MMO-Champion - Guild Transfer & Guild Rename Services Coming, The View From 10,000 Feet
Guild Transfer & Guild Rename Services Coming
Originally Posted by Nethaera (Blue Tracker)
We want to give everyone an early heads-up regarding our plan to implement a guild relocation service for World of Warcraft. The idea is for a guild leader to be able to transfer a guild to another realm. The guild structure remains intact, including the guild leader, guild bank, ranks, and guild name (depending on availability).

Guild members who decide to relocate with their guild may initiate their own paid character transfer. Upon a successful transfer they will automatically be part of the guild when they first log into the new realm. Their guild rank and guild reputation will be intact.

Guild leaders who do not want a change of scenery may also choose to pick a new guild name using another new service. These services are in development and we will be providing additional details at a future point in time.

As with all of the features and services we offer, we intend to incorporate the guild relocation service in a way that will not disrupt the game play experience. Please note that this feature will require extensive internal testing, so you may see bits and pieces of the service appear on the public test realms. We'll announce further details at http://www.WorldofWarcraft.com .

Dev Watercooler: The View From 10,000 Feet
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker)
So how is the view from way up here? It’s great actually -- we’re really happy with how Cataclysm is going so far, and we have big surprises on the horizon. On the other hand, there are details you can see at ground level that you can’t make out from 10,000 feet.

When we started these blogs, the idea was to foster developer communication to the players without some of the inherent problems of posting in forums. Some players have pointed out recently, and we totally agree, that the blogs up until now have been from a very high vantage point. We looked for topics with universal interest that would feel important and newsworthy. That has worked overall, but we also feel like we’ve lost something from when I used to be down in the metaphorical trenches talking to players in the forums.

So we’re going to try something a little different. We’re going to unleash some blogs that are much more conversational and less proclamational (that's a word now). If we deliver on this, it will hopefully feel like you’re eavesdropping on our design meetings. You won’t always learn a lot about exciting new features coming to the game, but you will (ideally) learn something about the design process itself. (When we have big, exciting news to share, or ‘State of the Game’ style blogs, we’ll still do those as well.)

But to pull off this more casual blog style, let’s establish a few ground rules:

1) No promises. I’m going to be talking about a lot of things we might do or things we could do. You shouldn’t interpret this brainstorming as patch notes. Our creative process is insanely iterative. We might pitch dozens of ideas before we find one we like. That can be really exhausting if you’re not used to it. If you’re more interested in final decisions and not idea churn, then this style of blog won’t be for you.

2) Don’t read too much between the lines. I’m going to point out a lot of design flaws in our game. “Oh no! Goatcaller admitted WoW was deeply flawed! It’s shark-jumping time!” Look, Blizzard is very critical about our own designs. There is virtually nothing in World of Warcraft that could not be improved. That has always been the case and will continue to be the case. Just because I’m going to be sharing that more frankly with you doesn’t mean that the game now has more cracks in its foundation than it ever did. There is an old saying (misattributed, from what I understand, to Otto Bismarck) that laws are like sausages; it is best not seeing them being made. My old friend and mentor Bruce Shelley used to apply the same maxim to game design.

3) No complaints about the topic. If we didn’t have an interesting discussion about a topic recently, e.g. shaman mechanics, I’m not going to invent one. That doesn’t mean that the class is perfect, or that we don’t love shaman players, or that the shaman class has no direction, or that the class design is frozen in carbonite. I’m not going to keep hash marks next to every class and spec to make sure I’ve covered their "Very Important Issues" lately in a blog. World of Warcraft design being what it is, we’ll probably eventually get around to talking about everyone on here, but it may take weeks or months or years. My team is responsible for areas of the game including classes, items, encounters, trade skills, achievements, combat, and UI, so my blogs will probably stick to those topics.

Okay, all that preamble is out of the way now. I’ll probably refer back to it sometimes, if we have some players stomping all over the ground rules.

One topic we’ve been discussing lately is the role of Hit and Expertise on tank gear (or more precisely, plate tanking gear). The conventional wisdom is that Hit and Expertise are threat stats, and you may need to swap them out with some of your mitigation stats depending on the situation. Realistically, unless you severely overgear the content, we don’t think that is actually true. Tanks almost always worry about survival first and foremost, which totally makes sense, and are willing to trade off threat stats for better mitigation in almost all situations. It’s much harder to progress if the tank explodes than it is if the cat occasionally pulls aggro. (It’s not quite that simple, but I’m going to gloss over details and exceptions since I spent so much text on the preamble up above).

Once upon a time, taunts could miss, and so Hit was marginally more interesting than it is today. Once upon a time, having a boss parry your attacks could speed up its swing timer, which turned Expertise into a (often weak) survival stat. Boss parries felt very random though, both in the sense that sometimes the tank would suddenly take much more damage than anticipated and there was no easy way to know which bosses had parry speed up. (Today, you can assume none of them do.) Until recently, interrupts could miss, but asking a tank to stack a bunch of Hit just for those few opportunities when they were probably going to hit anyway but disaster would occur if they did not felt crummy too.

The problem is that there aren’t a lot of stats that are interesting to tanks. Stamina and Armor are great, but their stat budget is often in lockstep with item level. (It would be interesting to consider if we could make that not the case once again, but that’s the topic for another blog.) We got rid of Defense as a stat that tanks needed to worry about. We have managed to make Mastery pretty good to excellent for tanks, so that’s at least one stat they like to see. Dodge and (if you’re a plate-wearer) Parry are good, and slightly interesting because of talents like Hold the Line. But beyond that, it starts to go downhill. Sure Haste and Crit can sometimes be fun, but really they often aren’t worth the trade off. That leaves us with Hit and Expertise. We’d like to make them more interesting to tanks. But how?

One way is by turning them into defensive stats. They are defensive stats for Blood death knights, because the DK self-healing is tied into Death Strike, which can miss. It might be possible to do something similar for the other classes. Imagine if Shield Block had to actually hit the target. Presumably you raise your shield, but not high enough to intercept the incoming blow. Now hit becomes a mitigation stat for warriors as well. We might have to adjust the mitigation amount on Shield Block or give warriors a small Hit bonus so Hit capping wasn’t totally unreasonable, but you get the basic idea. You could do the same with paladins (make Holy Shield more interesting?) and druids as well (Savage Defense could proc on a hit).

Is this a good idea? We’re not sure yet. You won’t see this change in the 4.1 patch for certain. There are trade-offs to making Hit and Expertise more valuable. Gearing as a tank might be more fun for experienced players, but it also might be more challenging for less experienced players. The number of struggling tanks in your Dungeon Finder groups might go up. Some less knowledgeable players (and to be fair, this stuff doesn’t exactly explain itself on the character sheet) might stack Hit way too high at the expense of a more valuable mitigation stat, such as mastery.

It is the kind of thing we’re talking about though, and if you want to make a contribution to the tanking forums but aren’t quite sure on a topic, here is one potential possibility.

-Greg “Ghostcrawler” Street is the lead systems designer of World of Warcraft. He still has Buru’s Skull Fragment.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Guild Transfer & Guild Rename Services Coming, The View From 10,000 Feet started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 131 Comments
  1. Dewote's Avatar
    I think they won't come for a long long time.
    I belive it's a very complicated system, just look how long it took for faction change to implement.
  1. Verdris's Avatar
    Guilds already migrate servers, it happens frequently enough. Several "top" guilds from Blackwing Lair transferred off between the last few months of Wrath and the release of Cata. Now that we have the rep system and guild perks, this is a feature to keep that intact.

    i.e., Blizzard's only giving us good tools. Don't know why everyone's complaining about them.
  1. Ultimanium's Avatar
    Hit and Expertise. We’d like to make them more interesting to tanks. But how?

    One way is by turning them into defensive stats. They are defensive stats for Blood death knights, because the DK self-healing is tied into Death Strike, which can miss. It might be possible to do something similar for the other classes. Imagine if Shield Block had to actually hit the target. Presumably you raise your shield, but not high enough to intercept the incoming blow. Now hit becomes a mitigation stat for warriors as well. We might have to adjust the mitigation amount on Shield Block or give warriors a small Hit bonus so Hit capping wasn’t totally unreasonable, but you get the basic idea. You could do the same with paladins (make Holy Shield more interesting?) and druids as well (Savage Defense could proc on a hit).
    No. Just... no.

    Making abilities require stats that they didn't previously is not 'interesting'. It's a nerf. Nerfs are not interesting. Things like Hold the Line are interesting because they add strange and unusual bonuses to a stat you would have been gradually increasing anyways.
  1. Thlop's Avatar
    Why do server transfers still cost money? I thought this game was about being able to play with your friends.
  1. Insanoflex's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Thlop View Post
    Why do server transfers still cost money? I thought this game was about being able to play with your friends.
    so dont all join different servers..

    also the idiots who say companies are about making money lol.. there are plenty of non profit organizations so companies havent always been about money and greed. Blizzard went over the top when they profited on charitable vanity pets... this is just the way blizzard intend to go until another mmo can rival them. Its pretty simple either put up with it or quit like i have (i didnt quit because of any money related issues.. just shit updates, balance, and well the game in general).
  1. Xanwryn's Avatar
    I lol'd at how he called himself Goatcaller.
  1. Madarame's Avatar
    just remove hit and expertise alltogether. sucks to cap this shitness and trade all stats for them and have like 5% critchance in the end.
    doesn't make fun.
    it's a stat every DD needs and caps them therefore. every DD does it - it's mandatory. but why?
    it's a non-fun stat =) they made nonfun talents like +5% crit passive as you choose your tree.
    so why not make this shit passive or remove it.

    either way - i'm as good as out - since they canceled 4.1 raid...

    €: they'll charge for guildname changes. now Gamemasters do it for free.
  1. qwerty123456's Avatar
    Anyone else seeing the problems with the guild transfer? 65% of the leaders of guilds I have seen tend to be the most greedy dbags in the game. This is just begging for gms with tons of gold in the bank and all bank slots full to kick everyone but his buddies transfer to a new server and change the guild name and his name(which you get for free if the name is already taken). Not only that but he gets to keep all of his guild lvls basically screwing tens or hundreds of people out of their time to lvl the guild.
  1. bullseyed's Avatar
    I'm guessing Greg doesn't know that Blood DKs don't use hit or expertise.
  1. Fantastyk's Avatar
    like everything this has its pros and cons >< well just have to see how this plays out
  1. Kwickslash's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimanium View Post
    No. Just... no.

    Making abilities require stats that they didn't previously is not 'interesting'. It's a nerf. Nerfs are not interesting. Things like Hold the Line are interesting because they add strange and unusual bonuses to a stat you would have been gradually increasing anyways.
    They would compensate elsewhere. Don't think that Blizzard would nerf them to a point where they are unable to down content, content that they also spent time on developing.

    Having to change the way you play/gear your character slightly != a nerf as it is completely subjective.

    People that are lazy and don't want to put in any thought as to how to gear their characters would see this a nerf.

    Quote Originally Posted by Madarame View Post
    just remove hit and expertise alltogether. sucks to cap this shitness and trade all stats for them and have like 5% critchance in the end.
    doesn't make fun.
    Oh. So your definition of fun is the old WotLK model where we crit, dodge, block, etc, the majority of the time making those stats diminish in value rapidly forcing us to stack 1 stat entirely. Hell, while we're at it lets bring back ArP so all warriors, hunters and rogues are bottle-necked into specs and pass on the majority of gear despite it being an entire tier higher.
  1. erwil's Avatar
    I don't see the point for people to complain about the service. It was just a matter of time the paid guild transfer became available. I recently transferred to a different server, and I really hoped I could've brought my old guild with me. For those who are worried about the GM douchebagging and stealing everything and moving to another server.. Why are you in that kind of guild anyway? Why have you contributed to the guild bank if you don't trust the GM?
  1. Hoosiermama's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    Anyone else seeing the problems with the guild transfer? 65% of the leaders of guilds I have seen tend to be the most greedy dbags in the game. This is just begging for gms with tons of gold in the bank and all bank slots full to kick everyone but his buddies transfer to a new server and change the guild name and his name(which you get for free if the name is already taken). Not only that but he gets to keep all of his guild lvls basically screwing tens or hundreds of people out of their time to lvl the guild.
    don't join a guild run by dbags?

    the $25 is there to make sure everyone doesn't do it and that the decision to transfer actually matters. if guild and character transfers were free, we'd have even worse realm imbalance than now because even if there was a 3% difference people would leave the less populated side for another server.

    GMs would not offer guild name changes for free. they'd only do it if you got lucky or your guild name was offensive in any way. again, blizzard is using the fee to control how often people do it because it would be sheer madness if guilds could just change names and servers willy nilly.
  1. bullseyed's Avatar
    Because backend coding is totally done by the same people doing encounter design and 3D modeling.
    Because new 5/10/25 man content requires 3D modeling? They've been recycling models, skins and everything else for ages chief. Welcome to the party.
  1. antonatsis's Avatar
    ok you must understand something...the reason some people actually are bitching is because you are supposed to play the game and have all its merits for 15$/month the business model of the game is pay to play P2P(not peer to peer :P )the are many games that you supposedly don't have to pay the so called free to play F2P also those games are called fremium from the words free and premium now...those free to play games got the micro transaction system in them you pay some you get some you pay much you get much...what those people don't like is that while blizzard doesn't admit that follows the same path they do so...wow has micro transaction it always had its just that in the last couple of years it gone from mere things with major restrictions(server transfer once every 3 months or something like that)to major things like server/name/race/faction change without any restrictions also it has pets and mounts in a store for some people that's not good because even thought the game is promoted as a 15$/month for everything they learn that if you pay you can just vanish in the anonymity of wow now matter what you do
    now up till the day right before blizzard reported guild transfer if you had a lvl25 guild with perks and achievements even in a low population server or bad progression server they wont consider a server transfer due to all the hard work they have done in that guild...now you can just swap and make some players pay 25$ so they can keep being with their guild and no the argument you are a grownup you can decide not to go is not valid people that say say so just so they can have a somewhat valid argument...if you worked hard and made a name of yourself i a good guild you don't let it off easily anyway bottom line they way blizzard implement its micro transaction methods is very unethical and this comes from a wow fanboy(even thought i stopped wow for personal reasons)up till now it never made you actually pay for anything now some people might need to pay in order to keep playing the game they love they way they like it!
    anyway as the french say it
    Ce Est Lavie or something like that :P i just hope that no one of the supporters come in a situation that they might need to pay 25$ so they can just keep playing the game the way they like it!
  1. qwerty123456's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosiermama View Post
    don't join a guild run by dbags?

    the $25 is there to make sure everyone doesn't do it and that the decision to transfer actually matters. if guild and character transfers were free, we'd have even worse realm imbalance than now because even if there was a 3% difference people would leave the less populated side for another server.

    GMs would not offer guild name changes for free. they'd only do it if you got lucky or your guild name was offensive in any way. again, blizzard is using the fee to control how often people do it because it would be sheer madness if guilds could just change names and servers willy nilly.
    I never join guilds like that but i have know many friends who did. Im not saying it should be free im saying they shouldnt get to transfer the guild unless like half the guild and the gm ok it and those characters are locked into the guild for 5 months or something. A guildie of mine was saying that he had a friend who would armory guilds make a name like the gms, pretend to be them loot the bank sell the items and gold then delete the account. Everytime he would do this he would make 500$. Now imagine a group of 5-8 good raiders transfering servers and changing the guild name building a good rep up and getting lots of people to join then kicking them and selling everything those people got them. A 50$ fee isn't really that important when your making $2-3k a year from the hard work of others.
  1. ZeroWashu's Avatar
    Yeah for making tanks take stats they don't want. These guys really seem lost

    ---------- Post added 2011-03-23 at 07:07 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by LilSin View Post
    I can see the guild transfer going so horribly wrong.... Help!! Been hacked, my guild is gone! Along with out 500K golds, crafting mats gears..
    Assuming the guild leader tells people where he moved too, wonder if Blizzard will tell former members where their guild leader has gone.
  1. Prag's Avatar
    Clever way of saying "We didn't quite meet the mark for making Tanking less faceroll".
  1. bobty's Avatar
    In regards to tanking stats: I always assumed the next tier would place more emphasis on hit and expertise. Perhaps especially for shield tanks due to being able to reach full combat table coverage via block, parry and dodge(aka block capped/unhittable). This is something well geared Paladin tanks can only just about manage in current gear(this is the class I am familiar with so don't want to speculate for the other 3 tank classes)

    Either way:
    When defensive stats become strong for a given player they have more room to focus on getting hit and expertise capped. I would rather not see gimmicky mechanics that try and force this upon players, the other way this could be handled would be to give certain bosses mechanics that cause a wipe if the tank does not land specific hits. Regardless this would most certainly boil down to making tanking less enjoyable for up and coming tanks who are still in the process of gearing up for heroic 5 mans or raids.
  1. Buzzinjoe's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Vasz View Post
    So a GM can up-and-run to another server, change the guild name, his name, he race and faction?

    I guess this means that if your GM wants to move, he will move and take the guild bank with him. Maybe you are not making good enough progress and he wants to try another realm. While giving a GM this power, the small guys like us ..... lose all our guild perks.

    VERY bad idea IMO.
    What the fuck kind of guild are you in that you would even worry about that kind of stuff?

    If you're in a crap guild where you're worried the GM might take off just don't put anything in the gbank. That way if he ups and leaves you haven't lost anything bar guild rep and that'll be easier to gain in 4.1 so really, who gives a shit?

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