Patch 4.1 Preview -- Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker)
In patch 4.1 we'll be introducing Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms, a new system intended to lower queue times. Call to Arms will automatically detect which class role is currently the least represented in the queue, and offer them additional rewards for entering the Dungeon Finder queue and completing a random level-85 Heroic dungeon.

Any time the Dungeon Finder queue is longer than a few minutes for level-85 Heroics, the Call to Arms system kicks in and determines which role is the least represented. In the case of tanking being the least represented role, the "Call to Arms: Tanks" icon will display in the Dungeon Finder UI menu where class roles are selected, and will also display on the UI when the queue pops and you are selected to enter a dungeon. Regardless of your role, you'll always be able to see which role currently has been Called to Arms, if any.

Call to Arms is meant to lower wait times by offering additional rewards for queuing as the currently least represented role. To be eligible for the additional rewards you must solo queue for a random level-85 Heroic in the role that is currently being Called to Arms, and complete the dungeon by killing the final boss. Every time you hit these requirements (there is no daily limit) you'll receive a goodie bag that will contain some gold, a chance at a rare gem, a chance at a flask/elixir (determined by spec), a good chance of receiving a non-combat pet (including cross faction pets), and a very rare chance at receiving a mount. The pets offered come from a wide variety of sources, and include companions like the Razzashi Hatchling, Cockatiel, and Tiny Sporebat, but the mounts are those specifically only available through dungeons (not raids), like the Reins of the Raven Lord from Sethekk Halls, Swift White Hawkstrider from Magister's Terrace, and Deathcharger's Reins from Stratholme.

This system is meant to address the unacceptable queue times currently being experienced by those that queue for the DPS role at max level. The long queue times are, of course, caused by a very simple lack of representation in the Dungeon Finder by tanks, and to some extent healers. We don't feel the tanking and healing roles have any inherent issues that are causing the representation disparity, except that fulfilling them carries more responsibility. Understandably, players prefer to take on that responsibility in more organized situations than what the Dungeon Finder offers, but perhaps we can bribe them a little. While this system gives tanks and healers something extra, the incentive is being provided so that we can help players in the DPS role get into more dungeons, get better gear, and continue progressing.

While the gold, gems, flasks, and elixirs are OK incentives, we knew we needed something more substantial. We had briefly considered Valor Points and epics, but decided that wouldn't be working toward the goal of helping DPS players progress, and ultimately wouldn't keep tanks and healers in the Dungeon Finder system for very long. We settled on pets and dungeon-found mounts as they’re cosmetic/achievement items that players tend to try to get on their own, so why not change that up and offer them a chance to get some of those elusive pets and mounts in a way that also helps other players? Even if they don't get a pet or mount, or get one they already have, the gold and other goodies still feel rewarding enough that it won't feel like a waste of effort.

We think it's a pretty solid incentive to get tanks and healers queuing, give max-level players another way to collect the pets and mounts they so desire, and above all, to improve wait times for DPS players sitting in queues. In the case of lower level dungeons, it's actually not uncommon for DPS to be the least represented role, and so if this new system works out and we're pleased with the results, we may consider applying this same mechanic to lower level dungeons as well.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Patch 4.1 Preview -- Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 1855 Comments
  1. mmoc204baefcb8's Avatar
    > We don't feel the tanking and healing roles have any inherent issues that are causing the representation disparity

    OFC NOT BLIZZARD...then please explain to me why the Waiting Times went up from 10 Mins (WoltK) to 45+ Mins (Cata) ?

    Ive quit Healing with my Tree in Cata cuz it just isnt fun anymore like in WoltK or BC.
    Tanking as a Bear? Yeah right... after the massiv wave of Nerfs you shoveled down out Throats, no Thank you.
    Moonkin is the only Spec thats somewhat good right now, the rest...forget it.

    Btw, ive farmed those Mounts in 100s of runs, thank you for giving em out like Candy now.

    So glad ive quit WoW 4 Weeks ago and went with Rift, it aint perfect either but at least i dont have to put up with this Buffs/Nerfs and Madness no more.

    Reading only the Mage-Part of the Patchnots always put a smile into my Face, Icelance buffed, Arcane Buffed... yay gogo... GMs play Mages, can you tell.
  1. Myrlae's Avatar
    Best change since they implemented the Dungeon Finder and i don't think the rage about the mounts/pets for tanks/healers will be that much since these are items most of the people already have.
  1. mmoc626163a888's Avatar
    What does it matter really? A DPS class can go and farm MGT/Strat/Sethekk and complete it in about the same time as the tank will while doing a random heroic for that DPS. I suppose low geared tanks who are doing heroics for gear and points will win big with this new change, but if it gets epic geared tanks to do heroics for the mounts and lower the queue times for DPS then I think it's a good change.
  1. Gallahadd's Avatar
    wow, I'm kinda torn on this, one one side... I'm a tank, I only play a tank, two in fact, so this is very very cool for me..

    on the other hand I think they do a LITTLE too far, everything up to the Pet is okay, but a chance for a MOUNT? unless it's like 0.01% (which in all fairness it probably is :P) then it's just a bit much.

    of course that's not gunna stop me loggin in the SECOND this goes live and spamming the crap out of Hcs, which I Guess makes this system a total success, as at the moment I log in, do one daily hc, usually with guildies and then log.

    of course all of this depends on the numbers, if you get 1000g a 99% chance of getting a gem a 90% chance of getting a pet and a 50% chance of getting a mount then yeah, it's a BIT much, but on the other hand if you get 1g a 1% chance to get a gem, a 0.1% chance to get a pot and a 0.01% chance to get a mount, it's not exactly an insentive, this needs ALOT of testing, to get the numbers right, and I fear like all these RNG things *cough* Battered Hilt *cough* it will go through some up's and downs before it settles to a nice level.

    of course this also brings up one bad point.... alot of angry dps rerolling tank/healer not because they WANT to, but because they feel they HAVE too, it's already happening and this will just make the situation worse.
  1. abysscrystal's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by xindykawai View Post
    ok but... what if your class is ONLY DPS, like, my main is a mage ??????? this is clairly unfair.
    You never have to tank/heal/playing a role you dont want, cuz you mage.
    You are guaranteed to top meters in pve with pressing two buttons cuz you mage.
    You can pewpew all other classes in pvp.

    You have a lot of advantages just because you are pure dps class, but you want to get the rewards of the hybrids too (less queue time, drops). You are greedy a bit.

    All the time when we are sort of a tank/healer, you are safe, cuz "I am a mage, can't tank/heal, I am soooooooo sorry", not that you couldn't log your warrior alt to save the raid. Ohh wait, your warrior alt is dps specced cuz you dont like tanking, but you expect others to play a role they dont like too and tank FOR YOU, while you are sitting in your guaranteed dps spot.

    The system is not unfair, you can roll a tank anytime and enjoy the advantages of it.
  1. Malmsteen's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorae View Post
    You guys realize that the tank has to complete the dungeon to get the mount right? So if the tank is a total noob they'll likely get kicked and wont get the reward at all. If they really want the chance at the mount/pet then maybe they'll go read up on their class and suck less.
    ^^
    /thread
  1. Naughts Skyway's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Khaw View Post
    Wrong move, Blizzard. You should have implemented a new community.
    ^That.

    Seriously, the mounts aren't valuable at all. I don't even understand why it would motivate a tank to queue, much less draw in all of this DPS QQ. You'll probably have a better chance of getting the mounts by soloing the instances, if you want them that badly. Thinking your rogue/mage/hunter/warlock can't solo Strat, SH, or MgT is beyond silly. You can even solo Utgarde Pinnacle for the blue proto if you wanted.

    If you're willing to queue into CTA for the non-combat pets...well, we're a different species.
  1. mmoc7b61e2a4ca's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Sacrelis View Post
    Wrong way to fix the problem Blizzard.

    Should allow adding friends cross realm and allow invite for instances cross realms.

    I tank most of the time, often I came across some good dps/healers in LFD, we had a kick ass time, joked and had a merry adventure. In the past back in TBC, I would have added them as friends, drag them to instances everyday, but now I don't have the option to do so. That's how WoW used to be, you know friends, meet new people through instances.

    It just seems like each step Blizzard takes further separates the community, instead of bringing them together.
    That is exactly what is wrong with the current social status in the game. Sadly, no one listens
  1. pancakez's Avatar
    Bah thats it.. i have those mounts but i farmed for them the right way... sorry but no more wow for me this is just retarded.. why dont they just sell T12 pices for money?
  1. VanishO2's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Boddugh View Post
    " ... and a VERY RARE chance at receiving a mount."

    caps for emphasis...

    People are reacting as though these mounts will be flowing like rain. Judging from the use of "very rare", I'm guessing 1 out of 100. I think people are getting bent pre-maturely.

    I think it could be a good thing as it will make me queue as a tank more often.
    Considering that their notion of rare changed a lot and the blue drake from heroic oculus as your RANDOM made it's way to the bag of a lot of players... can't see why someone farming this for a day wouldn't grab it soon. Not to mention it's not one mount, but probably ALL the mounts that drops from 5man... including blue proto-drake, the drakes from stonecore and vortex pinacle...

    Remember, except for the current 85 heroics, that you could get more than one chance per day of dropping it (and rolling! imagine! rolling on a mount with other 4!) thanks to the random cataclysm heroic, you can't queue for random TBC heroic or random WotLK Heroics. So basicaly you can only try Anzu, Swift White Hawkstrider, Blue Proto-Drake and a few others only once per day because of the heroic lock. Only the Deathcharger you can farm the entire day (5 times/hour, right?).

    And that's it. While as a "call to arms" needed role, you can farm the hell out of cataclysm heroic dungeons (including ZA/ZG that ppl WILL do it for the mounts) and have a shot of receiving any of these mounts every time you clear one.

    So, yes... you'll get to see those mounts way more now... and less rare then they should be as drops from these bags.
  1. mmoc204baefcb8's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Gallahadd View Post
    of course this also brings up one bad point.... alot of angry dps rerolling tank/healer not because they WANT to, but because they feel they HAVE too, it's already happening and this will just make the situation worse.
    So basicly, we aint waiting 45 Minutes on Tanks... we waiting 45 Minutes on DPS...hahaha good points^^
    Enjoy Heroics with low eqipped Tanks who never Tanked before, just cuz they want the goodie Bags^^
  1. mmoc6025b804ec's Avatar
    I have a tank, healer DPS etc etc and I approve. I don't give a shit about the mounts, because they'll have the same drop chance as if you farmed it yourself anyway. DPS can go fuck themselves if they're using that as an excuse. Using the "tanks and healers already have a short que" no fucking shit. Thats because they're the least represented. This change is to allow DPS get in their dungeon a lot quicker. The more tanks + healers that que = less time for everybody in que.

    The only problem is you'll now get an influx of shit geared, offspec tanks with no enchants, no glyphs, shit spec and not a clue how to tank or even ask for CC. For new players/healers that is going to be a nightmare and make the dungeon 10 times long and with the recent change to votekicks people aren't going to be able to kick at all (heck I have a 2hr cd on my ability to kick..).

    Band aid fix for a bigger problem. At least they're acknowledging the problem and actively trying to fix it.
  1. Ceric's Avatar
    ...Call to Arms will automatically detect which class role is currently the least represented in the queue...
    There's the Money shot. Which is why I'm confused by a lot of these comments.

    In WoW there is 3 Roles DPS, Tank, Healer. A dungeon group typically has the ratios of:

    1:1 Tank
    1:3 DPS
    1:1 Healer

    So just looking at those numbers and using the quote above there is only 1 way you can have more than 1 member of the party being going for the bag. No the Tank and the Healer cannot be conspiring against you to get a bag. Though Mathematically speaking the 3 DPS can be against the Healer and the Tank.

    Due to how groups are made up there is a chance that if the CTA system is really successful we will see DPS come up less frequently but still come up.

    Take this scenario:

    Queue Mix:
    156 Tanks = 156 Groups worth of Tanks
    450 DPS = 150 Groups worth of DPS
    152 Healers = 152 Groups worth of Healers

    Those numbers are probably large for the queue at one time but it gets the point across. Even though there is more overall DPS queued they will get the Call to Arm because there are less groups worth of DPS. If it was a pure 1 to 1 to 1 then yeah we never see DPS. Eventually it will probably go back to Tanks and healers flip flopping.

    I think this will be great for the lower instances.

    All I'm saying is that Blizzard is giving people one of the most suggested way to get the queues shorter and its doing it in a dynamic way. If we suddenly see a huge influx of Tanks then it will move to healers. If we then see a huge influx of Healers it will move to DPS. I know people play Tank > Healer > DPS partially because in a raid you need Tank > Healer > DPS. You just need more Healers then Tanks and DPS then Healers. How the game was designed.

    The best part of this is that if a bunch of bad tanks come on then the Healers will get Fed up and they'll be callled. Bunch of bad Healers then the tanks will get fed up. If 1.01 out of every 3 DPS that has been in group decides its not worth it then DPS will come up. There is no doubt in my mind that there will be times when DPS is called simply because I have queued as a Tank and Healer group in the past and have not gotten in instant queue. Is their a high chance no but, the past has proven there is a chance.
  1. Noakh's Avatar
    Silly dps, you may not get gold or fluff items, but you DO get shorter queue times. That's kinda the whole point. Are you really going to complain that the tanks get a little extra crap if it drops your queue time from 45 mins to 25-30? I call that a fair trade.
  1. Artarist's Avatar
    As somone who has played a tank <warrior> since I started in Molten core, I've always attributed the lack of tanks to one thing. Gear acqusition. Raids no matter the size so far only require 2 tanks, possibly 3 but hardly ever.

    You know for certain that you are going to level a tank gear him up to heroics but because your guild has 2 or 3 tanks you will have no choice of ever getting that level of gear. So then why bother playing a character you will more then likely never get endgame gear with?
  1. grimkiller's Avatar
    This is an awesome way to get even more clueless tanks in queue. But as far as the actual change goes, it's a step in the right direction. Who cares what other players get, or that they get it easier/quicker/whatever. Play the game and don't worry about what Bob McNooberstein is riding as a mount. It has no effect on you, I promise. No need to rage over it.
    But back to the clueless tanks portion. This could cause rage when you get undergrared/underskilled tanks wasting multiple hours of people's time. That's when shit will hit the fan.
  1. mmoc79a298f34a's Avatar
    I can't really complain about this, as it is just a reflection of the WoW community.

    There is no real incentive for people to keep queueing after they've got their daily VP, so Blizzard has had to add one. Though a free flask would've been enough for me the fact is that just wouldn't be the case for most people - and that may or may not be Blizzard's fault because it's their game that's making people feel so entitled to a free mount simply to tank a dungeon but there is little they can do about it now.

    I really hope this new system works, because although it certainly isn't perfect, there aren't many viable options that will make queue times any faster. Simple fact is, Blizzard aren't doing it to screw over DPS - people are just too meh about new dungeons to keep queueing past their daily VP unless something truly worthwhile (as in, in this case at least, more worthwhile than it really should be.)
  1. VanishO2's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Uhaneole View Post
    dps that are really hurt by this can just re-roll, this is nothin but a possible benefit for y'all

    what i really wish Blizz would do is release the patch rather than adding 1 more feature every week just to extending the wait

    on the other hand they could hybrid even more classes for tankage (Rogue tank in rift?, shammy tank in vanilla?) it doesnt even have to make sense b/c all that went out the window with horde vs horde RBG's lol
    As long as they put the rewards as BoA, yes.

    Since they're not, your sugestion is totally empty.

    "I'm pure DPS, I want that mount, so I will get it on a alt". Perfect logic.
  1. mmoc734e35ff6f's Avatar
    As has probably already been mentioned, all i can see coming from this is an onslaught of rage from pure dps classes because they aren't eligible for the 'goody bag', and even less people will sign as healers/tanks because they want to be called to arms as a healer or tank.

    I also think that the majority of people who can tank or heal, already sign as that, with the luck of the draw buff being fixed and at this general point in the expansion, it's not hard to heal or tank a heroic dungeon.

    I don't expect much to change if this is implemented, in fact i thought it was possibly a late April fools joke.
  1. iceberg265's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Negrido View Post
    I would assert that our concerns are valid and reasonable.
    Your concerns about other people getting rewarded to make your game experience better are valid....yea ok.

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