Patch 4.1 Preview -- Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker)
In patch 4.1 we'll be introducing Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms, a new system intended to lower queue times. Call to Arms will automatically detect which class role is currently the least represented in the queue, and offer them additional rewards for entering the Dungeon Finder queue and completing a random level-85 Heroic dungeon.

Any time the Dungeon Finder queue is longer than a few minutes for level-85 Heroics, the Call to Arms system kicks in and determines which role is the least represented. In the case of tanking being the least represented role, the "Call to Arms: Tanks" icon will display in the Dungeon Finder UI menu where class roles are selected, and will also display on the UI when the queue pops and you are selected to enter a dungeon. Regardless of your role, you'll always be able to see which role currently has been Called to Arms, if any.

Call to Arms is meant to lower wait times by offering additional rewards for queuing as the currently least represented role. To be eligible for the additional rewards you must solo queue for a random level-85 Heroic in the role that is currently being Called to Arms, and complete the dungeon by killing the final boss. Every time you hit these requirements (there is no daily limit) you'll receive a goodie bag that will contain some gold, a chance at a rare gem, a chance at a flask/elixir (determined by spec), a good chance of receiving a non-combat pet (including cross faction pets), and a very rare chance at receiving a mount. The pets offered come from a wide variety of sources, and include companions like the Razzashi Hatchling, Cockatiel, and Tiny Sporebat, but the mounts are those specifically only available through dungeons (not raids), like the Reins of the Raven Lord from Sethekk Halls, Swift White Hawkstrider from Magister's Terrace, and Deathcharger's Reins from Stratholme.

This system is meant to address the unacceptable queue times currently being experienced by those that queue for the DPS role at max level. The long queue times are, of course, caused by a very simple lack of representation in the Dungeon Finder by tanks, and to some extent healers. We don't feel the tanking and healing roles have any inherent issues that are causing the representation disparity, except that fulfilling them carries more responsibility. Understandably, players prefer to take on that responsibility in more organized situations than what the Dungeon Finder offers, but perhaps we can bribe them a little. While this system gives tanks and healers something extra, the incentive is being provided so that we can help players in the DPS role get into more dungeons, get better gear, and continue progressing.

While the gold, gems, flasks, and elixirs are OK incentives, we knew we needed something more substantial. We had briefly considered Valor Points and epics, but decided that wouldn't be working toward the goal of helping DPS players progress, and ultimately wouldn't keep tanks and healers in the Dungeon Finder system for very long. We settled on pets and dungeon-found mounts as they’re cosmetic/achievement items that players tend to try to get on their own, so why not change that up and offer them a chance to get some of those elusive pets and mounts in a way that also helps other players? Even if they don't get a pet or mount, or get one they already have, the gold and other goodies still feel rewarding enough that it won't feel like a waste of effort.

We think it's a pretty solid incentive to get tanks and healers queuing, give max-level players another way to collect the pets and mounts they so desire, and above all, to improve wait times for DPS players sitting in queues. In the case of lower level dungeons, it's actually not uncommon for DPS to be the least represented role, and so if this new system works out and we're pleased with the results, we may consider applying this same mechanic to lower level dungeons as well.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Patch 4.1 Preview -- Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 1855 Comments
  1. Renowned's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Facepalmer View Post
    You really think there is a cause for a call to arms for MAGES COME TO HIS HEROIC!! HELP ME NEED YOU? um yeah cough right.
    Whoosh! Your avatar and name are so appropriate to this.

    The person I quoted (and who he quoted) are suggesting that this change will increase queue times for DPS because the tanks and healers will sit around not queuing until they see CTA:Tank or CTA:Heals to pop up. What I'm saying is that if CTA:Tank isn't active, you won't have the problem of waiting for the tanks who are waiting for CTA:Tank to pop up. The fact that CTA:Tank isn't active means that tanks aren't in shortage, or that there are enough of them that something else is needed more! CTA is not random, it doesn't cycle, it's based purely on what role is in most demand.
  1. Mudip's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Biggsmack View Post
    So you're saying that you want them to give PVE mounts to PVPers for doing PVP? See anything wrong with that?
    No I don't, gimme merciless glad mount for killing deathwings plz....mmm deathwings
  1. mmoc31a6eca749's Avatar
    I am waiting for the floodgates of QQ to open up from the people farming Stratholme since day one and never got the Reigns... and then watch a 'newbie' lvl 85 run away with one on the first random dungeon...
  1. Téuntjûh's Avatar
    I Love This!
  1. mercutiouk's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Biggsmack View Post
    So you're saying that you want them to give PVE mounts to PVPers for doing PVP? See anything wrong with that?
    Of course he doesn't the PVP minigame is the be all and end all. 7 maps, 5 small rooms, sum total of game.

    (I play both so i'm allowed to poke fun at either camp).
  1. Romobama's Avatar
    Idk where you folks are getting your 30-45min queue times...... my wait on my hunter is rarely 30 mins.... more regularly 55 - 75 mins.

    I think if the tank and/or heals get extra stuff, then tank/healer gear should have a lower drop rate and dps gear have a higher drop rate (yes, I know...your common sense is tingling).

    I think blizz should look at the player base, figure out 'why tanks don't wanna tank and heals don't wanna heal'. I have a resto-shammy... I don't wanna heal cause I didn't learn how to heal till after wrath almost into ICC, where I could spam a few random heals and it was okay. Now I haven't the foggyest on what heal to click on at a particular moment. I have a druid I want to tank... and I wont tank because of the learning cerve tanks have now.. there isn't a 'just try it again' there's a 'you fail /vote kick' so I don't tank (and I guess that would be just the same as the healer as well).
  1. Mistral's Avatar
    I allready have all the mentioned pets and mounts. Hopefully there is more, otherwise no reason to queue for me neither as tank nor healer.

    And I don't see this patch really change something significant on the queue-times for DDs. Even with the goodie bag added later back in wotlk I saw enough players leaving the oculus.
    It would be helpfull the first 3-4 weeks, than those who want the goodie bag should have what they want. But it's nice for twinks maybe.
  1. mmoc553951e9bc's Avatar
    They should really give dps goodiebags for sitting in the queue for that long.

    And don't give me the ohhh LOL troll you're retarded this problem is to fix queue times and that will only make them worse!!!

    Well this change won't have any effect on queue times either and will just award tanks who already have instant queues with more shiny things.

    There will also be a huge influx of dps geared tanks trying to tank heroics that have no clue whatsoever, way to screw healers blizz.
  1. Keosen's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Facepalmer View Post
    Tanks and heals aren't queuing due to their fail rate or lack of understanding for simple (and increasingly nerfed fights) or the increased fail rate of DPS, and lack of awareness of their environment. Bribing ANYONE or EVERYONE with gear, gold, flying birds or cookies isnt going to change the fact, that if Grim Batol pops up, a fail tank, shinies or otherwise, is going to bail.
    For this there is no solution and it's not Blizzard's fault if someone can't understand that an effect of rumbling earth under their feet is bad, except if you suppose Blizzard is obligated to make an IQ test before let you enter a dungeon.
  1. ShortTermCrook's Avatar
    Surely giving them oportunity to get long lost ZG tiger or raptor would be a reason to complain about these roles having some unique chances. More concern should be put on the quality of the new tanks seeking these rewards, and probably it wont be a surprise to kick a tank or two for fooling around with dps gear and tanking spec or having no friggin idea how to shoulder a very frightening thing called - responsibility.
    One day having a 12minute queue resulted in heroic where tanks resigned twice, and 3rd that came after long period of wait time was of very poor quality aswell. I can see that being the case with such change.
  1. methus's Avatar
    Can people please stop with all the whining? God would you prefer it was "just because dps have a such a long queue time we decided to double it but hey you will get a SMALL CHANCE(as is stated for the mounts) to get some old mounts that you could solo in 10-15m".

    I bet 99% of the complainers are people who sit in ogrimmar flashing their rare mount and going "Look at me scrub i got this shiny mount which makes me 100 times better than you."

    FACT: Before patch 4.1 some if not most of you were paying tanks to queue for heroics with you.
    After patch 4.1 Blizz is paying for tanks/healers to queue up for heroics with you.

    On a side note what about all the horrible healers/dps we have in queues today. All I see is omg we will have allot of bad tanks etc. Nobody looks at the fact that people who don't tank/heal now are probably doing raids which will mean an overall increase in tank/heal quality while some healers/dps are still | | with how the game should be played. Why do you think so many people would rather sit in ogrimmar for hours than come tank a heroic. That is because all the retarded people who are present in pugs these days.
  1. h4rr0d's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Callypso View Post
    All people see is the 'small chance at a mount that dps will never get!!'. Oh man, the stupidity in this thread.



    I'll sum it up for you.

    - Right now, as a dps, you spend 20-30 minutes in the queue due to (mostly) lack of tanks. THIS CHANGE IS TO LOWER THAT TIME FOR YOU! Why would you care what the reason of that lower time is, if you're just signing up for the valor points and/or gear anyway?

    - It's not just mounts: It's gold to begin with, and in addition you have a CHANCE at getting a pet, mount or raid consumables. And you can get mounts/pets that you already have, most likely.

    - All the mounts mentioned are shiteasy to farm as any class. It's easier to just farm them in 10min in their original instance then spend 30+ min in a random hc hoping you a) get a mount, b) don't get a mount you already have. If it's mounts you want to farm, it's a lot easier to farm them in the old content than through this way.

    - Right now NO ONE signs up for random heroics to farm these mounts. So for the non-call at arms people signing up, all that changes is a queue time that's most likely lower... does it matter if someone else might get some extra gold, if all you're interested in is gearing your alt?


    This will encourage people to sign up more as healers and tanks. Personally I always sign up as one of those since I hate waiting. This will make heroic farming a lot more enjoyable on my alts that CAN'T tank or heal!
    I'll just add to that third paragraph: c) don't end up in random dungeon with bunch of incompetent undergeared noobs.

    I mean doing same DPS as offspec Feral tank on boss as two other players in group? Really?
    Well, I guess I won't be having two raiding balance specs as I planned to after all. Having a bear as offspec will now be easy way how to earn cash...
  1. Naoto's Avatar
    This is to encourage more people going tank or healer for heroics but somehow I don't think it will, tanking and healing are far more stressfull than mindless dps so is a mount going to change that? and if so, for how long? I tank alot and tanks/healers deserve more than dps who can slack, pull 5k dps and get the same rewards as the tank/healer whereas if the tank/healer slack people die and groups wipe then disband.
  1. MysticalOS's Avatar
    I'll tell you now, this makes no difference to me, as mentioned by dozens of others, tanks have been able to solo that stuff for ages, i for one already have all of the heroic dungeon mounts, hell i soloed VOA to get a grand black war mammoth and UP for a blue protodrake too. No gift bag is gonna give me the patience to babysit moron dps through heroics that think skull is just a dps suggestion and moon is the real dps target.
  1. Facepalmer's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Renowned View Post
    Whoosh! Your avatar and name are so appropriate to this.

    The person I quoted (and who he quoted) are suggesting that this change will increase queue times for DPS because the tanks and healers will sit around not queuing until they see CTA:Tank or CTA:Heals to pop up. What I'm saying is that if CTA:Tank isn't active, you won't have the problem of waiting for the tanks who are waiting for CTA:Tank to pop up. The fact that CTA:Tank isn't active means that tanks aren't in shortage, or that there are enough of them that something else is needed more! CTA is not random, it doesn't cycle, it's based purely on what role is in most demand.
    Of course. But % likelihood that DPS would suddenly be in demand, as opposed to tanks/heals.. is so low, it is kind of silly to point out the chance of CTA being for DPS as well. To bolster this point, I would like to point out that the QUICKEST queue i have had on DPS is 18min. On a tank, avg is about.... 2 seconds. Maybe the figures will balance a little, but not enough to make the proposed changes more than a nice bribe to a mis-represented ability that is not being utilised ingame.
  1. Ashareth's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Siggma View Post
    so from reading it, the classes that are needed the most are flagged with the call to arms, the "goodie bag" is only awarded to the class thats under call to arms, and its awarded for killing the end boss. I can see it now

    [tank] Skipping optional boss's as im farming mounts / pets / cant be bothered with optional bosses
    [Healer] Me too
    [DPS] But I need to kill Boss (X) for Item (Y)
    [Tank / healer] Tough luck.


    Sorry but this is only going to make boss skipping / Kicking low geared people even worse than it is at the moment.

    Because it's TOTALLY different that what is happening now....
    Just try to have Erunark killed in TotT as a tank/plate dps, and then come back to me (or anything close to NOT skipping 3 of the last 4 bosses in HoO).
    People are ALREADY skipping whatever they can fucking over the ones that need the gear (and strangely it's mostly plate dps or tanks, who have a really limited pool of alternatives, when other armor classes have a lot of options from unskipable bosses in other instances.... as usual).

    Right now, i'm running 2 to 3 instances a day as a tank, rolling with the following rules :
    - i'm asking if people want a full run or a max skip
    - i'm going with the majority with previous said question
    - i consider that if someone needs something from a boss and there is only one person asking to skip, with others "not caring" we go full clear


    even like that, forcing people's hand, it's only 1/3rd of the instances going full clear, the 2/3rd left is fucking over people that need to gear up (and i don't need anything from instance anymore, on any of my hc /raid ready char, as ms or os).

    The 0NLY thing that this change will bring to the game is "maybe" a higher number of tanks (the thing that is lacking in instances big time for now), and keep an incentive for tanks to keep queuing when they don't need gear, don't need JP (which is useless right now, thanx blizz decidding you CAN'T have gems and so on from jp, even at a really high price), don't need VP... now they might be motivated to queue and cope with the cohort of morons thinking "they are the shit", "they are entitled to be looked up because of dick 101", hence making queues SHORTER for the ones that have been complaining about the LFD for the past 2 years....

    Yeah as a pure dps you won't be able to get those rewards, but on the other hand, IF it works, you'll end up with a 10/15 mins queue instead of a 25/45 mins queue, hence having everyone in a win/win situation (and there isn't a lot of those out there).
  1. Hellhammer's Avatar
    good change!
    maybe not perfect but thats something I was argueing about with people since the birth of dungeon finder

    in comparision tanks and healers contribute 100% more to a successful dungeon run and have a lot more work to do
    still stupid dps noobs are rolling on healer or tank stuff and generally have the same rewards/chances of winning stuff - thats just not a fair system!

    they(dps) run a dungeon with their brains set to standby, overnuking, standing in the fire, pulling aggro and only watching their meters
    while leaving the responsibility of not dying completely to the tanks and even more to the healers still they ought to roll on the same stuff with the same chances

    not very motivating for tanks or healers isn't it?
  1. mmoc626163a888's Avatar
    Oh wow. I'm so glad I just finished getting my alt warrior tank ready for heroics!

    Imo the justification that healers and tanks already are rewarded by shorter queue times doesn't really work as usually a tank for example just goes and does that single daily heroic for his points, the time spent in the queue isn't the main reason they go and do it in the first place. If those tanks would now do maybe 2 or 3 heroics instead of 1, it would already help the queue times for DPS.
  1. mmoc6af618f320's Avatar
    Holy cow... I can see this actually getting tanks (lets face it, it will always be CTA: Tanks) into heroics.

    Tough luck for pure DPS classes oh yea...

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