MMO-Champion - Guild Transfer & Guild Rename Services Coming, The View From 10,000 Feet
Guild Transfer & Guild Rename Services Coming
Originally Posted by Nethaera (Blue Tracker)
We want to give everyone an early heads-up regarding our plan to implement a guild relocation service for World of Warcraft. The idea is for a guild leader to be able to transfer a guild to another realm. The guild structure remains intact, including the guild leader, guild bank, ranks, and guild name (depending on availability).

Guild members who decide to relocate with their guild may initiate their own paid character transfer. Upon a successful transfer they will automatically be part of the guild when they first log into the new realm. Their guild rank and guild reputation will be intact.

Guild leaders who do not want a change of scenery may also choose to pick a new guild name using another new service. These services are in development and we will be providing additional details at a future point in time.

As with all of the features and services we offer, we intend to incorporate the guild relocation service in a way that will not disrupt the game play experience. Please note that this feature will require extensive internal testing, so you may see bits and pieces of the service appear on the public test realms. We'll announce further details at http://www.WorldofWarcraft.com .

Dev Watercooler: The View From 10,000 Feet
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker)
So how is the view from way up here? It’s great actually -- we’re really happy with how Cataclysm is going so far, and we have big surprises on the horizon. On the other hand, there are details you can see at ground level that you can’t make out from 10,000 feet.

When we started these blogs, the idea was to foster developer communication to the players without some of the inherent problems of posting in forums. Some players have pointed out recently, and we totally agree, that the blogs up until now have been from a very high vantage point. We looked for topics with universal interest that would feel important and newsworthy. That has worked overall, but we also feel like we’ve lost something from when I used to be down in the metaphorical trenches talking to players in the forums.

So we’re going to try something a little different. We’re going to unleash some blogs that are much more conversational and less proclamational (that's a word now). If we deliver on this, it will hopefully feel like you’re eavesdropping on our design meetings. You won’t always learn a lot about exciting new features coming to the game, but you will (ideally) learn something about the design process itself. (When we have big, exciting news to share, or ‘State of the Game’ style blogs, we’ll still do those as well.)

But to pull off this more casual blog style, let’s establish a few ground rules:

1) No promises. I’m going to be talking about a lot of things we might do or things we could do. You shouldn’t interpret this brainstorming as patch notes. Our creative process is insanely iterative. We might pitch dozens of ideas before we find one we like. That can be really exhausting if you’re not used to it. If you’re more interested in final decisions and not idea churn, then this style of blog won’t be for you.

2) Don’t read too much between the lines. I’m going to point out a lot of design flaws in our game. “Oh no! Goatcaller admitted WoW was deeply flawed! It’s shark-jumping time!” Look, Blizzard is very critical about our own designs. There is virtually nothing in World of Warcraft that could not be improved. That has always been the case and will continue to be the case. Just because I’m going to be sharing that more frankly with you doesn’t mean that the game now has more cracks in its foundation than it ever did. There is an old saying (misattributed, from what I understand, to Otto Bismarck) that laws are like sausages; it is best not seeing them being made. My old friend and mentor Bruce Shelley used to apply the same maxim to game design.

3) No complaints about the topic. If we didn’t have an interesting discussion about a topic recently, e.g. shaman mechanics, I’m not going to invent one. That doesn’t mean that the class is perfect, or that we don’t love shaman players, or that the shaman class has no direction, or that the class design is frozen in carbonite. I’m not going to keep hash marks next to every class and spec to make sure I’ve covered their "Very Important Issues" lately in a blog. World of Warcraft design being what it is, we’ll probably eventually get around to talking about everyone on here, but it may take weeks or months or years. My team is responsible for areas of the game including classes, items, encounters, trade skills, achievements, combat, and UI, so my blogs will probably stick to those topics.

Okay, all that preamble is out of the way now. I’ll probably refer back to it sometimes, if we have some players stomping all over the ground rules.

One topic we’ve been discussing lately is the role of Hit and Expertise on tank gear (or more precisely, plate tanking gear). The conventional wisdom is that Hit and Expertise are threat stats, and you may need to swap them out with some of your mitigation stats depending on the situation. Realistically, unless you severely overgear the content, we don’t think that is actually true. Tanks almost always worry about survival first and foremost, which totally makes sense, and are willing to trade off threat stats for better mitigation in almost all situations. It’s much harder to progress if the tank explodes than it is if the cat occasionally pulls aggro. (It’s not quite that simple, but I’m going to gloss over details and exceptions since I spent so much text on the preamble up above).

Once upon a time, taunts could miss, and so Hit was marginally more interesting than it is today. Once upon a time, having a boss parry your attacks could speed up its swing timer, which turned Expertise into a (often weak) survival stat. Boss parries felt very random though, both in the sense that sometimes the tank would suddenly take much more damage than anticipated and there was no easy way to know which bosses had parry speed up. (Today, you can assume none of them do.) Until recently, interrupts could miss, but asking a tank to stack a bunch of Hit just for those few opportunities when they were probably going to hit anyway but disaster would occur if they did not felt crummy too.

The problem is that there aren’t a lot of stats that are interesting to tanks. Stamina and Armor are great, but their stat budget is often in lockstep with item level. (It would be interesting to consider if we could make that not the case once again, but that’s the topic for another blog.) We got rid of Defense as a stat that tanks needed to worry about. We have managed to make Mastery pretty good to excellent for tanks, so that’s at least one stat they like to see. Dodge and (if you’re a plate-wearer) Parry are good, and slightly interesting because of talents like Hold the Line. But beyond that, it starts to go downhill. Sure Haste and Crit can sometimes be fun, but really they often aren’t worth the trade off. That leaves us with Hit and Expertise. We’d like to make them more interesting to tanks. But how?

One way is by turning them into defensive stats. They are defensive stats for Blood death knights, because the DK self-healing is tied into Death Strike, which can miss. It might be possible to do something similar for the other classes. Imagine if Shield Block had to actually hit the target. Presumably you raise your shield, but not high enough to intercept the incoming blow. Now hit becomes a mitigation stat for warriors as well. We might have to adjust the mitigation amount on Shield Block or give warriors a small Hit bonus so Hit capping wasn’t totally unreasonable, but you get the basic idea. You could do the same with paladins (make Holy Shield more interesting?) and druids as well (Savage Defense could proc on a hit).

Is this a good idea? We’re not sure yet. You won’t see this change in the 4.1 patch for certain. There are trade-offs to making Hit and Expertise more valuable. Gearing as a tank might be more fun for experienced players, but it also might be more challenging for less experienced players. The number of struggling tanks in your Dungeon Finder groups might go up. Some less knowledgeable players (and to be fair, this stuff doesn’t exactly explain itself on the character sheet) might stack Hit way too high at the expense of a more valuable mitigation stat, such as mastery.

It is the kind of thing we’re talking about though, and if you want to make a contribution to the tanking forums but aren’t quite sure on a topic, here is one potential possibility.

-Greg “Ghostcrawler” Street is the lead systems designer of World of Warcraft. He still has Buru’s Skull Fragment.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Guild Transfer & Guild Rename Services Coming, The View From 10,000 Feet started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 131 Comments
  1. Keristrasza's Avatar
    It amazes me how many people are "Shocked" and "Disgusted" that a business is actually trying to make money and the last time I checked that is what a business did, make money. If blizzard didn't try to make money then you could kiss this game good bye, because I am pretty sure that they crew who works at blizzard aren't running all these kind of games and services for free out of the kindness of their own hearts. Such a perfect world does not exist.
  1. ponies's Avatar
    uhm, if you don't like it, don't use it?
    i'm pretty sure if your gm just takes off with your guild and bank you can report him and have stuff reimbursed, its been done before, there are even topics about it.

    i'm just wondering, if you can faction change a guild as well.
  1. Dimension101's Avatar
    I was really hoping that when they decided to to do this that the GM could just pay like a solid 100-200 bucks to just pull all the members over. Instead they all have to pay if they want to come.... Yea I'm a bit disappointed
  1. Dumbnut's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Vasz View Post
    So a GM can up-and-run to another server, change the guild name, his name, he race and faction?

    I guess this means that if your GM wants to move, he will move and take the guild bank with him. Maybe you are not making good enough progress and he wants to try another realm. While giving a GM this power, the small guys like us ..... lose all our guild perks.

    VERY bad idea IMO.
    He could do that now as well, only he wouldn't keep the guild. On the other hand, if it has been planned, you can also server switch now, and the guild will be intact.

    This is a GOOD idea, that can be abused. But so can anything else.
  1. Scrubbles's Avatar
    Any notes on this also including guild faction changes (i.e. Alliance on Server X => Horde on Server X)?
  1. blackangel209's Avatar
    Seeing some insight on their dev process is really cool, but on this particular point, if they go through with something like this, it's just going to be even harder to get people to tank.
  1. Korru's Avatar
    It's official:

    Blizzard is run by goblins...
  1. Azerox's Avatar
    Draining the big fat Cow, Titan is incoming
  1. Mister K's Avatar
    "Guild Transfer & Guild Rename Services Coming"

    about a time
  1. Miri's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by TobiasX View Post
    Interesting uses of this new system:

    1. Several friends all want to switch realms so they can join the same 'better' guild. They all make a guild on their current server and pool money for a guild transfer instead of paying for individual transfers.

    2. A player has 10 85s on the same server, including a guild bank for their personal use. This will let me move my team of characters around much more freely.

    Can't wait to see more details on this.
    If I'm understanding the concept correctly though, the BANK will move, but the characters will remain unless they choose to transfer. I was hoping it would work as you outlined in point 2. I have a crapton of characters (13 above 80) and my credit card gets REALLY pissed at me while I move my entire haul from an old server to a new server. Transferring 20 toons (10 of mine, 10 of my husband's) before the CC company starts calling asking if it's really me (had a woman in the security department who's husband played EverQuest, so she had a good idea of what was going on) gets really old.

    I was hoping for an option like "Want to move your guild (characters included)? Here's the fee: (money amount here). Proceed?" Instead I'm spending money to move a bank, and then money to move characters. If anything, would love Blizzard to implement "spend XYZ money in our transfer store, get ABC transfers free..."

    Glad they are rolling something out though...I'll finally be able to reclaim a 6-slot bank on another realm that's been waiting for this functionality for years...
  1. 420rogue's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Dimension101 View Post
    I was really hoping that when they decided to to do this that the GM could just pay like a solid 100-200 bucks to just pull all the members over. Instead they all have to pay if they want to come.... Yea I'm a bit disappointed
    This would never happen. If members cannot afford to come, then they can start over but to expect the GM to shell out 200$ vs (im just guessing 30$) would mean the service would never get used. I'm not gonna pay to transfer everyone else. If they don't want to come, why should I have to pay for it anyways? If they want to come, its still only 25$ to server transfer.
  1. rochedo's Avatar
    1. Blizzard make games to get money! That why they start to do it games for general public.
    2. Ofc, this kind of things have to be pay! 1st its a lot information to process and if something go wrong need a GM to fix it. That extra work can cost money. 2nd being paid is like a filter to ppl don't use it "every day" or everyone use it because their server herbs are to expensive or stupid things like that. So is 2 in one. More money and act like a CC.
    3. This kind of think was not Blizzard idea. People made A LOT of posts on Beta asking for this because is a lot of work have to tranfer a guild to other server. I remeber ppl telling to blizzard to make special features like GM pay a bit more and choose 25 players to go with guild for free. Also many ppl QQ about this on beta also because the gm power but my 4.
    4. GM can allready kick all guild, ninja gold and mats, transfer, or just change the name and create a new one. Nothing change.
    5. If you're on one guild for perks don't worry you go guild go away you will find easly other guild with same perks. And for finaly point. If you are on a guild you trust your GM will not ninja guild if you don't trust why are you there?
  1. KClovesGaming's Avatar
    It is another way to make money, but honestly how many guild leaders are going to actually guild transfer to another server? It's not likely to happen all that much anyways. Paying sucks, but at the same time at least that option will be available right?
  1. subanark's Avatar
    This is fine considering what a GM can already do. It would be nice if someone other than the guild leader can pay for the transfer though.

    However, I would really like to see a guild split option, where some players can branch off of a guild and keep all their perks (except any realm firsts, and bank tabs). If a guild does move servers, one should remain in place on the existing server, with the realm firsts, but no bank tabs. This way any players who don't or can't move still have their guild.

    Oh, and how long until we see a guild faction transfer :P
  1. Kashim's Avatar
    Incredible how cynical and pessimistic some of you are =/. Though I do understand some of the worries.

    I look forward to the blogs. Too bad it'll probably only further flood the official forums with QQ posts crying about the ideas GC tosses in to the air like he did with the hit rating thing for warriors.

    By no means do I want to play referee here but I do hope that genuine discussions on the ideas can occur and that any kind of "sky is falling" posts about the ideas get shot down hard. The official forums have become a barren wasteland in comparison to some other forums. These are relatively decent and enjoyable to read through.
  1. Hoyt's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by thegrza View Post
    The downside? It makes guilds a commodity - now someone can sell their level X guild, and the buyer can take it wherever they want and change the name to something they like.
    This is the only thing that might become a problem.
  1. Honeyprime's Avatar
    The Guild Transfer idea is very interesting. More than once I have thought about moving to a different server, but have always been stopped by the idea of losing everything associated with my guild. I hope this works.

    The Guild Name change is a good thing too imho. I wont use it as I am very happy with my guild name. But I know of others who would love the option to do so.

    Maybe in the future they will add Faction Change to that.
  1. chrisisvacant's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Keristrasza View Post
    It amazes me how many people are "Shocked" and "Disgusted" that a business is actually trying to make money and the last time I checked that is what a business did, make money. If blizzard didn't try to make money then you could kiss this game good bye, because I am pretty sure that they crew who works at blizzard aren't running all these kind of games and services for free out of the kindness of their own hearts. Such a perfect world does not exist.
    LOL, right? You can seriously tell who here has been weaned on the "customer is always right" idiom. Typical Western Civilization type feeling of complete entitlement. It's as if some of these youngsters think World of Warcraft is an all you can eat buffet - as much as you can handle for just $15 a month and we promise to keep you 100% satisfied forever! What the hell?

    People who are shocked and disgusted place too much importance on their WoW careers. I know that might be a cliche thing to say, but it seems to me that if I properly valued my time in WoW I would be able to make a decision to pay for extra features without much griping. Do I or don't I? Whatever the choice may be, I stand to profit either way. If I don't want the feature, I am not out the cash. If I do, I've got something special I didn't have before (be it an xfer, name change, race change, mount, pet). It's that simple.

    Perhaps this all shows that the general WoW community is of a younger age where things like respect and accountability are still forming. When someone gets gainfully employed and is a bit educated (either by sheer experience or simply college+), they tend to be a bit more pragmatic and have learned to expect things to have a price and to decide which things you need and which you want.
  1. greyghost's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by GhostSkull View Post
    Your guild membership is already at the pleasure of your leader. He doesn't need to change servers to dump you and place you on ignore.
    Exactly.

    And not to mention, guild leaders rarely "out of the blue" do stuff like this. It's largely up to you to have your BS detectors on when you notice something 'off' about one of your guild officers so you can proactively protect yourself from stuff like this. IE, cease donations to the guild bank and poke around for info among the officers if any are willing to talk to you. If you can't bring yourself to trust the officers enough with your stuff, then leave the guild.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yourcatdead View Post
    Okay this is to much.

    First the winged lion. I don't get it. Companies aren't suppose to want money.

    WTF?
    Teeheehee.

    Anyways, people have been requesting the ability to have paid guild transfers for years. If this is something you don't like the idea of using, then by all means don't use the service. And additionally the liklihood of the service causing you any sort of inconvenience is unlikely unless you like to sit around in guilds where you're routinely treated like crap in return for your efforts to contributing to the guild. Wherein that case, what on earth were you expecting to happen?

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