Patch 4.1 Preview -- Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker)
In patch 4.1 we'll be introducing Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms, a new system intended to lower queue times. Call to Arms will automatically detect which class role is currently the least represented in the queue, and offer them additional rewards for entering the Dungeon Finder queue and completing a random level-85 Heroic dungeon.

Any time the Dungeon Finder queue is longer than a few minutes for level-85 Heroics, the Call to Arms system kicks in and determines which role is the least represented. In the case of tanking being the least represented role, the "Call to Arms: Tanks" icon will display in the Dungeon Finder UI menu where class roles are selected, and will also display on the UI when the queue pops and you are selected to enter a dungeon. Regardless of your role, you'll always be able to see which role currently has been Called to Arms, if any.

Call to Arms is meant to lower wait times by offering additional rewards for queuing as the currently least represented role. To be eligible for the additional rewards you must solo queue for a random level-85 Heroic in the role that is currently being Called to Arms, and complete the dungeon by killing the final boss. Every time you hit these requirements (there is no daily limit) you'll receive a goodie bag that will contain some gold, a chance at a rare gem, a chance at a flask/elixir (determined by spec), a good chance of receiving a non-combat pet (including cross faction pets), and a very rare chance at receiving a mount. The pets offered come from a wide variety of sources, and include companions like the Razzashi Hatchling, Cockatiel, and Tiny Sporebat, but the mounts are those specifically only available through dungeons (not raids), like the Reins of the Raven Lord from Sethekk Halls, Swift White Hawkstrider from Magister's Terrace, and Deathcharger's Reins from Stratholme.

This system is meant to address the unacceptable queue times currently being experienced by those that queue for the DPS role at max level. The long queue times are, of course, caused by a very simple lack of representation in the Dungeon Finder by tanks, and to some extent healers. We don't feel the tanking and healing roles have any inherent issues that are causing the representation disparity, except that fulfilling them carries more responsibility. Understandably, players prefer to take on that responsibility in more organized situations than what the Dungeon Finder offers, but perhaps we can bribe them a little. While this system gives tanks and healers something extra, the incentive is being provided so that we can help players in the DPS role get into more dungeons, get better gear, and continue progressing.

While the gold, gems, flasks, and elixirs are OK incentives, we knew we needed something more substantial. We had briefly considered Valor Points and epics, but decided that wouldn't be working toward the goal of helping DPS players progress, and ultimately wouldn't keep tanks and healers in the Dungeon Finder system for very long. We settled on pets and dungeon-found mounts as they’re cosmetic/achievement items that players tend to try to get on their own, so why not change that up and offer them a chance to get some of those elusive pets and mounts in a way that also helps other players? Even if they don't get a pet or mount, or get one they already have, the gold and other goodies still feel rewarding enough that it won't feel like a waste of effort.

We think it's a pretty solid incentive to get tanks and healers queuing, give max-level players another way to collect the pets and mounts they so desire, and above all, to improve wait times for DPS players sitting in queues. In the case of lower level dungeons, it's actually not uncommon for DPS to be the least represented role, and so if this new system works out and we're pleased with the results, we may consider applying this same mechanic to lower level dungeons as well.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Patch 4.1 Preview -- Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 1855 Comments
  1. Subsistence's Avatar
    While I applaud blizzard for trying to find new ways to reduce that queue time for DPS, i have to question whether this is going too far. Additional gold, gems, elixirs, and maybe even a few Non-combat pets are one thing, but allowing them to just randomly get 5 man mounts is a little ridiculous. it extremely diminishes the value of having these mounts and makes it so these classes (that could have soloed the content far sooner than pure DPS classes) are getting another "bite at the apple". I admit i don't have an alternate solution to reducing queue time but mounts are a step too far.
  1. varstjasol's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Luminar View Post
    I spent days grinding to get some of those pets and mounts.

    Countless mobs had their lives taken by my blade.

    And now... this.

    *eyelid twitch*

    Goddamnitsomuch.

    Edit: Waaaaait wait WHY IS THERE A REP PET LISTED? This leads me to believe that either they're joking or insane. I swear, if you can get a Hyacinth Macaw from this thing, I'm gonna bust a nut.
    I'm going to spend hours killing countless mobs in order to try and get the mounts. Sounds about the same situation for the both of us. Only you can farm the pets/mounts faster solo.
  1. Airwaves's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknourishh View Post
    BULLLLLLL SHEEEEEET i go to sethekk halls every day for over a year + all the bullsheeet quest chain from swift flight form and now this it was bad enough when they made it so anzu didn't have to be summoned.
    Well i went in there 2x and got mount lol
  1. mrwisdom's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Scratches View Post
    To you and everyone else regurgitating this: Really? You know this for a fact? How?
    No no, I'm genuinely curious; especially seeing as even Blizzard said they're just hoping that this can fix the problem.

    Blizzard seems to be exuding this mantra of always taking the easy route, as of late. Kinda sad really, I think.
    If you're gonna do something, do it right or don't do it at all... (and the 'right way' is almost always incongruent with the 'easy way')
    Queue time will drop because i will go from never queuing as i don't need valour points and sitting in org to "hey i might a mount and im bored ill do a heroic"
  1. Raiderhero's Avatar
    First off. I raid dps. I also run random heroic as heals on my main as well as tank them on my druid and dk. I do not dps due to the long que times unless im farming and dont care about the wait.

    1. I think this is a great attempt to fix an ongoing issue. Notice i didnt say this is a great idea? Thats because even though i love the attempt to fix it i dont think it will or at least will have a small effect on the issue. To start it will look like the issue has been fixed cause dps que times will go down and i think to around 10 minutes. But once that happens more dps are going to start running randoms again which will cause the ques to go back up.

    2. If your going to post something about how this idea is bull and blizzard isnt really doing anything to fix it, you should also post how they should actually go about fixing it. You know why you dont? Cause you dont know either. The problem remains that this isnt wrath and heroics can actually be tough if you are in a group with fail players. Back in wrath you could as a healer totally cary a crap group of players cause you never ran out of mana. This isnt the case anymore.

    3. You pure dps people are screaming left and right about how you are getting *ucked over by the rewards being giving to call to arms. You arent loosing something that you already get now are you? You wanted shorty ques didnt you? You dont want to tank or heal do you? Then what the *uck are you complaining about. Its some soso rewards that will help the problem at least somewhat. At this point anything is worth a shot.

    4. Lots of people saying they know for sure this wont work. (same people that have no clue how to fix it either lol) If players are willing to fly ride or run to an oldschool raid or instance to run through it in the hopes to get a mount over and over and over and over X 100 then why wouldnt they be willing to run a random heroic for a chance at the same thing. Plus some extra crap. It will work. How well its going to work is still the question.

    5. Regardless if you like this idea or not you have to at least like the fact that blizzard is willing to try something to fix it. Im just excited about the possibility to finally be able to gear up my hunter without having to wait an hour in between groups.
  1. 4Elêmentz's Avatar
    Eventhough I find this to be a strange attempt to fix the issue, I'm glad they ARE trying to do something about it.
    ---
    People in general, can do something about it aswell instead of just whining about the ammount of tanks/healers out there. Blizzard shouldnt have the need to implement changes like this.
    I prefer playing as dps, I'll admit that. However, any class i queue up with is always a tank of healer if that class have the option for it. I cannot be arsed to wait around for a queue when I can run the instance right away.

    Examples:
    My ele shammy is always resto in HC's (same gear, so its a win/win for both me and the dps queue'ing out there)
    My DK is blood in HC's.

    then we have others:
    Druid, moonkin (resto HC) // feral (tank in HC)
    Warrior (tank in HC)
    Pally (tank/healer in HC)
    Priest (healer in HC)

    Starting to understand this by now?
    Either you sit on your ass, waiting for the queue.. or you make a contribution to the RDF-tool and queue as something thats needed if you have the option.
    As long as your not a "pure" you dont have anything to bitch about (and in all fairness, even the "pures" shouldnt bitch about this change either as it is intended to help them).
    ---
    Edit: Didnt see Raiderhero's post before mine wich brings out my point in a great way.
  1. artemishunter1's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by huldu View Post
    Exactly. It's a design flaw in the game. They can never fix it without remaking the entire game. Pointing it out again... tanking or rather the dungeons in wotlk were somewhat "easy" for the average player. That translated into short queues for dps. Blizzard stepped up and thought "let's make it harder". There's your problem. The average player just can't handle it. This means less tanks and healers. It has nothing to do with the "rewards" thus this "fix" won't do anything. At best you might get some weird players that want the rewards but let me tell you, they are FEW(in reality/game).

    Why don't i like this "fix"? Well beside the obvious i don't consider this a fix. I am just concerned that Blizzard have *wasted* a ton of time thinking/developing this where they could have spent the time to actually FIX the problem. They know what the problem is. They are just looking the other way.
    The only true way to fix the que system is to remove every mobs and ccs and jsut put only bosses that does not need any form of interrupt. Just tank and spank fights. that would encourage more tanks
    Another way to solve would be if blizz mailed legendary item of 4 million lvl(like heirloom items),when a toon reaches highest lvl of the game. so u never have to replace gears and look for gears.
    another way would be to remove the tanking and heal role entirely and make everyone dps and giving bosses 1 dmg from each attack(us having less health to balance offcoure)
  1. Freese's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Scratches View Post
    To you and everyone else regurgitating this: Really? You know this for a fact? How?
    No no, I'm genuinely curious; especially seeing as even Blizzard said they're just hoping that this can fix the problem.

    Blizzard seems to be exuding this mantra of always taking the easy route, as of late. Kinda sad really, I think.
    If you're gonna do something, do it right or don't do it at all... (and the 'right way' is almost always incongruent with the 'easy way')
    So what is this "right" way then?
  1. Negrido's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    Oh my. I want to use that as a signature, but it would put mine over the cap...

    Screw it, I'll change! I'll change for you, Negri! Can I use it?
    My value as a poster is derived from how many people have quoted my in their signatures. It sustains me.
  1. Bauwagast's Avatar
    While I think it's good that Blizzard tries to be creative about shortening dungeon finder queues for dps, it somehow just feels wrong to me, to do it this way. "Shower the people who have it good already with more goods" just seems wrong.

    If the mounts and pets have the same (or worse) drop chances as they would in their respective dungeons or off mobs, then it's alright with me, though I guess I am a bit purist about it, since I've spent a massive amount of time grinding pets and mounts at one point (hi little red dragon pet, that dropped off mob number 3857).

    This way of fixing things doesn't fix the core problem though: Making the tank and healing roles fun/less daunting to do. Maybe Blizzard should implement some mini-game where you could practice your tanking or healing skills to make you feel more confident... like the (for the horde) Hammerfall triage quest. Maybe make some events you could start that made you practice some basic tanking/AoE tanking/damage mitigation cd's, and the equivalent thing for healers. Practicing on npc's that don't bitch and moan like real pug'ers (unless scripted to do it for fun) would make me want to do it more in real groups. I still remember the sinking feeling of "letting the group/raid down, when I was on healing duty on an alt, and we had a wipe, and the usual "omg healer wtf??!" was shouted. Making the aforementioned mini-games where you could try to boost your confidence through different scenarios and increasingly difficult "stuff", would appeal to me, as a scared dps pantsy... though I can only really dps on my main, being a rogue :P.
  1. Zalavaaris's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by taylor20k View Post
    you get shorter queue times. that's what you get. Quit complaining. This system is catoring to the DPS but yet the DPS think that they are being shafted? doesn't make sense. Those mounts are not special. Quit pretending that tanks get anything awesome out of it. Only the DPS are benefiting.
    I expect an acceptable queue time as it is. A reasonable feature of the game is not something that is seen as a reward, its expected for something you pay for.
  1. Mandingo's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    I am disappointed... Now they are being offered as a reward to tanks, who already have instant queues and are payed small fortunes of gold to tank a single heroic.
    It's ironic that you say this because, DPS classes have consistently bemoaned the long queue times they have in LFD. Please note that if this works, which I think it will (see my post here where I propose solutions to long queue times/tank shortages along the same lines), the real reward goes to the DPS classes: Faster queue times, along the lines of those already received by tanks and healers. The only reason why tanks and healers have fast queues is because there are less of them to go around than DPS, so there are more groups for them to be assigned to. By incentivizing more tank and healer participation, more groups will be completed more frequently and, voilà, shorter queue times for DPS. In sum: This is being done for the DPS, not the tanks or the healers. DPS are the true beneficiaries.

    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    I am now rather upset with Blizzard. : /. It's a lazy solution and a simple bandage to a simple problem: It's not that there aren't enough tanks, it's that there aren't enough classes that CAN tank. Like the aesthetics of being a Shaman, but want to tank? Too bad. "Hybridizing" all the pure classes, though it would admittedly be a bitch to balance, would help to solve this problem a lot.
    While I do think that adding another tank class would help tank shortages/queue times, since more people would be capable of tanking period (see recommendation No. 1 of my previously referenced post), I don't agree that there aren't enough tank classes. Four classes are currently capable of tanking, as many as are capable of healing, and they happen to be the No. 1, No. 3, No. 4 and No. 6 most played classes, and represent almost 45% of all players (Paladin, Druid, Death Knight, Warrior, in that order; Source: Warcraft Realms). The fact that there is a shortage means that those that can tank aren't tanking, not necessarily that more tanks are needed. The reason they wont try it is generally the responsibility the tanking role entails.

    Incentives like Call to Arms can change that, though. Kudos, Blizzard.
  1. mmoc3d5e9cedde's Avatar
    dpsers whining about not getting mounts - it's not hard to kill those bosses, they die in like 20 seconds, max.
  1. Cows For Life's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Zalavaaris View Post
    Id love to see a tank solo a 5 man heroic, then give them something. Until then, they arent any more important. Are there less of them creating value? Yes. Does that mean they are any more important... no.. If I were in a group and I knew my tank was going to be getting extra loot on top of his queue time and I wouldnt be, I would leave out of principle. I would hope others would follow me.
    Have you seen death knights in good gear?
  1. Shpetznaz's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulosio View Post
    As a dps you are at NO disadvantage to solo any of the instances mentioned.... they are all completely faceroll as a level 85.
    Solo stone core as any caster
  1. barrinmw's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Bauwagast View Post
    While I think it's good that Blizzard tries to be creative about shortening dungeon finder queues for dps, it somehow just feels wrong to me, to do it this way. "Shower the people who have it good already with more goods" just seems wrong.
    if they had it so good, they wouldn't be so hesitant to queue for random heroics.
  1. mmocf54b44f665's Avatar
    Worst change ever.
  1. littlerdnk's Avatar
    to me this feels like a slap in the face for anybody that plays a dps class. it feels like were getting penalized for being a dps class. there should be an incentive for a dps of any type to stay for the entire dungeon instead of droping the group when the group downs a boss that they need a piece of gear from and that piece dosent drop. i understand that there is a shortage of tanks and healers in game at this time but this to me does not seem the way to get more caues its gonna cause more and more people to stop quing for the dungeon finder because myself for one will not que again for a random heroic for the simple fact that im not gonna help somebody that wouldnt que to begin with get a mount now that its an incentive for them to get off their lazy butts and play anyway.
    :mad
  1. Semihage's Avatar
    Let's be clear here.. Heroic 5 man queue will be epically long in 4.1. Every experienced tank that's queueing now will only do ZA/ZG heroic with guildies (more VP!!).

    If your dps class isn't at ilvl 346 by the 4.1, god help you because you are going to need a lot of guild help to get you into ZA/ZG.
  1. barrinmw's Avatar
    this change is for dps classes, its to reduce your queue time.

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