MMO-Champion - Guild Transfer & Guild Rename Services Coming, The View From 10,000 Feet
Guild Transfer & Guild Rename Services Coming
Originally Posted by Nethaera (Blue Tracker)
We want to give everyone an early heads-up regarding our plan to implement a guild relocation service for World of Warcraft. The idea is for a guild leader to be able to transfer a guild to another realm. The guild structure remains intact, including the guild leader, guild bank, ranks, and guild name (depending on availability).

Guild members who decide to relocate with their guild may initiate their own paid character transfer. Upon a successful transfer they will automatically be part of the guild when they first log into the new realm. Their guild rank and guild reputation will be intact.

Guild leaders who do not want a change of scenery may also choose to pick a new guild name using another new service. These services are in development and we will be providing additional details at a future point in time.

As with all of the features and services we offer, we intend to incorporate the guild relocation service in a way that will not disrupt the game play experience. Please note that this feature will require extensive internal testing, so you may see bits and pieces of the service appear on the public test realms. We'll announce further details at http://www.WorldofWarcraft.com .

Dev Watercooler: The View From 10,000 Feet
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker)
So how is the view from way up here? It’s great actually -- we’re really happy with how Cataclysm is going so far, and we have big surprises on the horizon. On the other hand, there are details you can see at ground level that you can’t make out from 10,000 feet.

When we started these blogs, the idea was to foster developer communication to the players without some of the inherent problems of posting in forums. Some players have pointed out recently, and we totally agree, that the blogs up until now have been from a very high vantage point. We looked for topics with universal interest that would feel important and newsworthy. That has worked overall, but we also feel like we’ve lost something from when I used to be down in the metaphorical trenches talking to players in the forums.

So we’re going to try something a little different. We’re going to unleash some blogs that are much more conversational and less proclamational (that's a word now). If we deliver on this, it will hopefully feel like you’re eavesdropping on our design meetings. You won’t always learn a lot about exciting new features coming to the game, but you will (ideally) learn something about the design process itself. (When we have big, exciting news to share, or ‘State of the Game’ style blogs, we’ll still do those as well.)

But to pull off this more casual blog style, let’s establish a few ground rules:

1) No promises. I’m going to be talking about a lot of things we might do or things we could do. You shouldn’t interpret this brainstorming as patch notes. Our creative process is insanely iterative. We might pitch dozens of ideas before we find one we like. That can be really exhausting if you’re not used to it. If you’re more interested in final decisions and not idea churn, then this style of blog won’t be for you.

2) Don’t read too much between the lines. I’m going to point out a lot of design flaws in our game. “Oh no! Goatcaller admitted WoW was deeply flawed! It’s shark-jumping time!” Look, Blizzard is very critical about our own designs. There is virtually nothing in World of Warcraft that could not be improved. That has always been the case and will continue to be the case. Just because I’m going to be sharing that more frankly with you doesn’t mean that the game now has more cracks in its foundation than it ever did. There is an old saying (misattributed, from what I understand, to Otto Bismarck) that laws are like sausages; it is best not seeing them being made. My old friend and mentor Bruce Shelley used to apply the same maxim to game design.

3) No complaints about the topic. If we didn’t have an interesting discussion about a topic recently, e.g. shaman mechanics, I’m not going to invent one. That doesn’t mean that the class is perfect, or that we don’t love shaman players, or that the shaman class has no direction, or that the class design is frozen in carbonite. I’m not going to keep hash marks next to every class and spec to make sure I’ve covered their "Very Important Issues" lately in a blog. World of Warcraft design being what it is, we’ll probably eventually get around to talking about everyone on here, but it may take weeks or months or years. My team is responsible for areas of the game including classes, items, encounters, trade skills, achievements, combat, and UI, so my blogs will probably stick to those topics.

Okay, all that preamble is out of the way now. I’ll probably refer back to it sometimes, if we have some players stomping all over the ground rules.

One topic we’ve been discussing lately is the role of Hit and Expertise on tank gear (or more precisely, plate tanking gear). The conventional wisdom is that Hit and Expertise are threat stats, and you may need to swap them out with some of your mitigation stats depending on the situation. Realistically, unless you severely overgear the content, we don’t think that is actually true. Tanks almost always worry about survival first and foremost, which totally makes sense, and are willing to trade off threat stats for better mitigation in almost all situations. It’s much harder to progress if the tank explodes than it is if the cat occasionally pulls aggro. (It’s not quite that simple, but I’m going to gloss over details and exceptions since I spent so much text on the preamble up above).

Once upon a time, taunts could miss, and so Hit was marginally more interesting than it is today. Once upon a time, having a boss parry your attacks could speed up its swing timer, which turned Expertise into a (often weak) survival stat. Boss parries felt very random though, both in the sense that sometimes the tank would suddenly take much more damage than anticipated and there was no easy way to know which bosses had parry speed up. (Today, you can assume none of them do.) Until recently, interrupts could miss, but asking a tank to stack a bunch of Hit just for those few opportunities when they were probably going to hit anyway but disaster would occur if they did not felt crummy too.

The problem is that there aren’t a lot of stats that are interesting to tanks. Stamina and Armor are great, but their stat budget is often in lockstep with item level. (It would be interesting to consider if we could make that not the case once again, but that’s the topic for another blog.) We got rid of Defense as a stat that tanks needed to worry about. We have managed to make Mastery pretty good to excellent for tanks, so that’s at least one stat they like to see. Dodge and (if you’re a plate-wearer) Parry are good, and slightly interesting because of talents like Hold the Line. But beyond that, it starts to go downhill. Sure Haste and Crit can sometimes be fun, but really they often aren’t worth the trade off. That leaves us with Hit and Expertise. We’d like to make them more interesting to tanks. But how?

One way is by turning them into defensive stats. They are defensive stats for Blood death knights, because the DK self-healing is tied into Death Strike, which can miss. It might be possible to do something similar for the other classes. Imagine if Shield Block had to actually hit the target. Presumably you raise your shield, but not high enough to intercept the incoming blow. Now hit becomes a mitigation stat for warriors as well. We might have to adjust the mitigation amount on Shield Block or give warriors a small Hit bonus so Hit capping wasn’t totally unreasonable, but you get the basic idea. You could do the same with paladins (make Holy Shield more interesting?) and druids as well (Savage Defense could proc on a hit).

Is this a good idea? We’re not sure yet. You won’t see this change in the 4.1 patch for certain. There are trade-offs to making Hit and Expertise more valuable. Gearing as a tank might be more fun for experienced players, but it also might be more challenging for less experienced players. The number of struggling tanks in your Dungeon Finder groups might go up. Some less knowledgeable players (and to be fair, this stuff doesn’t exactly explain itself on the character sheet) might stack Hit way too high at the expense of a more valuable mitigation stat, such as mastery.

It is the kind of thing we’re talking about though, and if you want to make a contribution to the tanking forums but aren’t quite sure on a topic, here is one potential possibility.

-Greg “Ghostcrawler” Street is the lead systems designer of World of Warcraft. He still has Buru’s Skull Fragment.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Guild Transfer & Guild Rename Services Coming, The View From 10,000 Feet started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 131 Comments
  1. darkside31337's Avatar
    People will whine about anything.

    If you really thought this service would be free, what are you thinking? It's not any different than paying for a server change, only now you're paying a little extra to keep your guild in tact.

    People whining about how a guild leader can abuse this, hello? A guild leader can already take everything from the bank, disband the guild / kick you out of it, and then transfer to another server anyway. How does this service make things any different?
  1. TobiasX's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Rolly View Post
    Stop trying to defend the indefensible. There is a difference between making a profit and being outright greedy. Blizzard has become greedy.
    There never has been and never will be. Companies exist to make as much money as possible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rolly View Post
    All you people blathering about "a company has to make a profit" need a lesson in morality.
    Companies have never had morals; the only restriction is what they can and cannot get away with.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rolly View Post
    Blizzard is already making hundreds of millions if not billions in profit, when is enough enough?
    Companies cannot make enough money.

    Please take off your blinkers and face reality.
  1. jd5's Avatar
    1. Several friends all want to switch realms so they can join the same 'better' guild. They all make a guild on their current server and pool money for a guild transfer instead of paying for individual transfers.

    2. A player has 10 85s on the same server, including a guild bank for their personal use. This will let me move my team of characters around much more freely.

    Can't wait to see more details on this.
    Don't think it works like that, you x-fer as the guild leader and your guild comes with you, not the players. They would have to x-fer themselves, and if they did, could retain their guild name and rep in that guild.

    I guess this means that if your GM wants to move, he will move and take the guild bank with him. Maybe you are not making good enough progress and he wants to try another realm. While giving a GM this power, the small guys like us ..... lose all our guild perks.
    You mean the outcome would be exactly the same if that GM today did the same thing and looted the bank, scuttled the guild and then x-ferred to a new server on his own?!? Or just booted all the members and stayed on the same server. Or so on...

    D-bag GM's (and players in general) existed before, during and will continue long after WoW has run it's course.
  1. Stroglin's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Rolly View Post
    Stop trying to defend the indefensible. There is a difference between making a profit and being outright greedy. Blizzard has become greedy.
    All you people blathering about "a company has to make a profit" need a lesson in morality.
    Blizzard is already making hundreds of millions if not billions in profit, when is enough enough?
    And don't give me that crap about "the law says they have to make a profit" that fucking law was passed to stop companies from deliberately having losses to get tax write offs not as a tacit go ahead to abandon all morality for profit.
    You actually need a lesson in morality. A drug company charging ungodly amounts for AIDS meds after there R&D has been paid for 20 times over is immorral. A game company who offers optional services and goods that are in no way required to play the game, or even to play it better than everyone else; a game mind you noone is forced to play. That isnt immoral its amoral. They are a business and a business has a duty to its share holders to profit. I cannot believe that people actually bitch about services that in no way effect game play. So you cant afford a guild transfer that doesnt mean you cant log in and play. The perks of guild rank offer items of convienience and not items that are required to be playable. I have an idea why dont't you stop qqing about something as irrelevant as this and actually focus your energies on something that matters. If you disagree with Blizzard's business model then show them by taking your 15 bucks a month a way. I am sure they will miss it.
  1. qualiti's Avatar
    Yes I am sure blizzard is designing this just to make money, and that no one has asked for a service that would make it so someone wouldn't have to re-grind all their guild rep, or so a guild didn't have to waste 15+ k gold to re-buy guild tabs. I'm sure blizzard is just out to ruin the lives of its player base while they slip them poisoned apples and try to cook your kids.

    If these services don't concern you than, LOLYUMAD. As for all the guild leader xfer nonsense, they can already do all the things you are crying about. The can take your perks away and reset your guild rep ( lol kick and ignore ). They can take all the mats and gold from your bank and transfer with it ( lol get gold capped, keep valued items on my 10 26 slot bags, if there's left over gold buy stuff you can AH on new server ).

    Attention trolls above post is tldr.
  1. Scratches's Avatar
    Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler (Blue Tracker)

    [...] I’m going to point out a lot of design flaws in our game. “Oh no! Goatcaller admitted WoW was deeply flawed! It’s shark-jumping time!” Look, Blizzard is very critical about our own designs. [...]
    brb, making character named Goatcaller...
  1. Uhaneole's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Vasz View Post
    So a GM can up-and-run to another server, change the guild name, his name, he race and faction?

    I guess this means that if your GM wants to move, he will move and take the guild bank with him. Maybe you are not making good enough progress and he wants to try another realm. While giving a GM this power, the small guys like us ..... lose all our guild perks.

    VERY bad idea IMO.
    If you have a GM like that, I feel sorry for you. IMO
  1. Gurbz's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Vasz View Post
    This is the generation of free to play mmorpgs, not pay pay pay pay to play.
    Even those "free-to-play" MMOs will probably end up costing you money, especially if you want all the things that WoW includes as part of the subscription. Want an extra bag slot beyond the 2 free ones? $5 per month. More than one character slot? No problem, only $15. How about that new raid we just developed that drops all the new BiS gear? We'll unlock it for only $3 per month more. Or you can just give us $50 and we'll mail all that gear to you without you needing to actually complete the content.

    Free-to-Play MMOs are still run by companies that are looking to make a profit. The only difference is that instead of charging you up front, through a subscription, they charge a little bit for all the extra features. They are almost like a drug dealer, in that the first taste is free but if you want more it'll be $$. They are basically counting on a certain % of their playerbase being willing to fork over the cash for all the extras so that they turn a profit.

    Seriously, when did it become evil for a company to want to make money? Blizzard is providing a service that, in most circumstances, was not available before, and is not necessary to play the game. If you don't want to pay for the service, you can choose to not use it. You people act like Blizzard just announced that it will now cost $25 to be able to equip anything better than greens. THAT would be evil, cause they are impacting game play, and charging for something we used to get automatically.
  1. Laikaa's Avatar
    I am thrilled to be able to purchase a guild name change. I bought a guild for 350g (4 tabs) from someone in trade chat who was leaving the server. The guild was a steal at that price and unfortunately it never occured to me ask what the name of the guild was. I will be first in line to use this service.
  1. Medivhe's Avatar
    April fool's
  1. Vehemence's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Rolly View Post
    Paid guild name change and server transfer. bwahahahahahahahahahaha So now the real reason for guild perk implementation comes out.
    +1
  1. thediceman's Avatar
    oh look something else thats done automatically and costs them less than a 1/1000 of a penny to do that they will inevitably charge out the nose for >>.

    also lulz@ dev blogs ,I look forward to seeing them completely have no fucking clue how the current pvp state is.
  1. probert's Avatar
    As if guild stagnation has not gotten bad enough already. Guild reputation grinding just to have access to guild perks, ontop of having to build guild XP through dozens of members doing stuff in game to unlock the perks. No one will ever want to leave or move from a guild again. Guild is dying? "Well, i can't leave now I just got to exalted." Strong guild with l25 perks? "Why should we let these new members in just to freeload off our benefits?" Sadly the implementation of a revenue generator for Blizzard means they're happy with the design.
  1. thegrza's Avatar
    If you don't like the way they run their business, then do what you'd do if you decided you hated the local deli - stop paying for the product and go find something you do like. If you are a shareholder and don't like their profit model, sell your shares and buy something else. Paying to play their game doesn't give you a right to a fair or balanced or perfect or morale game - it lets you play the game they are producing.

    Guild transfers are a great thing - if a group of people want to transfer with the GL, they don't have to throw away four months of leveling and 25 levels worth of perks. The downside? It makes guilds a commodity - now someone can sell their level X guild, and the buyer can take it wherever they want and change the name to something they like.
  1. Szilia's Avatar
    The new dev blogs could get really interesting, with some more focus on specific issues, which could make room for more focused discussions. I don't think big parts of the community can handle such information (already been proven here a few times), but personally I look forward to getting a few more glimpses of what's going on at their design meetings.
  1. ragingsoul's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurbz View Post
    Even those "free-to-play" MMOs will probably end up costing you money, especially if you want all the things that WoW includes as part of the subscription. Want an extra bag slot beyond the 2 free ones? $5 per month. More than one character slot? No problem, only $15. How about that new raid we just developed that drops all the new BiS gear? We'll unlock it for only $3 per month more. Or you can just give us $50 and we'll mail all that gear to you without you needing to actually complete the content.

    Free-to-Play MMOs are still run by companies that are looking to make a profit. The only difference is that instead of charging you up front, through a subscription, they charge a little bit for all the extra features. They are almost like a drug dealer, in that the first taste is free but if you want more it'll be $$. They are basically counting on a certain % of their playerbase being willing to fork over the cash for all the extras so that they turn a profit.

    Seriously, when did it become evil for a company to want to make money? Blizzard is providing a service that, in most circumstances, was not available before, and is not necessary to play the game. If you don't want to pay for the service, you can choose to not use it. You people act like Blizzard just announced that it will now cost $25 to be able to equip anything better than greens. THAT would be evil, cause they are impacting game play, and charging for something we used to get automatically.
    the problem is that there is more than 1 way to make profit. 2 example I can thing of, either by trying your best, making it more attractive for customers, but not charging them more, or, trying to take the easy way out, and offering things that doesn't cost you much.
    In the last couple of months, I'm seeing more and more changes and announcements that requires less than before.
    now, if new items looked like vanilla's ones (way better looking), if models weren't reuse every Tier, if mobs models were actually created more than recolored, THEN I woudn't have this feeling.
    But when old successful raids are removed just so that they can put them back in and call it new content, when they make announcements such as this week, saying they want to tune down instant spell dmg and the day after you see them buffing it (so that they can say "yes, that direction wasn't the best, so we'll remove the buffs; what changed in the end? yeah nothing), those are sneaky ways to keep players in, while doing the least amount of work.
  1. Noakh's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Rolly View Post
    Stop trying to defend the indefensible. There is a difference between making a profit and being outright greedy. Blizzard has become greedy.
    All you people blathering about "a company has to make a profit" need a lesson in morality.
    Blizzard is already making hundreds of millions if not billions in profit, when is enough enough?
    And don't give me that crap about "the law says they have to make a profit" that fucking law was passed to stop companies from deliberately having losses to get tax write offs not as a tacit go ahead to abandon all morality for profit.
    First, Revenue != Profit. Second, Morality (as has been suggested in a few other posts) is absolutely subjective, especially in the business world. The value of a company is very rarely described as "is it making money?" Rather, it is "Are they making as much money as they could be?" It just boggles me that you think Blizzard's efforts to increase revenues is somehow "evil." I mean, who loses out in this deal?
  1. geekgirl's Avatar
    Mark me down as one of the few who like the guild relocation service.
    I have a bank alt guild on a server which I started for myself and my son when he first started playing.
    The server is neither in our time zone nor in our part of the country, so our latency can be vicious.
    So recently we rerolled on a server that better fits our needs and I would love to bring that guild over so that we have the supplies and mats and whatall we collected on the server that we no longer game on.

    I understand the fear that a GM would rip a functioning guild out from under it's members, and yeah, that would stink. But a GM who would do that would eventually screw everyone over anyway - one way or another.
  1. resare's Avatar
    Someone has already stated if the guild transfer system was free, it would be abused to no end, I can't believe people are frickin' complaining about this.
  1. Malvision's Avatar
    Remind me again why we are complaining that its a paid service? If you dont want it, dont get it.

    It merely opens possibilities for those that are in a situation where this kind of thing would be great. The fee, yes, makes Blizzard some money but imagine there was no cost for this. Guilds would be transferring servers all the time and no body wants that.

    And at the end of the day, more money to Blizzard = better games in the future.

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