Update - Added today's blue posts!

Patch 4.0.1 - PTR Build 13156
A new build is being deployed on PTR realms. Also, don't miss today's announcement:



Spell Changes
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

Death Knight (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
Blood

Druid (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
Feral
  • Bear Form now increases threat by 200%, up from 125%.

Hunter (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
Survival

Pet Abilities

Paladin (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
Holy

Protection

Warlock (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
Destruction
  • Improved Soul Fire effect now has a 15 sec cooldown, down from 30 sec.
  • Conflagrate now deals fire damage equal to 60% of your Immolate's periodic damage on the target, down from 100%.

Warrior (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
Protection

Costs of Heirlooms in 4.0.1
Originally Posted by Bashiok (Blue Tracker)
The current cost of 1-80 hierlooms on the PTR is much higher then it should be. Teir 10-251 gear costs 695/1100 JP, whereas the heirlooms cost 2700/3500 JP.

Can you confirm that we can still do the ToC dailies in ice crown for those badges and buy heirloom items with them after 4.01/cata is released?
They'll still be available and purchased using Justice Points, and Justice Points will be the currency that drops from ... pretty much everything. Anything that dropped any emblem or badge anywhere will drop Justice Points (as long as you're of the correct level range). (Source)

On the current PTR build, they still cost Champion's Seals at the Argent Pavilion.
Yes, and they will continue to. Confirmed that there are no planned changes for the Argent Tournament heirlooms prices or otherwise.

Blue Posts
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Level 80 Balancing in 4.0.1
Here's the deal: level 80 is going to be a little crazy. There is a reason we're going to end the PvP season before the next patch goes live. There is a reason we had to make PvE adjustments, such as Chill of the Throne. Critical new abilities aren't available until higher level. Combat ratings are much higher than they will be once everyone starts leveling, and likely higher than they ever will be again. Health ratios are much lower than they will be with higher level gear.

We're not totally throwing up our hands at level 80, but it's also far less of a concern than level 85. If there is truly broken stuff going on, we'll fix it, but some things will also fix themselves once you can level again.

The "lame duck session" before a new expansion goes live is always a little odd and exciting. My advice is to chill a little, sit back, and watch Deathwing destroy your world. (Source)

Tank Threat buff in latest build
We did recently buff the threat generated by Defensive Stance and its equivalents.

Note that with this change, the threat generated by tanks will be about the same as it is on live, which is that a tank can generate about three times as much threat as a dps class.

On live, remember that classes like rogues have an innate threat reduction, warriors have reduced threat in Battle or Berserker Stance, and mages had talents to reduce threat generated. We removed all of those. Until this recent change, that left tank threat slightly low relative to live. We hoped Vengeance would have made up for the loss of Tricks, Misdirect and (to a lesser extent) Vigilance, but in retrospect we think we were still underestimating how much they were buoying tank threat.

If you never used Tricks or Misdirect, then threat should feel about the same in Cataclysm as it does on live. If you use Tricks and Misdirect on live, then you might need Vengeance stacked before you feel the same, but at the same time Tricks and Misdirect still work just fine for establishing initial aggro before Vengeance has a chance to stack anyway. (Source)

AE Tanking and Crowd Control
it seems like Blizzard wants to take tanks back to the Vanilla days of "Tank 1 mob and CC the rest".
We think doing that sometimes and AE'ing sometimes is preferable to the world of AE'ing everything all the time. If all you are doing is trying to process dungeons as fast as possible to get to the badges, then I can understand that mentality, but it's not one we want to foster. (Source)

Paladin (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
Retribution and Crowd Control
We think there is a risk that Ret is overly susceptible to spammed snares or roots. One idea we are trying (standard no promises) is to let Cleanse remove snares or roots when a Ret paladin uses it on himself. That implementation would keep one of the most important uses of Cleanse, without letting Ret strip away buffs and debuffs, which is something we're really trying to clamp down on (for everyone).

We also discussed the oft-suggested idea of making Freedom not dispellable when used on yourself, but our concern there was a Ret would never ever Freedom anyone else and face the dispel risk, so something that was once group utility just becomes a self buff. (As I have referenced before, one of our goals around Ret PvP is to make the spec more of a team player and less of a guy who has an answer for everything.) We still think undispellable Freedom, even for Ret only, is just too powerful. (Source)

Single Target/AE Healing
My point, and maybe it was said a little too tersely, is that Pallies are BY DESIGN supposed to have slightly weaker AoE heals than everyone else, with the counter-balance that their single-target (tank) healing is slighly stronger than everyone else. If you don't like that, then you will be much happier in the longer term rerolling a different healer, since Blizz does not seem like they are budging on this viewpoint.
It's not that we want paladins to be single target healers. It's that we felt like we had to give the healers very similar single target spells (a decision that many healers object to, I should point out) so we are loathe to just give paladins Chain Heal or Circle of Healing. Yes, Holy Radiance and Ray of Light (and even Beacon) are pretty unusual spells. That doesn't mean they have to be terrible by definition. We understand that it's pretty common for the community, upon finding something wanting in their class, to look across the aisle at another class and say "Ooh, I want that!" It's a challenge to keep the 5 healing specs unique, but it's also very important to us. The OP calls those gimmicks. We call it trying to avoid homogenization. (Source)

Warlock (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
Conflagration change in latest build
We added the dot back when the burst was too high, but it was always kind of weird to consume a dot to cause a dot, and we figured now was a great time to fix that.

Go hop on the PTR. Cast Conflag. You should be happy. (Source)

Conflagration scaling
Conflag behaving a little differently with regard to haste is cool, and certainly better than the alternative, which is that it doesn't care about haste at all.

So then the question is whether it does too much damage with high haste. It might at level 80 and probably won't at level 85. (Source)

Shadowbolt
He's been doing that a lot to us lately.. "Shadow Bolt will be affliction's filler when not refreshing dots etc." But it has been proven that DL is indeed better than SB as afflictions filler on the ptr/beta.
Again, in this case, my information is more up to date, and I predict you'll be using Shadow Bolt. (Source)
This article was originally published in forum thread: Patch 4.0.1 - PTR Build 13156 started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 199 Comments
  1. quras's Avatar
    Don't give me that. There are so many damn games to play it's not even funny. I'm sure you could find ONE to that tickles your fancy.
    Sad? Yes it is and still true. I just have not found a game to replace wow and Ive tried a few FPS but I can't see paying $50 + bucks for a game that you complete inside 2 weeks. I've even tried a few other MMO's but none feel like they are a long term playing game. There OK but not outstanding.

    However, what blizzard is now asking of me now just crossed the line in my book.

    blizzard is asking you to not only to continue to pay them but continue to pay them for a game they know to be screwed up in numerous ways. Might not be totally broken but if you have been on the PTR or beta at all and know what the differences are then most would come to the same conclusion I think.

    blizzard has now asked too much of me as a gamer. Asking me to play a screwed up game, pay them money to play the screwed up game and to do it for almost 2 additional months in the same content you have been playing for 10 months.

    That is simply to much. Maybe it is time for me to cancel cause I can't see me continuing to play the same old tired content with screwed up mechanics and balance issues and numerous other problems that wont get fixed till the expansion is released.

    I wish I had reached that "quitting point" like you did months back and it wouldn't even be an issue now. I finally got there so thats something.
  1. mmoc3d7f422663's Avatar
    conflag does 50% dmg of immo not 60%.

    Unless it totally ignores glyph of immolate when calculating. I get precisely 50% dmg of my immolate.

    http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread....70047386&sid=1
  1. lunaspike's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by DrgnDancer View Post
    It's call "clarification". It's when you make statement, but make a slight error in that statement and then someone tells you the correct information. Blue have an inside track on what going on, but expecting every single person to remember every single detail perfectly is a bit much, don't you think? He thought all emblems had been replaced with JPs, but then someone internal reminded him that they decided to keep Champion Seals.
    Expecting someone to do their fcking job is wrong now? Either you are one of two people:
    1. You pull up to a restaurant and order some food. They give you the wrong order, but you say "hey they are busy, they have plenty of orders. I will just take my cheeseburger and leave even though I ordered a big mac combo".

    OR

    2. You are a blizz fanboy that needs to get up off your knees and wipe your mouth.


    As for hunters, they should be buffed but not a joke increase on trap times. While that does help some with pvp, (apparently it's hard to walk around the brightly glowing trap on the ground) I hope they buff bm more. That spec has just been horrible through wrath compared to the other two. I hope they put it at least equal.
  1. bisond's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by quras View Post
    Sad? Yes it is and still true. I just have not found a game to replace wow and Ive tried a few FPS but I can't see paying $50 + bucks for a game that you complete inside 2 weeks. I've even tried a few other MMO's but none feel like they are a long term playing game. There OK but not outstanding.

    However, what blizzard is now asking of me now just crossed the line in my book.

    blizzard is asking you to not only to continue to pay them but continue to pay them for a game they know to be screwed up in numerous ways. Might not be totally broken but if you have been on the PTR or beta at all and know what the differences are then most would come to the same conclusion I think.

    blizzard has now asked too much of me as a gamer. Asking me to play a screwed up game, pay them money to play the screwed up game and to do it for almost 2 additional months in the same content you have been playing for 10 months.

    That is simply to much. Maybe it is time for me to cancel cause I can't see me continuing to play the same old tired content with screwed up mechanics and balance issues and numerous other problems that wont get fixed till the expansion is released.

    I wish I had reached that "quitting point" like you did months back and it wouldn't even be an issue now. I finally got there so thats something.
    But you said you only wanted something til Cata came out right? Well you don't need to find a new MMO then. As for the $50+, use slickdeals.net. I have a collection of like 10 games I got on there when deals popped up. None of which I paid more than $20 for. Ex. Valkyria chronicles, Bioshock 2, etc.

    If you don't have a console, then steam has deals allll the time. They just had one for Left 4 Dead 1 and 2 for $10. Just look the deals and quality games are out there to tide you over until Cata.
  1. Nathiest's Avatar
    I love that Blizzard is soooooooooo concerned that a player might be a little too selfish in PLAYER VERSUS PLAYER!

    Ridiculous completely ridiculous.

    I also love that Blizz never considers getting rid of one thing, or the other -nope they get rid of both at the same time and then scratch their head when players get mad at them.

    Ret is too bursty. (fix burst with holy power)

    AND

    Ret has too much survivability. (fix with nerfs to cleans and etc.)

    ONE OR THE OTHER BLIZZ NOT BOTH! ugh!
  1. Dominating's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathiest View Post
    I love that Blizzard is soooooooooo concerned that a player might be a little too selfish in PLAYER VERSUS PLAYER!

    Ridiculous completely ridiculous.

    I also love that Blizz never considers getting rid of one thing, or the other -nope they get rid of both at the same time and then scratch their head when players get mad at them.

    Ret is too bursty. (fix burst with holy power)

    AND

    Ret has too much survivability. (fix with nurfs to cleans and etc.)

    ONE OR THE OTHER BLIZZ NOT BOTH! ugh!
    The thing is that both were big problems with Ret being overpowered in PvP. It was ridiculous to have a Ret to unload on you by popping Divine Storm's CD, CS, Judgement, DS, and finishing you off with HoW. There was no rotation for a Ret Paladin and the spec felt idiotic to play, as if you weren't doing anything but were killing everything. And it isn't fair to let them run around for ten seconds, invincible, while they decimate everything around them. Nerfs to bubbles and survivability abilities were needed to make the class less overpowered.
  1. Nathiest's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Dominating View Post
    The thing is that both were big problems with Ret being overpowered in PvP. It was ridiculous to have a Ret to unload on you by popping Divine Storm's CD, CS, Judgement, DS, and finishing you off with HoW. There was no rotation for a Ret Paladin and the spec felt idiotic to play, as if you weren't doing anything but were killing everything. And it isn't fair to let them run around for ten seconds, invincible, while they decimate everything around them. Nerfs to bubbles and survivability abilities were needed to make the class less overpowered.
    Once again it either one thing, or the other, but as usual they overly nerfed both and now Ret in pvp is nothing more then just a pun.

    Less OP is acceptable, but this, this is not acceptable!
  1. Moxal's Avatar
    I'd personally like to see heirloom prices not be in the 2000-3000 JP range until we at least have heroics that give 75 JP/boss.

    I have all the heirlooms I'd normally want, but lately I've been trying to fill in the blanks of what I don't have. Stuff like a second Bloodied Arcanite Reaper or a second Swift Hand of Justice.

    Starting a new warrior once 4.0.1 drops, so I can experience leveling in Azeroth one more time before Cataclysm begins. =)
  1. DrgnDancer's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by lunaspike View Post
    Expecting someone to do their fcking job is wrong now? Either you are one of two people:
    1. You pull up to a restaurant and order some food. They give you the wrong order, but you say "hey they are busy, they have plenty of orders. I will just take my cheeseburger and leave even though I ordered a big mac combo".

    OR

    2. You are a blizz fanboy that needs to get up off your knees and wipe your mouth.


    As for hunters, they should be buffed but not a joke increase on trap times. While that does help some with pvp, (apparently it's hard to walk around the brightly glowing trap on the ground) I hope they buff bm more. That spec has just been horrible through wrath compared to the other two. I hope they put it at least equal.
    No, actually I go up to the window and ask them to correct the error. In this case the error was corrected before I even asked! Sweet! People make mistakes. Even at work. I make mistakes. I bet you make mistakes. It happens. He made an error, he corrected himself. What do you do when the restaurant makes a small (infinitesimal really, this is like them giving you three packets of ketchup instead of the four you asked for) error? Scream at the person in the window until they cry or punch you? FFS, expect perfection and you're bound be disappointed.

    Edit to add:
    Quote Originally Posted by bisond View Post
    But you said you only wanted something til Cata came out right? Well you don't need to find a new MMO then. As for the $50+, use slickdeals.net. I have a collection of like 10 games I got on there when deals popped up. None of which I paid more than $20 for. Ex. Valkyria chronicles, Bioshock 2, etc.

    If you don't have a console, then steam has deals allll the time. They just had one for Left 4 Dead 1 and 2 for $10. Just look the deals and quality games are out there to tide you over until Cata.
    I second Steam for this. I got the entire "Jedi Knight" series of FPS games (From the original Dark Forces Win 3.11 game through Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy) for $40 off Steam. It downloads from their servers: no shipping, no going to the store, no muss no fuss. Sure they're oldish games, but they were tons of fun and all together probably add up up to a month or more of game play. Steam sells new stuff too (mostly Valve games, but they resell for others too), but the oldies are often really good deals.
  1. Alucard666's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Confessor Kahlan View Post
    I'm actually surprised people are complaining about the conflagration nerf, it was WAY too high. Immolate+Conflag would total about 30k damage. It was nerfed on live because it hit too hard. It's nerfed now because it hit too hard again.
    On another note, I was expecting frost mages to get a decent nerf, ice lance hits far too hard for a spammable ability in pvp.
    Don't worry they have plenty of time to do that 2....I put my money on the next class build will be about mage nerfs,I mean numbers tunning
  1. Zagnaphein's Avatar
    So by reading Here's the deal: level 80 is going to be a little crazy. There is a reason we're going to end the PvP season before the next patch goes live. There is a reason we had to make PvE adjustments, such as Chill of the Throne.

    Means the patch wont come next week? Or next week patch+pvp season ends?
  1. Tomhvk's Avatar
    Can some explain something to the people not playing on ptr/beta.

    When it is said it will be a 'lame duck' after patch 4.0 for pve, does that mean that the game will become easier, or harder, as far as ICC progress goes (currently on LK HC).

    Any information will be welcome
  1. Kiro's Avatar
    I hope no one has PVP planned one 4.0.1 hits. If you thought Ret was bad in that Wrath patch, now you have to deal with nearly all ranged blowing people up. I like their "things are balanced for 85" bullshit too. Because that's what it is, bullshit, as we've learned in the past. Whatever is powerful at 80, will still be powerful, potentially even more so with the new abilities, at 85. Stat scaling and health pools are nonsense. Example: 15-20k ice lances that are happening right now.

    This is just Blizzard saying, "yeah, we'll get to that balancing thing, we don't feel like it now is all".
  1. mmoc408d757808's Avatar
    Wow nice on the bear threat level.
  1. lunaspike's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by DrgnDancer View Post
    No, actually I go up to the window and ask them to correct the error. In this case the error was corrected before I even asked! Sweet! People make mistakes. Even at work. I make mistakes. I bet you make mistakes. It happens. He made an error, he corrected himself. What do you do when the restaurant makes a small (infinitesimal really, this is like them giving you three packets of ketchup instead of the four you asked for) error? Scream at the person in the window until they cry or punch you? FFS, expect perfection and you're bound be disappointed.
    Nope, I get my money back. I don't want you to fix it, you had your shot at my cash. Now someone else will get it. It's that simple. As for me, if I make a mistake I am expected to be held accountable for it. I will give you an example. On one of my exams the other day we were calculating something. I was .001 off the correct answer. The professor was talking to me and said "it's small, but it doesn't matter if you are .001 or 1 off. The patient is still dead because you made a mistake". He's right, it's that simple. I made a mistake and I had to be responsible for it. You know what though? Next time I will make damn sure I don't make that same mistake. If you start letting people off, and don't hold them accountable at their chosen profession where does it stop? Should I expect someone else to be less accountable than myself? No, I hold every professional to the same level. Now if he wasn't a professional it would be different. If he had replied with "I don't know, I will check" it would be different. When you give an answer though be prepared to be held responsible for that answer. Sure this is a silly thing to call him on, but him giving that answer when he wasn't sure was just as silly.

    When it is said it will be a 'lame duck' after patch 4.0 for pve, does that mean that the game will become easier, or harder, as far as ICC progress goes (currently on LK HC).
    The term lame duck in this case wouldn't really apply. What I think was meant by it is that after 4.0 till cataclysm there won't be anything else. What's more we will be stuck in a area in between. The skills are balanced around 85, but we won't be able to achieve 85 till the next expansion which is over a month after 4.0 launches. So some things will feel really under powered, and some will feel really over powered.
  1. davep's Avatar
    Sounds like 4.0.1 is coming Tuesday with that blue post.
  1. Kyocere's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Hexme View Post
    Cause 33k Conflag crits weren't op at all....

    As for paladins, holy got a nice buff and so far ret is alot more fun in pve, i mean yeah we suck at aoe but we do pretty well vs single target/boss fights, you know fights that matter. As for pvp i wont even comment since melee are pretty much boned in pvp vs casters.
    You mean after 5 years casters finally have the edge on melee?
  1. shnitterwitters's Avatar
    So I am confused at the increased threat generation. I thought Blizz didn't like how tanks could keep threat without really trying, is that what this new change is going to do?
  1. DrgnDancer's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by lunaspike View Post
    Nope, I get my money back. I don't want you to fix it, you had your shot at my cash. Now someone else will get it. It's that simple.
    Congratulations I guess... you're an asshole. If you would seriously demand your money back for a minor ordering error, then you are about my least favorite type of anal retentive.
    Quote Originally Posted by lunaspike View Post
    As for me, if I make a mistake I am expected to be held accountable for it.
    Of course you're held responsible, but there's different levels of mistakes and different levels of responsibility. In this case the poster made a slight error (in fact his overall statement was mostly correct, he just neglected this one relatively small portion of the question and he immediately corrected himself. It would be like me telling you that your local DNS information is in your /etc/host file and then coming back two minutes later and explaining that I typo-ed /etc/hosts. It's a minor error easily and quickly corrected.
    Quote Originally Posted by lunaspike View Post
    I will give you an example. On one of my exams the other day we were calculating something. I was .001 off the correct answer. The professor was talking to me and said "it's small, but it doesn't matter if you are .001 or 1 off. The patient is still dead because you made a mistake". He's right, it's that simple. I made a mistake and I had to be responsible for it.
    If it's an error capable of killing the patient it's not a small error. Simple as that. The number may be small, but on the orders of magnitude you're talking about it must be a significant error. In computers I deal with the same thing. Sometimes when dealing with very large or very small numbers apparently minor errors are important. When you're dealing with that you have to be more careful than normal. Being off by .001 when you're deling with something that has a margin for error of +/- .000001 is the same as being off by a 1000 when you're dealing with something that has a margin for error of +/- 10. It's the nature of highly specialized work. On the other hand if you're talking to a patient and say, "Let's try you on Metapaxamaxuim for a week... oh wait... I meant MetapaxaMINium, sorry. " no one is going to sue you for malpractice it. Now if you actually wrote the prescription for the wrong drug, and the patient got sicker or didn't improve, that's something else. But then again, there are reasons that surgeons, engineers, and other people whose mistakes can cost lives are both *very* well trained, and usually have someone else competent looking over their shoulder when they are doing their most potentially dangerous work.
    Quote Originally Posted by lunaspike View Post
    You know what though? Next time I will make damn sure I don't make that same mistake. If you start letting people off, and don't hold them accountable at their chosen profession where does it stop? Should I expect someone else to be less accountable than myself? No, I hold every professional to the same level. Now if he wasn't a professional it would be different. If he had replied with "I don't know, I will check" it would be different. When you give an answer though be prepared to be held responsible for that answer. Sure this is a silly thing to call him on, but him giving that answer when he wasn't sure was just as silly.
    Again. People misspeak, or think they know an answer but something changed and they didn't know about it. It happens. If you go through life expecting perfection, expect to be disappointed.
    Quote Originally Posted by lunaspike View Post
    The term lame duck in this case wouldn't really apply. What I think was meant by it is that after 4.0 till cataclysm there won't be anything else. What's more we will be stuck in a area in between. The skills are balanced around 85, but we won't be able to achieve 85 till the next expansion which is over a month after 4.0 launches. So some things will feel really under powered, and some will feel really over powered.
    Here we agree. There's no answer to whether it will be harder or easier. It depends entirely on what "it" you're referring to. Some stuff will be OP, some UP and there's no guess which until the patch hits.
  1. Kiro's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyocere View Post
    You mean after 5 years casters finally have the edge on melee?
    Whoa there, not all casters, Mages were always competitive in PVP, as well as Locks "most" of the time. Melee always should have the damage advantage to make up that they simply have to get in close to attack. They're not ranged where I sit back at a distance on my Lock or Mage and cast away, and if they get near me, I have many tools to get separation. So yes, melee should have damage on their side. Healing became really strong, and we all know how OP resto druids have been since S2, they have been the bigger offender in PVP.

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