MMO-Champion - Upcoming Tanking Changes Compilation, Blue Posts
Upcoming Tanking Changes - Compiled list
The tanking changes have been updated, I compiled all the changes from the past and new posts in a nice list.
Originally Posted by Zarhym (Blue Tracker)
Here are a few additional changes we are making which will be applied in patch 4.0.3a:


  • These changes are all slated for patch 4.0.3a when the shattering of Azeroth takes place, and are not currently implemented on live realms. Some of them may be active in the beta test – the Savage Defense change for example was applied via a hotfix to the beta realms recently.


Death Knight (Forums / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
  • Icebound Fortitude -- Damage reduction changed from 30% to 20% (or 60% to 50% talented). Cooldown still 2 minutes. Duration still 12 seconds.


Druid (Forums / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
  • Savage Defense is massively overpowered on beta and has been dealt with accordingly. Many of the reports of beta raid bosses two-shotting tanks were because that was how much damage the bosses needed to do in order to challenge Feral tanks. With less damage absorbed, the boss damage can be adjusted downwards. We've reduced the multiplier for attack power on the absorption effect (from 65% to 35%, still modified by mastery) and it no longer procs from periodic critical hits.

  • Bear Form -- Stamina bonus lowered from 20% to 10% and Heart of the Wild health bonus from 10% to 6%. Bear health should be close to plate tank health with this change.

  • Survival Instincts -- Damage reduction changed from 60% to 50%. Cooldown reduced from 5 minutes to 2 minutes. Duration still 12 seconds.


Paladin (Forums / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
  • Holy Shield will be changed to increase block value by 10% (40% total) instead of increasing block chance by 15%. Since this will cause Mastery to become more valuable, the amount of block granted by Mastery will be reduced to 2.25% block chance per point of Mastery, down from 3%.

  • Paladin tanks are not intended to go cap block as fast as they can. It’s fine if you want to do that, but we don’t treat it as “the new defense cap” and we don’t balance paladins assuming they have a 100% block chance. That is something the community identified as being not only possible, but likely, and one of the reasons we changed the way block works for paladins.

  • Guardian of Ancient Kings -- Damage reduction changed from 60% to 50%. Cooldown still 2 minutes (talented). Duration still 12 seconds.


Warrior (Forums / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
  • At level 85, the value of Shield Block decreases as block value generated by Mastery increases. To remedy this, we will convert overflow of block + avoidance that exceeds 100% into critical block chance instead. Along with that change, Shield Block will be reduced to +25% block chance (down from +100%), but this will still yield a net buff for most warriors. Also in response to this change, the amount of block and critical block provided by Mastery will be equalized. Finally, Mastery will now grant 1.5% block chance per point.

  • The new warrior Mastery is 1.5% block and 1.5% critical block per point of mastery.

  • Shield Block will spill over into critical block if any portion of the 25% would have been wasted because your block + dodge + parry is so high already. If you are somehow always over 100% (which will be pretty hard now), you only get the critical block when Shield Block is up. The intent is to make sure Shield Block isn't wasted, not to make sure you have mastery coming out your ears (or any other orifice in the facial region).

  • Shield Block is not intended to be a magic damage cooldown (neither is Blood Shield, which also is physical damage only). We don’t want to duplicate the exact same ability on every tank when we can avoid it. Bosses generally don’t spam out a lot of magic damage on short cooldowns. On the other hand, Shield Block has a much higher up-time than Barkskin. We still believe the Cataclysm raiding environment is going to be a lot less centered around tanks dying to spike damage than players currently experience at level 80. Mitigating a lot of damage to save healer mana can be very valuable in Cataclysm.

  • Vigilance -- No longer reduces damage by 3%, but will still reset Taunt cooldown and provide Vengeance for the warrior.

  • Glyph of Shield Wall -- Now buffs damage reduction by 10% (to 60%), but only adds 1 minute of cooldown.

  • Shield Wall -- Damage reduction changed from 40% to 50%. Cooldown still 2 minutes (talented). Duration still 12 seconds.


Blue Posts
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

Raid Heroic Mode
You will have to complete the Normal mode of a raid dungeon once before you can switch to Heroic the next week. (Source)

Beta Raid Difficuly
Normal mode raids are currently too easy (with few exceptions). You'll likely be seeing substantial buffs across the board in the next beta patch. (Source)

Removal of the Zul'gurub instance in 4.0.3a
We feel Zul'Gurub will serve the updated old world much better as a new questing area (and potentially a space for future dungeons), rather than an irrelevant instance. We understand there are some cool flavor items there, but that alone just wasn't justification enough to keep the place walled off so a very tiny fraction of the playerbase can continue farming endlessly for these items. One day maybe these items will make their return when the timing and implementation feels right. (Source)

Is it possible to increase the droprate of ZG mounts before it's removed?
No. (Source)

Tanking
Dragons damage / Magic Tanking
If Deathwing is anything like our current dragons, he'll do 60% physical damage and 40% magical damage. Dragon breaths never take you down to 100% of your health, so if the tank dies during them, it's probably because she wasn't topped off before hand (from all the physical damage before hand).

We got rid of the magical tank niche early in LK development because it wasn't a strong enough niche and it wasn't fun for groups to have to swap MTs. All four tanks are tanking Lich King and all four tanks will be tanking Deathwing. (Source)

RNG Deaths in WotLK
I agree it worked that way in Lich King. Tanks were often at risk of dying within 2-3 boss hits, often faster than a heal could land. In that environment anything that can prolong your life at all is very valuable, and by extension anything not related to reliably prolonging your life (parry for instance) is not attractive.

This is also something we have set out to change. I understand that you personally don't believe we will change it, and since your vision of what the world will be like is at odds with our vision, it is unsurprising that the changes we make to bring about our vision might not make sense to you.

But if healer mana doesn't matter, our whole combat design collapses. Healers won't value cheap heals. Since mana won't constrain them, overhealing will be common, so they may start devaluing crit as well. DPS specs won't value talents that help them stay alive. And the only way to challenge raids will once again be to clobber tanks so hard that any missed heals will result in tank death. It doesn't have to be this way, and in fact it wasn't this way for much of the game. We were watching the new Nefarian fights and recalling the old Nefarian fights where, in the absence of a berserk timer, the fight could really last for a long time -- maybe 20 minutes or more -- if you had a lot of deaths. The tank wasn't in much danger of RNG dying, so as long as the healers didn't run out of mana, the raid could keep the fight going nearly indefinitely.

As we said above, in the beta raid tests, druids were easy to keep alive and the other tanks were dying in two hits. That wasn't the design we were going for, so we brought the druid down to the other tank levels and adjusted the damage accordingly. (Source)

Druid (Forums / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
Vengeance and Savage Defense
Vengeance isn't a problem with Savage Defense in our minds. In fact, it works out well because it lets Savage Defense roughly scale the same way blocking scales, rather than being overpowered for 5-player dungeons or underpowered in raids. When you're getting hit the hardest (hard enough to stack Vengeance a lot), you're also blocking a lot.

Savage Defense was just mitigating too much damage in raids though, which is why we have nerfed it. (Source)

Warrior (Forums / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
Shield Block
When those scary moments come, you use Shield Wall. Or Last Stand. Or both. They are often telegraphed far in advance, so you can also get Guardian Spirit and all the other healer cooldowns lined up as well. You don't need Shield Block to withstand those big magical hits, in the same way you didn't need it to survive Fusion Punch. That's not what it's for. It is for reducing damage taken over time so that healers expend less mana over the course of the fight and don't run out. Very few bosses hit for only magical damage, so in that sense Shield Block and block and armor for that matter are what allow your healers to make it through an encounter.

We could consider adding a Shield Block glyph in the future that removes the block but adds magic damage reduction instead, but overall I think you guys are way over-freaking out about this. (Source)

Blizzcon Pre-Sale Shipping Delays
Originally Posted by Bashiok (Blue Tracker)
Due to an error in our shipping process, BlizzCon items ordered during the pre-sale have been delayed by approximately two weeks. We're expecting all items to now be shipped by November 3.

The intent of the pre-sale is of course to allow you to buy your items ahead of time, and get them as close to BlizzCon as possible, if not before. These issues, while unforeseen, are entirely regrettable and we apologize for any inconvenience they've caused. We're working to get you your goodies as soon as we possibly can.

Thank you for your patience.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Upcoming Tanking Changes Compilation, Blue Posts started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 76 Comments
  1. DrgnDancer's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by mrwingtipshoes View Post
    And here I thought due to our lack of block and parry bears were SUPPOSED to have more health...
    We have dodge that is generally equal to or even greater than the combined dodge+parry of other tanks. We have Savage Defense to make up for lack of Shield Block. All tanks are essentially equal right now. The mechanic are different (which is good), but the effect is the same. Mitigation is effectively equal across all tanking classes. We don't need more health and armor anymore. If they screw up the numbers and mitigation for one class gets OP (for instance as seems to have happened with Savage Defense), it's better to adjust the offending ability then too try to balance around "Well he has less mitigation of physical, but more mitigation of magical, and he has less mitigation in general, but more health, and he has..."
  1. cokillar's Avatar
    ultima savage defence has been nerfed i meant to have more hp to compensate for the lack of mitagation and i pull 15-30k tps so im good for your guide
  1. Toastythetoasted's Avatar
    hmm what do you mean the bosss are too easy? ok..SOME of the bosses are too easy BoT is easy infact its probibly the easiest raid on the beta 1st 3 bosses are pretty easy and maybe they need a slight buff but after doing BWD and To4W thats not the case. there are some pretty tough bosses.
  1. Eras's Avatar
    Bears tanking.. only have dodge and Savage defense (which works like block)... ok
    Bear 50% dodge, 0 % parry, Savage Defense (currently procs alot.. it blocks about 75% Physical damage on NEXT attack) and absorbs about 40% physical damage in a fight like Festergut.

    Warrior 25% dodge, 25% parry, 25% block + Mastery to block more and crit block.

    Bears loosing HP really worries me, and with Nerfing Savage Defense it can probably proc less now then Say Warrior Shield block, if it does then only defense we have is dodge.

    Kind of sucks to see this kind of nerfs, Ok nerfed Savage defense and its proc rate.. Why remove all HP? we still will be getting hit for more.
  1. theturn's Avatar
    So why no blue post on the fact that anyone who gets the digital dl won't be getting ANY cinematics....including the in game ones. Seems like something you would want people to know about before spending 40 bucks.
  1. nilnar's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by theturn View Post
    So why no blue post on the fact that anyone who gets the digital dl won't be getting ANY cinematics....including the in game ones. Seems like something you would want people to know about before spending 40 bucks.
    Care to elaborate?
  1. theturn's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by nilnar View Post
    Care to elaborate?

    I shouldn't have too and thats the point. It should be on the front page.

    In short anyone who dl through the digital upgrade will not recieve a cinematics folder. Blizz has said just go to thier youtube page and watch them. Now I haven't paid for the dl but i was going to. When i heard this I decided unless they change this im going with a box. And others should know about this before they pay then realize come cata they have no cinematics.
  1. DrgnDancer's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by theturn View Post
    I shouldn't have too and thats the point. It should be on the front page.

    In short anyone who dl through the digital upgrade will not recieve a cinematics folder. Blizz has said just go to thier youtube page and watch them. Now I haven't paid for the dl but i was going to. When i heard this I decided unless they change this im going with a box. And others should know about this before they pay then realize come cata they have no cinematics.
    I'd really like to see a source for that (Can't search the official forums at work.) Doesn't make a lot of sense in my mind. Cinema tics are relative bandwidth trivial compared to the whole game.
  1. Cobenn's Avatar
    Wow blizz. are you retarded? So now my prot paladin will have the same amount of health as my feral tank? yet my paladins can parry and block? GG, fucking tards
  1. McFrotton's Avatar
    Lol tank are streamlined yet they dont want to homogenized the classes too much, anyone know what happened here too many people QQed about the other class being better and when there class was better it was the other class (the former OP one) that QQ about the other buff so now they arent the best.

    I hope this will give a good lesson to every QQer, the more you QQ the more class will look the same its the only way to balance the game lol.

    Still its sad the class are lookin more and more similar

    ---------- Post added 2010-10-29 at 04:16 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Cobenn View Post
    Wow blizz. are you retarded? So now my prot paladin will have the same amount of health as my feral tank? yet my paladins can parry and block? GG, fucking tards
    read my post (above) this is what QQ between class will lead to this is what will kill wow someday not the game itself but the community will self-destruct the game by QQing

    QQ sudden death started 6 yrs ago lol
  1. Spotnick's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by jkw View Post
    Uh. 80k in beta at 85?! My Paladin has 80k+ in IC25 fully buffed. o0
    Your paladin also have a 30% HP buff in ICC.
  1. mimee's Avatar
    Is it possible to increase the droprate of ZG mounts before it's removed?
    No. (Source)

    Blizzard bunch of assholes
    ---- they dont understand the amount of TIME some of us have spent in there - like its gonna hurt so much to increase the damn drop rate for a month.
    And the flying on top of ZG and bugging the place - Corola10 - your a dumbass.. They could easily add a barrier like when you go out to sea and you hit a wall.. Theres many ways around that.

    And NO they wont add these mounts in the future. its logic.
  1. Tychus's Avatar
    Vigilance seems completely useless now, even more than before. It might be "kinda ok" for the dual-tank trope but as other tanks don't have it, they won't balance those fights assuming it's present. Free TP to go somewhere fun.
  1. mrwingtipshoes's Avatar
    Blizzard bunch of assholes
    ---- they dont understand the amount of TIME some of us have spent in there - like its gonna hurt so much to increase the damn drop rate for a month.
    And the flying on top of ZG and bugging the place - Corola10 - your a dumbass.. They could easily add a barrier like when you go out to sea and you hit a wall.. Theres many ways around that.
    Random number generator is random. Nothing based on RNG is 100%. It's part of the game.

    And NO they wont add these mounts in the future. its logic.
    which is not what they said a week ago but what ever, you know all.
  1. nilnar's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by theturn View Post
    I shouldn't have too and thats the point. It should be on the front page.

    In short anyone who dl through the digital upgrade will not recieve a cinematics folder. Blizz has said just go to thier youtube page and watch them. Now I haven't paid for the dl but i was going to. When i heard this I decided unless they change this im going with a box. And others should know about this before they pay then realize come cata they have no cinematics.
    Isn't that just so that people can't watch the videos before release, and they will be able to download the cinematic on release, just not beforehand? Have you got a source on this?
  1. Radyor's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Deos View Post
    What's the point in playing a bear tank then? If it feels and plays the same as warrior but misses all the glory of shiny armor, badass weapons and shiled, rather being stuck in the same form from level 10 to infinity and beyond.. I could come up with excuse before, "im feral tank because i like its unique combat style and i love to rely on huge HP pool rather than avoidance", now i have nothing to put in defense of bear :[
    I think this poster is right on the money. I also believe that the different tanks should be all equally capable. I have never played a druid tank, but I have tanked a lot on my warrior, paladin, DK and even a little on my shaman. Tanking sometimes just gets boring and I feel like I cant switch toons to get a fresh experience. Personally would like to see a little more design to separate the the tanks from eachother and to make them stand out. 4 tanks with 50k HP all with shield block/wall, thunderclap, swipe, consecrate...its getting redundant. Honestly, if druid tanks were given back their mitigation such as huge HP and armor it would be awesome to compare tits to the other tanks, Warrior/Blocked X amount, Druid took X amount, etc..

    I think this change also hinders players motivation to learn their class. I mean if everyone is saying 'pallys are better for this fight because [?]', then of course the other tanks are gonna try to figure out why and try to shine in that area as well. (Tell us we cant and we will) As for the said concern about guilds prefering not to swap out MT's, Totally understandable yet I find that to be a weak excuse since the implementation of dual-specing.

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