MMO-Champion - Patch 4.1 Preview -- Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms
Patch 4.1 Preview -- Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker)
In patch 4.1 we'll be introducing Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms, a new system intended to lower queue times. Call to Arms will automatically detect which class role is currently the least represented in the queue, and offer them additional rewards for entering the Dungeon Finder queue and completing a random level-85 Heroic dungeon.

Any time the Dungeon Finder queue is longer than a few minutes for level-85 Heroics, the Call to Arms system kicks in and determines which role is the least represented. In the case of tanking being the least represented role, the "Call to Arms: Tanks" icon will display in the Dungeon Finder UI menu where class roles are selected, and will also display on the UI when the queue pops and you are selected to enter a dungeon. Regardless of your role, you'll always be able to see which role currently has been Called to Arms, if any.

Call to Arms is meant to lower wait times by offering additional rewards for queuing as the currently least represented role. To be eligible for the additional rewards you must solo queue for a random level-85 Heroic in the role that is currently being Called to Arms, and complete the dungeon by killing the final boss. Every time you hit these requirements (there is no daily limit) you'll receive a goodie bag that will contain some gold, a chance at a rare gem, a chance at a flask/elixir (determined by spec), a good chance of receiving a non-combat pet (including cross faction pets), and a very rare chance at receiving a mount. The pets offered come from a wide variety of sources, and include companions like the Razzashi Hatchling, Cockatiel, and Tiny Sporebat, but the mounts are those specifically only available through dungeons (not raids), like the Reins of the Raven Lord from Sethekk Halls, Swift White Hawkstrider from Magister's Terrace, and Deathcharger's Reins from Stratholme.

This system is meant to address the unacceptable queue times currently being experienced by those that queue for the DPS role at max level. The long queue times are, of course, caused by a very simple lack of representation in the Dungeon Finder by tanks, and to some extent healers. We don't feel the tanking and healing roles have any inherent issues that are causing the representation disparity, except that fulfilling them carries more responsibility. Understandably, players prefer to take on that responsibility in more organized situations than what the Dungeon Finder offers, but perhaps we can bribe them a little. While this system gives tanks and healers something extra, the incentive is being provided so that we can help players in the DPS role get into more dungeons, get better gear, and continue progressing.

While the gold, gems, flasks, and elixirs are OK incentives, we knew we needed something more substantial. We had briefly considered Valor Points and epics, but decided that wouldn't be working toward the goal of helping DPS players progress, and ultimately wouldn't keep tanks and healers in the Dungeon Finder system for very long. We settled on pets and dungeon-found mounts as they’re cosmetic/achievement items that players tend to try to get on their own, so why not change that up and offer them a chance to get some of those elusive pets and mounts in a way that also helps other players? Even if they don't get a pet or mount, or get one they already have, the gold and other goodies still feel rewarding enough that it won't feel like a waste of effort.

We think it's a pretty solid incentive to get tanks and healers queuing, give max-level players another way to collect the pets and mounts they so desire, and above all, to improve wait times for DPS players sitting in queues. In the case of lower level dungeons, it's actually not uncommon for DPS to be the least represented role, and so if this new system works out and we're pleased with the results, we may consider applying this same mechanic to lower level dungeons as well.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Patch 4.1 Preview -- Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 1871 Comments
  1. mmathes339's Avatar
    I belive this is an attempt to solve the problem of tank 1 dungon and then log onto a dps alt or go do something else. Also, in 4.1 it might get worse with the fact tanks will be able to do multiple dungons in 1 day, and then take the rest of the week off. Good for casual tanks, bad for the dps who can't play on weekends due to work or other things. I agree that there aren't enough tank classes, but also being a tank isn't exactly fun for everyone. We're always 2nd to last on dps charts (healer being last), even if we get no wipes in a dungon we get a repair bill, and when solo questing yes we don't have to worry about dying, but doing kill quests often takes longer than a dps because we do crap dammage. Yes there is dual spec, but to my knowlege most ppl use it for PvE spec and PvP spec, often times both dps specs.

    Yeah, its bribery for tanks, but if it makes more ppl do more dungons as a tank will the dps really complain? Since you have to solo que to get the rewards u won't have to out of pocket pay for more tanks in the system.
  1. Skippert's Avatar
    The shadow priest is a great a example of what a support class "could be" (im not saying that a shadow priest is a support spec now)
    Good point. Same with retridins, we had holypower combopoints to use for an instant heal to support the healer in hard times. I really liked that, it made the whole gameplay more dynamic and it gave me a bigger feeling of fullfilment. Yet now we get a cooldown on those abilities, forcing us more towards the pure DPS role. That's really too bad. I think WoW in general has a combat system that's too passive and static. With the offheals as dps hybrid, I really enjoyed the more dynamic gameplay. Instead of mindlessly doing my DPS rotation/priorities over and over on 1 target, I could watch the health bars a bit and help out the healer. Too bad that's getting less.

    The reason is prolly: hard to balance PvP. That's also a problem with Blizzard not wanting to chance cooldowns/effects enough between PVP and PVE. They already do it a bit more, but not enough. It's much easier to balance PVP and PVE if you just give a few more abilities a different CD/power/effect in PVP and PVE.

    For instance: if you want to up frostmage DPS, you can easily give the most fun ability (deep freeze) a 15sec CD instead of 30sec, while keeping it 30sec in PVP. You can do that with many abilities.
  1. Bucky Mclachlan's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by asharia View Post
    thanks for discriminating against PUREs and possibly non-tanking hybrids blizzard. another fucking retarded decision. i mean really, with the high profile a company such as yours brings, you'd think you'd be able to hire at least one person with an IQ higher than a demented blowfish.


    /golfclap
    Cuz it doesn't take all of a few minutes to farm the mounts in the actual dungeons they drop from amirite. It's totally not easier to do that then to go through a random level 85 heroic as a tank or healer. :|
  1. lvlark's Avatar
    @ the change: No. I honestly thought this was an april fools. Why? Because it doesn't feels right for Blizzard to do something like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by asb View Post
    Why didn't they fix that for this expansion then? If the DPS role is a free ride, why don't they reconsider their DPS requirement tuning? o_o
    That right there. Might be harder though. However why do tanks and healers feel more responsibility? Because wipes tend to be blamed on them. It's more obvious if they missperform, perhaps? Anyway. If a DPS pulls aggro and a wipe results because said add will go to healer after killing DPS, then it's the DPS' bad as well as the tanks.
    If there's reasons why people won't roll tank/healer then you should try to do something about those reasons (ofcourse if the situation is as bad as it is now) instead of trying to offset them with incentives. A more fundamental approach would be in place, and something I would expect from Blizzard.

    And also, people will feel forced to overcome aforementioned reasons and roll a tank/healer while that isn't something they'd usually do. Thus this issue forces people into a playstyle that doesn't match them. Also something that isn't to be expected from Blizzard. A more fundamental approach, again, could get more people to like the playstyle involved with tanking/healing.
  1. Haezeus's Avatar
    Why not make it like this. If someone enters your group under the call to arms thing, you all get a goodie bag. I can't foresee a situation where a pure DPS class with ever be eligible for the rewards.
  1. Rocheku's Avatar
    The way they shouldve fixed this is making tanking alot less bothersome and more easily manageable, or more fun in different ways as in abilities etc and more easily to actually hold aggro. encouraging more new players or old players to try tanking. Not saying that tanking is hard, i do it sometimes on my alt, but this problem shouldve been fixed in other ways then just coming up with this system wich will for quite some time only benefit tanks.
  1. Bucky Mclachlan's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Skippert View Post
    Good point. Same with retridins, we had holypower combopoints to use for an instant heal to support the healer in hard times. I really liked that, it made the whole gameplay more dynamic and it gave me a bigger feeling of fullfilment. Yet now we get a cooldown on those abilities, forcing us more towards the pure DPS role.
    Hybrids are classes that can spec into multiple roles. They are not classes that are meant to function well in all of those roles regardless of spec.
  1. Stylez's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Siggma View Post
    so from reading it, the classes that are needed the most are flagged with the call to arms, the "goodie bag" is only awarded to the class thats under call to arms, and its awarded for killing the end boss. I can see it now

    [tank] Skipping optional boss's as im farming mounts / pets / cant be bothered with optional bosses
    [Healer] Me too
    [DPS] But I need to kill Boss (X) for Item (Y)
    [Tank / healer] Tough luck.


    Sorry but this is only going to make boss skipping / Kicking low geared people even worse than it is at the moment.
    Exactly what I was thinking. The idea of shortening queues is a great thing, but I don't this is the way to go about it. The novelty of maybe getting a mount will wear off pretty quick and then we will be back to waiting in the lobby, cough cough city, for a pop. This is a band-aid fix to a torn off limb. Instead of adding new features why can't buggy class mechanics be fixed?
  1. Sileh's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by illindarious View Post
    But it's tanks and healers that get the quick que's already. So they are also going to get more rewards as well? While the dps that wait 30-45 minutes or longer get nothing new?
    Harder roles deserve better rewards
  1. Rokmarr's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky Mclachlan View Post
    If you think that tanks "are just sitting there" you truly are clueless. Roll one and you'll learn pretty quit that there's a lot more going on than just "sitting there".
    See you misread what I said, I said the SAME THING AS EVERYONE ELSE. I used atramedes as an example. And as far as just standing there, you usually do in heroics. Not exactly hard boss mechanics there guy. Raids are different. You may have to press a few buttons to taunt, or perhaps pop a CD. But how often will a boss go running off unless your tps is shit? Especially with rogues and hunters, (both DPS if you didnt know.) buffing your tps like crazy. You may have to kite something oh damn magmaw and cho'gall say hi. I kite adds on both those fights as a dps while one tank is on cho and the other picks up adds and occasionally swaps. Same with putricide. You can't tell me you are more responsible, maybe you should roll a dps. This is about heroics and how it is equally easy for all. Those of you tanks who talk about selfish, roll a dps for a day and try to random a heroic. Then go back to your tank and say,"Man that really sucked, let me do my part as a TANK to help out my fellow players."
  1. konflick's Avatar
    this is a good change i have both a healer and tank at max gear level and i dont need valor points so this is a nice incentive for me to get back into heroics on both my characters and maybe a good reward for having to deal with undergeared/skilled players that have to have their hands held and carried. I personally hate doing heroics because most of the time people dont know what their doing even after having to explain it 10x so if i can get a better reward for my effort to lead a group of halfwitts im down ( no offense to anyone but their are a lot of bad people that play)
  1. Bucky Mclachlan's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by lvlark View Post
    That right there. Might be harder though. However why do tanks and healers feel more responsibility? Because wipes tend to be blamed on them.
    Maybe because for the most part your tanks and healers are 100% in control of a groups ability to successfully get past encounters and dps just plays whack-a-mole?
  1. SeekerofTruth's Avatar
    That is not true, blizzard fails to see or juts cba to work on the actual reason of the problem. Being a dps main but with loads of level 85 alts from which I play either tank or healer where it's possible, I can pretty much say this has nothing to do with stress and responsibility.

    My most played tank alt, semi raid geared, paladin can pretty much aoe tank all hc pulls by now wotlk style, add a competent hunter or rogue and agro issues are out of the window, completely brainless and boring, big responsibility.

    As I healer, from experimentation in guild runs, a dps with even out of combat self healing abilities can pretty much be ignored for an entire run if he plays really competently in most cases. Keeping a geared enough tank alive with both having 333/346 gear? No big dead, add 1-2 dps focusing really good on taking as much damage as possible in any given situation and then blaming you for not keeping them alive and then having to argue/qq with them and their numbness? That now is something that can put a healer off...

    And to many above, no, playing a dps class at it's max potential, meaning not getting agro, taking as less damage as possible while doing your max dps for your given gear in any situation is equally or more demanding, the difference in 5 mans at least is that it's not the end of the world if you don't do it but it's certainly noticeable and annoying to any semi experienced player...
  1. maquiladora's Avatar
    its actually a good solution, and any dps whining is simply to lazy to tank.

    blizzard is completely right about the fact, that tanking means carrying more responsibility - you have to be concentrated throughout the run unless you have a full epic healer carrying you through.

    some people suggested, that it would help to tune up the dps requirements for random dungeons then - but that wouldn't work, as dps are notorious slackers and will rather wipe 3 hours or leave than improve their game.
    in the end it will be tanks and healers again, carrying bad dps through the dungeon.

    obviously its not the best solution, but blizzard is quite right - when i decide to tank a random dungeon, i rather pick up 4 guildmates or 4 people from my realm - going completely random often resulted in neverending frustration.

    i do predict though, that a lot of bad tanks might also start tanking again.
  1. Bucky Mclachlan's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Rokmarr View Post
    See you misread what I said, I said the SAME THING AS EVERYONE ELSE. I used atramedes as an example. And as far as just standing there, you usually do in heroics.
    I did not misread what you said. You don't get it. The tank is never JUST sitting there. EVER. The tank is in control of the fight and always trying to maintain that control. He is positioning things for you to be able to dps them without dying. He is taking damage for the group. Never just sitting there. EVER. Got it?
  1. Rokmarr's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky Mclachlan View Post
    Maybe because for the most part your tanks and healers are 100% in control of a groups ability to successfully get past encounters and dps just plays whack-a-mole?
    So for example, if we just randomly attack things and don't say, kill the healing mob, everything goes according to plan right? Because all dps do is shoot stuff and never bring anything to help right? We don't buff you like crazy or have any knowledge on priority targets at all. Come on man, we don't all have our heads up our *ss.
  1. Skippert's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Rokmarr View Post
    See you misread what I said, I said the SAME THING AS EVERYONE ELSE. I used atramedes as an example. And as far as just standing there, you usually do in heroics. Not exactly hard boss mechanics there guy. Raids are different. You may have to press a few buttons to taunt, or perhaps pop a CD. But how often will a boss go running off unless your tps is shit? Especially with rogues and hunters, (both DPS if you didnt know.) buffing your tps like crazy. You may have to kite something oh damn magmaw and cho'gall say hi. I kite adds on both those fights as a dps while one tank is on cho and the other picks up adds and occasionally swaps. Same with putricide. You can't tell me you are more responsible, maybe you should roll a dps. This is about heroics and how it is equally easy for all. Those of you tanks who talk about selfish, roll a dps for a day and try to random a heroic. Then go back to your tank and say,"Man that really sucked, let me do my part as a TANK to help out my fellow players."
    I don't see you talking about healing, with a reason probably. Healing might actually be harder than both DPS AND tanking.
  1. zeock's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Buttered Toast View Post
    Well....

    time to get back to tanking in 4.1
    This.

    more tanks = shorter que times for dps

    and DO NOT take this as a punishment for being a dps, think of it as a small leverage for fulfilling a role that is seemingly very unattractive at this stage in game.



    Extra rewards for tanks and shorter que times for dps, it's a win-win.

    Why are you guys complaining?
  1. Morsetlis's Avatar
    As a player with four tank/heal alts and two pure dps alts, I see absolutely no problem with this.

    Complain moar.
  1. Bucky Mclachlan's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Rokmarr View Post
    So for example, if we just randomly attack things and don't say, kill the healing mob, everything goes according to plan right? Because all dps do is shoot stuff and never bring anything to help right? We don't buff you like crazy or have any knowledge on priority targets at all. Come on man, we don't all have our heads up our *ss.
    You playing right has nothing to do with the fact that tanks and healers do have much more responsibility on an encounter. You just don't get it. Play a healer or tank and you'll figure it out.

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