Stars Heroic Shannox World First Kill, Blue Posts

Stars (TW - Crystalpine Stinger) already working on Firelands Heroic - Shannox World First Kill
A lot of guilds killed all the bosses of the Firelands raid in normal mode already but it seems that Stars (TW - Crystalpine Stinger) decided to take it one step further.

After clearing the encounters in normal mode, the entire raid changed faction to reset their raid ID and started working on heroic encounters shortly after, that kind of thing happened in the past and it's not really surprising to see it used again to grab first kills.

As I write these lines, Stars killed Shannox in Heroic Mode. It's not really my place to judge if something is against the rules or not and I will just keep tracking heroic first kills as they happen.



Blue Posts
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Eternal Embers and Seething Cinders Droprates
You’re assuming the drop chances for embers averages out to .5 per boss in 10’s and 2 per boss in 25’s, which it doesn’t. Whether you’re in 10’s or 25’s you’re going to see an equal drop average for Eternal Embers per player, and the same can be said for Seething Cinders. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

New Content - Differences between PvE and PvP Players
The answer to your question revolves around a common difference in how PvE players and PvP players approach the game. Generally speaking, PvE players want more quests, more dungeons and more raids to experience -- more and new content is king. On the other hand, while some PvP players do want new maps, many others would be happier if we perfected the Arena or BG maps that already exist - or even if we cut existing maps. After all, PvP players don’t graduate out of Arathi Basin or Dalaran sewers the same way PvE players graduate from dungeon to heroic, or raid tier to raid tier. We did make some improvements to the existing PvP maps, such as trying to return Ring of Valor to circulation and changing the way flags work in Eye of the Storm (for rated play).

We’d love to add a lot more maps than we currently do, but we need to do it in such a way that doesn’t make the PvP experience worse for players who are more interested in refining their PvP experience than in seeing new maps. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Patch 4.2 Hairstyles
We had a bunch of hairstyles we threw in for testing on the PTR and the majority of them did not pass the test. (quality, art direction, bugs, etc.) (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Patch 4.0 Raids now puggable
We specifically intend for the 4.0 raids to be puggable now that Firelands is out. Grabbing some tier 11 by way of Justice, quest rewards, plus across the board difficulty nerfs should really be enough to get them going.

The patch has only been out a day or so though. I think it'll probably take a little bit before people really get it into their heads that they should be pugging the previous tier because it's not too hard to be successful. It's just getting people used to the various encounters and mechanics.

Maybe people are waiting for the holiday weekend? If nothing else, leading one yourself is always an option. I think we'd agree that we need some better ways to get pug raids together considering we intend to follow the "New Raid is Hard, old Tier is Puggable" format from here on.

Still unsure what that means regarding the final raid (i.e. Deathwing). Do pugs not get to see him until the next expansion is released? (Not saying whether that's a good thing or not, but personally I enjoyed getting to Arthas on some of my alts without spending near as much time as I did on my main.)
In ICC we had a stacking raid buff over time which gradually made the content easier. Not saying we’ll do that exact thing again but the philosophy was around even then that everyone who wants to can eventually see the content, but it’s going to take very organized groups (which typically means raiding guilds) to see the encounters first.

So casuals will constantly be a tier behind for the rest of the life of this game? If that is what is actually coming out of your mouth I'll save myself the time and unsub now. What a piss poor vision for your game. There are normal and heroic versions of raids for a reason. That heroic difficulty was implemented so that the two segments of the population (casual and hardcore) would both have something to do. You are now bifurcating the raiding population AGAIN, by telling casuals that they have to run around in the left overs.
Trying to label all of our players as “casual puggers” vs.” hardcore raiders” is ridiculously simplistic. Among raiders there is an enormous diversity of players. There are those who will raid virtually every night when new content is out, to guilds that raid once a week (and even then will cancel raid nights fairly commonly). If you must try to label raiders, you’d be closer to the Blizzard model if you said normal mode is for organized raids, heroic mode is for more hardcore organized raids, and the previous tier of content (and Baradin Hold) is targeted for pick-up groups. Also consider that even within a raid zone we try to design easier bosses (usually near the front) and more challenging ones (usually at the end) which can help blur those lines and offer smoother transitions for each category.

Overall, we think you’ll have a better experience playing World of Warcraft if you play with friends, either existing or those you meet in game. WoW, while much more solo friendly than most older MMO games, is still intended as a multiplayer game. We provide features like Dungeon Finder for when playing with friends isn’t possible, and as we said above, we’d like to offer more features like that. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Tabards Tab
Are there any considerations for a tab for your tabards?
Yes!

[...] To clarify: he asked if we were considering it, and yes we are considering it. :) (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Keyring Removal
On a serious point though some people are upset about the removal of the key ring. While that seems like we're just taking it out to be bullies, it specifically frees up storage space we can then make into useful features. Not that it will specifically be used for 'tabard storage', but we are going to be using the space the removal of the key ring freed up. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Thrall and Aggra's "wedding"
Correct. Their pledging of their lives to one another was essentially their 'wedding', although I'm sure Orcs don't use such nomenclature to refer to these things. Maybe 'life bond' fits better. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Does Blizzard plan on adding the rest of the dungeons and raids to the Dungeon Journal?
Absolutely. With the time it takes to present a single boss in the Dungeon Journal we were only confident supplying Cataclysm content with the release of the feature in 4.2, but we are on a path to filling it out with all dungeons and raids in the entire game. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Steam Summer Sales
In a very, very, very unrelated sidenote, Steam Summer Sales are up. I don't usually news non-WoW stuff but ... well, I like Valve and I'm pretty sure a lot of people will be happy to hear the news. Also, don't forget that we have a Video Games Forum!
This article was originally published in forum thread: Stars Heroic Shannox World First Kill, Blue Posts started by Boubouille View original post
Published on 2011-07-01 01:32 AM
625 Comments
Comments 622 Comments
  1. Shack's Avatar
    Grats to stars. Probably the only way could prove to get a world 1st since always behind US And EU.
  1. Jurwi's Avatar
    Gotta love how people talk about clever use of game mechanics. They used a fucking external web service to reset their raid lock. And no, it's not a game mechanic.
  1. mmocafb5b5dbb3's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by AvalonTLW View Post
    WHO FUCKING CARES? They PAYED to change faction, taht is NOT CHEATING. Jeezes, what a bunch of pricks some of you are. And, who the hell cares about the achievements anyway. If you want to feel speciall, try and do the boss's without addons and tactics gathered from people whom killed the boss before... Once again, what a bunch of pricks you guys are.
    You can state your opinion in a much less raging and offensive way .. /reported

    First of all, they should congratulated for getting a heroic kill fast. But since we don't know how long they worked on it, we can't say it's the fastest (aka world's first) kill yet. Technically, yes it is, but that's simply because others didn't get the chance to work on it. I'm pretty sure Blizzard wants to keep the competition going between the top guild so they'll remove their kill and possibly ban them. Let's see what happens next reset to see who really deserves that world first FoS.
  1. Bahska's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Sangriaa View Post
    I hope something happens to Stars, I mean... come on... get it fair and square, don't cheat the system.
    It's not the first time this has happend and it probably wont be the last.
  1. Lostprophet's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by imagine View Post
    Excuse me but how was this exploiting?

    Its called takeing advantage of a flawed system, there is a diffrence.
    If a door is open, that doesnt mean u can go in and steal everything... this is exactly the same thing here... screw you stars ,,|,,
  1. h4rr0d's Avatar
    Abusing the system AND in 25 man. Not impressed.
  1. godofslack's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Zdrasti View Post
    What their competition thinks of them really doesn't matter. In the realm of public opinion what matters is the publics opinion. And while they managed to get this kill through what can probably be seen as unsportsmanlike conduct, much of the public doesn't really view this as a sport.

    As far as world first is concerned, they fought the actual fight and they didn't do anything underhanded in the encounter itself. And consequently, they killed the boss before anyone else in the world killed the boss. So to many, they have the world first.

    On a side note, many people say the US starting 2 days early is nothing and not a big deal. Well, if 2 days is nothing, surely 5 days can't be all that much either. This is after all one big reason to not respect any of this world first nonsense as its not a fair race to begin with.
    Ok first thing's first the fact that the majority of the public don't see this as a real sport is irrelevant. What matters is the opinion of those that do. And the vast majority of us think that what they did is full fledged cheating.

    Also, there is no evidence they fought the actual fight. Once you are caught cheating your actions are suspect. And there is no evidence that they actually did the fight as intended. In fact I lean on believing that they didn't, as the only evidence is a single screenshot. No video, no "proper" screenshot, no statement by the guild itself.

    And finally, no one sane has ever said that the current system is fair. But, jumping forward a week certainly isn't either. And this is a guild that bitched over Paragon's non-exploiting Nef kill and Method's clearly unaware-of-bug kill. I find it a bit odd that a guild that runs around telling people to "fight with honor" has no problems taking a cab part of the way down the race.
  1. Ferrik's Avatar
    Not like other guilds didn't faction change in both ToC and ICC to reset their lockout attempts.
  1. Beachcomber's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Yemiena View Post
    that cant be against the rules, blizzard designed it like that, its no glitch
    It's an exploit to bypass an in-game raid timer. They didn't design it like that, it's basically an oversight on Blizz's part and some people were nerdy enough to pay money to take advantage of it.
  1. Zetsu727's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Omirr View Post
    You can state your opinion in a much less raging and offensive way .. /reported

    First of all, they should congratulated for getting a heroic kill fast. But since we don't know how long they worked on it, we can't say it's the fastest (aka world's first) kill yet. Technically, yes it is, but that's simply because others didn't get the chance to work on it. I'm pretty sure Blizzard wants to keep the competition going between the top guild so they'll remove their kill and possibly ban them. Let's see what happens next reset to see who really deserves that world first FoS.
    So do we consider Paragon's World 1st kill for Heroic Ragnaros legit when Blizzard had them design the encounter?

    Blizzard is constantly creating these situations and yet, people are faulting the guilds and raids for exploiting. If Blizzard had their s*** together and paid attention to these issues rather than putting in new /roar emotes, guilds and raids wouldn't have to resort to these methods.
  1. Rafy's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by dascylus View Post
    It falls under "obtaining a competitive advantage over other players" in the EULA. Or in other words, exploiting, which can oftentimes result in permanent account suspension based on the severity of the exploit taking place. The fact that these actions were premeditated won't help their case with Blizzard's customer support staff. You can say you were testing the encounters as much as you want, but the straight facts is you did something with the full intent on gaining a competitive advantage over other players and maximum punishment should be expected.
    no it doesn't fall under that.
    the didn't gain advantage over other players without others being able to do the same.
    that means you can do the same.
    every guild can do the same.
    it's not exploiting, hacking, etc. w/e you want to call it.
    They can just simply say: "hey we just decided to change factions because we like X better than Y."
    Deal with it and stop crying.
    Pretty sure most of you didn't even down 2-3 bosses anyway...
  1. godofslack's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrik View Post
    Not like other guilds didn't faction change in both ToC and ICC to reset their lockout attempts.
    This is totally different. The lockout resets could also be countered by having alts. What Stars has done is something that is literally impossible within game mechanics, they ran the instance on HM during the first week. That's SUPPOSED to be impossible, but they exploited a faction change to get around that.
  1. mmoc958dfdf8c4's Avatar
    Wowprogress is getting us on the nerves, we (as a EU guild) are losing applies therefore fame because people on our server rely on this website to see our progression.
  1. Xanwryn's Avatar
    Whilst I don't know what's specified about this issue in the ToU/EULA, this is definitely not mentioned in the Faction Change FAQ. Nothing about dungeon or raid locks are even mentioned there, so it can be presumed that this isn't an exploit by the FAQ's standards. The ToU, of course, could still screw the guild over and Blizzard could simply do them in if they felt so inclined.


    Regardless of that, it's still a rather clever move but definitely not something I'd shell the money out to do. It astonishes me that ~25 people would willingly pay a small fee just to get something as trivial as a "world first" in a video game. Is it an achievement? I suppose so, but you don't get rewarded anything for it. You get a few months worth of fame that quickly dies down, and then forgotten about when the next raid comes out.


    What's more amusing is the amount of people in this topic alone that feel somewhat "ripped off", as if most of them would have had a shot in getting the achievement in the first place. It's a game. A world first is a nice achievement but at the end of the day, do you really want that to be your life's greatest achievement? If you got paid for it (which, admittedly, some of the top-end guilds do) then sure, go ahead, but most people probably don't.

    [e] Oh, and to the people trying to pull this off as "not official" because "Wowprogress doesn't allow it": Wowprogress isn't an official ranking system, therefore the kill count is only "not official" for Wowprogress.

    There is no official status for "world firsts", "official" meaning that it's monitored by Blizzard or supported by Blizzard. Blizzard generally don't deal in world firsts, however. The last time world firsts were mentioned was on the old WoW Armory, and this was specifically for defeating end-bosses like the Lich King or Ragnaros, in this case.
  1. godofslack's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Zetsu727 View Post
    So do we consider Paragon's World 1st kill for Heroic Ragnaros legit when Blizzard had them design the encounter?

    Blizzard is constantly creating these situations and yet, people are faulting the guilds and raids for exploiting. If Blizzard had their s*** together and paid attention to these issues rather than putting in new /roar emotes, guilds and raids wouldn't have to resort to these methods.
    Why do people still think Paragon tested content for Blizzard that wasn't open to everyone else? THAT WAS AN APRIL FOOLS JOKE. Don't believe me? Look at the original post, and then read the dungeon journal. You will realize that it isn't the fight the listed. Probably can't do that so here's the link: http://www.paragon.fi/articles/sneak...naros-firelord there you go.
  1. Rafy's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Chiasmus View Post
    No, but they exploited a paid service to get access before other guilds. It's hardly a fair playing field and certainly shouldn't be news worthy, let alone promoted as a "world first" kill.
    so let's ban everyone who got to do the dailies in 4.2 before the reset, while others couldn't even log on their realms ok?
    because they clearly had an advantage over others...
    God, you people are stupid sometimes...
  1. mmocafc46af0bb's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by godofslack View Post
    This is totally different. The lockout resets could also be countered by having alts. What Stars has done is something that is literally impossible within game mechanics, they ran the instance on HM during the first week. That's SUPPOSED to be impossible, but they exploited a faction change to get around that.
    That ^

    Considering Ensidia got banned for their rogue using his normal rotation on the Lich King then I shudder to think how this will be viewed. THe simple fact is, as the guy above said, accessing heroics in the first week is NOT MEANT TO BE POSSIBLE. If it was, they would just allow you to do it like in ToC. They don't, and I willl be amazed if there are no repercussions for this.
  1. sicness's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Zdrasti View Post
    What their competition thinks of them really doesn't matter. In the realm of public opinion what matters is the publics opinion. And while they managed to get this kill through what can probably be seen as unsportsmanlike conduct, much of the public doesn't really view this as a sport.

    As far as world first is concerned, they fought the actual fight and they didn't do anything underhanded in the encounter itself. And consequently, they killed the boss before anyone else in the world killed the boss. So to many, they have the world first.

    On a side note, many people say the US starting 2 days early is nothing and not a big deal. Well, if 2 days is nothing, surely 5 days can't be all that much either. This is after all one big reason to not respect any of this world first nonsense as its not a fair race to begin with.
    This couldn't be more wrong, no offense.

    When you're competing with other people for something you expect their recognition when you achieve something, not recognition from random people who are completely outside the matter. When a guild gets a world first the other top guilds will acknowledge them getting it. That's what matters. Not the million other people who have no idea of what it takes to get where you're at, or the people who think they have some idea but really don't, or the people who don't care at all. Your competition's respect is what matters when it comes to competing, not respect from random people, and Stars likely lost a lot of it from their competition with this move.

    This is true for anyone who competes with others for anything. Sports, work, anything in the world, even video games.
  1. mmoc1db02b133c's Avatar
    my thoughts about this.... 1st why blizzard should care about world firsts? they get paid to let you play, while you pay and dont exploit they should shut their mouth about this things...............2nd if they kill ragnaros first , which i doubt , just do the maths to calculate the day they would kill him if they started next week to know where they would be..........this high end guilds dramas are one of the best things in wow world 1st races
  1. Snakebonzai!'s Avatar
    I can't see what's fun in doing a world first without competition. (And don't tell me there was competition.The only guild who had their raid reset was Stars.)
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