MMO-Champion - Stars Heroic Shannox World First Kill, Blue Posts
Stars (TW - Crystalpine Stinger) already working on Firelands Heroic - Shannox World First Kill
A lot of guilds killed all the bosses of the Firelands raid in normal mode already but it seems that Stars (TW - Crystalpine Stinger) decided to take it one step further.

After clearing the encounters in normal mode, the entire raid changed faction to reset their raid ID and started working on heroic encounters shortly after, that kind of thing happened in the past and it's not really surprising to see it used again to grab first kills.

As I write these lines, Stars killed Shannox in Heroic Mode. It's not really my place to judge if something is against the rules or not and I will just keep tracking heroic first kills as they happen.



Blue Posts
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Eternal Embers and Seething Cinders Droprates
You’re assuming the drop chances for embers averages out to .5 per boss in 10’s and 2 per boss in 25’s, which it doesn’t. Whether you’re in 10’s or 25’s you’re going to see an equal drop average for Eternal Embers per player, and the same can be said for Seething Cinders. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

New Content - Differences between PvE and PvP Players
The answer to your question revolves around a common difference in how PvE players and PvP players approach the game. Generally speaking, PvE players want more quests, more dungeons and more raids to experience -- more and new content is king. On the other hand, while some PvP players do want new maps, many others would be happier if we perfected the Arena or BG maps that already exist - or even if we cut existing maps. After all, PvP players don’t graduate out of Arathi Basin or Dalaran sewers the same way PvE players graduate from dungeon to heroic, or raid tier to raid tier. We did make some improvements to the existing PvP maps, such as trying to return Ring of Valor to circulation and changing the way flags work in Eye of the Storm (for rated play).

We’d love to add a lot more maps than we currently do, but we need to do it in such a way that doesn’t make the PvP experience worse for players who are more interested in refining their PvP experience than in seeing new maps. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Patch 4.2 Hairstyles
We had a bunch of hairstyles we threw in for testing on the PTR and the majority of them did not pass the test. (quality, art direction, bugs, etc.) (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Patch 4.0 Raids now puggable
We specifically intend for the 4.0 raids to be puggable now that Firelands is out. Grabbing some tier 11 by way of Justice, quest rewards, plus across the board difficulty nerfs should really be enough to get them going.

The patch has only been out a day or so though. I think it'll probably take a little bit before people really get it into their heads that they should be pugging the previous tier because it's not too hard to be successful. It's just getting people used to the various encounters and mechanics.

Maybe people are waiting for the holiday weekend? If nothing else, leading one yourself is always an option. I think we'd agree that we need some better ways to get pug raids together considering we intend to follow the "New Raid is Hard, old Tier is Puggable" format from here on.

Still unsure what that means regarding the final raid (i.e. Deathwing). Do pugs not get to see him until the next expansion is released? (Not saying whether that's a good thing or not, but personally I enjoyed getting to Arthas on some of my alts without spending near as much time as I did on my main.)
In ICC we had a stacking raid buff over time which gradually made the content easier. Not saying we’ll do that exact thing again but the philosophy was around even then that everyone who wants to can eventually see the content, but it’s going to take very organized groups (which typically means raiding guilds) to see the encounters first.

So casuals will constantly be a tier behind for the rest of the life of this game? If that is what is actually coming out of your mouth I'll save myself the time and unsub now. What a piss poor vision for your game. There are normal and heroic versions of raids for a reason. That heroic difficulty was implemented so that the two segments of the population (casual and hardcore) would both have something to do. You are now bifurcating the raiding population AGAIN, by telling casuals that they have to run around in the left overs.
Trying to label all of our players as “casual puggers” vs.” hardcore raiders” is ridiculously simplistic. Among raiders there is an enormous diversity of players. There are those who will raid virtually every night when new content is out, to guilds that raid once a week (and even then will cancel raid nights fairly commonly). If you must try to label raiders, you’d be closer to the Blizzard model if you said normal mode is for organized raids, heroic mode is for more hardcore organized raids, and the previous tier of content (and Baradin Hold) is targeted for pick-up groups. Also consider that even within a raid zone we try to design easier bosses (usually near the front) and more challenging ones (usually at the end) which can help blur those lines and offer smoother transitions for each category.

Overall, we think you’ll have a better experience playing World of Warcraft if you play with friends, either existing or those you meet in game. WoW, while much more solo friendly than most older MMO games, is still intended as a multiplayer game. We provide features like Dungeon Finder for when playing with friends isn’t possible, and as we said above, we’d like to offer more features like that. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Tabards Tab
Are there any considerations for a tab for your tabards?
Yes!

[...] To clarify: he asked if we were considering it, and yes we are considering it. :) (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Keyring Removal
On a serious point though some people are upset about the removal of the key ring. While that seems like we're just taking it out to be bullies, it specifically frees up storage space we can then make into useful features. Not that it will specifically be used for 'tabard storage', but we are going to be using the space the removal of the key ring freed up. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Thrall and Aggra's "wedding"
Correct. Their pledging of their lives to one another was essentially their 'wedding', although I'm sure Orcs don't use such nomenclature to refer to these things. Maybe 'life bond' fits better. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Does Blizzard plan on adding the rest of the dungeons and raids to the Dungeon Journal?
Absolutely. With the time it takes to present a single boss in the Dungeon Journal we were only confident supplying Cataclysm content with the release of the feature in 4.2, but we are on a path to filling it out with all dungeons and raids in the entire game. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Steam Summer Sales
In a very, very, very unrelated sidenote, Steam Summer Sales are up. I don't usually news non-WoW stuff but ... well, I like Valve and I'm pretty sure a lot of people will be happy to hear the news. Also, don't forget that we have a Video Games Forum!
This article was originally published in forum thread: Stars Heroic Shannox World First Kill, Blue Posts started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 625 Comments
  1. zekiel218's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Comrade1182 View Post
    Other guilds can get to the same point in around 1 week from when they killed the boss ergo a week head start. How long it actually took them doesn't mean they actually transferred say 1 hour before US maintenance ends instead of when they actually did. Also had they not been locked out they could have used the entire lockout to progress further. Your logic astounds me.
    you are right about others guilds can get to the same point (starting HM) in around 1 week, but they DO NOT START the race at the same TIME. US servers will always get started FIRST, EU second then Taiwan. If a boss took 1 day to practice and get a kill, Taiwan guilds will always 1 day behind US and EU progress regardless of skills. get it?

    Now if you call getting head start is cheating then Blizzard been giving advantages to US guilds all along?? but you still call it legitimate kill from a US guild then why Star's kill is not legitimate?

    of course, I don't deny that they exploited the rule to get starting HM first, but the kill itself is legitimated. They don't get extra attempts like Grand Trial of the Crusader, they just get head start LIKE US servers always do.
  1. Sorx's Avatar
    so gaining an advantage is wrong if you spend money?

    World first have hardly even been a true mark of skill, nor has it ever been a fair race. It has been of my understanding that other regions, such as the one Stars is in, have on many occasions received content much later than other regions. They're effectively left out of the race, but do we see the world stop for them so we all can begin on a fair footing? No. Also, they don't even have a ptr afaik.

    Money is just a resource, just as any other thing like time(and imo, far more valuable than a measly 25$ to transfer). You use it, you spend it. If your not willing to make the sacrifices it takes to win, don't be surprised when you get left behind.

    I take it blizz will do something. Having everything cleared in the first week sorta makes them look bad.
  1. Knaar's Avatar
    According to wow-forums, they are currently 3/7 heroic down and they keep going
  1. Looneytoon's Avatar
    A one man race means a lot to the winner I hear.
  1. G l o w y r m's Avatar
    It's the very definition of cheating. They obviously know that. They knew what they were doing was giving them an advantage with resources outside the game and not their own skill inside of it. Anyone thinking it's alright, you need your head examined. When you're trying to be the best at something for the sake of competition, you have to ACTUALLY COMPETE WITH PEOPLE instead of paying to get ahead of them.
  1. godofslack's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by twilightsamus View Post
    I think you're just bitter that they can tell you to "fight with honour" and then turn around and rape you and every other guild in Firelands.
    I believe what you are saying is bullshit. I have some evidence. When you look at most of the world's first kills since Cata you realize Stars has 0. While Paragon has 6. Method has 3. And For the Horde has 1. It's safe to say that Stars might be out gunned, despite being the 5th guild world wide.
  1. G l o w y r m's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorx View Post
    It has been of my understanding that other regions, such as the one Stars is in, have on many occasions received content much later than other regions. They're effectively left out of the race...
    Your understanding is incorrect. They may get normal modes a few days later but everyone would start Heroics the next week on the same reset.

    They are avoiding the competition, how can you be proud of any kills achieved like that?
  1. hagar4172's Avatar
    honestly i not sure i would give world first kills guidls props cause more than likely they were involved in all teh beta testing so they all know strat and shit way before it goes live. point out one of these guilds that did no beta testing yet defeated it first i will give that guild props
  1. Grinco's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by G l o w y r m View Post
    It's the very definition of cheating. They obviously know that. They knew what they were doing was giving them an advantage with resources outside the game and not their own skill inside of it. Anyone thinking it's alright, you need your head examined. When you're trying to be the best at something for the sake of competition, you have to ACTUALLY COMPETE WITH PEOPLE instead of paying to get ahead of them.
    Exactly.

    And just like it has been stated, you can't do the same thing they did in Europe or USA servers so if you think that is fair then you clearly don't know what fair game is. Fair enough, Ensidia did it in the past and it was annoying and unfair as hell already then but I guess Blizzard didn't fix it without a reason?
  1. Nocturnes's Avatar
    What are we all actualy moaning about? Changed or not, who cares, they killed the boss on hc and 7/7 before that so gratz imo. Those bosses didn't get easier because they faction changed and don't be pissed or jealous cause they were one step ahead of us on the intellect part.
  1. Atylia's Avatar
    To all the crying fanboys in this thread:

    Does paying IN REAL LIFE MONEY to migrate to the USA to get a day advantage count as exploiting? BAN THEM!On a more serious note, the faction change gimmick was available to every guild so there isnt an UNFAIR advantage. This is similar to multi-boxing, it grants the user an advantage over other users but it is available to everyone therefor its not an unfair advantage, aka not an exploit.

    Quote Originally Posted by XeroFour View Post
    We learned of Stars doing this within 20 mins of them faction transferring and an agreement was made on IRC between us, Paragon and some other top guilds that we would not use this tactic and wait for a fair race next week.They won't be listed on wowprogress for these kills so they are out of the race as far as the other top guilds are concerned. The problem comes if they get their kill(s) removed but are still able to compete legitimately next week. They will have a lot more heroic experience than the rest of us and so still be at an advantage. If they are allowed to keep their gear they will have an even bigger advantage.It's funny because of the whole storm Stars kicked up over our atramedes kill, accusing us of using an exploit we didn't even know about (LoSing the modulation) and concluding by telling us to 'fight with honour'. The level they have stooped to here is about as dishonourable as you can get.
    Im happy for you that you were able to create your own dreamworld where Stars does not excist and you can continue your race for (dream)World Firsts with the other guilds in your very own world
  1. Exodus_The_Mage's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by G l o w y r m View Post
    Your understanding is incorrect. They may get normal modes a few days later but everyone would start Heroics the next week on the same reset.

    They are avoiding the competition, how can you be proud of any kills achieved like that?
    When US and EU guilds get all the heroic attempts on PTR ? Where's the fairness? Where's the competition?
  1. Comrade1182's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by zekiel218 View Post
    you are right about others guilds can get to the same point (starting HM) in around 1 week, but they DO NOT START the race at the same TIME. US servers will always get started FIRST, EU second then Taiwan. If a boss took 1 day to practice and get a kill, Taiwan guilds will always 1 day behind US and EU progress regardless of skills. get it?
    Of course, that much is abundantly clear. The problem is an old one which should be changed, but probably never will be down to resources required etc. That doesn't make it right what they did however purely down to the fact that they literally paid money for a second shot at the same lockout which other guilds didn't / couldn't do. And if you want to bring other Taiwanese guilds into it...why should they alone have a head start over every other TW guild? That alone has its own rankings and it screws everyone else over.
  1. moocowfrakmilk's Avatar
    More disturbing is the fact that this issue has even come up. That even the worlds best guilds could clear the entire instance in normal and then learn and kill a heroic in less than 2 days bodes poorly for the longevity of this raid tier.
  1. Quenchiest's Avatar
    I don't understand all those saying the raid ID's don't reset upon faction change on US and EU realms. They sure as hell do as any time I've faction changed in the last couple years all my raid ID's have reset. In-fact, before I'd faction change I'd make sure I had done raids such as VoA or BH so that I could do them twice for that week. If Blizzard bans anybody they'd have to go ahead and ban all of those people that have been doing it for years regardless of whether or not they're in a top-tier guild.

    And who's to say what isn't fair. All the realms don't have their maintenance at the same time so it's always been discombobulated as far as raid advantages have gone. This time a TW guild decided they wanted to be the ones with the first shot, and they got it.
  1. Sorx's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by G l o w y r m View Post
    Your understanding is incorrect. They may get normal modes a few days later but everyone would start Heroics the next week on the same reset.

    They are avoiding the competition, how can you be proud of any kills achieved like that?
    The race has been going on much longer than just Cata. Im talking about all the expansion. TBH, I wouldn't be particularly proud of any world first. It's not a fair playing ground to begin with, granted a bit better come cata.

    They're not avoiding competition, they're leaving it behind. Given the freedom to transfer, im sure many other guilds will follow them come the next competition. Personally, I don't like it but it's really not as bad as it seems. Players do alot of things to stay on top, such as rerolling, participating the the ptr etc. While these aren't neccessarily bought with money, it costs time. Im sorry bit if you willing to put more than 3hrs into a character 25$ is hardly comparable.

    Should it exist? probably not. It doesn't add anything to the competition. I mean either way, if people eventually follow or if Stars is brought back down, it ends in the same playing field.
  1. Grinco's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Quenchiest View Post
    I don't understand all those saying the raid ID's don't reset upon faction change on US and EU realms. They sure as hell do as any time I've faction changed in the last couple years all my raid ID's have reset. In-fact, before I'd faction change I'd make sure I had done raids such as VoA or BH so that I could do them twice for that week. If Blizzard bans anybody they'd have to go ahead and ban all of those people that have been doing it for years regardless of whether or not they're in a top-tier guild.

    And who's to say what isn't fair. All the realms don't have their maintenance at the same time so it's always been discombobulated as far as raid advantages have gone. This time a TW guild decided they wanted to be the ones with the first shot, and they got it.
    We've just got some new recruits from different realms and different factions in the middle of the raidweek and they all still have lockouts. It has been changed.
  1. Brett Skullcrack's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorx View Post
    so gaining an advantage is wrong if you spend money?
    Correct. They paid money to gain a week's advantage over other guilds. That is cheating and shows severe lack of sportsmanship. They just disqualified themselves from the whole T12 race.
  1. Sternrage's Avatar
    in order for stars to have gotten that extra lockout, they had to pay $25 a person, or whatever the TW equilivent is. which times 25 is a lot of extra money for blizz. Now I think what they did was a clever use of game mechanics which should be nerfed immediately, but I think it deserves as much of a ban as ensidias saronite bomb thing, which shouldn't've been banned as it was a roggue using his rotation, but w/e I dont make millions of dollars a month and control the world, or warcraft.
  1. Arpagio's Avatar
    Just thank god it wasn't another post about paragon... thank you thank you thank you. Nothing against them, I'm just sick of seeing their name on top.

    Gratz Stars. Though I don't agree with your methods, I applaud you on your achievement and getting the boss down. Not sure why people care so much about world firsts, but grats anyways.

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