Cataclysm -- Justice Point Drop Quantities

Originally Posted by basics

Probably when tier 12 hits you will be able to use normal points for tier 11 just like it is now.

basics.

Actually if you look at how its set up.

Tier 11 is buy-able via valor points, however only the hands legs and chest is, the shoulders and helm requires a token (look at the picture). So im assuming everyone can get 3/5 eventually if they don't raid but they won't have the shoulders and helm to show off epeens of their t11.

So i'm guessing if it moved onto t12, it'll remain like that JP can only buy those 3, you still require to progress into the raid in order to get the other two, heres hoping theres no reskins of the tier pieces

I'm also hoping t12 would be hard enough that you require atleast near-full t12 ilevel gear to finish say the last 3 bosses unless you're in a highly skilled raid, that forces people to farm t11 content in order to 'attempt' t12 successfully

I do agree with them awarding 25mans to gain more JP than 10mans but I dont understand the 10man JP rewards vs Heroic Dungeon Bosses/Daily Norm/Daily HC Dungeons. People will just farm dungeons all day!

Maybe up 25man awards even more, say 150jp and then up 10mans between 100-125jp?

But as always there will be pro's and con's!

Originally Posted by BigGann

Does this mean we can't go back and finish tier sets that we didn't get completed? That sucks if so...

Nah dont worry if you gone to the ptr at all you would see that you can buy icc gear with justice points before cata comes out aka with just over cap you can have full 251 tier set
cause its 1.1k JP for helm chest pants then a lil less for gloves shoulders

Originally Posted by Eleri

Still looking for an answer to this, please. The only kid who looked at my post called me an idiot, ignoring the fact that Cata is two months away and some of us still need something to do in those two months.

from what i seen on the ptr if it cost 95 frost for item X then it will cost 1100 JP for the same item X

Originally Posted by Wingwraith

wtf? If 10 and 25 share lockouts and loot, why are the JP rewards different?

1) ICC/RS does not share lockout, it continues to be the raid form you know now, cataclysm raiding will share lockout
2) they said, they want to award more gear in 25m for extra complexity getting 25 men together, but it will be exactly same gear you would get in 10m
and by more gear in world without emblems they clearly mean more points which is also answer to your question

But those justice Points we earn BEFORE the expansion can not be used to buy 346 Gear once cataclysm ships, can it?
That'd be ridicolous...

To everyone saying non raiders need to be able to farm heroics for the prior tier so they can get into raiding post release: did none of you play this game during vanilla and BC? I didn't start raiding until T2, and the grind to get my FR gear for MC, and then get my T1, so I could get into a guild doing T2 content, was long and time consuming. But that same grind made me value my gear 500% more than running a heroic once a day for a few months. Not to mention at that point there were guilds that suited just about everyone's abilities. If you weren't quite good enough for upper tier raiding, you just stayed in a guild that did lesser raids. If you didn't raid, you stayed in a leveling/social guild. Why do the social players need to raid and obtain tier? I decided to raid after seeing a warrior standing in SW wearing full T1, and I though it was the most amazing thing ever. At that point I had two purples, one of them my Krol Blade, and the other a drop I had gotten after lucking into a UBRS run. Epics were just that, epic. Epics are the new blues, and we're all worse off for it.

And to those claiming their lack of time is why they need this ability to obtain easy epics and tier: Skunkworks (US). No more than 8 hours a week of raiding and they've downed H LK25. If you're running a heroic once a day you already have close to that amount of free time to spend in WoW. And if you don't have that amount of free time, you're never going to raid, so you have zero need for raiding gear other than to make heroics easier, thereby letting you farm them faster for more gear to farm them faster. You're doing the same content over and over, do you really need full tier to do that?

And honestly, at the end of the day, I don't care who has what piece of gear, regardless of how difficult or easy it is to obtain. But the side effect of the daily heroic giving valor points is once again ensuring that raiders are going to need to run the heroic every day to remain competitive. That extra tier piece over 1 month across 10/25 players is considerable. Anyone that is lacking in time should hate this, because if you DO want to start raiding, it ensures that not only do you need to put in raid time, you need to run a daily heroic to stay in a progression guild. I hated it in T10/11, and apparently we'll continue the same grind. Honestly, if Blizz wants everyone to have some tier gear, just reward everyone with that 75 Valor points every day for logging in and checking our mail. Everyone wins right?

Originally Posted by Gilian

Cataclysm daily Heroic dungeon -- 75 Valor Points


And failed again.

Sadly you don't say why a daily reward (like 2 Frost emblems now) is a failure to you. Or do you dislike the fact that people who are not as elite as you are also are able to get 1 epic piece, just not with raiding but with consistent saving over a long period of time?

If you think that's wrong, then I can tell you that you won't be a member of MY raids.

---------- Post added 2010-10-07 at 07:51 AM ----------

Originally Posted by kcquipor

So you can farm now till limit of 4000 points on lvl80 and use them for 85 items ?

Yes, you can and it is not even hard. I did a calculation and if you start today you only need to do ICC-10/25 4 bosses, 1 daily heroic and 1 daily dungeon to get your "weekly" fix. Most do more so getting 4000 points by 07-Dec-2010 is not really a problem. And I am not even counting any conversion in which makes it even easier.

Mmmmm Old content crucifixion... Oh great, I knew they'd ruin Raiding, they lied about the 10/25. I remember an earlier post saying that 10 and 25 are gonna have shared loot, and a shared lockout, and just become a preference of how many people you raid with. I guess that was a big fat lie, because 25m are gonna reward more Points now.

And I also love how we're gonna have to farm the same Raids for 3 months before we get Geared, I quit.

Originally Posted by Sagngrael

Epics were just that, epic. Epics are the new blues, and we're all worse off for it.

But the side effect of the daily heroic giving valor points is once again ensuring that raiders are going to need to run the heroic every day to remain competitive.

Why is it such a bad thing for people who aren't hardcore raiders to get epic gear? If you raid consistently you will always have better gear than the social players who do their daily heroics and raid a little bit here and there. I understand your complaint about having to run a heroic every day to get the max amount of badges/points, I don't like that either but I am under the impression that there was going to be a cap on how many valor points you can earn per week. If that is the case then as long as you're killing a certain number of raid bosses per week, you don't have to worry about that.

For those complaining that 25man :"only gets 105", that's a 40% increase over the 75 given out in 10man, and you're getting more actual pieces of loot too. In ICC, you're getting the same amount of loot and badges, so it's definitely an upgrade, for getting 15 more people together. Also, to those complaining that you can buy tier from farming heroic dungeons, that's Blizzard's whole point to this. If you recall the end of the last expansion, Blizzard went on record saying that the reason they put in the widespread nerf to all raid boss' physical dmg and health, it was to make it easier to get most people the same equivalent gear, to prepare them for the expansion (since it's going to be outdated in 3 levels anyway).

Also, for those who are complaining that we'll all have 4000 points to spend on the justice point items in cataclysm, you're forgetting something. With each new tier coming out, your Valor (raid) points will get converted to Justice points (at a less than 1:1 ratio), and your current Justice points are either dropping or taking a hit. If you max out your Justice points, you're not going to have 4000 to spend as soon as you hit 85. You're going to have a fraction of them available to you at 85. Sure, you might have enough points to buy 1 piece, but that's going to be it, most likely, and that's decent, but definitely not a HUGE advantage or something to whine/troll about.

Originally Posted by Ikkatsu

Dude!

what does mine say?!?

Originally Posted by Dayle

Mmmmm Old content crucifixion... Oh great, I knew they'd ruin Raiding, they lied about the 10/25. I remember an earlier post saying that 10 and 25 are gonna have shared loot, and a shared lockout, and just become a preference of how many people you raid with. I guess that was a big fat lie, because 25m are gonna reward more Points now.

And I also love how we're gonna have to farm the same Raids for 3 months before we get Geared, I quit.

Sorry to say, but you are quite frankly looking very ridiculous with your doomsday QQ. The 30 additional Valor Points are rewarded to 25-man raiders because they do not want to kill 25-man raiding (because it IS easier to find 10 people to raid with, rather than 25, which is simple math).
The raids still share loot and lockout, and the last part of your QQ doesn't even make sense. Having to farm to get geared? ... Is that new?

Oh and if you want to quit, go ahead, nobody's going to try and stop you; I'm just trying to invalidify your mindless QQ.

This sux ass tbh.
We're gonna get valor points from running daily hcs? -.- omg

At least dont let tiers be accessible through the valor point npc then!

I hate to create an account and use caps but:

THERE IT WILL BE A CAP FOR VALOR POINTS WEEKLY!!

So you can do 10 man and a few heroics and you get the same than 25.

Actually i think the cap will be betwen 1200-1500 VP per week.

(full aproximately 15 bosses run 10 man = 1125 VP)
(full aproximately 15 bosses run 25 man = 1575 VP)

My english is not my primary language sorry

PD: I dont remember the exact number of all raid bosses

Seems the ideal thing to do would be to grind WotLK Heroic dungeons until 81 in order to get a jump start on your justice points.

---------- Post added 2010-10-07 at 11:37 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Emorium

as long as you can't buy tiers with those points it's alright

Soon as the season rolls over, you will be able to buy tier with those points as the valor list becomes the second season justice list.

Originally Posted by VanishO2

Or someone that simply doesn't care about raiding have gear that they don't need for heroics?

If you raid, you get a shot at raiding gear (because you need that to down raid bosses you know?), if you don't raid, why would you want/need it for 5man?

That's the whole problem with the system. That's what support ppl only caring about purples/gear/showoff and thinking that raids are only worth up to the 1st token boss (hello "sry, gotta go, emergency" ppl who leave raids after the saurfang token rolls are done).

Because once raiding starts, you people decked out in T11 will be bitching at anyone who can't keep up with you. Raiding DPS will keep pulling aggro off of non-raiding tanks while simultaneously bitching about how long their queue time is. Non-raiding healers won't be able to heal raiding DPS who don't pay attention to boss mechanics because they think it's beneath them while simultaneously bitching about queue times. Non-raiding DPS who don't do a bazillion DPS will get ridiculed and vote kicked despite the fact that this is their only way to get the gear that would keep them from being vote kicked.

That's why they need raiding level gear.

I know a guy who has, without raiding, gotten 4PCT10, the belt, the cape, and bought a broken hilt to get a 251 weapon. He never does vault, and never does the weekly raid. He put tremendous amounts of work into gearing his toon up. Why? Not to show off, cause he doesn't, but because it makes him happy. I guarantee he's put in more hours than most raiders at a comparable gear level, and I say he deserves to be happy with his gear.

Tank threat buff is TOO MUCH! Same as NOW?? NO put the threat game back to TBC level and EVERYONE will be happy! The bads will learn, the goods will finally have a good game.

Originally Posted by Eleri

As someone who's still working on gearing up a new main when 4.0.1 hits, I'm curious--how much do, say, T9 and T10 cost in Justice Points?

save them badges for cata

soon, that event will start and u can get some nice 251 starter gear

---------- Post added 2010-10-07 at 02:06 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Phuxx

what does mine say?!?

AWESOME!

what does mine say!?

---------- Post added 2010-10-07 at 02:10 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Raqubor

Tank threat buff is TOO MUCH! Same as NOW?? NO put the threat game back to TBC level and EVERYONE will be happy! The bads will learn, the goods will finally have a good game.

as a tank, i think i would absolutely hate to have to worry about a rogue trixing me

i get that rogues have only one other thing to worry about(poisons on weapons)

call me old fashioned, i guess

This is a pretty typical "let them eat cake" response that we have come to know and hate from Blizzard. I swear on a stack of Bibles, the customer service, or lack thereof, will be this games undoing. Cataclysm isn't anywhere near polished. I'd say they will need at least 3 months to get things right. If they release this POS with the current level of hatred the company has for the player-base, with the lack of timely communication about the state of bugs and imbalances, coupled with the anemic in-game Game Master system and ABYSSMAL phone support, there will be such a huge January backlash against the once mighty Blizzard that the entire industry will sit up and take notice.