MMO-Champion - Patch 4.1 Preview -- Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms
Patch 4.1 Preview -- Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker)
In patch 4.1 we'll be introducing Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms, a new system intended to lower queue times. Call to Arms will automatically detect which class role is currently the least represented in the queue, and offer them additional rewards for entering the Dungeon Finder queue and completing a random level-85 Heroic dungeon.

Any time the Dungeon Finder queue is longer than a few minutes for level-85 Heroics, the Call to Arms system kicks in and determines which role is the least represented. In the case of tanking being the least represented role, the "Call to Arms: Tanks" icon will display in the Dungeon Finder UI menu where class roles are selected, and will also display on the UI when the queue pops and you are selected to enter a dungeon. Regardless of your role, you'll always be able to see which role currently has been Called to Arms, if any.

Call to Arms is meant to lower wait times by offering additional rewards for queuing as the currently least represented role. To be eligible for the additional rewards you must solo queue for a random level-85 Heroic in the role that is currently being Called to Arms, and complete the dungeon by killing the final boss. Every time you hit these requirements (there is no daily limit) you'll receive a goodie bag that will contain some gold, a chance at a rare gem, a chance at a flask/elixir (determined by spec), a good chance of receiving a non-combat pet (including cross faction pets), and a very rare chance at receiving a mount. The pets offered come from a wide variety of sources, and include companions like the Razzashi Hatchling, Cockatiel, and Tiny Sporebat, but the mounts are those specifically only available through dungeons (not raids), like the Reins of the Raven Lord from Sethekk Halls, Swift White Hawkstrider from Magister's Terrace, and Deathcharger's Reins from Stratholme.

This system is meant to address the unacceptable queue times currently being experienced by those that queue for the DPS role at max level. The long queue times are, of course, caused by a very simple lack of representation in the Dungeon Finder by tanks, and to some extent healers. We don't feel the tanking and healing roles have any inherent issues that are causing the representation disparity, except that fulfilling them carries more responsibility. Understandably, players prefer to take on that responsibility in more organized situations than what the Dungeon Finder offers, but perhaps we can bribe them a little. While this system gives tanks and healers something extra, the incentive is being provided so that we can help players in the DPS role get into more dungeons, get better gear, and continue progressing.

While the gold, gems, flasks, and elixirs are OK incentives, we knew we needed something more substantial. We had briefly considered Valor Points and epics, but decided that wouldn't be working toward the goal of helping DPS players progress, and ultimately wouldn't keep tanks and healers in the Dungeon Finder system for very long. We settled on pets and dungeon-found mounts as they’re cosmetic/achievement items that players tend to try to get on their own, so why not change that up and offer them a chance to get some of those elusive pets and mounts in a way that also helps other players? Even if they don't get a pet or mount, or get one they already have, the gold and other goodies still feel rewarding enough that it won't feel like a waste of effort.

We think it's a pretty solid incentive to get tanks and healers queuing, give max-level players another way to collect the pets and mounts they so desire, and above all, to improve wait times for DPS players sitting in queues. In the case of lower level dungeons, it's actually not uncommon for DPS to be the least represented role, and so if this new system works out and we're pleased with the results, we may consider applying this same mechanic to lower level dungeons as well.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Patch 4.1 Preview -- Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 1871 Comments
  1. Ooldoong's Avatar
    I can see how the incentives would be able to push more people to pick up the tank, and possibly healer roles if the proportions hit that mark, but it also gives me the notion that this will give enough incentive to have people queue as tank who probably shouldn't. Regardless of my gear or knowledge, I could queue as a tank. I could be bad, but who cares. If I get booted because of gear or lack of knowledge of fight or spec I at most have to wait 15 minutes. A DPS who's bad would have to wait well over an hour if booted (30 min to get in the first, and another 45 to get into the second).

    I see a lot more bad tanks than healers and DPS these days, because of the instant queue. I feel this will only promote people to queue who have shied away from tanking because they know they're undergeared or simply not good. They'll be like:

    AVG_DPSER says, "Oh!, a new mount? I have a guy who can queue for the tank role! yay!"
    Good_Player says, "Weren't you telling me the other day how you didn't like tanking on your warrior because you didn't know how to tank stuff well."
    AVG_DPSER says, "Oh that? lol, I actually really like tanking now" *Eyes sparkle while looking at the new mount*
    *AVG_DPSER queues for random heroic*
    *Entire group wipes non-stop because of tank*
    Entire_Group says, "You're bad dude. Please never queue as a tank."
    AVG_DPSER says, "Lets head to the end. I have a mount to get.
    Entire_Group says, "But we have a few pieces we need to get off these other guys"
    AVG_DPSER says, "Last boss or boot me. I only have time for a couple bosses" .... aka.... I want to finish fast to get MY mount that I so deservingly earned...
    Entire_Group says, "We've been trying to boot you the entire time."
    ...
    ...

    I think this is going to be bad unless they lift the restrictions on booting people. I don't want someone getting any perks who didn't earn it.
  1. lthompson94's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknourishh View Post
    BULLLLLLL SHEEEEEET i go to sethekk halls every day for over a year + all the bullsheeet quest chain from swift flight form and now this it was bad enough when they made it so anzu didn't have to be summoned.

    does this mean if i qq i can have a warlock or pally mount on any class i want
    Why is everyone assuming that they are giving these mounts away?

    You are doing a lame dungeon you don't want to do in hopes of getting the mount.

    Now, tanks will be doing lame 85 heroics they don't want to do in order to get the mount. And probably just as many. The only difference is that now it will shorten your cue time, and you actually get a benefit out of it.

    The problem is what, again? Because if the mount wasn't there, they wouldn't be in the cue. They could just as easily NOT help your cue time and go farm the mount for themselves. Honestly, it would be less work to just do it that way.
  1. Idletime's Avatar
    Key words that nobody ever reads: The tank must solo queue. ... . .. .. this is why there's a shortage right now.

    I've got all 4 tanking classes, and all of them are tanks, and all 4 are heroic/raid geared. It's what I love to do, it's how I enjoy this game, and I also absolutely refuse to run LFG with 4 randoms. I'll skip the daily if I can't bring in a few guildies to offset the baddness.

    I've run a solo queue maybe six times during Cataclysm, and the reason is simply: DPS absolutely refuse to listen to battle orders. People have to be told their CC marks over and over, rogues go off and sap the damned skulls half the time after being told star is their target. I use macros that mark my current target in an AOE situation with a skull, mages and locks peel the non-skull off and then scream that I didn't taunt when they die (In pugs, my taunt button is purposely broken). Let's not forget the CC breaking warriors that charge in, ret paladins that just have to use Holy wrath before I can pull the caster out of the group, and the DKs that feel that the world needs more disease by hitting PESTILENCE in a CC situation... and in all of these cases, the people don't listen and you cannot get the group to kick the person so you're stuck with them. And this crap is the stuff I see from the PUGs when I'm with 2-4 guild members, and thanks to the "new and improved baddie system" we are unable to kick them out without threat of a monster debuff or that one vote of the moron that isn't paying attention. Why in the hell would I even bother going solo for the promise of a mount should we complete the instance...??? Of anything, I should be given my mount upfront and guaranteed, and if it's completed I'll take Ashes over anything else, keep the crap I can currently get on my own (and have).

    So why should I help you and your terrible DPS and playstyle? I won't, I have a guild and we help each other out and typically run as a full group, even for alts. If you're not able to get a tank to run with you in the guild, find someone or get a better guild. It's your fault if you have to wait 30-50 minutes to get in a heroic. If your guild members won't run with you, then spend some time reading instead of screwing up. This isn't an FPS, it's an MMO.

    There, that's the answer.
  1. lizon's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by quras View Post
    Bigger or biggest responsibility. Thats crap.

    I don't any group that completed an appropriate level dungeon without using DPS. On that same token, no DPS completed an appropriate dungeon without a healer and tank.

    There all pretty equal in teh grand scheme of dungeon runs. Just cause you are a tank or healer shouldn't mean you get extra treats.

    2 expansions now and blizzard has resorted to bribing the player base for one reason or another. Thats some piss poor designing.
    I've killed plenty of bosses in which retarded dps are dead for half the fight. It's not that hard to avoid avoidable damage! DPS are important, but don't kid yourself, the're at the bottom of the totem pole.

    Keep in mind the shortage of tanks is NOT blizzards problem. Nor is it a design problem. It's a PLAYER problem. It's players that choose to roll hybrid classes without speccing tank/healer. It's the players who choose to roll a pure dps class vs a class that can tank or heal. It's the players that don't want the responsibility of keeping mobs under control or keeping players from dieing from their own mistakes.

    You cannot force players to play something that they don't want to play. The only thing you can do is incite them. This might get me to start running a few extra heroics on my tank chars. All I ever do are my dailies right now. I suppose I could fit in another heroic or 2 for some extra goodies.
  1. Gulanga's Avatar
    The reason pug's is a problem and noone wants to tank them is because Blizzard has made leveling and dungeon-running totally lesson free. Noone learns how to play their class and so we reap what Blizz sows.

    Proof? When did you get good? Facerolling dungeons? No of course not.
    You got good when you had to get good. Ok, some people researched their class and tried to play well, but this was not really needed.

    Blizzard; if you make player put effort in, people will learn = PuG's will be ok.
    This bribe is very short term thinking and insulting to the people that grinded up those mounts as an extra chore they undertook during their off time. I'm ofc only talking about the mounts, noone cares about rest of this free loot. If you have to give an isolated and select group of players free mounts, give them the argent crusade mounts or something not these rare ones.
  1. Radikaal's Avatar
    Simple solution:

    Make shamans able to tank, like all other hybrid classes.

    Make enhancement specc like druids feral, with points to put in tanking abilities.

    We have a taunt, wear shield, hybrid class and always had a few "tank talents" that never made any sense.

    This would lower dungeons ques alot in all levels.
  1. lthompson94's Avatar
    Bigger or biggest responsibility. Thats crap.

    I don't any group that completed an appropriate level dungeon without using DPS. On that same token, no DPS completed an appropriate dungeon without a healer and tank.

    There all pretty equal in teh grand scheme of dungeon runs. Just cause you are a tank or healer shouldn't mean you get extra treats.
    Spoken like a true DPS. Tank dies, you wipe. Healer dies, you wipe. DPS dies, you're fine 9/10.

    Tank fails, DPS dies. Healer dies.

    Healer fail, Tank dead, group wipe.

    DPS fails, they get called a noob.

    The level of responsibility is obvious.
  1. Shieldwall's Avatar
    From a Tanks Perspective: It takes approximately 10 minutes to run old school content to farm mounts. The 'chance' that a random would drop a mount for me far outweighs the hour and a half it would take to complete it.
  1. Lilena's Avatar
    So while I see this as cutting queue times down... all this is going to do is make crappy tanks want to tank. So yeah I might have a quicker queue time, but then I get to wipe in a heroic for 4 hours. YAY! And if/when we actually kill the last boss the TANK is the one that gets the possibility of getting cool extra stuff. Sounds like a GREAT Idea.

    *headdesk*
  1. lthompson94's Avatar
    OMG!

    Blizz, cue times are too long! Fail! Do something!!!! It's not worth my 45 mins blah blah blah...

    Blizz offers a solution:

    Blizz, you fail! I want a mount too! Not fair! Blah blah blah.

    Sigh. Just, sigh.
  1. Thessalor's Avatar
    1. Practice tanking/healing
    2. Queue ONLY as tank/healer.
    3. Build a reputation amongst your battlegroup
    4. Never be booted again

    I mainly tank, so free mounts for being good

    Enjoy the butthurt, DPS.
  1. Patcarnig's Avatar
    I am a tank. The problem is not that tanks are hard to find, it's that tanks do want want to have to try and make up for fail dps and healers found in LFD, and then get blamed for everything that goes wrong. I NEVER queue alone for heroics because of this fact, I just can't stand the idiocy and unattentiveness found in these pugs. The only time I ever queue for randoms without being in a guild group is when I have my roomie holy pally with me and I know we can 2-man anything in the dungeon lol.

    That being said, with these new rewards I may start queueing alone, as will many other tanks I am sure. And for those DPS bitching about "omfglolznofair" either quit complaining about queue times or accept the fact that you may have to give a little to get a little.
  1. Vepres's Avatar
    So, in addition to getting instant queues, and being able to boss people around inside the dungeon (because what dps is going to leave and wait in the queue again) now tanks will get a goodie bag full of treats for each run? Wow, this isn't going to speed up the queue, and it is just adding more frustration to dps roles who wait in the queue. Lovely.
  1. implicationmmo's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilena View Post
    So while I see this as cutting queue times down... all this is going to do is make crappy tanks want to tank. So yeah I might have a quicker queue time, but then I get to wipe in a heroic for 4 hours. YAY! And if/when we actually kill the last boss the TANK is the one that gets the possibility of getting cool extra stuff. Sounds like a GREAT Idea.

    *headdesk*
    On the some note, it might also make the good tanks who have full epic gear, who normally don't do heroics any more, do some heroics.
    So you might also get better tanks than normally.
  1. Thessalor's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by lthompson94 View Post
    OMG!

    Blizz, cue times are too long! Fail! Do something!!!! It's not worth my 45 mins blah blah blah...

    Blizz offers a solution:

    Blizz, you fail! I want a mount too! Not fair! Blah blah blah.

    Sigh. Just, sigh.
  1. muteny's Avatar
    What about for the people who have spent countless days and hours farming these mounts and have put lots of time into them, Thats not fair. make new ones for this dont kill it for others, this is why ppl are leaving this game because for the ppl who like to be unique blizz is killing it.
  1. Darthballz's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by lthompson94 View Post
    Spoken like a true DPS. Tank dies, you wipe. Healer dies, you wipe. DPS dies, you're fine 9/10.

    Tank fails, DPS dies. Healer dies.

    Healer fail, Tank dead, group wipe.

    DPS fails, they get called a noob.

    The level of responsibility is obvious.
    And then comes raids where DPS matters a whole bunch with enrage timers. You are so wrong with what you said. How about next time you are on a boss all the DPS just kill themselves from the start and let the tank and healer down the boss. We'll see how that goes.
  1. Daylosprime's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Vepres View Post
    Wow, this isn't going to speed up the queue, and it is just adding more frustration to dps roles who wait in the queue. Lovely.
    Why? How will having more tanks queue NOT speed things up for dps? I queue as shadow all the time and will love faster pops. What is so frustrating about shorter queues?
  1. Eliot123's Avatar
    I don't see why people say to dps (mostly) ''Don't QQ your queues will be shorter''. Just because it might prove to be an effective change doesn't mean it is good or fair. Being a healer myself, I tend to agree with dps on the whole ''being fair'' issue where, let's face it, only tanks will ever get the bag. Tbh it's not that I won't be getting the reward itself (that much), but that, what the reward is, is a huge overkill, no matter who gets it. They want to ''bribe tanks'', as they said themselves - ok, sure, I understand, but they don't have to give them gold and gems and flasks and pets and mounts and extra points. In the long run it'd be more effective to (..lol..) send everyone who can tank a full ilvl 346 tanking set.

    ...give max-level players another way to collect the pets and mounts they so desire...
    They why not remove rep needed to get them as well. If they desire them so much, why don't they move their lazy asses and get them. Giving vanity pets/mounts is just an insult to people who farmed them. I understand that people who don't care about vanity items don't really care about this change but why should someone be able to get them just based on class/spec. Tiny sporebat - sorry but I farmed Underbog for 4-5 hours to get to exalted just to get that one pet. AT pets - 28 days there. Nether ray pet - 6 hours there. Rivendare's mount - 100+ runs there...
  1. DallasRN's Avatar
    Welcome to the World of the Inexperienced Tank or Healer;

    Guess I'll continue to run heroics with guild!

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