Patch 4.1 Preview -- Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker)
In patch 4.1 we'll be introducing Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms, a new system intended to lower queue times. Call to Arms will automatically detect which class role is currently the least represented in the queue, and offer them additional rewards for entering the Dungeon Finder queue and completing a random level-85 Heroic dungeon.

Any time the Dungeon Finder queue is longer than a few minutes for level-85 Heroics, the Call to Arms system kicks in and determines which role is the least represented. In the case of tanking being the least represented role, the "Call to Arms: Tanks" icon will display in the Dungeon Finder UI menu where class roles are selected, and will also display on the UI when the queue pops and you are selected to enter a dungeon. Regardless of your role, you'll always be able to see which role currently has been Called to Arms, if any.

Call to Arms is meant to lower wait times by offering additional rewards for queuing as the currently least represented role. To be eligible for the additional rewards you must solo queue for a random level-85 Heroic in the role that is currently being Called to Arms, and complete the dungeon by killing the final boss. Every time you hit these requirements (there is no daily limit) you'll receive a goodie bag that will contain some gold, a chance at a rare gem, a chance at a flask/elixir (determined by spec), a good chance of receiving a non-combat pet (including cross faction pets), and a very rare chance at receiving a mount. The pets offered come from a wide variety of sources, and include companions like the Razzashi Hatchling, Cockatiel, and Tiny Sporebat, but the mounts are those specifically only available through dungeons (not raids), like the Reins of the Raven Lord from Sethekk Halls, Swift White Hawkstrider from Magister's Terrace, and Deathcharger's Reins from Stratholme.

This system is meant to address the unacceptable queue times currently being experienced by those that queue for the DPS role at max level. The long queue times are, of course, caused by a very simple lack of representation in the Dungeon Finder by tanks, and to some extent healers. We don't feel the tanking and healing roles have any inherent issues that are causing the representation disparity, except that fulfilling them carries more responsibility. Understandably, players prefer to take on that responsibility in more organized situations than what the Dungeon Finder offers, but perhaps we can bribe them a little. While this system gives tanks and healers something extra, the incentive is being provided so that we can help players in the DPS role get into more dungeons, get better gear, and continue progressing.

While the gold, gems, flasks, and elixirs are OK incentives, we knew we needed something more substantial. We had briefly considered Valor Points and epics, but decided that wouldn't be working toward the goal of helping DPS players progress, and ultimately wouldn't keep tanks and healers in the Dungeon Finder system for very long. We settled on pets and dungeon-found mounts as they’re cosmetic/achievement items that players tend to try to get on their own, so why not change that up and offer them a chance to get some of those elusive pets and mounts in a way that also helps other players? Even if they don't get a pet or mount, or get one they already have, the gold and other goodies still feel rewarding enough that it won't feel like a waste of effort.

We think it's a pretty solid incentive to get tanks and healers queuing, give max-level players another way to collect the pets and mounts they so desire, and above all, to improve wait times for DPS players sitting in queues. In the case of lower level dungeons, it's actually not uncommon for DPS to be the least represented role, and so if this new system works out and we're pleased with the results, we may consider applying this same mechanic to lower level dungeons as well.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Patch 4.1 Preview -- Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 1855 Comments
  1. leorana's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by SpartanJet View Post
    tl;dr but the part I read again makes me bang my head against the desk.

    You cannot give equal rewards to everyone or the net result will not help DPS que time (which is well... WHOLE DAMN POINT). its that simple I don't know how else to put it, its like we are dealing with monkeys. Its a bad way to fix the problem, but it has a chance of working a little bit at least. Giving rewards to everyone would have about the same chance of working as giving the rewards to nobody.

    Either is fine with me, I wouldn't tank a pug given those rewards anyway it just isnt worth it. I will continue to relax as I que as DPS on those days I might need to do a heroic to cap my valor.
    let me ask you this :

    assuming everyone gets the same (good) reward for PUGing through LFD , would you rather :

    a) que as DPS and wait about an hour to get in
    b)que as a tank , get instant entrance and finish the entire instance in less time it would have take simply waiting in line as a DPS .

    isn't that a good enough incentive ? time is money friend

    btw , I've said it before , it's great blizz is making efforts to shorten the waiting times . I just think they should encourage PuGing (tanks included) not just tanking .

    simply put , if more people will want to pug more tanks will want to pug and it will reduce waiting times . the whole DPS VS tanks is out of place . we should work together for common goals , not bitching about who get's what or why some role "worth" more .

    also , these mounts are farmable by anyone so saying that dps can just go get it goes for tanks as well .
  1. SpartanJet's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by leorana View Post
    let me ask you this :

    assuming everyone gets the same (good) reward for PUGing through LFD , would you rather :

    a) que as DPS and wait about an hour to get in
    b)que as a tank m get instant entrance and finish the entire instance in less time it would have take simply waitinh in line as a DPS .

    isn't that a good enough incentive ? time is money friend
    Myself I'd rather just get the heroic done with as little effort as possible. I'd honestly still que up as DPS even if had to wait 2 hours and they offered those useless mounts and non combat pets. Its not worth my effort to tank in these pug groups.

    That is why I que as DPS when I need those valor points. Listen It would be nice to have the rewards for all since I'm not going to tank pugs anyway (those rewards aren't enough for me to deal with pugs) so it would be nice to get when I'm a DPS. But just think, what you are asking is for Blizzard to give you more rewards for entering the que for no reason at all. Giving a chance for everyone to get the rewards is going to attract DPS as well as tanks and healers meaning the net effect won't help que time anyway. So why implement that change when it won't help the problem they are trying to address? It just makes no sense.
  1. leorana's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by SpartanJet View Post
    Myself I'd rather just get the heroic done with as little effort as possible.

    That is why I que as DPS when I need those valor points. Listen It would be nice to have the rewards for all since I'm not going to tank pugs anyway so it would be nice to get when I'm a DPS. But just think, what you are asking is for Blizzard to give you more rewards for entering the que for no reason at all. Giving a chance for everyone to get the rewards is going to attract DPS as well as tanks and healers meaning the net effect won't help que time anyway. So why implement that change when it won't help the problem they are trying to address? It just makes no sense.
    ok...now I see where we differ...

    you're saying giving the same incentive to pug will not shorten the que times because DPS and healers will also want to pug more .

    the problem is not about DPS and healers numbers in the LFD tool . it's about the tank ratios which is low . it's not that there aren't any tanks . it's just they are running with pre made/guild groups and not puging . give a tank a reason to pug and their ratio will go up ,hence reducing waiting times .

    you might choose to do it as a DPS for not willing to carry the burden or take the crap from a bad group , but some tanks might prefer option b .

    I'm also not saying "don't give the greedy tanks more loots" , I'm saying "give us all a reason to PuG" .

    you do have a point though...
    DPS mostly Pug so giving us a perk for soemthing we allready do is meh . however , I don't see how it hurts tanks same way as I don't see how it hurts DPS that tank will get perks as long as everyone is entitled to.
  1. theDocta's Avatar
    LOL i honestly cant believe the dps QQ, its as if they bellieve that blizzard actaully owes you something, really, just take it for what it is and enjoy your 10-15 min queue, it will be as if you are a healer as of right now, or at least my queue time as healer
  1. Techno Spice's Avatar
    To all the people whining, "Oh great, now poorly geared, inexperienced tanks will queue up."
    I'd like to point out a few things.
    #1) Everyone is new to tanking at some point. Do you think all us "good" tanks just popped into our first group and knew all the tricks of the trade? No. Did we all start out properly geared? No. Did we come BORN INTO THIS WORLD with an understanding of every boss fight? Hell. No. The fact is, tanking is a rough job, and it requires skill. The only way you get that skill, AND the GEAR, is to DO IT. Experience is the ONLY teacher to tanking.
    WARNING: INCOMING RANT
    Which means all you shitty dps that stand in the fire and run around like a chicken with your head cut off when you get aggro, but have been CARRIED by good tanks up until now who know how to manipulate their abilities to save YOUR buns are going to have to step it up and be smarter and better as well to help these new tanks out. Maybe that means waiting a couple sunders before you start going apeshit with your burst dps like you had to back in Vanilla (gasp!) I gotta wonder just how many dps warriors and feral druids who don't even have a bear set are like that BECAUSE they've tried tanking and found it completely overwhelming due to irresponsible dps doing whatever they wanted, pulling threat, not assisting, not bothering with crowd control, just because they felt like the tank should be responsible for handling it. "Lol CC? Just pull. Wait, you're taking a lot of damage that way? Maybe you shouldn't wear shit gear!" <--- have actually heard this in a PUG on my raid-geared tank. Quite frankly the #1 reason the majority of the tanks I know DREAD queuing up for randoms is BAD DPS. No, that doesn't mean LOW DPS. That means DPS that don't know how to CC in a pinch, use their silence, snares, roots, spellsteals, and interrupts wisely, and leaves everything but LOLDEEPS to the tank and healer. I will take a low DPS'er that interrupts, roots, and CC's over a high dps'er that don't have the sense to run from Flaming Spirits in the Dragha encounter. If I get into ONE MORE GROUP in Grim Batol with Faildruids who can't wrap their brain around the act of sleeping a Dragonkin, I'll probably throw up my colon. Tanking is hard because DPS rarely pull their share of the responsibility for making even trash encounters easier to hurdle. They just expect good tanks to float them. The problem isn't that there is something wrong with the tanking or healing roles, but that the DPS roles far too regularly don't fill THEIR role to the best of their ability. The "DPS" class role in RPGs were originally called SUPPORT. But rarely do you see them supporting anything in WoW!!

    #2) There's still a kick function! If you're facing a DK tank in Int plate, tanking in Unholy Spec, or a Warrior in Berserker Stance, YOU KNOW WHAT TO DO. It's not rocket science. You are prioritized in queue for a new tank over disbanding and requeueing. At least I've never had to wait 30 minutes for a tank inside a dungeon on my dps before.
  1. leorana's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Techno Spice View Post
    To all the people whining, "Oh great, now poorly geared, inexperienced tanks will queue up."
    I'd like to point out a few things.
    #1) Everyone is new to tanking at some point. Do you think all us "good" tanks just popped into our first group and knew all the tricks of the trade? No. Did we all start out properly geared? No. Did we come BORN INTO THIS WORLD with an understanding of every boss fight? Hell. No. The fact is, tanking is a rough job, and it requires skill. The only way you get that skill, AND the GEAR, is to DO IT. Experience is the ONLY teacher to tanking.
    WARNING: INCOMING RANT
    Which means all you shitty dps that stand in the fire and run around like a chicken with your head cut off when you get aggro, but have been CARRIED by good tanks up until now who know how to manipulate their abilities to save YOUR buns are going to have to step it up and be smarter and better as well to help these new tanks out. Maybe that means waiting a couple sunders before you start going apeshit with your burst dps like you had to back in Vanilla (gasp!) I gotta wonder just how many dps warriors and feral druids who don't even have a bear set are like that BECAUSE they've tried tanking and found it completely overwhelming due to irresponsible dps doing whatever they wanted, pulling threat, not assisting, not bothering with crowd control, just because they felt like the tank should be responsible for handling it. "Lol CC? Just pull. Wait, you're taking a lot of damage that way? Maybe you shouldn't wear shit gear!" <--- have actually heard this in a PUG on my raid-geared tank. Quite frankly the #1 reason the majority of the tanks I know DREAD queuing up for randoms is BAD DPS. No, that doesn't mean LOW DPS. That means DPS that don't know how to CC in a pinch, use their silence, snares, roots, spellsteals, and interrupts wisely, and leaves everything but LOLDEEPS to the tank and healer. I will take a low DPS'er that interrupts, roots, and CC's over a high dps'er that don't have the sense to run from Flaming Spirits in the Dragha encounter. If I get into ONE MORE GROUP in Grim Batol with Faildruids who can't wrap their brain around the act of sleeping a Dragonkin, I'll probably throw up my colon. Tanking is hard because DPS rarely pull their share of the responsibility for making even trash encounters easier to hurdle. They just expect good tanks to float them. The problem isn't that there is something wrong with the tanking or healing roles, but that the DPS roles far too regularly don't fill THEIR role to the best of their ability. The "DPS" class role in RPGs were originally called SUPPORT. But rarely do you see them supporting anything in WoW!!

    #2) There's still a kick function! If you're facing a DK tank in Int plate, tanking in Unholy Spec, or a Warrior in Berserker Stance, YOU KNOW WHAT TO DO. It's not rocket science. You are prioritized in queue for a new tank over disbanding and requeueing. At least I've never had to wait 30 minutes for a tank inside a dungeon on my dps before.
    loved your response . my main is a DPS and I get realy angey when I'm tanking on my alt and the DPS pull all sort of crap even though asked not to or been explained several times . sometimes , just giving a DPS a friendly advice (asked a warlock to stop RoF and SH after pulls) will get you name calling and maybe even voted to kick .

    I can understand why tanks don't like pugs . I do . Puging is a bad option for everyone but in some cases , this is the only option for heroics experiance if you don't have an active guild/friends list .

    I realy don't care that tanks will get the bonus bag . I'm farming for those mounts on my DPS anyway . I also don't mind if ONLY tanks wil get it if it will make waiting time shorter . all I said is the problem isn't the lack of tanks , it's the lack of their will to tanks (since pugs are mostly bad) .

    not all DPS are bad . not all tanks are good . the community as a whole should work to get better and the fight needs to be concentrated on end game bosses and not between "US" and "YOU" as it was on most parts of this thread .

    idealy , for the equality of it I would give the same reward to everyone for enerting and successfully completeing a pug . but even if only tank will benefit from this and waiting times will fall - I'm good
  1. Hodenkrieg's Avatar
    People seem to be forgetting the sea of QQers that are now going to roll tank so they can get a chance at these items. Tanks aren't getting shit, people who think they are, are going to try to cash in on it. Honestly, with this change, and people over-reacting, you will probably have a better chance as DPS when it finally hits.
  1. MerD's Avatar
    First I would like to say that this is something to HELP us dps with lower que times, which I'm completely looking forward to and I support. Everyone complaining about how Tanks/Healers will be getting filthy rich or will be getting these rare mounts like crazy is just plain insanity. I personally think your better off running the old contient for these items since the "drop" rate of the item in your goody bags will more then likely be such small precent. Blizz will more likely keep those mounts as rare as they are now, but now there is just gonna be a second method to obtaining them.

    Also this is a post of what's to come, why are people getting so bent out of shape for something that does have any concrete evidence yet?

    Secondly, I'm a DK, that means I can tank if I want. I choose not to tank randoms becasue people have no patiance for you if you wipe, or lose aggro. Everyone has to learn at some point and when did people start forgetting that? From my expierence tanking at first is not an easy thing to do. I only ever tank in a guild group for the reason that my guildies won't jump down my throat when I loss aggro or wipe us. I don't know how many times I've been kicked from dungeons because we wiped on boss fight or I lose aggro on trash. Sure having a shoot at some rare loot is a bonus and extra gold never hurt anyone. The pressure put on tanks and healers is much higher then us DPS because if either the tank or healer messes up everyone dies. If a DPS messes up, and say for example pulls aggro or stands in the fire and dies, that is thier own fault.

    Like many that have said this before me, this isn't fixing the issues that is stoping people from tanking or healing. Its just trying to help get people into trying it atleast and sure there will be wipes and people queing that aren't ready to take on that task, but that is what the vote kick system is for. I know I said that I have fallen victim to being kicked from dungeons but I don't head into the dungeon with DPS gear or PVP gear. If a player wants to be stupid and not be prepared then kicking them is the right thing to do, but like I said if they are just new to the role and geared correcly then cut them some slack.

    Lasty if your tired of getting into crappy groups run with your guild mates, set up times to do a guild run in the calander if everyone schedules aren't the same or look for people on your realm to run with. This is meant to be a social game where you intract with your fellow players but since the dungeon system made the scene its more about PUGs and the social aspect of WoW is slowly dying. Now what some people want is everything to be quick and easy, but where is the sense of pride if you just faceroll through the dungeon?

    Now I know I'm gonna sound like an elitist (which a stupid term) but back in Vinalla and even BC you had to have those friends and guildies to run dungeons, you had to be social or you would have a hard time trying to get anything done.

    Thats my rant, a bit off topic but I felt like throwing my opinion out there. So what do you guys all think?
  1. Daylosprime's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Hodenkrieg View Post
    People seem to be forgetting the sea of QQers that are now going to roll tank so they can get a chance at these items. Tanks aren't getting shit, people who think they are, are going to try to cash in on it. Honestly, with this change, and people over-reacting, you will probably have a better chance as DPS when it finally hits.
    Nah, 95% of them won't have what it takes to level a tank high enough in order to take advantage of it.
  1. Gvaz's Avatar
    I don't care about the free pets but the free mounts makes me rage.

    YOU GO TO ANZU AND GRIND HIM EVERY DAY

    You shouldn't get something for free that other people worked for. FUck you Blizzard.
  1. IKT's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Gvaz View Post
    You shouldn't get something for free that other people worked for. FUck you Blizzard.
    ROFL

    Nice one.

    edit: To clarify you are talking about the same game that has an expansion come out which instantly gives you faceroll access to all the stuff/raids that 'other people worked for'.

    edit edit: the above is a clear example of a wrath baby, not realising that in TBC you had to have a druid in your group to summon it, and you had to have a full group to even do the dungeon, and it wasn't a 15 minute breeze either.
  1. MerD's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Techno Spice View Post
    To all the people whining, "Oh great, now poorly geared, inexperienced tanks will queue up."
    I'd like to point out a few things.
    #1) Everyone is new to tanking at some point. Do you think all us "good" tanks just popped into our first group and knew all the tricks of the trade? No. Did we all start out properly geared? No. Did we come BORN INTO THIS WORLD with an understanding of every boss fight? Hell. No. The fact is, tanking is a rough job, and it requires skill. The only way you get that skill, AND the GEAR, is to DO IT. Experience is the ONLY teacher to tanking.
    WARNING: INCOMING RANT
    Which means all you shitty dps that stand in the fire and run around like a chicken with your head cut off when you get aggro, but have been CARRIED by good tanks up until now who know how to manipulate their abilities to save YOUR buns are going to have to step it up and be smarter and better as well to help these new tanks out. Maybe that means waiting a couple sunders before you start going apeshit with your burst dps like you had to back in Vanilla (gasp!) I gotta wonder just how many dps warriors and feral druids who don't even have a bear set are like that BECAUSE they've tried tanking and found it completely overwhelming due to irresponsible dps doing whatever they wanted, pulling threat, not assisting, not bothering with crowd control, just because they felt like the tank should be responsible for handling it. "Lol CC? Just pull. Wait, you're taking a lot of damage that way? Maybe you shouldn't wear shit gear!" <--- have actually heard this in a PUG on my raid-geared tank. Quite frankly the #1 reason the majority of the tanks I know DREAD queuing up for randoms is BAD DPS. No, that doesn't mean LOW DPS. That means DPS that don't know how to CC in a pinch, use their silence, snares, roots, spellsteals, and interrupts wisely, and leaves everything but LOLDEEPS to the tank and healer. I will take a low DPS'er that interrupts, roots, and CC's over a high dps'er that don't have the sense to run from Flaming Spirits in the Dragha encounter. If I get into ONE MORE GROUP in Grim Batol with Faildruids who can't wrap their brain around the act of sleeping a Dragonkin, I'll probably throw up my colon. Tanking is hard because DPS rarely pull their share of the responsibility for making even trash encounters easier to hurdle. They just expect good tanks to float them. The problem isn't that there is something wrong with the tanking or healing roles, but that the DPS roles far too regularly don't fill THEIR role to the best of their ability. The "DPS" class role in RPGs were originally called SUPPORT. But rarely do you see them supporting anything in WoW!!

    #2) There's still a kick function! If you're facing a DK tank in Int plate, tanking in Unholy Spec, or a Warrior in Berserker Stance, YOU KNOW WHAT TO DO. It's not rocket science. You are prioritized in queue for a new tank over disbanding and requeueing. At least I've never had to wait 30 minutes for a tank inside a dungeon on my dps before.
    THANK YOU!!! You nailed that one on the head good sir. I completely agree with you. The reason (as stated in my post) that I do not tank is because of bad DPS or people not willing to let you learn.

    The other problem with this is the community has grown so much since the BC and WotLK and these wrath babies (yeah, I went there) got to glide thru heroics because CC and threat management were not even an issue (I know some many people that have never used Omen or even heard of it...) and in the BC days it was so hard to raid that alot of people never stepped foot in BC raid or heroic.

    Also alot of people out there don't know their class at all, or know how their spells works, or they have Recount up and stare at it trying to be top of the list, mean while they are standing in the fire or not even hitting the mobs or boss (I've seen a couple melee DPS on move heavy fights stand off where the boss used to be for like 30secs swinging at nothing)...that is just sad. Sure you can have mega high DPS but once your dead that is zero DPS and if your group wipes cause of this or you hit the enrage timer (due to lacking dps) you just wasted everyone time...congrats.

    I do agree with you saying that as a whole the community should work together to help people learn but most of the time if you give advice you get snaped at or they think it's a personal attack and rage quit. It just seems that most of the people these days playing the game are in it solely for the loot and a quick and easy time and not in it for bettering the community or even being part of it.
  1. chaos61988's Avatar
    Honestly i dont see why people are complaining. theres a reason all the tanks went away. or dont want to do heroics etc with PUGs.

    we are probably the least appreciated, and most disrespected players in the entire game of WoW. whether we are doing our jobs well or not well, we still dont recieve the appreciation we deserve. if the group is living then "GJ healer", if the group is dying oh then it's "fail tank!". we cant win. so i for one am glad to see blizzard give us appreciation for doing our jobs if the player base cant find the decency to do so themselves. stop QQing and appreciate your tanks more and perhaps this problem of no tanks wanting to do heroics wouldn't have began to start with.

    That is all.

    EDIT: to be clear i am a fulltime tank and always have been. i have two mains. a warrior tank and a DK tank and am a former raid leader in BC and wrath, not some noob that doesnt know what im doing. so i speak from experience.
  1. burzum's Avatar
    I've tanked since TBC and lost count of how many times I've soloed the boss after all dps and healer have died standing in the fire. Last one was yesterday, when I had to kite kill the last 1.2mil HP of High Prophet Barim while running away from the Phoenix and asking healer/dps to release and join the fight. The other day whole dark angel phase of Baron Ashbury... Point is tanking is in fact harder than dps in 5mans. I think in raids the other way.

    That said, I prefer to spend 10 minutes running Hc Settek Halls to do a 30min random PUG dungeon which could take 50 minutes!
  1. Keristrasza's Avatar
    Absolute bullshit right there, shows how bad they screwed up tank and heals when NO ONE wants to do it and they have to brib them to actually pug dungeons. Especially by adding in mounts and pets JUST to get them to do it. I'm a mount collector and have a tank and healer but I STILL refuse to tank or heal ... NOTHING in this game is worth filling THOSE spots, not even if they offered Invincible as 100% guarantee drop. :/
  1. IKT's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Keristrasza View Post
    Absolute bullshit right there, shows how bad they screwed up tank and heals when NO ONE wants to do it and they have to brib them to actually pug dungeons.
    There's simply no need to have so many tanks, it's a ratio thing, you only need 1 tank and 1 healer for a dungeon vs 3 dps, and that ratio is pushed even further when you only need 2 or so tanks in a 25 man, there's naturally going to be more dps than tanks and healers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keristrasza View Post
    Especially by adding in mounts and pets JUST to get them to do it. I'm a mount collector and have a tank and healer but I STILL refuse to tank or heal ... NOTHING in this game is worth filling THOSE spots, not even if they offered Invincible as 100% guarantee drop. :/
    You trying to push a personal preference as a solid fact, which it isn't, it's just a preference.

    I personally prefer tanking over dps or healing, this doesn't mean that DPS or healing is broken, it's just a different play style required which I don't prefer.
  1. Keristrasza's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Nastified View Post
    So in summation:

    We made the tough jobs suck even more, and here is our way of admitting we overdid it in trying to show you how hardcore Blizzard is.
    This right here. They made those two types SUCK to the point no one in their right mind wants to do it ... so instead of fixing it because someone out there from their prized raiding guilds might cry so they pulled out a carrot on a stick to "force" people to play roles they hate, or to beg those who love it the way it is to play dungeons they don't care to do anymore.
  1. neveq's Avatar
    What bothers most people, IMO, is that tanks and heals will get the mounts the rest of us put real effort into getting. And as it stands, some of them will get it just by doing their daily heroic that they would have done anyway.

    A solution is for the goodie bag is available after the first of the day(that they would have dont regardless). This way, they'll have to work toward the mounts like the rest of us did, instead of being a bonus for doing something they would have anyway.



    Also, as it stands, no tank will want to queue with friends or guildies, because they'll lose their goodie bag. While some will group up anyway, as to avoid random bads, some won't. It's funny to me that that new system gives prefrence to dps without tank friends.
  1. mmocca5d152c38's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Techno Spice View Post
    To all the people whining, "Oh great, now poorly geared, inexperienced tanks will queue up."
    I'd like to point out a few things.
    #1) Everyone is new to tanking at some point. Do you think all us "good" tanks just popped into our first group and knew all the tricks of the trade? No. Did we all start out properly geared? No. Did we come BORN INTO THIS WORLD with an understanding of every boss fight? Hell. No. The fact is, tanking is a rough job, and it requires skill. The only way you get that skill, AND the GEAR, is to DO IT. Experience is the ONLY teacher to tanking.
    WARNING: INCOMING RANT
    Which means all you shitty dps that stand in the fire and run around like a chicken with your head cut off when you get aggro, but have been CARRIED by good tanks up until now who know how to manipulate their abilities to save YOUR buns are going to have to step it up and be smarter and better as well to help these new tanks out. Maybe that means waiting a couple sunders before you start going apeshit with your burst dps like you had to back in Vanilla (gasp!) I gotta wonder just how many dps warriors and feral druids who don't even have a bear set are like that BECAUSE they've tried tanking and found it completely overwhelming due to irresponsible dps doing whatever they wanted, pulling threat, not assisting, not bothering with crowd control, just because they felt like the tank should be responsible for handling it. "Lol CC? Just pull. Wait, you're taking a lot of damage that way? Maybe you shouldn't wear shit gear!" <--- have actually heard this in a PUG on my raid-geared tank. Quite frankly the #1 reason the majority of the tanks I know DREAD queuing up for randoms is BAD DPS. No, that doesn't mean LOW DPS. That means DPS that don't know how to CC in a pinch, use their silence, snares, roots, spellsteals, and interrupts wisely, and leaves everything but LOLDEEPS to the tank and healer. I will take a low DPS'er that interrupts, roots, and CC's over a high dps'er that don't have the sense to run from Flaming Spirits in the Dragha encounter. If I get into ONE MORE GROUP in Grim Batol with Faildruids who can't wrap their brain around the act of sleeping a Dragonkin, I'll probably throw up my colon. Tanking is hard because DPS rarely pull their share of the responsibility for making even trash encounters easier to hurdle. They just expect good tanks to float them. The problem isn't that there is something wrong with the tanking or healing roles, but that the DPS roles far too regularly don't fill THEIR role to the best of their ability. The "DPS" class role in RPGs were originally called SUPPORT. But rarely do you see them supporting anything in WoW!!

    #2) There's still a kick function! If you're facing a DK tank in Int plate, tanking in Unholy Spec, or a Warrior in Berserker Stance, YOU KNOW WHAT TO DO. It's not rocket science. You are prioritized in queue for a new tank over disbanding and requeueing. At least I've never had to wait 30 minutes for a tank inside a dungeon on my dps before.
    Seriously hand this guy a cookie and award, he hit it spot on, thank you.
  1. Chelody's Avatar
    The big idea here is cost benefit analysis. Right now, while there are Tanks and Healers in the queues, its not nearly enough to offset the large amount of DPS players punching LFD tickets to get their daily Valor. So we get long queues. What Blizzard aims to do is cut down that obscenely long wait time by giving out incentives to Tanks (Or healers) in order to increase the market, so maybe we can get what -we- want. If all the exclusive items and pets and mounts are worth it or not is something that Blizzard will figure out once its out there, and if the benefits are indeed too high, they'll nerf it to the floor next Tuesday. Only time will tell.

    For you DPS out there, stop inciting our face-smashing cousins. We cant deny that out here in the DPS pool there flaots osme filth even we dont like. The term 'Huntard' wasn't invented for giggles as much as it was in spite, and DPS is considered a lot easier than both Tanking and Healing, so we attract all the facerollers like a fat guy to a chocolate bar. And yes, there are us intelligent ones out there who know the mechanics and make the collective lives of our classamates easier, but until we figure out how to spay and neuter the rest of us, were going to be dealing with crap.

    As for you tanks, I would say that step one is to remove yourselves from your absurdly high horse. Yes, your important, no, we couldn't get by without you, we get that. That does not give you immediate rights for this 'Holier-than-thou' attitude that I find so many of you picking up nowdays. Too many tanks quit a pull after a single wipe that can commonly be put to an honest mistake, and spend the rest of their days laughing in their little tank circles about how brainless a DPS'er must be because he or she clearly ruined your day. You're not Gods, your nor Lords, and you need us like we need you, so get over yourselves. Until you and your healer BFF can solo Drahga Shadowburner or Erudax or Corla or any other number of Heroic bosses that -require- us DPS, you shouldnt go around tossing remarks about how 'unbelievably useless' we all are. You're getting a good thing here - Free shinies for doing what you're already doing. Theres no need to complain any further.

    I apologize now for any nice, good, and understanding tanks. You are few, but you are wonderful, and I make sure each one knows that after every instance I have with them.

    Healers... You guys keep up the good work. I certainly hope that you get some good things with this.

    Oh, and finally, for anyone who thinks theres even the possibility of DPS getting the Call to Arms benefit? Every class in the game can play the DPS role, and four of them (Hunters, Rogues, Mages, Warlocks) Can -only- play the DPS roll. There will -always- be a huge number of DPS out there, far more than any other role. We wont be seeing anything from this.

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