Cataclysm -- Justice Point Drop Quantities

Originally Posted by SuperPrincessPeach

Sorry dude I work 60 hours a week and am currently enrolled in classes and still manage to find time to play video games and raids, that excuse is old. If you can only play 30 minutes a day, you don't deserve the same gear as someone who raids a couple hours a week. If your life is so time constraining that you can't play video games, why do you deserve the same gear as people who do? If you can't make the time to raid, WHY DO YOU NEED RAID GEAR? I think that's a good question.

Why does it matter? Its not like they'll be taking your raid spots or leeching your achievements? It just seems like getting the angry for the sake of getting angry.

Originally Posted by Vasti

SO CONCLUSION:
Farming heroics for justice points on live is time wasted since after 4.01 the same amount of heroicsfarming will give you more Justice Points.

Yes, but i have 9 level 80 toons. I won't get them all capped as i think the JPs will be more important to have on the toons that will reach 85 pretty fast so they can hold their own with the group that is full of "fresh" 85s... Later on as people get more gear it is easier to beat the heroic content even if you don't reach 85 with a 4k JP cushion (and you might already have more means to get crafted gear too).

So i just pick my pace at the moment and do a few a day for fun.

Originally Posted by SuperPrincessPeach

There's no problem with this if you can BUY ITEMS FROM THE PREVIOUS TIER. I have no problem with being able to get points for Tier 11 if people are in Tier 12 content, but people should not be getting the same raid level gear as people who are actually raiding 10 and 25 man raids for doing 5 man dungeons, that's rediculous.

What we're saying is that it will take them about a month of daily farming -each day- to get 1 item.

We're talking 1 epic Current Tiered item per month.

When you're in the next tier.. then only will they have a quick access to your previous tier. Which makes perfect sense for people that want to catch up to raiding and join a guild. As the previous content is also what you're raiding in. But again, you have access to the next tier, and they don't.

Personal raiding experience is that I get about 3 items a week.
Valor token saving will get you 1 a month.

How does this in any way feel unfair?

Originally Posted by MrCobaltBlue

Why does it matter? Its not like they'll be taking your raid spots or leeching your achievements? It just seems like getting the angry for the sake of getting angry.

No one's getting angry, and you can use your same logic for why you don't need to get the gear. Why does it matter if you get raid gear from heroics, it's not like you'll be raiding, so why does it need to happen?

Originally Posted by MrCobaltBlue

Why does it matter? Its not like they'll be taking your raid spots or leeching your achievements? It just seems like getting the angry for the sake of getting angry.

people that dont play much shouldnt get the same gear as people that play alot. why would they need the gear when they dont play ? its just blizzard wanting to please the casual gamer scum.

Originally Posted by SuperPrincessPeach

Probably because if all you can farm is heroic dungeons, and you don't raid, why do you need raid gear?

Raids should give points for raiding gear, heroics should not give points for raiding gear. Heroics don't require raiding gear.

"Reason not the need"

Who cares what people need, what they want is a way of advancing their character, doing more dps/hps/tps. The only way they can do that assuming they are pretty proficient is better gear.

The whole point of an RPG is to advance your character, if their are people who can't raid for whatever reason you want to tell them that it's game over at level 85.

Thank god Blizzard don't think like you.

(FYI, I'm a raider and I wholeheartedly support people getting better items as the end-game progresses. What pisses me off is that I'll still feel required to run dailies on all my toons )

---------- Post added 2010-10-06 at 06:49 PM ----------

Originally Posted by oBLACKIECHANoo

people that dont play much shouldnt get the same gear as people that play alot. why would they need the gear when they dont play ? its just blizzard wanting to please the casual gamer scum.

You're an idiot, try to think before you open your mouth (and if it takes so long that flies are getting in you should probably just quit).

Originally Posted by Aberration

Does the 'daily heroic' mean just the first for the day, or as many as you want?

Makes more sense for it to be just once a day.

I think it's quite obvious, and now that I read it, I realize that I missed that as well, I thought every Heroic awards VP.. I'm fine with the daily awarding VP
To answer your question, yes, only the first Heroic of that day will award you VP, the rest will award JP.

Originally Posted by petrefax

"Reason not the need"

Who cares what people need, what they want is a way of advancing their character, doing more dps/hps/tps. The only way they can do that assuming they are pretty proficient is better gear.

The whole point of an RPG is to advance your character, if their are people who can't raid for whatever reason you want to tell them that it's game over at level 85.

Thank god Blizzard don't think like you.

(FYI, I'm a raider and I wholeheartedly support people getting better items as the end-game progresses. What pisses me off is that I'll still feel required to run dailies on all my toons )

---------- Post added 2010-10-06 at 06:49 PM ----------



You're an idiot, try to think before you open your mouth (and if it takes so long that flies are getting in you should probably just quit).

hahaha. who the fuck asked you ? fucking fat cunt, try use fucking logic then read my post you prick.

Originally Posted by SuperPrincessPeach

No one's getting angry, and you can use your same logic for why you don't need to get the gear. Why does it matter if you get raid gear from heroics, it's not like you'll be raiding, so why does it need to happen?

Ok, so lets say you make $100,000 a year and you buy a brand new Porsche. And I make $25,000 a year and I buy the same model/year Porsche years later. Do I not deserve the Porsche because I don't make $100k/yr? Do I not need the Porsche because I make $25k/yr?

Originally Posted by oBLACKIECHANoo

people that dont play much shouldnt get the same gear as people that play alot. why would they need the gear when they dont play ? its just blizzard wanting to please the casual gamer scum.

lolumadbro? The sun called, he hasn't seen you in a while and wants to get together sometime.

They should do away with the daily heroic BS, imo.

Originally Posted by oBLACKIECHANoo

hahaha. who the fuck asked you ? fucking fat cunt, try use fucking logic then read my post you prick.

self-owned I think, well done.

Originally Posted by guice

You confused me here. Where does it say you won't get JP past 80? Normal Cataclysm dungeons will award you JP. WRATH dungeons and heroics will no longer award points past (at? or past?) 81. That's what GC is saying. This prevents people, lvl 83 or so, from doing 5 min Wrath heroics just for JP. Or running a quick 30 min ICC just for JP. It's to make you run Cataclysm points for your justice points.

Upon earning enough JP, you can very much go back and buy old Tier armor with those points.

You're right of course, disregard that statement

lolumadbro? The sun called, he hasn't seen you in a while and wants to get together sometime.

you are a fucking retard, cunts like you cause companys to dumb down their games for your patheticly low i.q's !

I'm a raider as well and I support people progressing their characters as well, but players who don't raid should not get the same gear as players who do.

They can easily make gear sets and other items lower level than raid gear that you can get for doing heroics, but just simply giving raid gear for people who aren't raiding is silly.

Originally Posted by Jin84

That means we're guaranteed 3-4 blues at 85 as long we max the JP.

2~3 seems more reasonable.

Originally Posted by SuperPrincessPeach

No one's getting angry, and you can use your same logic for why you don't need to get the gear. Why does it matter if you get raid gear from heroics, it's not like you'll be raiding, so why does it need to happen?

As a personal experience from Alts:

Heroics Gearscore and DPS. I've been kicked from heroics for having a too low Gearscore, or because my DPS was so low compared to the fully raidgeared DPS that they said I was slowing the group down.

Now I'm not saying I perfectly know how to play that alt class, Its exactly that, an Alt..

I agree that you technically don't need raidgear if you don't need raids. But you'll never be able to compete and join a guild in your Heroics gear either that way..

Say for instance there is a new guild starting up in Cata.

They have all people in fresh gear.. then they tier up twice. Bringing them to tier 12.

Now I rejoin WoW after a 1 year break. And I try to join that guild.
What can I bring of value to that guild apart from my sunshine attitude? I'd say not much. And it'll take them a shitload of patience to drag me along and gear me up.

Or am I missing how this would be done otherwise?
I joined WoW when Naxx was released. I got a full dungeon set 2, and tried to join.. but no guild would let me in due to my gear.

Originally Posted by MrCobaltBlue

Ok, so lets say you make $100,000 a year and you buy a brand new Porsche. And I make $25,000 a year and I buy the same model/year Porsche years later. Do I not deserve the Porsche because I don't make $100k/yr? Do I not need the Porsche because I make $25k/yr?

If you're making Taco Bell salary you shouldn't be buying a Porsche. Sorry.

Originally Posted by guice

Not exactly. It's to stop people from getting so far behind, they're unable to catch up IF they decided to raid. Think of it this way; somebody comes in now and wants to raid ICC. They just finished heroics. How are they going to catch up to be ICC ready? They sure enough can't go through Naxx -> Ulduar -> ToC then ICC like the rest of us raiders did.

It's a method to allow everybody, raider and non-alike, to get to the same playing field. This is what Blizzard wants. Casuals be *able* to gain that level, even if they don't raid. To put it another way, Blizzard does not want to lock out anybody from obtaining Tier # gear.

By doing the new dungeon/heroics that usually have gear of the same ilvl of the previous raid? By increasing the number of drops of previous raids, so you're ready faster than "an entire patch later"? By finally throwing the former tier into the points system instead of the current one?

Players that doesn't care about raiding would get their new toys and their new content/challenge and at the same time the ppl who need to catch up can do it. Seems more fair than just giving current tier to everyone from everything. You don't get player's interest by giving everything anymore than showing a path that he can follow into the game/story...

Just imagine (forget about the current ilvl diferences between raid sizes) that normal ICC5 would give you 232 gear and heroic ICC5 would give you 245 with the end boss giving you a few 251 pieces (and both dungeons are challenging, like cata dungeons seems to be again). You don't raid and you're not sad that you're still sporting your old 200/226 gear from previous heroics in 3.3.

You do raid, but you missed 3.2 or even 3.1 patch. You can go to ToC, mix what you get there (including T9 bonuses wich should be on par or a little better than just equipping non-set 232/245/251 gear) with what you get from the new ICC5/Heroic ICC5 dungeons and you're set to start ICC raiding without the need to give 264 gear from heroics.

Originally Posted by SuperPrincessPeach

No one's getting angry, and you can use your same logic for why you don't need to get the gear. Why does it matter if you get raid gear from heroics, it's not like you'll be raiding, so why does it need to happen?

Because everyone needs a goal of some sort. Once one goalpost has been met, there should be another one beyond that one, and another, and another. One of the old problems with heroics and heroic-only players is that they would meet a goalpost (getting all the heroic-level gear available) and then... nothing. They'd just be stuck there, at that level, their bags/character slots filling with Badges of Justice and Emblems of Heroism with absolutely nothing to spend them on and no incentive to keep running heroics (incentive in the sense of a goal to work towards). Then WOTLK kicked it into high gear, and heroic-only players had tons of goals to work towards. They could get that tier piece! They could buy a new ring! To be honest, the gear itself is secondary; what matters is the feeling of having something to work towards, to improve yourself with. THAT is something that NEEDS to be part of any heroic system.

Now, does it absolutely have to be tier gear and raid-quality items? Not necessarily. I think it could also work with expensive profession mats (thus making heroic-only runners a serious presence in server economy), or pets and titles, or something else fun. But the fact is that you must give heroic players something to try for once they've finished their gearing.

Out of curiosity, what would YOU introduce to the game to give heroic players a moveable goalpost and something to work towards on a constant level?

all too easy gear.