DREAM Paragon 10-Man Ragnaros Kill, Cenarion Hatchling Pet, Blue Posts, Artworks

DREAM Paragon kills Heroic Ragnaros in 10-Man
Since DREAM Paragon still holds the only recorded kill of Ragnaros in heroic mode, it is probably worth reporting that they also killed the 10-Man version as well. Congratulations to them, see their statement below!

After a very deserving break from a tight raiding schedule that we kept for the past few weeks, we went back in to the Firelands. The goal was pretty simple: Check out the fights on 10-man heroic to gauge their relative difficulty compared to 25-mans. There's been so much discussion on various community sites about this topic, saying that 10-mans are "overtuned" and near unkillable and whatnot. Others saying it's the other way around.

After a quick clear of the filler bosses yesterday, we decided to go all out on Ragnaros today. We begun importing our 25-man tactics and had multiple very silly wipes. Once we realized we could just ditch the overly complicated tactics, we made several P4 wipes. Soon afterwards we were able to slay him and get the world first 10-man Ragnaros Heroic kill as well.

All in all, Ragnaros on the 10-man Heroic mode took 32 wipes in total with everything (such as multiple disconnects) included.



Adopt a Pet and Support Japan Earthquake Relief by July 31
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Until July 31, when you purchase the latest World of Warcraft companion up for adoption in the online Pet Store, we’re donating 100% of the $10 USD adoption fee to the American Red Cross's Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami relief efforts.

This is a great time to tame the wild and noble Cenarion Hatchling! This little critter is the twin of the rare Hippogryph Hatchling pet players could randomly encounter in the first World of Warcraft Trading Card Game set, Heroes of Azeroth -- and he's emerged from the forests to lend a helping talon to some friends in need. This support will enable the Red Cross to provide shelter, food, emotional support, and other assistance to victims of this disaster.

To learn more, please visit the Pet Store FAQ.

The American Red Cross name and emblem are used with its permission, which in no way constitutes an endorsement, express or implied, of any product, service, company, opinion, or political position. For more information about the American Red Cross, visit http://www.redcross.org.



Thrall: Twilight of the Aspects -- Excerpt Two
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Written by New York Times bestselling author Christie Golden, the new novel Thrall: Twilight of the Aspects is now on store shelves. We’re pleased to present a series of three excerpts from the novel for your reading enjoyment.

Read the second excerpt below.



Blue Posts
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Druid (Forums / Talent Calculator / Skills/Talents)
Feral performance in PvE
That said, we're happy with Feral performance in PvE overall. It we were to nerf Predatory Swiftness, it'd have a minor impact on PvE. Unheeded Warning is both a PvE and PvP problem. The particular mechanics of the trinket keep it disproportionately powerful for Feral druids. Nerfing Berserk would have PvE ramifications, but we'll take steps overall to make sure your dps doesn’t drop in PvE. We do everything we can to ensure we're considering all aspects of gameplay when approaching class balance. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Feral stealth isn't superior to Rogue's
Given that they are exactly the same mechanically, this shouldn't be the case. This has been a particularly pervasive myth that I'd like to lay to rest. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

The fact that this shouldn't be the case, doesn't mean it isn't. Also, saying its a myth, or believing it must be, does not make it so.
You're correct. Merely saying something isn't so, doesn't mean a thing.

Knowing that they're the same ability used by different classes, and knowing that this exact issue has been tested, repeatedly, in response to claims otherwise, does. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Feral Instinct
This is correct, choosing the Feral spec and gaining Feral Instinct merely brings Feral spec Stealth into line with Rogue baseline stealth (whose talents have been rolled into the ability). (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Blizzard Art Gallery Update
The World of Warcraft: Burning Crusade Art gallery has been updated with three pieces representing the Warcraft universe.





This article was originally published in forum thread: Paragon 10-Man Ragnaros Kill, Cenarion Hatchling Pet, Blue Posts, Artworks started by Boubouille View original post
Published on 2011-07-23 05:16 AM
271 Comments
Comments 268 Comments
  1. Vook's Avatar
    Problem, 10-man raiding guilds?

    But yeah, wonderful, this will shut up all the whiners QQing that 10man is harder than 25man. I mean, I don't read about this stuff and I know from another guild on my server that Baelroc 10H is a joke. They apparently wiped for 2 hours on it before downing it.
  1. Desdonde's Avatar
    Well a paragon raider in the other thread said this:

    Which felt more challenging? 25-man by about a mile and then some. Really, the 10-man heroic bosses just rolled over and gave loot. Ragnaros was a tiny bit challenging, but that was because we tried approaching it in an overly complicated manner (ie., tried to carry over our 25-man tactics).

    There's really no argument even to be made that 10's are at all harder or "overtuned." They're easier for a multitude of reasons. And that's not a bad thing, considering some of the limitations
    Take from that what you will I suppose ....
  1. Finear's Avatar
    grats Paragon

    and
    please gief more artworks from burning crusade intro !
  1. SpartaKick's Avatar
    This doesn't really prove or disprove anything concerning the difficulty of 10 man compared to 25 man raids. Either raid size will have its advantages and disadvantages. For example, Ragnaros may be easier in 10 man because there is less chaos in p3 due to the smaller amount of meteors (assuming your DPS is pulling appropriate numbers), and more difficult in 25 man because of the added chaos. On the other hand, Majordomo Staghelm may be more difficult on 10 man because of the high raid damage output, whereas 25 mans may have a slight advantage due to being able to utilize many raid-wide damage reduction cooldowns. Each has their own benefits, each has their own downfall.
  1. Iceleet's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Azidonis View Post
    Right, and they didn't know the fight after 32 wipes on 25 man? Surely they knew it after 100, 200, 300, 400, 500...

    There are more variables in 25 man, and thus more things can go wrong.

    .... You totally missed my point.
    To clarify what my point is, it's how they already know what to do from those 25 wipes that made the fight far easier for them in 10 man, since they obviously know what to do. The fight is still hard thus the wipes. Tactics make every fight easier.
  1. Jurwi's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathcries View Post



    With three Brez, three ankhs and alot of lawlz. I still say they're about the same I suppose, but who am I to argue I've done both.
    You've cleared both 10 and 25man hc raggy? Uh... no you're not.
  1. mmoc0fd79c8fc0's Avatar
    bullshit they killed him on 25 they know how to do it... killing it on 10man now with only 32 wipes means nothing.
  1. matters's Avatar
    Congratulations to Paragon for downing Rag on both difficulties!
  1. Forgottenone's Avatar
    I am happy for Paragon but I was hoping that another guild got world 2nd for killing Rag. That way Paragon would release their video >.< I enjoy watching their vids (favourite was heroic LK).
  1. mmoc0fd79c8fc0's Avatar
    seriously... if paragon wanna prove anything they should create new Chars and play ONLY 10man with it. Yes it makes a huge difference if you get 2 or 5 Items
  1. kynd's Avatar
    I think I'll take the word of the best guild in the world over anyone else when it comes to difficulty.
  1. Zka's Avatar
    Fuck this 10 vs 25 debate already. 25m raiders going back to 10m after they have it on farm and post "loool 10m is soo easy". Fuck you, really.
  1. traen's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceleet View Post
    .... You totally missed my point.
    To clarify what my point is, it's how they already know what to do from those 25 wipes that made the fight far easier for them in 10 man, since they obviously know what to do. The fight is still hard thus the wipes. Tactics make every fight easier.

    Read this.

    We begun importing our 25-man tactics and had multiple very silly wipes. Once we realized we could just ditch the overly complicated tactics, we made several P4 wipes.
    It clearly says that they used much more complicated tactics in 25man.

    I dont know how stupid people should be to still insist that 10man is in any way harder.

    All players who play in 25man and then actually kill 10man bosses say that 10man is easier.
    Players who say that 10man is harder raid in 10man and never killed anything harder than Shennox 25man heroic.

    Just stop whining and listen to people who experienced BOTH heroic difficulties. At least the ONLY guild in the world that managed to clear all the bosses in all difficulties.
  1. mmoc7f4e36f1b8's Avatar
    This does not prove or disprove anything about 10 man being harder or not harder than 25 man.
    Consider the gear they started the 10 man with, consider the fact they already killed stuff on 25 man.
    Killing something once, can be difficult, but killing somthing twice, is considered easy.

    Im actually sad Paragon tries to use themselves as the benchmark for whats hard or not in the 10vs25 man battle.
    Atleast this time checking rankings, it seems that 10 man and 25 man are closer together, but well.
  1. kynd's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Weedow View Post
    This does not prove or disprove anything about 10 man being harder or not harder than 25 man.
    Consider the gear they started the 10 man with, consider the fact they already killed stuff on 25 man.
    Killing something once, can be difficult, but killing somthing twice, is considered easy.

    Im actually sad Paragon tries to use themselves as the benchmark for whats hard or not in the 10vs25 man battle.
    Atleast this time checking rankings, it seems that 10 man and 25 man are closer together, but well.
    Seriously, what does the best guild in the world know about measuring difficulty?!
  1. mmoc006fb91b8d's Avatar
    They said that 25kill was a "luck kill" everything was perfect. Now they say that was realy easy after few changes that were need on 25m but only complicate the fight on 10m point.Even if they start the race doing only 10m lets face it they did not need 500wipes. Because 10 ppl do less mistakes and is also easier to see who or what fail.
  1. KCee's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by traen View Post
    Players who say that 10man is harder raid in 10man and never killed anything harder than Shennox 25man heroic.

    Just stop whining and listen to people who experienced BOTH heroic difficulties. At least the ONLY guild in the world that managed to clear all the bosses in all difficulties.
    They simply cannot compare the two sized raids equally simply because 1) They already have experience killing Rag. and 2) The gear difference.

    In a 10man raid, the players wouldnt have nearly the amount of gear that those 10 do.
    And anyone can tell you, once you down a boss the first time, repeating it again is much much easier.

    In T11 is was _proven_ that many of the 10 encounters were tuned to high initially for 10mans because they used 25man-sized damage/healthpools/mechanics/etc.

    I'm not saying in T12 that 25mans may or maynot be harder. I'm just saying, in the end, unless everything is equal, you should consider comments like that, to be some what biased. And the comments by DREAM Paragon are biased (refer to my very first sentence).
  1. Iceleet's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by traen View Post
    Read this.



    It clearly says that they used much more complicated tactics in 25man.

    I dont know how stupid people should be to still insist that 10man is in any way harder.

    All players who play in 25man and than actually kill 10man bosses say that 10man is easier.
    Players who say that 10man is harder raid in 10man and never killed anything harder than Shennox 25man heroic.

    Just stop whining and listen to people who experienced BOTH heroic difficulties. At least the ONLY guild in the world that managed to clear all the bosses in all difficulties.
    Harder to manage =/= Harder tactic.
    The only reason people say 10 man is easier is due to management being far more simple.

    25 man means you need good players to do any progress and you most likely carry a lot of bad players, but in 10 man, it's easier to find 10 people that actually have brains and know what to do, now the tactics are more simple since you don't need to assign many different groups to different things.
  1. mmoc9aa38bccdb's Avatar
    Soo much QQ about ferals. Even my restodruid is enjoying the tears
  1. Frostinferno's Avatar
    Not only are they coming into the 10man version with much better gear than a strict 10man guild would have, but on top of that they built a comp specifically for the encounter which gave them a huge advantage that no 10man guild would ever get. Pretty inaccurate way of gauging difficulty.
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