Ascendant Council First Kill, Archaeology, Addon, Restoration Shaman Guide

Lol, guide to writing a guide. Win.

nice kill by paragon =)

Paragon V5,Paragon Rippling !
You understand = =#!

And GZ to Paragon!

Race for the first raid end boss now, good work on Paragon

DLC => So true ...

And giants spiders

Loved DLC and the guide to writing guides

the "don't bring melee" part worries me. a lot.

Love the slight reference to Hitch Hiker's Guide in DLC ^^

Jesus Paragon, keep up the good work.

Originally Posted by Coldkil

the "don't bring melee" part worries me. a lot.

I thought we'd left that bullshit behind in TBC. Oh well

That will be Paragon EU. The refusal to confirm location when its EU and not US is annoying.

"Bring the player, not the class, but make sure the class is not specialized in melee dps". I made myself lol.

Gratz to Paragon, awesome job.

Darn "Casterclysm" :[ Dear santa, i wasnt naughty.. wel, maybe a lil' trollin' der and der.. why didn't you bring me nerf to mages pvp, nerf to survival hunters pve, and a fix to raiding mechanics which is once again meant to piss off us, poor weary melee dps :[

I almost died of laugther when I read that DLC, soooooo very true! Haha

Originally Posted by Coldkil

the "don't bring melee" part worries me. a lot.

Why would "what Paragon does to get the world first heroic kill in ungodly timeframes" really have anything to do with you, or 98% of the guilds out there?

By the time the masses hit H AC (you know, who they design around), class balances will have happened, people will have had a lot of time to acquire gear, and this won't be an issue. When you're looking to get the first kills in the world, doing content that was barely tested, you're probably going to stack the raid in a way that makes it easier to get that virtual pat on the back. Don't get that confused with "the encounter is impossible unless you do it this way".

Paragon should honestly know better than to start panic over something like 1 or 2 bosses requiring caster stacking. I mean, casters didn't spend the vast majority of Ulduar being outshined by melee, did we? Oh wait, yeah we did.

Originally Posted by skylla05

Why would "what Paragon does to get the world first heroic kill in ungodly timeframes" really have anything to do with you, or 98% of the guilds out there?

Guilds like Paragon set the trends and influence the opinions of large portions of the population. When they do/say something like this, you can be sure there will be plenty of guilds and raid leaders out there who will follow the example set. It's certainly a valid concern, although you do bring up many good counter points and hopefully it won't turn out the way he fears.

Well considering that 90% of the HC dungeon bosses favor ranged I'm not surprised to hear this.
I thought it was only my thought but the number of bosses where ranged stand still and melee move in and out (stopping dps) is too high, not even considering the trash pack that sometimes are a joke.

Originally Posted by skylla05

Paragon should honestly know better than to start panic over something like 1 or 2 bosses requiring caster stacking. I mean, casters didn't spend the vast majority of Ulduar being outshined by melee, did we? Oh wait, yeah we did.

As someone who played both melee and ranged throughout WoTLK, melee had it a lot worse. I remember General Vezax on my melee character and saying "Oh my god, a fight where I don't have to move at all.". Having to move a tad to the right or left as a ranged was barely an inconvenience at all. It interrupted my spell casting for about 0.1 seconds, while on most fights as melee, I either had to run away or chase after a boss.

After experiencing 2 instances in Cata so far, they are extremely rough on melee. Stonecore has been the worse so far, and I'm not looking forwards to it on Heroic due to all the melee unfriendly abilities the trash and bosses have.

Originally Posted by skylla05

Why would "what Paragon does to get the world first heroic kill in ungodly timeframes" really have anything to do with you, or 98% of the guilds out there?

By the time the masses hit H AC (you know, who they design around), class balances will have happened, people will have had a lot of time to acquire gear, and this won't be an issue. When you're looking to get the first kills in the world, doing content that was barely tested, you're probably going to stack the raid in a way that makes it easier to get that virtual pat on the back. Don't get that confused with "the encounter is impossible unless you do it this way".

Paragon should honestly know better than to start panic over something like 1 or 2 bosses requiring caster stacking. I mean, casters didn't spend the vast majority of Ulduar being outshined by melee, did we? Oh wait, yeah we did.

Class balances and fixes don't happen if no one brings up the issue. We've seen it time and time again, Blizzard refuses to to prioritise on specific mechanics unless a lot of noise is made (and most of the time they adhere to legitimate noise being made.) The poster you quoted is merely saying that he's worried about certain encounters requiring class stacking, and it's quite the legitimate concern since it goes against the Bring the player philosophy. By the time the masses hit H AC, the balance will only happen if the masses show some cause for concern.

So far only one guild has downed H AC and not only have they admitted to needing to stack range, they've specifically explained why it was needed. From your final line, it seems quite clear that you see this argument purely as a melee vs range debate, when really this argument should be about balance for all classes. Whether melee or range were favoured in the past is completely irrelevant, and if raiding worked in a tit for tat way where it's "well you guys were favoured last time, it's our turn now!" then raiding would be even more broken than ever.

Originally Posted by Attsey

That will be Paragon EU. The refusal to confirm location when its EU and not US is annoying.

Uhm, like US ever get first kills lol.