Patch 4.1 Preview -- Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker)
In patch 4.1 we'll be introducing Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms, a new system intended to lower queue times. Call to Arms will automatically detect which class role is currently the least represented in the queue, and offer them additional rewards for entering the Dungeon Finder queue and completing a random level-85 Heroic dungeon.

Any time the Dungeon Finder queue is longer than a few minutes for level-85 Heroics, the Call to Arms system kicks in and determines which role is the least represented. In the case of tanking being the least represented role, the "Call to Arms: Tanks" icon will display in the Dungeon Finder UI menu where class roles are selected, and will also display on the UI when the queue pops and you are selected to enter a dungeon. Regardless of your role, you'll always be able to see which role currently has been Called to Arms, if any.

Call to Arms is meant to lower wait times by offering additional rewards for queuing as the currently least represented role. To be eligible for the additional rewards you must solo queue for a random level-85 Heroic in the role that is currently being Called to Arms, and complete the dungeon by killing the final boss. Every time you hit these requirements (there is no daily limit) you'll receive a goodie bag that will contain some gold, a chance at a rare gem, a chance at a flask/elixir (determined by spec), a good chance of receiving a non-combat pet (including cross faction pets), and a very rare chance at receiving a mount. The pets offered come from a wide variety of sources, and include companions like the Razzashi Hatchling, Cockatiel, and Tiny Sporebat, but the mounts are those specifically only available through dungeons (not raids), like the Reins of the Raven Lord from Sethekk Halls, Swift White Hawkstrider from Magister's Terrace, and Deathcharger's Reins from Stratholme.

This system is meant to address the unacceptable queue times currently being experienced by those that queue for the DPS role at max level. The long queue times are, of course, caused by a very simple lack of representation in the Dungeon Finder by tanks, and to some extent healers. We don't feel the tanking and healing roles have any inherent issues that are causing the representation disparity, except that fulfilling them carries more responsibility. Understandably, players prefer to take on that responsibility in more organized situations than what the Dungeon Finder offers, but perhaps we can bribe them a little. While this system gives tanks and healers something extra, the incentive is being provided so that we can help players in the DPS role get into more dungeons, get better gear, and continue progressing.

While the gold, gems, flasks, and elixirs are OK incentives, we knew we needed something more substantial. We had briefly considered Valor Points and epics, but decided that wouldn't be working toward the goal of helping DPS players progress, and ultimately wouldn't keep tanks and healers in the Dungeon Finder system for very long. We settled on pets and dungeon-found mounts as they’re cosmetic/achievement items that players tend to try to get on their own, so why not change that up and offer them a chance to get some of those elusive pets and mounts in a way that also helps other players? Even if they don't get a pet or mount, or get one they already have, the gold and other goodies still feel rewarding enough that it won't feel like a waste of effort.

We think it's a pretty solid incentive to get tanks and healers queuing, give max-level players another way to collect the pets and mounts they so desire, and above all, to improve wait times for DPS players sitting in queues. In the case of lower level dungeons, it's actually not uncommon for DPS to be the least represented role, and so if this new system works out and we're pleased with the results, we may consider applying this same mechanic to lower level dungeons as well.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Patch 4.1 Preview -- Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 1855 Comments
  1. mmoccff815c062's Avatar
    The reason tanks don't pug enough is because of DPS with bad attitudes, so really it is bad DPS that have caused this to happen.
  1. Floboduck's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Badhairday View Post
    "We had briefly considered Valor Points and epics, but decided that wouldn't be working toward the goal of helping DPS players progress"
    Say, what? Valor Points and epics is WHY we queue for dungeons in the first place.

    And giving out mounts for doing nothing special at all is one of the worst changes I've seen yet. I like to actually work hard to get stuff, I don't really care for the mounts, I just get the awesome feeling of accomplishing something you've worked to get. Now anyone can get it when they're not even trying to, so the feeling of hard work is totally lost.
    The thing is with thie change, as a tank or a healer you have a more difficult role to play.

    Although i know a lot of good DPS i also have come across many that could only be classed as window licking morons. Try dealing with 3 tarded DPS as a tank or healer it's horrible.

    I am not saying we deserve anythign extra but some extra encouragement will help others. Most new people to the game instantly go DPS due to a lack of understanding of the other roles. We might see an increase in new people playing more useful roles and learning the game more.
  1. Bucky Mclachlan's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by ZEROWASHU View Post
    This system is meant to address the unacceptable queue times currently being experienced by those that queue for the DPS role at max level. The long queue times are, of course, caused by a very simple lack of representation in the Dungeon Finder by tanks, and to some extent healers. We don't feel the tanking and healing roles have any inherent issues that are causing the representation disparity, except that fulfilling them carries more responsibility.

    and they wonder why this solution won't make people happy or even fix the problem. The inherent issue is that its not fun, not in Cata anyway, where gratuitous damage is the game of the day and the only skill required is compensating for the bad players LFG gave you.
    No it's not. The issue is that I and other tanks and healers do not want the responsibility of leading random groups because we continuously get terrible groups that think this shit is actually hard and constantly wipe to it.
  1. mmoca46b34a3c5's Avatar
    If the drop rates are kept the same so the Barons mount is kept near impossable to get then this wont seem like a bad idea, but dps are the ones who waited 40 minutes for a dungeon so I dont see why tanks with their instant join are the ones who get all the rewards. Flasks and gems were a good idea but adding mounts is too much (And yes my main is a pure dps)
  1. Skippert's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by IKT View Post
    I play a tank but after non-stop hearing DPS qq about queue times, to suddenly have them do a 180 backflip is hilarious.
    Yeah because if others get more than them, ALL OF A SUDDEN it's horrible and they forget they actually get advantage out of it as well. But ofcourse it's unfair, SO they rather waste extra time than that tanks get a bit more loot. Because ofcourse, that's MUCH worse than shortening queue times. It's typical negative problematic thinking, typical for depressed teenager emo kids (offence!) that apparently are still scattered around the mmo-champ forums, even after 3-6 years. I was already planning to stop WoW after 6 years. The gameplay remains too slow/static/passive and the "addiction for the wrong reasons stuff" like loot etc. are not enough to compensate the boring gameplay anymore. Seeing the community not grow up much (at least here) is even more motivation to stop playing. They won't miss me, I won't miss them. I miss my guild a small bit, but even the social aspect of WoW isn't enough anymore to keep me playing. It's time to quit!

    Here's for 1 less DPS in the queue, shorter queus for the rest
  1. Rawt's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Skippert View Post
    What the hell are you talking about? This is about PVE dungeons and you complain about PVP, why here? Why not 3 months ago? These are the typical people that when you try to give a part of the solution, they only start complaining more than they did before, about something totally unrelated. I feel sad for you man, such a complaining lifestyle must be very depressing...
    You're an idiot if you don't see the correlation.
  1. Bucky Mclachlan's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Pacster View Post
    I think that one will backfire. Healers and tanks will only join the queue when they are being called to arms(hey, if you just have to wait 15 additional minutes for the chance for rare pets and mounts, who wouldn't?). So it's easily possible that this will actually increase waiting times.
    No it's not, there will never be more tanks queuing than dps by virtue of the fact that you need more dps in each dungeon group than healers or tanks.
  1. Ninetyseven's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryukaa View Post
    okay i see the point of 2 out of the 3 "examples" are limited to only-DPS-Classes.
    Lets see, the average Pug takes... 30-40 minutes.
    I personally can go 3-4 PuG´s in a row at MAXIMUM since they are, sometimes, exhausting.
    After that i take a break for 1-1.5 hours.
    Even if i would Tank a whole Saturday (roughly 12-14 Hours excluding, sleep, toilet, eating, etc) i could roughly do 12-14 Heroics (counting 1 Hour for heroic + eventual break).
    So i got 14 chanches for Mounts that day.
    Lets see. Sethekk 10 minutes, MGT 10-20 minutes, Stratholme 5-8 minutes.
    so you need roughly 2 Hours and 6 minutes for 14 chanches, although the ratio for each mount is different.


    And lets not forget tanks can in addition do these 2 tbc hcs in addition to their CtA. =) but you basicly rapped it all up yep.
  1. Floboduck's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Pacster View Post
    The tanks already have been able to farm those mounts a darn lot longer than most cloth classes. The reality is that in soloing tanks have an advantage over dds like Shadow for example. Now they get even more advantages. On the other hand: Farming mounts and pets got pretty uninteresting anyway given how inflationary blizz pumps them out with each patch and via store and events. I mean, there are likely about 150 pets and 200 mounts in the game already.
    To the shadow DPS, i say go Holy! :P

    But yeah i see your point, i sitll think this is a welcome change for people playing DPS classes.
  1. GroudleIOM's Avatar
    This will NOT shorten queues for DPS. Think about it, a tank who regularly does 5 mans with a guild or friends will not get the bonuses so he will be more likely to break away and queue solo for the rewards. This leaves 3 more DPS likely to queue in the dungeon finder. Whichever way you look at it, this idea is ridiculous. Tanks already get a benefit that they dont have to wait. It just works at the moment. A DPS knows that they have to wait and they accept that. I dont see it as a problem at all.
  1. mmoc8e13fe598c's Avatar
    I like this alot :P
  1. Authary's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by IKT View Post
    I play a tank but after non-stop hearing DPS qq about queue times, to suddenly have them do a 180 backflip is hilarious.
    It's like the "insane difficulty" in heroic dungeons. Normal players don't whine when there's nothing to whine about. So you can't hear them.
  1. Bucky Mclachlan's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Bennydabull View Post
    You're an idiot if you don't see the correlation.
    While we're tossing out insults, might wanna go back and time and read the blue posts from weeks ago about how they were adding ways for PVP guilds to get guild experience from winning bgs and getting hks. Idiot.
  1. wiIdi's Avatar
    wow should be less about cosmetic mount/minipet nerdfest and more about pew pew
  1. IKT's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Bennydabull View Post
    You're an idiot if you don't see the correlation.
    Why are you here? Go back to PVPing you 900 rating PVP pro.
  1. GroudleIOM's Avatar
    This will NOT shorten queues for DPS. Think about it, a tank who regularly does 5 mans with a guild or friends will not get the bonuses so he will be more likely to break away and queue solo for the rewards. This leaves 3 more DPS likely to queue in the dungeon finder. Whichever way you look at it, this idea is ridiculous. Tanks already get a benefit that they dont have to wait. It just works at the moment. A DPS knows that they have to wait and they accept that. I dont see it as a problem at all.
  1. mmocda03c422ba's Avatar
    I am on the fence with this change. I only ever play my warlock so although the potentiality (yes potentiality not guaranteed) of less time spent queuing does sound good, at the same time I feel like I'm missing out a bit on the benefits of this feature in terms of special rewards (mounts etc.). This is only a minor issue though as all of the items are available elsewhere and if I ever did roll a tank/healer it's always there. Although this idea sounds good in principle, I still think it has some fundamental flaws which will no doubt be complained about to no end when it hits. The main problem I see happening has been mentioned by a few people on this thread being anyone who can que a tank, regardless of whether they have a decent spec/are geared for tanking, will que as a tank during call to arms for tank, (which will be 75% + of the time lets face it). Insta-ques are enough of an incentive for this to happen every so often atm, with insta-ques and extra rewards and prospect of mounts I think this problem could escalate. The other problem I see happening could be tanks and healers waiting for a call to arms to do their daily HC. Personally if I was a tank and I planned on doing a HC, I would wait for the inevitable time that there is a call to arms and I get extra loot, why would I bother queing at any other time? This makes me think that we could have situations where if a tank call to arms isnt up yet, tanks dont bother signing, would this mean you get pockets of time where the ques are completely outrageous then when the call to arms hits they go down?

    I am happy that Blizzard are trying to address the issue of DPS que times, and this system sounds like an interesting way to tackle it that could work. But at the end of the day people will try and break the system for personal benefit, either by tanking because they are class eligible but without the gear/spec/experience for the job, or people who are capable of filling these roles just not bothering until the inevitable time that extra rewards are available to them is up. I want to hear from Blizzard how they plan on making sure this system doesnt fix one problem and generate more in its place.
  1. xtsu's Avatar
    as a tank... I like the idea. Already I see people wanting to switch to the tanking class. If their goal was to put more tanks into the system, then they succeeded.
  1. Skippert's Avatar
    A DPS knows that they have to wait and they accept that.
    Same here, but apparently many people complained about the 40mins queue times, even though they're not forced to play DPS and have full freedom to go tank/heal. Apart from that the system is already tons better than before where you sometimes could not even FIND a damn tank, because all you could do is spam-chat on 1 server, your own server. At least now you can actually FIND a tank, be it after 30-45mins. People complain man, people see problems, people don't come with solutions. When you give em nothing, you don't hear em complain. When you give em a carrot, all of a sudden they want two. Fuck that. Let them whine, they're not worth your time.
  1. Bucky Mclachlan's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeljo View Post
    oh and you want free rare mounts/pets? fun... yes they are rare but you don't even have to freaking fly to the instance and do it
    Again for the 100th time. WHAT THE FUCK IS FREE ABOUT THIS?

Site Navigation