MMO-Champion - Dungeon Finder/Vote Kick Hotfixes, Patch 4.0.6 Hotfixes - Feb 16, Blue Posts
Blizzard is finally deploying a bunch of hotfixes for the Dungeon Finder! Also, if you missed the post a few hours ago, don't forget to check the Incoming Healer Changes!

Dungeon Finder/Vote Kick Hotfixes
Originally Posted by Bashiok (Blue Tracker)
We’re making a number of hotfixes to address use of the Dungeon Finder and vote kick tools. The following hotfixes will require realm restarts to implement, which are likely to be next Tuesday’s weekly maintenance.


  • Players who are outside a dungeon for more than a few minutes are now immediately able to be kicked.

  • If queuing as a group with a tank or healer, and the tank or healer drops group (or is kicked) soon after joining, those that queued with them will also be removed from the dungeon.

  • If three or more players group queue with each other it will require an additional vote for them to kick anyone they did not group queue with.

  • If a group queue of 4 kicks the one person that they did not group queue with they will each receive a more severe penalty to their ability to initiate future kicks.

  • If someone initiates a vote kick for someone they group queued with they will not incur a penalty to their ability to initiate future kicks.

With these changes we hope to reduce some undesirable behavior and annoyances, and encourage greater patience when using the Dungeon Finder. In addition, keep in mind that both initiating and agreeing to vote kick have always carried the same weight to your ability to kick in the future. It's always best to save your votes for when it really counts to ensure your ability to kick is available when it does.

We’ll of course be watching how these changes work to improve these systems, and always appreciate your feedback.

As these and other hotfixes are implemented, they'll be added to the hotfix blog - http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/2259389#blog

Patch 4.0.6 Hotfixes - February 16
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker)
Here you'll find a list of hotfixes that address various issues related to the recently released World of Warcraft: Cataclysm patch 4.0.6. Hotfixes are updates we make on our end without requiring you to download a new patch. Some of the hotfixes below will go live the moment they are implemented, while others may require your realm to be restarted to go into effect. Please keep in mind that some issues cannot be addressed without a client-side patch update. We will continue to update this thread in the days ahead as additional hotfixes are applied. Visit our Bug Report forum for a list of 4.0.6 known issues.

February 16
Druid (Forums / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Skills/Talents)
  • It is no longer possible for Skull Bash (Bear) to hit two targets at a time. A macro was previously circumventing the intended functionality of this ability.

Shaman (Forums / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Skills/Talents)
  • Purification (Restoration passive) now grants a 25% bonus to healing effects, up from 10%. More information can be found here.

Priest (Forums / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Skills/Talents)
  • In addition to its current effects, the Body and Soul talent now grants 12.5%/25% reduction to the base mana cost of Power Word: Shield. This is not reflected in the tooltip, but is reflected in the amount of mana used when Power Word: Shield is cast by Holy priests who have this talent. The tooltip update will require a client-side patch.
  • Power Word: Shield now costs roughly 34% of base mana, up from 25%. This is not reflected in the tooltip, but is reflected in the amount of mana used when the spell is cast. The tooltip update will require a client-side patch.
  • More information on these changes can be found here.

Dungeons & Raids
Blackwing Descent
  • Maloriak will no longer cast Flash Freeze on anyone who is tanking Aberrations or anyone who has recently been hit by them.

Blue Posts
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Bone Fishing Pole Hotfix
The item level was too high compared to the character level at which it could be used. This was updated in a hotfix on February 14.

It's not supposed to have a level 80 requirement, but it also wasn't supposed to be item level 200. (Source)

Priest (Forums / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Skills/Talents)
Incoming Healer Changes / Shadowpriests using Power Word: Shield
I probably don’t have the answers you’re looking for in regard to PvP, but Shadow priests already put out significant damage in PvP, and we’re ok if they’re a little bit more vulnerable as a result of this change. Discipline priests while not putting out as much damage, were still healing well and were likewise difficult to kill in PvP. As always, we’ll keep an eye out on these changes to see how they play out on the PvP end.

Generally speaking (and more to the PvE end), the Discipline tree has talents that play off of Penance, Flash Heal, Greater Heal and Prayer of Healing. It wouldn’t be strange for these priests to leverage Power Word:Barrier to help mitigate damage either should the occasion present itself. There's a solid variety of available spells to be used, and we want you to use them. Moreover we think healing as a priest will be more fun if you have to think about which spell to use rather than robotically answering each damage event with PW: Shield. Overall, we’re not reducing the power of Power Word: Shield at all, just increasing its cost and making the more efficient heals more attractive to use.

Power Word: Shield will still have its time and place and as always. We want it to be used often, we just don't want it used to the exclusion of all other abilities. We'll keep an eye on how things play out once the change is applied too.

*Someone earlier in the thread asked if this was an increase from base mana, and it is from the base mana cost.

As an aside: For those sharing constructive feedback, as always, we thank you. For those who are utilizing this thread as a means to simply complain, we hear you, but overstatements of upset aren't going to help us address your concerns. (Source)

Power Word: Shield
We don't want Discipline priests completely reliant on a single spell or ability for everything- (as in), Shield should not be the only spell you feel worth casting. Discipline priests are still very powerful at damage mitigation and we're not trying to take away using PW:Shield on a regular basis or its value. There should still be some worth in choosing which spells to cast and when.

[...] We want people using Power Word: Shield. As others have pointed out, it's something Discipline priests do well (Damage Mitigation) and it took awhile before more people began to believe that (remember those days?). Damage Mitigation will still happen and is still important even with this change, it's just not going to be the ONLY thing that the Discipline spec is going to be using to keep their groups and Raids up. There will be heals as well. Also, in Raids, there will be more than a Discipline priest supporting the raid. So knowing the best use of your abilities in that situation is key and playing off of the strengths of other healers will be as essential as it has always been.

Again, we're continuing to watch constructive feedback even if we may not be responding to all of the questions and thoughts that have been brought up in this thread. We are definitely reading. (Source)
This article was originally published in forum thread: Dungeon Finder/Vote Kick Hotfixes, Patch 4.0.6 Hotfixes - Feb 16, Blue Posts started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 197 Comments
  1. daburton's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by 420rogue View Post
    This is the stupidest shit ever. If your too fucking stupid to know how to do ANY fight in a heroic after a few attempts, then do not just pass it on to someone else. why carry them? I would rather vote kick and wait 30 minutes for someone else then carry someone that fucking stupid. in fact, I would rather not finish the dungeon and not get credit than give them credit for it. I would even roll need on gear just because they don't deserve it.

    p.s- don't even start that "your an elitist bullshit" all classes only use like 5 buttons in PvE. how hard is it to press polymorph? How hard is it to let the tank pull? how hard is it to press the lever? All of these (which is most of the problems people see) require little to no thought and the fact someone isn't capable means their useless to humanity and should be put down like a sick dog.
    Lol. If ever there was a case of the pot calling the kettle black, this is probably the ultimate.
  1. kaloryth's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by daburton View Post
    Lol. If ever there was a case of the pot calling the kettle black, this is probably the ultimate.
    I'm not sure if that's necessarily the appropriate analogy, but I must admit his attitude is absolutely disgusting. Claiming anyone is useless to humanity and should be put down like a sick dog... ugh.
  1. Azrile's Avatar
    To me, Blizzards decision was probably made because of GM tickets. The fact is, there is only a minor ´penalty´ if you kick that 5th person. If they are really that bad, then it is well worth the penalty to get rid of them. But the fact remains, a LOT of guilds were kicking people right before a boss and bringing in someone else who needed the drop. The new penalty is minor to get rid of a bad player, but it was really unfair to kick someone who was doing good just for a certain boss´s drop table, especially with ques being so long for dps.

    In any event. I think they fixed a big problem and created a minor one. Honestly though, as long as the DPS is doing nothing stupid, right now most guilds can 4 man heroics. Let them die if they stand in fire, don´t count on them for CC and be grateful for any dps you get out of them. Yeah, it sucks that sometimes you may have to carry some dead weight.. but it sucks much worse to be kicked out of a heroic 5 mins before getting your valor points, then having to reque and wait 40 minutes for a chance to possibly get lucky and finish the next one.
  1. Nanotech's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    To me, Blizzards decision was probably made because of GM tickets. The fact is, there is only a minor ´penalty´ if you kick that 5th person. If they are really that bad, then it is well worth the penalty to get rid of them. But the fact remains, a LOT of guilds were kicking people right before a boss and bringing in someone else who needed the drop. The new penalty is minor to get rid of a bad player, but it was really unfair to kick someone who was doing good just for a certain boss´s drop table, especially with ques being so long for dps.

    In any event. I think they fixed a big problem and created a minor one. Honestly though, as long as the DPS is doing nothing stupid, right now most guilds can 4 man heroics. Let them die if they stand in fire, don´t count on them for CC and be grateful for any dps you get out of them. Yeah, it sucks that sometimes you may have to carry some dead weight.. but it sucks much worse to be kicked out of a heroic 5 mins before getting your valor points, then having to reque and wait 40 minutes for a chance to possibly get lucky and finish the next one.
    I would agree with you IF the cases of "kick 5th for loot for guildie" cases were more frequent than running into people with terrible attitudes and terrible dps and being forced to carry them. Maybe it's just me but I've never kicked anyone over loot for myself or friend or guildie. And I don't know anyone in my guild who has. Maybe we're just especially nice (even though I don't consider myself to be particularly nice to everyone). Point is being stuck with dead weight seems far more likely than being kicked because of gear.

    I gotta say though anyone who cares that much about heroic drops is just...sad. And I say that as a non-raider.
  1. kaloryth's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Nanotech View Post
    I would agree with you IF the cases of "kick 5th for loot for guildie" cases were more frequent than running into people with terrible attitudes and terrible dps and being forced to carry them. Maybe it's just me but I've never kicked anyone over loot for myself or friend or guildie. And I don't know anyone in my guild who has. Maybe we're just especially nice (even though I don't consider myself to be particularly nice to everyone). Point is being stuck with dead weight seems far more likely than being kicked because of gear.

    I gotta say though anyone who cares that much about heroic drops is just...sad. And I say that as a non-raider.
    Unfortunately, dealing with people with bad attitudes and bad dps are part of what you got to do when you use LFD. LFD isn't give me a good group, it's give me a body. There have been many times that I personally wanted to kick someone because they had a bad attitude. My worst example would be a mage who was immature and immediately made an overtly sexual and crude comment. Because I decided to call him out on it, he decided to be an ass to me. I didn't kick him because his dps was okay, and it was just something I realized I needed to deal with because I had chosen to LFD. I did, however, get nipped in the butt when he needed the spirit shoulders off the last boss and won them over my holy priest and told me "to beg for it and I might give it to you".

    Was I mad? Yes. Did I care? A little. Did I do anything? Nope. I understood that this was a consequence of queueing in LFD, dropped group and got the shoulders a week later when they dropped again.

    To me, I find it hard to believe that you'll need to kick 2 dps in a row. Yes, a dps might be bad, but if you're in a guild group with 4 people, unless the dps is actually WIPING you, I don't think it's kick worthy. So if you get 2 dps in a row that manage to be so horrible that he wipes you, then I'd just say you were really really unlucky.

    Of course, many people don't have so much patience, and I can sort of understand that, but blizzard doesn't necessarily think being impatient justifies insane kickings.
  1. Omegadark's Avatar
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

    * If queuing as a group with a tank or healer, and the tank or healer drops group (or is kicked) soon after joining, those that queued with them will also be removed from the dungeon.

    i would be ok with this... but what if the tank dcd...?


    how long is soon after joining? 5-10 mins?

    i dont want to be punished for something my tank did when i was doing everything a dps should do...

    what if a group from the same server all group up 3/5 or 4/5 but the tank has to leave 2 mins later to go take care of his kid... the other 1/2/3 people have to wait for 1 tank 1/2 dps and 0/1 healer because of 1 person got 2-3 other people kicked? 2-3 dps... having to wait 15-30 mins (not sure havent been kicked as of yet in heroics...) for leaving early and 45 min ques (in between a 60-75 min wait time if u are a dps......) because in this situation the people in the group have a serious in real-life problem or the guild needs asap them but... the automated system doesnt know this/doesnt care...

    i find this more punishing then helpful
  1. unkn0wnerr0r's Avatar
    I love some of teh changes, but this should make people realize even more now that WoW is now a guild game. It's no longer about even being social, now it's about which guilds can get to be the biggest.

    ---------- Post added 2011-02-17 at 10:25 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by daburton View Post
    These changes are some that are definately needed. I was in a guild (was being the operative word) where I would see crap written in guild chat all the time. It was always the same thing or a variation on it "hey, so and so just logged on and needs a drop off the next boss. Lets boot the person and bring him in for it" or "hey, don't you need that trinket off the final boss? The pugger we have will likely roll on it as well, why dont we boot him when we get there so you dont have any competition". I mentioned to the GM on more than one occasion that for myself, I sure as hell dont think I want to be associated with a guild that allows its members to act in this manner. Of course nothing was done about it.

    As for the people bitching about low dps, I think people who go into a heroic and do that low of a dps are far far far from the norm. Maybe their dps is mediocre, but being ludcirously low... I have YET to see it. Crowd control "may" be a problem, but again, 9/10 of the heroics I pug now do NOT use any crowd control whatsoever and most definately when we're 3 and 4 manning guild heroics, we don't use any, and I wouldnt say any of us are overly geared.

    And as for "penalizing" 4 man guild groups. Get over it. Really. I'd say from experience the 4 man guild groups that ABUSE the kick system outweigh by an enormously large margin the amount of people that justly deserve to be kicked.

    And to this little quote:
    "Terra-bad is the person that I repeatedly tell to sheep moon that doesn't, the one that refuses to jump down and turn a lever, the one that repeatedly pulls for me, the one that does 2400 dps (i seriously had a 2400 dps lock in heroic BRC today). "

    Easy solution. 1. If they don't sheep, well just imagine that it was a class that DIDNT have CC. It is all random as to who you get in a group. Work around the problem, don't focus on it.
    2. If they don't jump down to pull the lever. Don't delegate it to them. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. If the person simply lacks that ability to do what they need to, work around it by assigning that task to someone else.
    3. If they continue pulling mobs, teach them a lesson. Let them pull, back your group up, let them die and don't rez or heal them. Eventually they will learn what to do and not to do.
    So basically punish an entire group of people because baddies refuse to learn how to play. I mean, why should they. Blizz will nerf stuff, or just make it so that guild groups can't get rid of them.

    After last month we still had enough to do 5 mans, and as much as I hated it we ended up queuing as a 3 man group. Me tank, heals, 1 dps. So under blizz new rules we will have a situation where no matter what they do I can't kick them. I suppose it doesn't matter as last healer just left along with a few dps for rift. Still kind of annoying
  1. tenzing21's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Tryxtira View Post
    I see why this is hotfixed, but truth to be told, as a dps, this just makes my day even worse. I don't have that many hours playing WoW every day and I've always done the queuing with a tank who then leave-trick. That way my friends can help me get in front of the queue even though they don't have time to do a heroic.

    I will now instead be queuing as tank myself, and since my gear sucks, that will lead to a lot more wipes and a lot more unhappy people.. I don't know how smart that is in the long run...
    I think that your problem, and I do sympathize with you, is that you expect other people to be penalized for your lifestyle. WoW takes a long time to get good at, and to get gear to showcase your talents. However, none of my arguments, although they seem to, are reasons you should be getting away with your decisions. You choose to play less than other people, then those others should be able to accomplish goals (heroics, in this case) a pace consistent with their prior commitment to the game.

    To put it another way, who should be more likely to be penalized for prior decisions, the one guy who needs more time to ramp up dps, and contributes the least; or the 4 who need less splainin' and contribute more than the one?

    ---------- Post added 2011-02-17 at 10:16 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by kaloryth View Post
    Unfortunately, dealing with people with bad attitudes and bad dps are part of what you got to do when you use LFD. LFD isn't give me a good group, it's give me a body. There have been many times that I personally wanted to kick someone because they had a bad attitude. My worst example would be a mage who was immature and immediately made an overtly sexual and crude comment. Because I decided to call him out on it, he decided to be an ass to me. I didn't kick him because his dps was okay, and it was just something I realized I needed to deal with because I had chosen to LFD. I did, however, get nipped in the butt when he needed the spirit shoulders off the last boss and won them over my holy priest and told me "to beg for it and I might give it to you".

    Was I mad? Yes. Did I care? A little. Did I do anything? Nope. I understood that this was a consequence of queueing in LFD, dropped group and got the shoulders a week later when they dropped again.

    To me, I find it hard to believe that you'll need to kick 2 dps in a row. Yes, a dps might be bad, but if you're in a guild group with 4 people, unless the dps is actually WIPING you, I don't think it's kick worthy. So if you get 2 dps in a row that manage to be so horrible that he wipes you, then I'd just say you were really really unlucky.

    Of course, many people don't have so much patience, and I can sort of understand that, but blizzard doesn't necessarily think being impatient justifies insane kickings.
    It is simply not valid, and indeed is puerile, to assume other human beings on this planet ante up 15$ a month to provide content for a person whose desire to succeed is not apparent, and in fact, looks to be complacent in class-knowledge and heroic understand. Asking me to provide content for someone because they don't have as much time as I do to play isn't proper.
  1. ivarh's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by unkn0wnerr0r View Post
    I love some of teh changes, but this should make people realize even more now that WoW is now a guild game. It's no longer about even being social, now it's about which guilds can get to be the biggest.

    ---------- Post added 2011-02-17 at 10:25 PM ----------



    So basically punish an entire group of people because baddies refuse to learn how to play. I mean, why should they. Blizz will nerf stuff, or just make it so that guild groups can't get rid of them.

    After last month we still had enough to do 5 mans, and as much as I hated it we ended up queuing as a 3 man group. Me tank, heals, 1 dps. So under blizz new rules we will have a situation where no matter what they do I can't kick them. I suppose it doesn't matter as last healer just left along with a few dps for rift. Still kind of annoying
    So far when i have been the only pug dps in a lost city guild run i have always been kicked after killing the 3rd boss. I can only assume its beacause they have a guildie who wants a shot of the trinket of the last boss. And since when i go as dps im a enhance shaman they see me as competition for the trinket.

    I'm pretty sure they instituted the last part of the LFD change to combat this.
  1. Meldon's Avatar
    The change to the vote to kick tool is just plain stupid.

    If i queue with 3 friends, and the 2 random players are friends too, then i will never get the extra positive vote to kick one of them if they are complete idiots.
    The same thing is happening now when you queue with 3 friends and you will never be kicked because 3 votes over 5 are negative.
  1. lanerios's Avatar
    Nephyron, let's base the LFD system completely around your setup ok? Ow wait.. they won't.

    The tears in this topic are delicious, I fully agree with the LFD changes, but people like Nephron (your name reminds me of a kidney), and others are just.. amusing.
  1. FreeGames's Avatar
    No doubt, I have been wondering the same thing!
  1. kldozer's Avatar
    seems that tanks selling insta queues days are kinda over. they will have to stay
  1. Imzoo's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Cernunnos View Post
    true that happens, but more often than not, i'm one of the 4, and the pug is a bad player, stands in fires, pulls for the tank, makes the healer have to try heal through being stupid, all those things that generally make for bad players.

    Why should we all be penalised for kicking someone who isn't performing to the best of their abilities?
    Then you let him die, its his own gold. Some point, the person will for sure leave.
  1. Adrya's Avatar
    I feel like I'm being forced by Blizzard to either not use LFD at all or carry through / play teacher for / hold hands with utter retards. No amount of explaining will help in 99% of the cases. Most of the dismal players are not true newbies that need a short explanation of what to do (I don't mind them) - the really bad ones are usually the ones won't take or follow advise/orders. Like "CC the goddamn star" or "kick that healer with the orange thing above his head". And you can ask them pre-pull "do you know what we need you to do <name>?" and they'll respond with "+" and then proceed to utterly fail, again and again. I'm simply not willing to waste my time for stupid people - if Blizzard wants to pressure me into doing it then I'll simply avoid LFD all together - I'm sure that will help the legitimate (read: unretarded) solo DPS that just want to run their heroic.
  1. Parallax's Avatar
    It never lets me kick people in under an hour
  1. tr1p's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    [*]If queuing as a group with a tank or healer, and the tank or healer drops group (or is kicked) soon after joining, those that queued with them will also be removed from the dungeon.
    oooh noes!

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