their goal is to make all 4 tanks viable in most situations, bar a few fights where its natural that certain playstyles will be an advantage. Druids and DKs will not have an upper hand on boss fights.

    NO, it is not evident that most paladins and warriors have a spare druid and DK just sitting around to tank with should they become "better". You have no way of substantiating this claim.

    NO, it is not impossible to find a sweet spot with tanking resources, it is not always one extreme or the other, as you suggest.

    NO, the fact that druids have dps gear and large health pools, and DKs have a spammable high threat ability does not mean they are exempt from the resource issue. If they have to find a sweet spot with paladin and warrior resources, they have to do the same with DKs and druids.

    NO, it is not evident that the current warrior and paladin models are far off from their finals versions. There is no evidence to suggest that they are at "alpha" levels of development.

    NO, it is not evident that Blizzard is trying to make two classes viable for raiding, and the others only tank heroics. That is ridiculous, and goes against their philosophy that they want all tanks to be viable for nearly all content.
  1. Olderonous's Avatar
    DLC is so win this week, havn't seen one this funny in a while
    only people who can dislike this one are the ones being made fun of in it
  1. BOBL1N's Avatar
    Tiki imps are soo cool! I think in Cata every one of my chars are going to be Trolls and Goblins :P

    Well not my warrior..

    ..Okay maybe my warrior.
  1. Shamslam's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by lunaspike View Post
    Also shamslam, just curious but could you post a link to your tanks armory. Wondering about race/class choice on it? I assume you have a tank since you were talking about how easy it is.
    Where in my post did I say anything about tanking being easy? I said the game as it is now is easy, which is true. The tanking changes are just one more thing (Healers actually running out of mana again, DPSers possibly having to take defensive talents to stay alive) in a big list of Blizzard making the game more like TBC again. It's somewhat obvious by Blizzard's posts that they agree with this too. Why else would they make it so tanks lose aggro over time? or that they are going to deliberatly make healers go OOM unless they are very smart, and that DPS will actually have to not tunnel vision and use CDs to not die.

    I said you don't need DBM or Omen in WotLK, which is also entirely true. I haven't used it since day one and haven't had any problems with raiding. Any tank around the same gear level as the DPS will have no problem with what they are doing if they are not retarded.

    You're probably just a tank that's butthurt that people think your job is just as simple as the DPSers or healers.
  1. Anotherhack's Avatar
    They should update all the character selection screens, really liking these new ones.
  1. chaoknight's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by implicationmmo View Post
    When I got my war tank lvl 80, with just one piece of i245 ( bought non-set gear first ), and a mass ilvl 157, I still could keep the aggro just fine, except when certain classes/spec were doing 5/6k + ( I am talking about the war tank before recent changes, where it has become easier )

    And why can't you queue for heroics at the start, if you already have some i232 gear? I have done it, people laught a bit, but if you just tank and shut up, people are fine with it
    I'm past all that torture, and am creeping up to my 5k GS. I just meant in the beginning I was never in a heroic that DIDN'T have the mages/warlocks hitting 5k dps and yelling at me constantly to kept up threat while everyone laughed. Guess I was just unlucky, and now new tanks are going to have it even worse.
  1. justlols's Avatar
    Boubi you're falling behind... i had already seen the troll and gnome start up screens in other sites.
  1. fishz's Avatar
    I like how we, Hunters, are getting no attention at all these days. Survival tree is still broken but, hey, more Paladin news.

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Hunter (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
    Focus
    We implemented focus because hunters do not feel like a magic class to us. They aren't casting spells. They are shooting things with a ranged weapon. (Source)
    In before no shit sherlock.
  1. theburned's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by DrFeelGood View Post
    mommy dont hurt me
    agreed but I enjoyed it this week
  1. symbiosis72's Avatar
    The screens look great, but in Cata are we getting more toon creation space per realm? most ppl already have ten...12 would be good since there are 2 new races, cause most ppl have 9 or ten playing toons per realm (and one bank toon - to store shit and do auctions and transactions) so is there going to be room for my personal character space?
  1. Big Ben's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by fishz View Post
    I like how we, Hunters, are getting no attention at all these days. Survival tree is still broken but, hey, more Paladin news.
    Cata will fix it
    Oh wait...
  1. Karot's Avatar
    dlc = epic win

    =d
  1. Winrie's Avatar
    Yummy =)
  1. dksu's Avatar
    Q: Why can't tanks do competitive damage in PvP?
    A: Because they chose the tank role instead of the dps role. Tanking comes with enormous advantages that are helpful in PvP, such as being hard to kill, hard to control and having good control of your own. That will be even more useful in the Rated BGs of Cataclysm.


    Uh, a bit about PvP. I'm surprised there's so few comments about this remark. The fact that this question was even seriously answered betrays a real lack of knowledge on the part of both the questioner and the blue. Why? Because the idea that 'tanks can't do competitive damage in PvP' is completely absurd. Anyone who's arena'd for a moderate amount of time the last few seasons will have come up against teams with prot warriors or prot pallies. Not only do they have a ridiculous amount of CC and survivability, but they regularly do as much or more damage than the pure dps specs (e.g. prot pallies out-damaging marksman hunters), which makes them a top choice class for serious PvPers. The idea that they 'don't do competitive damage' is just false.

    One can only conclude that this wasn't a serious question, and that the answer was equally unserious. Either that, or this problem won't be addressed at all in Cataclysm, because Blizzard actually believes that prot damage isn't competitive in PvP.

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