MMO-Champion - Patch 4.1 Preview -- Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms
Patch 4.1 Preview -- Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker)
In patch 4.1 we'll be introducing Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms, a new system intended to lower queue times. Call to Arms will automatically detect which class role is currently the least represented in the queue, and offer them additional rewards for entering the Dungeon Finder queue and completing a random level-85 Heroic dungeon.

Any time the Dungeon Finder queue is longer than a few minutes for level-85 Heroics, the Call to Arms system kicks in and determines which role is the least represented. In the case of tanking being the least represented role, the "Call to Arms: Tanks" icon will display in the Dungeon Finder UI menu where class roles are selected, and will also display on the UI when the queue pops and you are selected to enter a dungeon. Regardless of your role, you'll always be able to see which role currently has been Called to Arms, if any.

Call to Arms is meant to lower wait times by offering additional rewards for queuing as the currently least represented role. To be eligible for the additional rewards you must solo queue for a random level-85 Heroic in the role that is currently being Called to Arms, and complete the dungeon by killing the final boss. Every time you hit these requirements (there is no daily limit) you'll receive a goodie bag that will contain some gold, a chance at a rare gem, a chance at a flask/elixir (determined by spec), a good chance of receiving a non-combat pet (including cross faction pets), and a very rare chance at receiving a mount. The pets offered come from a wide variety of sources, and include companions like the Razzashi Hatchling, Cockatiel, and Tiny Sporebat, but the mounts are those specifically only available through dungeons (not raids), like the Reins of the Raven Lord from Sethekk Halls, Swift White Hawkstrider from Magister's Terrace, and Deathcharger's Reins from Stratholme.

This system is meant to address the unacceptable queue times currently being experienced by those that queue for the DPS role at max level. The long queue times are, of course, caused by a very simple lack of representation in the Dungeon Finder by tanks, and to some extent healers. We don't feel the tanking and healing roles have any inherent issues that are causing the representation disparity, except that fulfilling them carries more responsibility. Understandably, players prefer to take on that responsibility in more organized situations than what the Dungeon Finder offers, but perhaps we can bribe them a little. While this system gives tanks and healers something extra, the incentive is being provided so that we can help players in the DPS role get into more dungeons, get better gear, and continue progressing.

While the gold, gems, flasks, and elixirs are OK incentives, we knew we needed something more substantial. We had briefly considered Valor Points and epics, but decided that wouldn't be working toward the goal of helping DPS players progress, and ultimately wouldn't keep tanks and healers in the Dungeon Finder system for very long. We settled on pets and dungeon-found mounts as they’re cosmetic/achievement items that players tend to try to get on their own, so why not change that up and offer them a chance to get some of those elusive pets and mounts in a way that also helps other players? Even if they don't get a pet or mount, or get one they already have, the gold and other goodies still feel rewarding enough that it won't feel like a waste of effort.

We think it's a pretty solid incentive to get tanks and healers queuing, give max-level players another way to collect the pets and mounts they so desire, and above all, to improve wait times for DPS players sitting in queues. In the case of lower level dungeons, it's actually not uncommon for DPS to be the least represented role, and so if this new system works out and we're pleased with the results, we may consider applying this same mechanic to lower level dungeons as well.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Patch 4.1 Preview -- Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 1871 Comments
  1. lios's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Idria View Post
    Ye and it will be the "hybrid tax" shit all over just the other way around this time where hybrids can get rewards where pure's cant, good going
    Your reward is more HCs in less time, which equals more loot, more gold and more points and also more free time to farm pets and mounts (giving you probably the same chance at those pets and mounts as tanks have in HCs in the same amount of time).
  1. Skippert's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Idria View Post
    Ye and it will be the "hybrid tax" shit all over just the other way around this time where hybrids can get rewards where pure's cant, good going
    Hybrids for the win
    Even though there aren't any TRUE hybrids. There's no spec with a DPS+HEAL role, it's a DPS OR heal role.
    Hybrids have been a utopia throughout the game.
  1. Recoverus's Avatar
    They obviously gave this about 5 seconds thought :/

    * As a tank why would I put myself through the sheer torment and repair bills that is running PuG heroics for the small chance of a flask or a mount that I can grind anyway? I won't ... I'll still avoid PuG's like the plague and only tank for my guild. If I want the mount, I'll take the far more relaxed route of soloing Sethekk Halls, MgT Heroic or Stratholme.

    * Instead of waiting a bit and generally getting a main-spec tank, the groups will now be faced with off-spec, borderline geared, inexperienced players who've cobbled together some random tanking pieces and queued themselves as tank because they just want the mounts.

    Another knee-jerk, random decision from Blizzard that hasn't been thought through properly.
  1. Skippert's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Ceirus View Post
    To all you guys that are saying "tanks already get instant que, wtf??? what do I get? IM pure dps, i want mounts too" THEY ARE MAKING THIS CHANGE TO HELP THE DPS. I don't understand how you think the dps is somehow getting screwed. The que times will drop for the dps. Would you rather them not do SHIT to help the que times and no one get anything? That shows how screwed up some of the wow players are, you sound like some of the most selfish and greedy people to ever play a video game. You would rather have everyone suffer if you can't get a damn goody bag. Wtf has happened to this game's community?
    Are you surprised? WoW obviously still has a large kiddo-playerbase
  1. Ryukaa's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Skippert View Post
    Hybrids for the win
    Even though there aren't any TRUE hybrids. There's no spec with a DPS+HEAL role, it's a DPS OR heal role.
    Hybrids have been a utopia throughout the game.
    My Enhancement Shaman (Alt) can Throw Healing Rain without mana costs and still have decent DPS, also i got Healing Stream totem
    Does that count?
  1. Idria's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by lios View Post
    Your reward is more HCs in less time, which equals more loot, more gold and more points and also more free time to farm pets and mounts (giving you probably the same chance at those pets and mounts as tanks have in HCs in the same amount of time).
    No, currently I queue up with guild mates instead of solo queue so both guild mates get gear/JP and guild xp, and tanks in guild wont have to bother with random huntard or dk pulling crap playing in wrong stance/presence so both of us earn on it
  1. Gandilf's Avatar
    I welcome this new feature even though I still don't see this as being to ultimate solution.

    As I first rolled a DK it was entirely for the Unholy DPS but I soon found out that the queue time was insane for a DPS so I choose to make him tank which has instant queues.

    Now the "problem" is that for most people DPS is more fun. The new rewards might make some people with a tank-class to do 1-2 more HC but it still won't solve it in the long run. - Not to mention that those tank-chars might not have any items with tanking stats.

    I feel that every person the plays a tank-class should be in some way forced to play as a tank. That goes for healers as well. I very often see tank/healer classes not having a OS as that role but using two DPS specs or none at all which in some configuration can be frustrating. - The funny thing is when a low geared tank don't have a dps spec and can't go dps for an encounter where his/her skills/gear just aren't good enough and another DPS might have the gear/skills to make it through so it goes both ways.
  1. Skippert's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryukaa View Post
    My Enhancement Shaman (Alt) can Throw Healing Rain without mana costs and still have decent DPS, also i got Healing Stream totem
    Does that count?
    Not enough imo, it's not like you have an offhealer role. With retribution paladins, we had the 3 holypower insta heal to support the healers. It was just a small help, but you had to make the choice between more DPS or the support healing. They could have done much more with it imo and it was pretty cool to support heal, but they restricted it with a cooldown. There's no class ingame that intelligently makes choices between 2 different large parts of their role, in a fight. All classes have some group buffs and misc stuff, but no class REALLY can serve multiple roles in a bossfight. Bear/kitten is probably the only example. Retridins/enhancement shamans should (in my opinion) be much more designed to be a DPS/healer hybrid instead of a mostly DPS role. It's not that they should do less DPS, but they should be ABLE to make the choice in a fight, between good DPS, or good healing. A hybrid should afterall be flexible. But he, that's way too progressive for the conservative WoW developerteam.
  1. Ceirus's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Skippert View Post
    Are you surprised? WoW obviously still has a large kiddo-playerbase
    I'm not surprised, it's just sad really. There's a group of players out there that want to keep the game from evolving for their own damn greed of having a "goody bag". I've been waiting 35 minutes for a que to pop, bring the change asap, I actually enjoy playing the game.
  1. Destrina's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Zalavaaris View Post
    YAY! I am so excited that they are giving tanks all these awesome incentives AND instant the queue times they already have so us dps can have an acceptable queue time? If the group has to wait for someone to "fill the least represented role" then I feel everyone in that group should get a "goodie bag". We are a group for a reason; we are a team! We do not sit around while the "least represented role" does all the work! This promotes the idea that the least represented role (we know these as tanks) are more important than the rest of us.
    Barring enrage timers and a few fight mechanics (example: Drahga), I don't need any DPS to kill a boss. Just a healer.

    Barring a few specific specs on a few specific bosses, you need a tank to kill the boss.

    I have all the gear I could ever want from heroics. I have no incentive to do them. Instant queue times aren't an incentive when nothing drops from any instance that I want and I have all the heirlooms for all my lowbies, except a few trinkets. Really expensive ore/enchanting mats/leather/etc. is not an incentive either.

    I've been farming these 3 mounts in particular for years (4 years in the case of deathcharger). That is an incentive for me to queue again.
  1. Drekmar's Avatar
    The solution is : REROLL AND TANK YOURSELF.
  1. Cirque's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Nest View Post
    After this we will see a lot more tanks who don't know how to tank... Yay.
    Then take a moment of your time and explain to him/her what s/he can do or change to be a bit better. If everyone would do this, just imagine. Of course, with kindness and patience. Does it really matter all that much to wipe a few times on the fire boss in BRC because he's unsure how to tank it? Is it such a disaster if he loses aggro on an offtarget? Ask for a skull. Explain the mechanic of the fire and the adds. Explain the benefits of mouseturning and keybinds. Explain him! Stop complaining, start the action!
  1. Ryukaa's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandilf View Post
    I welcome this new feature even though I still don't see this as being to ultimate solution.

    As I first rolled a DK it was entirely for the Unholy DPS but I soon found out that the queue time was insane for a DPS so I choose to make him tank which has instant queues.

    Now the "problem" is that for most people DPS is more fun. The new rewards might make some people with a tank-class to do 1-2 more HC but it still won't solve it in the long run. - Not to mention that those tank-chars might not have any items with tanking stats.

    I feel that every person the plays a tank-class should be in some way forced to play as a tank. That goes for healers as well. I very often see tank/healer classes not having a OS as that role but using two DPS specs or none at all which in some configuration can be frustrating. - The funny thing is when a low geared tank don't have a dps spec and can't go dps for an encounter where his/her skills/gear just aren't good enough and another DPS might have the gear/skills to make it through so it goes both ways.
    So a Fury Warrior that Raids and also Does PvP as Arms should get one of his specs deleted for a Tanking Specc?
    Please think such things through before posting
  1. imagine's Avatar
    Jesus so many cry babies, just quit the game if you dont like it, nobody is forceing you to stay.
  1. DrahkenKahn's Avatar
    Since I, as a dps, won't ever get the goodie bag, I'm trying to not dwell on that so much and focus on the other aspect. As people are saying, yes, it will lower queue times for DPS, but also encourage people who have no idea what they're doing to tank. Just my personal preference, but I'd rather spend 40 minutes waiting in a queue for a tank who knows what they're doing and can run us through with minimal trouble, than only wait 10 or even 5 minutes in queue for an idiot who wipes us on an easy boss 8 times in a row. A terrible dungeon run ends up being longer and A LOT more frustrating (not to mention expensive) than a long queue. Plus, I can do other stuff while I wait in a queue, which isn't true of dying repeatedly. I once was stuck in a Grim Batol group with a terrible tank and healer pair who were guildies. They were both awful; undergeared, unskilled, and not seeming to know fight mechanics. And they didn't speak English. We wiped 8 times in a row on Drahga Shadowburner alone. Eventually we even tried to tell them "skip boss" but they either didn't understand or refused and just kept pulling. They obviously wouldn't kick each other, and being it was the middle of the night and less people were on, each of the three times we managed to kick the tank, the replacement was him again. Eventually we were able to time it so we managed to kick them both at the same time, we got new people, and we killed the boss and then Erudax within 10 minutes. The entire run took about two hours. Even if a queue is 40 minutes and the run is 40 minutes, that's only and hour twenty as opposed to a two hour nightmare after a short (but still existent) queue. This is the kind of thing I fear happening more often and the issue I'm more concerned with.

    A quick note on the bags themselves. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little sore about not getting them, but I'm trying not to be.
  1. BeerWolf's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky Mclachlan View Post
    I take it you're one of those terrible dpsers that can't get in a decent guild, has to sit through 40 minute queues every day only to miss the queue when it pops and you've gone to the bathroom, and then when you finally get in you get kicked for being terrible.

    Cuz you sound mad bro, and why on earth would you be mad about this unless you're bad?
    Actually, I'm a healer on me main... tyvm - and a perfectly competent one at that.
  1. Skippert's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Drekmar View Post
    The solution is : REROLL AND TANK YOURSELF.
    Yep and this (or healer reroll/re/dualspec) has been the solution since the introduction of the great LFG system, but people want everything for nothing.
  1. Cirque's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandilf View Post
    I welcome this new feature even though I still don't see this as being to ultimate solution.

    As I first rolled a DK it was entirely for the Unholy DPS but I soon found out that the queue time was insane for a DPS so I choose to make him tank which has instant queues.

    Now the "problem" is that for most people DPS is more fun. The new rewards might make some people with a tank-class to do 1-2 more HC but it still won't solve it in the long run. - Not to mention that those tank-chars might not have any items with tanking stats.

    I feel that every person the plays a tank-class should be in some way forced to play as a tank. That goes for healers as well. I very often see tank/healer classes not having a OS as that role but using two DPS specs or none at all which in some configuration can be frustrating. - The funny thing is when a low geared tank don't have a dps spec and can't go dps for an encounter where his/her skills/gear just aren't good enough and another DPS might have the gear/skills to make it through so it goes both ways.

    So how would you force them? Most hybrid players, excepting dks and warrors, try healer or tank at some point. The truth of the matter is that some people love moonkin and spriest as much as I love my warlock. I have a DK for tanking purposes, however, I find the "new" blood tanking to be annoying and not fun at all (used to be DW frost), and am now considering to either reroll fulltime dps or to just shelf her. How would you force me to play it as tank again? I haven't touched her in weeks, anyway, as I'm undecided.

    In return however, I rerolled my druid to be feral tank (with MS resto), instead of cat, so I still have a tank. Because people who like tanking will eventually go back to the role, and people who hated it should have no business ever tanking again.
  1. smiiiff's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by gorkos View Post
    so this will only apply to tanks ? as a dps you have no chance what so ever of getting the call to arms, and healers it will be rare........

    this is dumb
    Dending on the time of day and the day of the week I get plenty of instant dungeons with my healer.
    It's quite smart to be honest. I hardly tank heroics with my bear and hardly heal heroics with my priest, shammy or pala because even with the 15% bonus damage and health, pugs are a lot more work than guild groups. If I get a instant queue with the call to arms mechanic, i'll pug tank/heak heroics more often, because a better balance of amount of work and reward.

    I find all the DPS crying out here strange. If you want to do something about the queues, roll a tank or healer. If you aren't part of the solution, why would you ever get the reward?
  1. Keil's Avatar
    This does not change one of the primary reasons that there are few tanks in the current queues. Bad players will still be bad. For me I cannot fathom dragging a group through a dungeon for an hour or more just for the 'chance' of a mount or pet.

    If I enjoyed that type of mental abuse I would still be participating in the LFD queue.

    Enjoy all the noobie tanks.

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