Flexible Raid Lock System in 4.0.1
Originally Posted by Bashiok (Blue Tracker)
Almost six months ago we announced that Cataclysm raids were being redesigned to make both raid sizes the same difficulty, drop the same quality of loot, and exist in the same lockout. This evolution in raid philosophy is built on the belief that the size of your raiding group should be a choice based solely on what's more fun and enjoyable for you, and that you should not have to complete the same raiding content twice in a week to maximize your character's progression. These systems are the culmination of a great deal of design and player feedback from the last few years. With the release of the 4.0.1 patch, the new Flexible Raid Lock system will debut in Icecrown Citadel and The Ruby Sanctum.

With the Flexible Raid Lock system, instead of being locked to a specific raid size or raid group, each character will have the opportunity to defeat each raid encounter once a week. You could kill Lord Marrowgar and Lady Deathwhisper with a 10-player raid on Wednesday, join a 25-player raid to kill Festergut and Rotface on Thursday, and then lead a completely new 10-player raid to kill The Lich King on Friday. Every raid has a list of encounters associated with the zone. For example, Icecrown Citadel has twelve encounters. After you defeat Lord Marrowgar, you can open up your character's raid information dialog and see the list of encounters in Icecrown Citadel with Marrowgar marked as defeated. You may no longer fight Lord Marrowgar with any raid size or difficulty until the weekly raid reset for your region occurs.

Another key change is that if you join someone else's raid in progress, you are no longer locked to that raid after merely zoning in. Your raid status will only change when a boss is defeated, at which point it will be updated to reflect the state of the instance in which you are currently participating. So, let's say you have killed the first four bosses of Icecrown Citadel, and you then join a raid that has defeated the first four encounters, as well as Festergut and Rotface. The dialog that displays upon entering Icecrown Citadel will show that the raid has defeated 6 of 12 encounters. If you help them defeat Professor Putricide, then you would be marked as having defeated not only Professor Putricide for the week, but also Festergut and Rotface. If instead after joining the raid you then proceeded to wipe ten times to Professor Putricide, you could leave the raid with only the first four bosses marked as completed.

To help communicate to players which bosses are dead in the raid leader's raid, there is new functionality to link in chat a list of the encounters the raid has defeated. So before you join a raid, you can see what they've already defeated. If a raid leader advertises in chat that she needs another healer for an 8/12 Icecrown Citadel run, you can see precisely which bosses are still available to fight. If you were only looking for that one item from Queen Lana'thel that never drops for you and this raid already defeated her, you will know not to join that raid.

Let's look at another example of the Flexible Raid Lock system. A guild schedules three nights for 25-player Icecrown Citadel raiding on Wednesday, Thursday, and Saturday. On Wednesday, the raid defeats Lord Marrowgar, Lady Deathwhisper, Icecrown Gunship Battle, and Saurfang. On Thursday, five people cancel their raid attendance due to real life emergencies. The raid leader knows that if he cancels Thursday raiding, there's little chance they'll have enough time on Saturday to defeat the other eight bosses in Icecrown Citadel. So he splits the remaining 20 Thursday raiders into two 10-player raids. Each new raid enters Icecrown Citadel and defeats Rotface, Festergut, Blood Council, and Valithria Dreamwalker. The next Saturday with all 25 players online, they reform as a 25-player raid and enter Icecrown Citadel once more. Only Professor Putricide, Queen Lana'thel, Sindragosa, and The Lich King remain. After a tough fight, the Lich King falls and everybody celebrates. Without the Flexible Raid Lock system the entire raid probably would have missed out on a night of raiding, and likely would not have reached the Lich King.

While players can freely move between raids of different sizes in normal difficulty, there are some additional rules for Heroic difficulty. If a 10- or 25-player raid defeats a boss on Heroic difficulty, then those players may now only raid additional Heroic encounters with that specific raid. If your Heroic 25-player raid defeats the first four bosses of Icecrown Citadel on Heroic, then they may not split up into two 10-player raids and continue to fight in Heroic difficulty. You may also not join someone else's raid if they have defeated a Heroic encounter.

But let's say you are a member of a Heroic raid in Icecrown Citadel, and after killing Lord Marrowgar on Heroic you have Internet connection issues that prevent you from raiding for two nights. During those two nights, the rest of the raid kills everything. Without the Flexible Raid Lock system, you would be done with raiding Icecrown Citadel for the week. Ouch. With the Flexible Raid Lock system, you can join someone else's raid as long as they are doing Normal difficulty. This would at least give you the opportunity to earn your Justice Points for the week. If this raid attempted to switch to Heroic difficulty for Icecrown Gunship Battle with you in the raid, the raid leader would receive an error message stating that she cannot change to Heroic, because someone in the raid (i.e., you) is already locked to a different Heroic instance.

All of the new Cataclysm raids will feature the Flexible Raid Lock and Dynamic Difficulty systems, and when the Cataclysm occurs the other Wrath of the Lich King raids will also have these features. It's important to note that this system doesn't affect Heroic dungeons, they will work as they always have. We look forward to feedback for this new system after 4.0.1 is released. As a reminder, Icecrown Citadel and The Ruby Sanctum are the only two raids that support the Flexible Raid Lock until the Cataclysm occurs.

Update
One piece of clarification on questions being asked so far, although we're still compiling feedback and will work to answer some of the questions and clear up any confusion we can.

The loot system in Icecrown and Ruby Sanctum is not changing. This implementation of the new flex raid lock is only that, a new implementation of the raid lockout system we'll be using in Cataclysm. This does not change the separation of 10 and 25 in ICC, and does not change the item drops or achievements.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Flexible Raid Lock System in 4.0.1 started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 365 Comments
  1. Scripts's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by waldona View Post
    Anyone know or think they know how this is implemented? If I already killed marrowgar and join a raid about to kill marrowgar what happens?

    Not allowed to join that raid because I already killed marrowgar?
    Am I ported out when Marrowgar is engaged?
    Am I allowed to "fight" marrowgar but not receive loot?
    Is Marrowgar no longer in the instance for this raid because I killed him before?
    Other?
    You cannot join a raid group that hasn't killed marrowgar, is how I'm reading it. If, however, the raid group you join has killed marrowgar and Lady D, and you do boat with them, then you are locked to Lady D and Boat. This is, of course, assuming that you killed Marrow on regular.

    Lets say you kill marrowgar on heroic, have disconnect issues, etc., and can't continue with that group. You then join the same raid group above a couple of days later at boat (and its a different raid ID than your original group) because you need the badges/bored/etc. They see your achievements, and say "OMG, A Kingslayer, Turn on Boat for us!!!!" You'll have to tell them, "Sorry, no dice. I killed a heroic boss already this week with a different group." They will then say, "Thanks for nothing, jerk" and kick you from the group.
  1. Kingsonz's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiimage View Post
    I believe they use ICC for explanation only. Since 90% of mmo-champion readers knows the order of the bosses in ICC, using them as examples are great.
    Reread the first paragraph of the blue post.
  1. sidebar's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarai View Post
    this is by far the worst idea they had in a long long time... getting rid of raid id´s accomplishes nothing but to make finding pugs even more complicated
    It will be easier for normal modes all around. Heroic Modes will be easier as well, as you have a pool of players that were not available before ... the ones that got saved to a fail normal run. It will also be easier to fill heroic modes with people that don't care about heroics and they will join knowing they can go back to normals once you fail.

    Overall, it will be easier to fill raids with these changes, once you actually think about it instead of knee jerk it.

    "what you have 3 bosses down? sry but we killed only 2"
    RL's with partial raids will be posting their link of progression, so anybody wanting to know, can click on the link and see. So there won't be back and forth like your assuming.

    ... AND you can not invite people who did heroic bosses if you intend to kill one
    Yes, but only if you have downed heroic bosses and want to continue doing heroic bosses. But, it will still be easier then filling now. Why? Cause now you can't fill with ANYBODY that has killed ANY boss in ICC. After the change, all the people that killed normal bosses in ICC will be able to join your raid (as long as they are not further along).

    So overall the only "stupid" thing around here are the people posting knee jerk reaction stating things are stupid without first thinking it through, or asking questions.
  1. mmocc3535cba92's Avatar
    nice changes
  1. Pryo's Avatar
    Cool idea imo
  1. Wickedpissah's Avatar
    http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...1&pageNo=7#134

    The loot system's not changing for ICC, only the lockout features.
  1. Rentonie's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingsonz View Post
    they should not bring this out for patch 4.0.1, or everything gets screwed up
    I agree this should not be brought out in ICC and RS. Let us run it the way we want till Cata so that we can get the gear we want. Some guild regardless of the expansion coming out are still trying to kill HM LK 25 and I think this will just kill it. I think its cool that they will be doing this in Cata but not right now.
  1. Llamda's Avatar
    Death of the 25 man raid IMO - and yet Bliz will still have to put a lot of time into them. Why bother with 25s - just a lot of extra hassle.
  1. Arlor's Avatar
    >> Another key change is that if you join someone else's raid in progress, you are no longer locked to that raid after merely zoning in.

    Haven't decided about how I feel about this rest, but this change is soooooo overdue. It's gotten to the point where I won't enter an instance in a PUG until every other player is inside. So many times the leader will say "let's go," and people start zoning in, and then three people d/c or leave group before the first pull. Ugh.
  1. sidebar's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Heltoray View Post
    idiotic idea to implement this with 4.0 imo. Why not just wait until cataclysm?

    goodbye 10-man gold runs...

    the system itself is ,,ok", but why now?!
    It's a great idea actually, putting aside the whole "test it before cata" thing.

    What is the biggest change this is bringing about? Time being free'd up. Today you kinda/sorta/have to run stuff twice for your main char. After the patch, you only run it once. This causes an issue where you have more time on your hands.

    Most of us have alts that don't get enough play time. *Ding* ... those alts are now going to get more play time. Sucks if you have a single char and extra time today cause you will have more free time in the very near future.

    And that is why I think this is great ... more play time for my alts. Beside the fact that I am pretty tired of running the content anyways. I counted my runs of gunship the other day on my chars ... 130+ times I have done that encounter.
  1. Sydien's Avatar
    I understand that some people don't progress as quickly as others, but complaining about how this will change your farming of year old content is just silly. Clock is running out, simple as that. I find screaming into a pillow rather effective. Also, strong drink and narcotics.

    As for the new system, I think it's fine and dandy. Opens up more accessibility. Probably won't affect my raiding at all. Other than people not understanding it.
  1. Grubby's Avatar
    I read the wall of text and I still find it confusing, but sure it will make sense when in use
  1. sidebar's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Scripts View Post
    Lets say you kill marrowgar on heroic, have disconnect issues, etc., and can't continue with that group. You then join the same raid group above a couple of days later at boat (and its a different raid ID than your original group) because you need the badges/bored/etc. They see your achievements, and say "OMG, A Kingslayer, Turn on Boat for us!!!!" You'll have to tell them, "Sorry, no dice. I killed a heroic boss already this week with a different group." They will then say, "Thanks for nothing, jerk" and kick you from the group.
    Actually, I think you could turn on Heroic at that point, based upon what was posted. You join a group with 24 other people that have not downed a boss on heroic, you, as the newly appointed RL and keeper of the sacred heroic raid ID should be able to turn Heroic bosses on / off from that point forward as long as nobody else has a heroic boss id for that run.

    Right? at least that is how I read it. You just can't *mix* heroic boss id's. I am starting to think of it as an STD in that you can share your STD with others that don't have an STD yet, you just can't share yours with others that have their own STD :-)
  1. Scot's Avatar
    I love all the people talking out their ass about how loot will work when this is implemented in 4.0.1. Are you all wotlk kiddies who have no idea how a pre expansion patch works? Raid bosses downed after them are meaningless. They don't need to rebalance 10 man fights if they drop 264 gear because it doesn't matter. Once 4.0.1 comes out the only reason for raiding is to get better leveling gear. That is unless your guild wants to be "that guy" who puts in their recruitment that they downed H LK but forgets to mention it was post 4.0.1 like many guilds like to do with KJ and 3.0.
  1. rayden54's Avatar
    So, until they implement the balanced loot system, my alt will be forced to raid 25-mans ONLY because they drop better loot.

    They need to keep the 10 and 25 man raids separate until they reach the point where the raids are designed to be merged.
  1. Cragox's Avatar
    this is so amazing, looking forward to it!
  1. Millennía's Avatar
    So do 10 man heroic and 25 man heroic ICC drop ilvl 277?

    <Mod Edit: NO!!!>
  1. Adyssa's Avatar
    I said earlier that I agreed with others that the system should allow you to kill any boss repeatedly, but only be eligible for loot/points on your first kill, but having thought further on this I've come up with ways that it could be heavily exploited. This is especially true for the more hardcore guilds.

    The best players could sell themselves to other guilds, especially tanks and healers. Having trouble on that final boss? Whisper the best guild on the server and see if a tank a healer would be willing to help for a few thousand gold. Or, they could form up 9 man groups and sell the last spot, running the person's fresh raid ID for them. Need a few items off the first 4 bosses? Pay a guild to run you through, all drops guaranteed to be yours.

    Having thought of these scenarios, I can understand why Blizzard is avoiding this.
  1. Rezman's Avatar
    I do not like this. So much for my attempts on Heroic Lich King 10man and doing the normal weekly 25man guild raids. Thanks Blizzard.
  1. Zippy's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Ranor View Post
    tl;dr - R.I.P. 10man raiding unless all you do is do 10mans or alt runs.
    Um... Wrong.

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