MMO-Champion - Diablo 3 Auction House Announced - Spend and Earn Real Life Money!
Today is a Diablo 3 special news posts for obvious reasons (see the news below). For a complete coverage of the Diablo 3 Press Tour and more information on the upcoming beta, check out Diablofans.com


Diablo 3 Auction House Announced - Spend and Earn Real Life Money!
The Diablo 3 Auction House was announced during last week's press tour and I'm sure that news will be very interesting for most of the readers of this site, because most of us wonder if it will have any effect on the evolution of WoW in the long run.


Diablo 3's Auction House will feature two currencies, the first one will be in-game gold and the 2nd one will be real life money. Yep, you read it right, Diablo 3 will let you buy items with either gold or real life money! It's also worth noting that you will also be able to sell loot for money, and transfer that money outside the game. I guess gold farming just got interesting.

See the screenshots and official FAQ below for more information.


Auction House Bidding - Dollars

Auction House Bidding - Gold

Auction Log - Gold

Auction House Search - Dollars

Auction House Sell - Dollars

Auction House Sell - Gold
 
Auction House Selling - Dollars
 


Diablo 3 Auction House - Overview
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
We’re introducing a powerful auction house system that will provide a safe, fun, and easy-to-use way for players to buy and sell the loot they obtain in the game. Items can be sold and purchased using real-world money or in-game gold.

An Easier Way To Trade
Sure, slaying monsters, demons, and cultists is a surefire way to obtain a ton of random new loot in Diablo III, but with the new auction house feature, it’ll be easier than ever to gear up your character with the exact items you’re looking for. You can also post the items you don’t need for players who are desperately searching for what you’ve got!

Don’t Need It? Put It Up For Auction!
Nearly everything found in the game, including gold, can be exchanged with other players directly or through the auction house system. So say you’re a witch doctor and you’ve just found an incredibly rare, incredibly powerful axe that only barbarians can use. In the previous Diablo games your best option might have been to sell the axe to an in-game vendor, but in Diablo III, you now have the ability to list that axe in the auction house for your fellow barbarian players to bid on. And you know another player will probably appreciate the true value of that axe more than some heartless vendor who’ll likely just melt it down for scrap….

Amazing Search Functionality
The auction house’s "smart search" functionality can automatically sort items in the auction house based on which upgrades would be most beneficial to your character. Also, searching for the best gear for multiple characters on the same Battle.net account can be done all from the same interface without having to log out.

The Choice Is Yours
Use of either the real-money or gold-based auction house is completely optional -- that decision can be made on a per-item basis, and both versions of the auction house are functionally the same. In addition, players have the option to simply sell the items they obtain to in-game vendors for gold. They can also trade items to other players through a direct character-to-character trading system in the game in exchange for gold, other items, or just an overwhelming sense of goodwill.

Players Only
Blizzard does not plan to post items for sale in the auction house. The driving purpose of the auction house is to provide players with a fun additional in-game option for what they do with the items they obtain in the game. Items sold in the auction house will be posted by players and purchased by players.

Safe and Sanctified
The real-money auction house provides players with an easy-to-use, Blizzard-sanctioned way to collect money for items they obtain while playing Diablo III. It also helps protect players from the scams and theft often associated with questionable third-party sites by providing a secure, completely in-game method for purchasing and obtaining the items they want for their characters.

Faster Than A Seven-Sided Strike
Sellers can post items for auction from any of the Diablo III characters on their Battle.net account, or from their shared stash (extra inventory space accessible with any of the characters on their account), without logging out. And after a buyer has won an auction, the item will become immediately available to be equipped and put to good use in the ongoing struggle against the forces of the Burning Hells.

Diablo 3 Auction House - FAQ
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
What is the Diablo III auction house system?
Acquiring epic new gear for your characters has always been a big part of the Diablo experience. Because of this, players have found a number of different ways to trade and otherwise obtain items both within and outside of the game. Many of these methods were inconvenient and either tedious (for example, repeatedly advertising for a desired trade in Battle.net chat channels and waiting for responses) or unsafe (e.g., giving credit card information to third-party trading sites). With Diablo III, we’re introducing a powerful auction house system that will provide a safe, fun, and easy-to-use way for players to buy and sell the loot they find in the game, such as weapons, armor, and runestones. Two different versions of the auction house will be available in Diablo III: one based on in-game gold, which players acquire through their adventures, and one based on real-world currency.

What’s the difference between the gold-based auction house and the currency-based auction house?
The gold-based auction house uses in-game gold for purchases and sales. With the currency-based auction house, players will be able to conduct these transactions using actual currency from an authorized payment method or from funds that have been added to their Battle.net account. Players can choose to participate in whichever version of the auction house they prefer, on a per-transaction basis.

How does the auction house system work?
Players can open the auction house interface from anywhere in the game to make purchases or list items for sale. Items can be sold from the shared stash (storage shared among all the characters on your Battle.net account) or from any individual character’s inventory. When posting the item, the seller picks whether it will be sold in the gold-based auction house or the currency-based auction house. The item is then held by the auction house system until the listing expires or a purchase is made. Items that are not sold are returned to the seller’s shared stash, and items that are sold are delivered to the winning bidder’s shared stash. In either case, the auction house system will deduct a nominal fixed transaction fee from the seller, the amount of which is determined by whether or not the item was sold (see below). For the currency-based auction house, players will have a few different options for how to pay for item purchases and receive funds for item sales, as discussed elsewhere in this FAQ. There may be differences in how this system will work in different regions of the world. We’ll provide further details at a later date.

How is the transaction fee determined?
A nominal fixed transaction fee will be deducted from the seller for each item listed in the auction house. This fee consists of a fixed charge to list the item, which is assessed whether or not the item is successfully sold, and an additional fixed charge that is assessed only if the item is sold. Because the listing portion of the fee is charged even if the item doesn’t sell, it will be in the seller’s interest to list items he or she believes other players will be interested in, and to do so at a competitive price. Specific details related to the transaction fee for the currency-based auction house will vary by region and will be announced at a later date.

Please note that we plan to waive the listing portion of the fee for a limited number of transactions per account. In other words, for these transactions, the seller will only pay a transaction fee if the item is successfully sold, and that fee will not include the listing charge. We’ll have further details on this as well at a later date.

Why are you creating a currency-based version of the auction house?
Our goal with all of our games is to ensure players have a highly enjoyable, rewarding, and secure experience. Acquiring items has always been an important part of the Diablo series, but the previous games have not had a robust, centralized system for facilitating trades, and as a result players have turned to inconvenient and potentially unsafe alternatives, such as third-party real-money-trading organizations. Many of the transactions between players and these organizations led to a poor player experience and countless customer-service issues involving scams and item/account theft, to name a few. To that end, we wanted to create a convenient, powerful, and fully integrated tool to meet the demand of players who wished to purchase or sell items for real-world currency, and who would likely have turned to a less-secure third-party service for this convenience.

How will the currency-based auction house work?
Players will be able to make purchases in the currency-based auction house using a registered form of payment attached to their Battle.net account. As with other popular online-purchase services, players will also have the option to charge up their Battle.net account with a balance of funds that can be drawn from for purchases of any digital product available through Battle.net -- this includes not only auction house items but also things like World of Warcraft subscription time and paid services, to name a few examples. On the flipside, when players sell an item in the currency-based auction house, the proceeds of the sale are deposited into their Battle.net account and can then be used as described above. Note that this process might be different for certain regions; we’ll provide further region-specific details as we get closer to launch.

Can players choose to get cash from currency-based auction house sales, instead of having the proceeds deposited into their Battle.net account?
Yes, as an advanced feature, players will have the option of attaching an account with an approved third-party payment service to their Battle.net account. Once this has been completed, proceeds from the sale of items in the currency-based auction house can be deposited into their third-party payment service account. “Cashing out” would then be handled through the third-party payment service. Note that this process will be subject to applicable fees charged by Blizzard and the third-party payment service. Also, any proceeds from the sale of items in the currency-based auction house that have been deposited into the Battle.net account will not be transferrable to the third-party payment service account. Not all regions will support this advanced feature at launch. Region-specific details, as well as details regarding which third-party payment services will be supported and the fee that Blizzard will charge for the cash-out process, will all be provided at a later date.

Is the currency-based version of the auction house optional?
Yes, the currency-based auction house is available as an option for players who wish to purchase or sell Diablo III items for real money. Players are also able to buy and sell items through the gold-based auction house, and they can trade items with each other as well through direct character-to-character in-game trading.

Why would I want to pay real money to buy or sell in-game items?
Acquiring items has always been a core part of the Diablo series' appeal. With the previous Diablo games, many players have shown a great interest in buying, selling, or exchanging items for their characters using real-world currency, turning to potentially unsafe avenues to accomplish this goal. The currency-based version of the auction house provides players with an easy-to-use, Blizzard-sanctioned way to collect money for items obtained while playing Diablo III. In addition, it helps protect players from scams and disreputable third-party sites by providing a secure, in-game method to search for and purchase items posted by other players that are a perfect fit for their character and play style.

The currency-based auction house is completely optional. Players who aren't interested in paying real money for items will still be able to rely on items they acquire through their own adventures, and they'll also be able to trade with friends and use the full-featured gold-based auction house.

Can I play on a server without a currency-based version of the auction house?
We want to provide a secure, fun environment for our players to purchase and sell in-game items using gold or real money and have no plans to divide the community. Players are free to participate in the gold-based auction house or the currency-based auction house, or to opt out of using any of the auction houses at all, progressing through Diablo III using only the items they obtain through their own adventures or direct trade with other players.

Does Blizzard plan to post weapons, armor, and other such items for sale in the currency-based version of the auction house?
The currency-based auction house is a place for players to purchase or sell items they’ve obtained within the game. Blizzard does not plan to post items that affect gameplay, such as gear or character-enhancing runestones, for sale in the auction house.

Will Blizzard sell anything directly through the auction house?
We don't have any plans at this time to post items for sale in the auction house.

Does the currency-based auction house signify a shift in Blizzard’s business and revenue model?
We’ve always tailored our business models to match what we’ve felt would be most appropriate and effective for each game and in each region, and that’s the case with Diablo III as well. The item-based nature of Diablo gameplay has always lent itself to an active trade-based ecosystem, and a significant part of this trade has been conducted through unsecure third-party organizations. This has led to numerous customer-service and game-experience issues that we’ve needed to account for. Our primary goal with the Diablo III auction house system is for it to serve as the foundation for a player-driven economy that’s safe, fun, and accessible for everyone.

What’s Blizzard’s cut?
As with other online auction sites and real-world auction houses, our fee structure will vary by region. However, we plan to collect a nominal fixed transaction fee for each item listed in the auction house. This fee consists of a fixed charge to list the item, which is assessed whether or not the item is successfully sold, and an additional fixed charge that is assessed only if the item is sold. The listing portion of the fee, which helps encourage sensible listing prices and discourage the mass posting of items that are very low quality or would be of little interest to other players, will be waived for a limited number of transactions per account. For players who opt to have the proceeds of their auction house sales go to their third-party payment service account instead of to their Battle.net account, Blizzard will collect a separate “cash-out” fee. Specific details regarding these fees will be announced at a later date.

Why would I even want to use the gold-based auction house?
We recognize that not all players would prefer or have the means to participate in the currency-based auction house, and it was important to us to provide these players with a full-featured alternative.

Can we buy gold from the currency-based auction house?
Players will be able to buy and sell gold through the currency-based auction house at whatever the current market price is, as established by the player community.

If I no longer need an item I bought in the auction house, can I relist it in the auction house?
Yes. Once you've purchased an item you can do anything with it that you could if you had acquired it through your own adventures, whether that be using it yourself, or, after a cool-down period, trading it to another character or relisting it on either the gold-based or currency-based auction house. In fact, you can generally do any combination of these things -- for example, you can purchase an item in the auction house, use it for a while, and then relist it or trade it to another character. Aside from certain quest items, there will be very few (if any) items that will be “soulbound” to your character and therefore untradable. Please note that the duration of the cool-down period mentioned above will be discussed at a later date.


AUCTION HOUSE FUNCTIONALITY

What items can be traded in Diablo III?
Nearly everything that drops on the ground, including gold, can be traded with other players directly or through the auction house system. Aside from certain quest items, there will be very few (if any) items that will be “soulbound” to your character and therefore untradable. We are also planning to allow players to buy and sell characters in the auction house at some point in the future and will have more details to share on that at a later date.

What is "smart searching"?
When players launch the auction house interface, they’ll be able to select any Diablo III character associated with their Battle.net account. The "smart search" feature will assess which item slots have available upgrades and will sort items available in the auction house based on which upgrades would be most beneficial to the character. You can also search for specific stats to match the requirements of a particular character build.

How does bidding work?
Players will be able to place a current bid as well as a maximum bid if they wish to engage in automatic bidding. In addition, they’ll be able to check the status of their bids on the "Currently Winning" page and the "Outbid" page in the auction house interface.

Can I buyout items that I want to purchase immediately?
Yes, the Diablo III auction houses will support a buyout feature as well as standard bids.

How do I pay for items?
For the gold-based auction house, purchases will be made using in-game gold. For the currency-based auction house, players can make purchases using a registered form of payment attached to their Battle.net account. As with other popular online-purchase services, players will also have the option to charge up their Battle.net account with a balance of funds that can be drawn from for purchasing items in the currency-based auction house. Note that this process might be different for certain regions; we’ll provide further region-specific details as we get closer to launch.

How do I receive the items I’ve won?
After winning an auction, the item will be available to pick up through the built-in auction house interface in the Diablo III client. Players will then be able to immediately send that item to their shared stash (storage shared among all the characters on a Battle.net account) or repost the item in the auction house after a cool-down period. The duration of the cool-down period will be discussed at a later date.

How do I sell items?
From the auction house interface, players will be able to select items from their shared stash or from a specific character's inventory. They will then be able to post items for sale by listing a starting bid and buyout price.

How do I cash out from the currency-based auction house?
As an advanced feature, players will have the option of attaching an account with an approved third-party payment service to their Battle.net account. Once this has been completed, proceeds from the sale of items in the currency-based auction house can be deposited into their third-party payment service account. “Cashing out” would then be handled through the third-party payment service. Note that this process will be subject to applicable fees charged by Blizzard and the third-party payment service. Also, any proceeds from the sale of items in the currency-based auction house that have been deposited into the Battle.net account will not be transferrable to the third-party payment service account. Not all regions will support this advanced feature at launch. Region-specific details, as well as details regarding which third-party payment services will be supported and the fee that Blizzard will charge for the cash-out process, will all be provided at a later date.

Will buying or selling items in the auction house reveal my identity?
No. All player transactions in the gold-based and currency-based auction houses will be anonymous, and neither your real name nor your character name will be revealed to other players.

Will there be a mobile or Web-based auction house?
We're always on the lookout for opportunities to enhance the game experience and keep our community connected to our games through the Web or mobile devices. However, we do not have any plans to share along those lines at this time.

When will this be available for testing?
We'll share more information on our auction house testing plans as we get closer to launch.


REGIONAL AUCTION HOUSE DETAILS

Which regions will have currency-based auction house support?
We plan to roll out the currency-based version of the auction house in as many regions as possible with the launch of Diablo III. In regions where the currency-based auction house will not be available, players will still have access to a gold-based auction house. We'll share more details in the future.

Will there be separate auction houses in each region? Will I be allowed to bid on items from players outside my own region?
Due to various factors, including technology, language, and currency, there will be multiple separate auction houses serving different player communities around the world. We’ll share specific details on how the auction houses will work for each region as we get closer to launch.

If I live in Australia/New Zealand/Southeast Asia, what server will I play Diablo III on?
As with StarCraft II, players who purchase the Australia/New Zealand/Southeast Asia version of Diablo III will have their own regional servers, offering lower latency and more action during peak hours. While we encourage players to play on these servers, we recognize that many have longstanding friendships with North American players and would like to continue playing with them. Because of this, we're again giving Australia/New Zealand/ Southeast Asia gamers access to both regions' servers so they can choose where they'd prefer to play.

How does this impact the items I have purchased in the auction house?
Auction house purchases are bound to the servers in the region in which they're bought. Any items acquired on the Australia/New Zealand/Southeast Asia servers, in-game or otherwise, are bound to those servers and are not transferrable to the North American servers (and vice versa). Please keep this in mind when making purchases in the auction house.

What currencies will be available? What currency will items in the auction house be viewed in? Can players purchase items using local credit cards or bank accounts?
Our goal is to make the auction house experience in each region as seamless as possible for players, and we are currently exploring various currency and payment options to help achieve that goal. We’ll provide further details as we get closer to launch.


AUCTION HOUSE GAMEPLAY ISSUES

Will I be able to use third-party mods to track auction prices?
For a variety of gameplay and security reasons, we will not be supporting bots or mods in Diablo III, and they’ll be expressly prohibited by our terms of use for the game.

Can Hardcore-mode characters use the currency-based auction house?
No. Hardcore characters will only have the option to buy and sell items together with other Hardcore characters via a separate "Hardcore-only" gold-based auction house; they will not be able to use the currency-based auction house. Hardcore mode is designed as an optional experience for players who enjoy the sense of constant peril that comes with the possibility of permanent death for a character. All of a Hardcore character’s items are forever lost upon that character’s death, so to avoid the risk of a player spending real money on items that could then be permanently lost when the character dies, we decided restrict the use of the currency-based auction house in Hardcore mode.

If my character dies in Hardcore mode, will I lose the items that I purchased in the "Hardcore-only" gold-based auction house for that character?
Yes. Again, Hardcore-mode characters will only have access to a "Hardcore-only" gold-based auction house, not the currency-based auction house, and will not be able to trade with non-Hardcore characters. Hardcore is an optional mode designed for players who enjoy playing with the risk of permanently losing their character if the character dies, and that includes the items they acquired with that character.

Can I just buy the most powerful items and breeze through the game?
Items will be level-restricted, meaning your character won't be able to use an item until he or she is at the appropriate level for that item.


AUCTION HOUSE CUSTOMER SUPPORT

What happens if a player does not receive a purchased item?
The auction process is automated, but if a player purchases an item and for some reason does not receive it, he or she will be able to contact our customer service team to look into the issue.

What happens if there is a patch and the item I purchased is altered?
It's important for us to ensure that Diablo III remains balanced and fun for years after launch. To that end, it may be necessary to change stats or alter abilities of items from time to time. It’s very important to note that Blizzard will not be providing refunds or making other accommodations if a purchased item is later altered in a patch. Given this, it's up to players to determine whether they're comfortable purchasing items in the currency-based auction house.

Someone bought an item on my account without my permission. Can I get a refund?
Please note that account sharing will be forbidden in Diablo III's Terms of Use. In cases of compromise, our customer service team will look into the situation and determine the appropriate course of action.

I accidentally lost or dropped an item I just purchased -- can I get a refund?
No. After a purchase is made, players will be responsible for what they do with the item.

How will you address bots or cheaters?
We take cheating very seriously, and we've designed Diablo III and Battle.net to include measures to detect and prevent unfair play. In addition, we will have anti-cheating policies in place and will take action to address any issues as they arise.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Diablo 3 Auction House Announced - Spend and Earn Real Life Money! started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 1898 Comments
  1. Haasor's Avatar
    Like it alot. The only thing that concerns me is the 3-way cut that blizzard takes. One for putting it in, one for the selled item und one for sending the cash to, for example, Paypal.
    I might just sell some stuff now and then and leave the cash at my Bnet Account to get the various Addons for SC, WoW and later D3 for free. Sounds good to me
  1. Pancaspe's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Nonfictionless View Post
    Pretty much this. Any serious player will be mostly in Hardcore, I know I will. So in this aspect at least the game won't be tainted by who can afford to pay more real life dollars.
    So naive, Hardcore Players will be the ones spending the most money on items, in the unofficial AHs of the Internet.
  1. Cows For Life's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Pshaw View Post
    My like or dislike for this feature is irrelevant. I never said if I was for or against it at all. I was simply pointing out that what you were saying made no sense what so ever. If you feel it's a "D-bag move" you have a choice to buy the game or not, it's up to you. In the end this feature isn't a dick move to everybody. Just like some people like the RDF. I personally never had an issue getting groups in BC or vanilla WoW and dislike what the RDF has done to the sense of community. I'd also say I'm in the vocal minority with that change. I think the majority of people like it.

    In the end in diablo III I believe the real money AH has zero effect on the game. If you choose not to use it other people using it will have zero effect on you. If you like to earn gear the old fashion way you still have that choice. If you want to buy all you're gear and thereby ruin most of the game that's your choice as well. If you want to spend money rather than gold to buy an item every now and then more power to you. What other people do in a co-op non-competitive game like diablo III is irrelevant to your enjoyment of the game.

    It's like people in WoW getting annoyed at casuals for having access to their elite gear or casuals getting annoyed that raiders have better gear just because they can put in more play time. Nobody is right, everybody is wrong unless you're willing to "shrug your shoulders" and not give a rats ass what other people do and just play the fun game for what it is or don't play it and move on with your life.
    I was talking about the elaborate and tortured rationalization of how this is a great noble gesture done by Activision-Blizzard to protect players when it was clearly unmitigated greed that motivated this. We have several years of proof as they've dropped or eliminated many restrictions in WoW which were meant to "protect" players from abuse of the paid services. Activision-Blizzard certainly isn't beyond going back on their words for a dollar.

    We haven't even talked about the DRM which is even more onerous than SCII.
  1. Skalme's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by ag666 View Post
    There are no absolutes in anything. So your point is moot.
    No. The implication of the post I was responding to is that the authenticator is the solution. It's not. It makes you safer, but it's already been demonstrated that there's a way around it. If there's one, then you can bet lots of hackers will be looking for others, whether it's more sophisticated virus programs or more clever social engineering. The real money system makes the battle.net accounts even more attractive than they were before, and previously stolen WoW accounts had slightly more value than a stolen credit card.

    They do it in WoW. I see no reason why they will not do it in Diablo. Especially when there's a lot more money at stake.
    And how much, in US dollars, does the average WoW player have on their battle.net account that they've just lost?

    What is being restored is only what Blizzard owns, and what is essentially free to them (the only thing they're paying for is the salary of the employee doing the restore).

    They don't (and won't) own the money that players will be putting on the account.

    If someone get their account actioned and closed, then Blizzard should be providing them with that money since Blizzard won't be able to claim that it's non-refundable money spent on Blizzard products and services because that money is specifically there as not having been used for anything (but it is also available to pay for subscription time for WoW, or for use in the Blizzard store).

    If someone gets their account hacked, what liability will Blizzard be assuming for that?
  1. Elim Garak's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Skalme View Post
    No. The implication of the post I was responding to is that the authenticator is the solution. It's not. It makes you safer, but it's already been demonstrated that there's a way around it.
    What part of "your point is moot" don't you understand?
    There's a way around anything. MOOT POINT.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skalme View Post
    And how much, in US dollars, does the average WoW player have on their battle.net account that they've just lost?
    How could I know that? Nevertheless, that's irrelevant

    Quote Originally Posted by Skalme View Post
    What is being restored is only what Blizzard owns, and what is essentially free to them (the only thing they're paying for is the salary of the employee doing the restore).
    If they own it - they have no obligation to restore it, right? Think about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skalme View Post
    They don't (and won't) own the money that players will be putting on the account.
    That makes them a bank. With all the legal strings attached.
  1. Skalme's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by ag666 View Post
    What part of "your point is moot" don't you understand?
    The part where my point actually isn't moot, but you keep saying that it is.

    How could I know that? Nevertheless, that's irrelevant
    I can tell you how much. Right now, it's $0.

    It is relevant because we're discussing what will happen in the future, right now restores don't involve money of any kind.

    If they own it - they have no obligation to restore it, right? Think about it.
    They provide a limited number of restores because they're not stupid. Take your own advice and think about it.

    If a person needs a restore, for whatever reason, and they get one, they're going to be happy with the company and continue providing them with money.
    If a person needs a restore and they're told "too bad, so sad", they're going to more likely to stop paying the company.

    The reason Blizzard only provides a limited number of restores is because after a certain point it passes where the time of their employee is offset by keeping the customer happy. The customer is going to be disappointed, but because they've been helped so many times before they'll probably still continue to pay.

    That makes them a bank. With all the legal strings attached.
    But they haven't stated that anywhere. You're making assumptions.

    They may word the ToS/ToU such that it's a "use at your own risk" type of situation, both to remove their own liability and to get more potential fees for peeps cashing out as they accrue more than what they're willing to risk.
  1. balkeep's Avatar
    Well account is almost impossible to brake without a stupid user behind it... just saying.
  1. Elim Garak's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Skalme View Post
    The part where my point actually isn't moot, but you keep saying that it is.
    Do you know what a moot point is at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skalme View Post
    I can tell you how much. Right now, it's $0.
    Mine has 90$, so it's definitely not $0

    Anyway, as I said - that's irrelevant

    Quote Originally Posted by Skalme View Post
    It is relevant because we're discussing what will happen in the future, right now restores don't involve money of any kind.
    It's irrelevant cause in Diablo3 no money would be involved too, just bnet coins stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skalme View Post
    They provide a limited number of restores because they're not stupid. Take your own advice and think about it.
    I know they are not stupid. You lose respect points for implying I do not know why they do it.
    But we will remember that they are not stupid. that will be important below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skalme View Post
    But they haven't stated that anywhere. You're making assumptions.
    They do not need to. It's obvious - if they take my money and that money are still mine - they act as a bank.
    Quote Originally Posted by Skalme View Post
    They may word the ToS/ToU such that it's a "use at your own risk" type of situation, both to remove their own liability and to get more potential fees for peeps cashing out as they accrue more than what they're willing to risk.
    They are not stupid. People will have a lot of money to their bnet accounts. If they won't feel safe - they will not invest. No invests - no profit for Blizzard. Also they can sue, and if there's something fishy in TOS/TOU - that will be bad publicity for Blizzard - less people investing. Blizzard will HAVE TO protect customer's money from theft thru hackery. And it will be very easy - they can revert any transfer.
  1. Skalme's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by ag666 View Post
    Do you know what a moot point is at all?
    The discussion at hand is entirely about account security, and Blizzard's responsibilities when account security affects your money as well as your games. Since the authenticator has direct bearing on account security (and the safety of the account) it's not moot. The fact that we both agree that the account won't be perfectly safe with an authenticator means we can stop discussing it, not that it's irrelevant.

    Mine has 90$, so it's definitely not $0

    Anyway, as I said - that's irrelevant
    Where on the current battle.net account are you able to put/store money?

    I'm not seeing any options other than the ability to pay for Blizzard goods and services, which is then charged to my credit card. If I return something, or get refunded, the money goes back to my credit card.

    It's irrelevant cause in Diablo3 no money would be involved too, just bnet coins stuff.
    what's a bnet coin? The statements (and FAQ) from Blizzard made no mention of such a thing.

    When dealing with the Diablo 3 cash AH what will be used are actual US dollars. There's no conversion back and forth from real money to fake money. It's real money that Blizzard will be charging you fees on (listing, sales and transfer fees).

    I know they are not stupid. You lose respect points for implying I do not know why they do it.
    Considering you've demonstrated that you don't know (or understand) other things...

    They do not need to.
    Actually, they do need to state it. It needs to be stated explicitly, otherwise people can (and will) make all kinds of assumptions.

    When things are implied, or "obvious", is when lawyers make all their money. That's why contracts and the ToS/ToU are so long and convoluted. They state as much as possible to spell out exactly what they cover (and don't cover) because some people do think differently.

    It's obvious - if they take my money and that money are still mine - they act as a bank.
    I'm not sure you understand what that means. Paypal isn't a bank, and Paypal can (and does) hold funds.

    So, no, Blizzard may not be acting as a bank. In fact, they may be putting the money that they're holding for you into a bank account to earn interest on it to make money for themselves.

    People will have a lot of money to their bnet accounts. If they won't feel safe - they will not invest. No invests - no profit for Blizzard. Also they can sue, and if there's something fishy in TOS/TOU - that will be bad publicity for Blizzard - less people investing. Blizzard will HAVE TO protect customer's money from theft thru hackery. And it will be very easy - they can revert any transfer.
    There's no question that protections need to be in place. What is being asked for is that Blizzard says what protections will be in place, and who will be on the hook for theft and how it will be handled. They don't need to provide the ToS/ToU in advance (although they probably should), a general outline of what the policy will be is sufficient.

    Simply put, some people want to be actually informed, rather than accept the assumptions of a random guy on the internet. Until Blizzard provides the information, all we have is speculation.

    Why are you so upset and defensive that people are asking for information and not just agreeing with your guesswork?
  1. Mastus's Avatar
    I thought at first ag666 was just trolling so I ignored him, but now I am beginning to wonder if he even gets this new system with his reference to "bnet coins". There is real currency being moved around here, cash that you can move to a real account if you so desired, or have it go straight there in the first place. Account security should be a very big concern for everyone. With WOW Blizzard restored your equipment and gold because it is worth literally nothing except maybe 10 minutes of a GM's time. A few lines of code and poof, all your gear and gold is back, with a "Thank you for flying Blizzard Air™ message". In Diablo 3 it will be different because if your account gets hacked and you lose your money its real, are they going to restore it? They can't create it out of thin air, they will have to dip into their wallets to give you that money back. Where do they draw the line, $100? $1000? And how do they prevent themselves from getting scammed if a friend cleans you out and you claim "I got scammed"? In that situation fraud actually has legal repercussions. RMT from player to company and back in online worlds is still a very gray area. With credit cards/identity theft/robery there are already well thought out systems in place to protect you as these have been around for a long time. (Oh and to the comment on renters insurance it does cover everything, do your homework. You state a value for your posessions and pay for the amount of insurance you need.) With Blizzard taking on the role of bank/broker for potentially millions of players what protections will they have in place to prevent fraud?
  1. Elim Garak's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Skalme View Post
    The discussion at hand is entirely about account security, and Blizzard's responsibilities when account security affects your money as well as your games. Since the authenticator has direct bearing on account security (and the safety of the account) it's not moot. The fact that we both agree that the account won't be perfectly safe with an authenticator means we can stop discussing it, not that it's irrelevant.
    So you do not understand what a moot point is or what part of your point is moot...

    I'll break it down for you: since we cannot achieve PERFECT security - makes the problem of "authenticator is not perfect" irrelevant in your argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skalme View Post
    Where on the current battle.net account are you able to put/store money?
    In virtual goods
    Quote Originally Posted by Skalme View Post
    what's a bnet coin? The statements (and FAQ) from Blizzard made no mention of such a thing.
    L2R then:

    How will the currency-based auction house work?
    ...As with other popular online-purchase services, players will also have the option to charge up their Battle.net account with a balance of funds...

    Quote Originally Posted by Skalme View Post
    When dealing with the Diablo 3 cash AH what will be used are actual US dollars. There's no conversion back and forth from real money to fake money. It's real money that Blizzard will be charging you fees on (listing, sales and transfer fees).

    It has nothing to to with putting money into bnet account - it's a direct online purchase of an item

    Quote Originally Posted by Skalme View Post
    I'm not sure you understand what that means. Paypal isn't a bank, and Paypal can (and does) hold funds.
    The jury is still out
    http://news.cnet.com/2100-1017-858264.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Skalme View Post
    So, no, Blizzard may not be acting as a bank. In fact, they may be putting the money that they're holding for you into a bank account to earn interest on it to make money for themselves.
    Dude, banks do that TOO. Only money they don't touch are those you put in your personal safe in their vault. If you put money in your bank account - they do with them whatever they please to earn interest.

    ---------- Post added 2011-08-04 at 11:59 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Mastus View Post
    I thought at first ag666 was just trolling so I ignored him, but now I am beginning to wonder if he even gets this new system with his reference to "bnet coins".
    Read the fucking FAQ more carefully.
  1. Butch's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Olafski View Post

    I don't see why people keep bringing this up... nowhere (as far as I can tell) does it say they will waive the fee for a certain amount of auctions per week/month/year. It only says they'll do that for your first few. Maybe so you can generate some money on your battle.net account to pay the fees for the subsequent auctions with.
    http://forums.battle.net/thread.html...000&pageNo=1#2
  1. Olafski's Avatar
    Thank you. I didn't see it in the original post on mmo-c, didn't read any of the other stuff. This announcement made me want to play D3 (no, not to make money, I just want to see what happens), was going to skip it
  1. Skalme's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by ag666 View Post
    In virtual goods
    Virtual goods are not money. Explain to me how you would withdraw your virtual goods to go spend them on something else.

    The jury is still out
    A link to a news story from 2002.

    Here's a clue, it's been 9 years since then, Paypal still isn't a bank.

    L2R then:
    An excellent suggestion, and one you should apply to yourself. Part of learning to read is understanding what words mean.

    How will the currency-based auction house work?
    ...As with other popular online-purchase services, players will also have the option to charge up their Battle.net account with a balance of funds...
    Yeah, you're just clueless. I'm done.

    You pulled this bnet coin thing out of thin air. Making things up to support your point doesn't work.

    A balance of funds doesn't mean fake money. It's REAL MONEY. Blizzard used the terms real-world currency, actual money, and others repeatedly throughout the FAQ.

    If I put $30 on my battle.net account, then that's an actual $30 of real actual US dollars. It's the same as charging a store credit card, I can only spend it at that store but that doesn't make it not money. A big difference here is that not only can you get the money back, you can use the Blizzard marketplace to buy and sell to make a profit and transfer that profit into a balance on your bank account.

    Read the fucking FAQ more carefully.
    ITYM, Read the FAQ, make stuff up to explain what you don't understand, then get mad at others because they understood what was written.
  1. Elim Garak's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Skalme View Post
    Virtual goods are not money. Explain to me how you would withdraw your virtual goods to go spend them on something else.


    A link to a news story from 2002.

    Here's a clue, it's been 9 years since then, Paypal still isn't a bank.


    An excellent suggestion, and one you should apply to yourself. Part of learning to read is understanding what words mean.


    Yeah, you're just clueless. I'm done.

    You pulled this bnet coin thing out of thin air. Making things up to support your point doesn't work.

    A balance of funds doesn't mean fake money. It's REAL MONEY. Blizzard used the terms real-world currency, actual money, and others repeatedly throughout the FAQ.

    If I put $30 on my battle.net account, then that's an actual $30 of real actual US dollars. It's the same as charging a store credit card, I can only spend it at that store but that doesn't make it not money. A big difference here is that not only can you get the money back, you can use the Blizzard marketplace to buy and sell to make a profit and transfer that profit into a balance on your bank account.


    ITYM, Read the FAQ, make stuff up to explain what you don't understand, then get mad at others because they understood what was written.
    Dude, this is the last response from me to you.

    READ THE FAQ - YOU CAN'T WITHDRAW THE MONEY YOU CHARGED YOUR BNET ACCOUNT WITH (I.E. BNET COINS - AS DUBBED BY ME).
    IT'S THE SAME THING AS: MS POINTS, PSN POINTS, BIOWARE POINTS, FACEBOOK COINS, ETC.

    IF YOU ARE SELLING AN ITEM FOR "BNET COINS" THE MONEY WILL GO TO YOUR BNET ACCOUNT AND YOU CANNOT CASH OUT THEM. THE ONLY MONEY YOU CAN CASH OUT IS THOSE YOU GET BY SELLING ITEMS FOR 3D PARTY CURRENCY (PAYPAL, ETC) OR REAL CURRENCY DIRECTLY TO YOU BANK ACCOUNT OR CREDIT CARD ATTACHED TO BNET ACCOUNT.
  1. Skalme's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by ag666 View Post
    Dude, this is the last response from me to you.
    Please?

    READ THE FAQ - YOU CAN'T WITHDRAW THE MONEY YOU CHARGED YOUR BNET ACCOUNT
    So, you're correct, if I have money on my battle.net account, I can't get that money off. My bad for that portion.

    However, that in no way addresses what happens when a third party has access to your account. Which is what this discussion is about.

    Scenario 1:
    Person A has $100 on their battle.net account. Hacker B gains access. They use that $100 on the account to buy piece_of_junk_00123417, that money is then transferred directly to Hacker B's Third party account (less fees). From the third party account it goes who knows where.

    That's $100 of real money gone because the money was in actual, real life, US Dollars gone to a hacker.

    Scenario 2:
    Person A has a payment method tied to their battle.net account. Hacker B gains access. They use the account to buy piece_of_junk_001466435, piece_of_junk_13471774, piece_of_junk_9245732224564 &ct until you've reached the limit on that payment method. That money is transferred directly to Hacker B's Third party account (less fees).

    At no point are there bnet coins, or any other fake construct, involved. My analogy still stands. It's like charging a store credit card. Sure, the money can only be used at that store, but it's still MONEY.

    The only thing Blizzard has said about the situation is "In cases of compromise, our customer service team will look into the situation and determine the appropriate course of action." What happens when they attempt a charge back to the third party and can't get the money? How much is Blizzard going to be liable for? How likely is Blizzard to say "account security is the user's responsibility" and wash their hands of it?
  1. Vexxed060's Avatar
    Looks like I'm saving myself 60 dollars this winter.
  1. Menedude's Avatar
    You could also just never use real money and even if your account is compromised it won't matter. I for one will install the game, equip my sword and go kill some demons and it'll be awesome fun.
  1. Mordecai88's Avatar
    well looks like i saved 60 bucks cause this game just went straight to hell (pun intended) im not paying 60 bucks for a game so i can have some bitchy lil 12 yr old who jumped on daddys D1ck pay 20 bucks to buy what i just had to play 4 hours of the game 2 get F that nice going blizz u just ruined years of waiting those of us who dont have disposible income are hugely disadvantaged over the whiny kid whose daddy buys him the best gear fuck u blizzard fuck u

    ---------- Post added 2011-08-05 at 08:39 AM ----------

    they really need to implement some kind of way to mark purchased items and shut off their use in private games that way when u win/lose a duel u kno it was skill involved and not some nerdy fucking 11 yr old with his moms card buying maxed out char. once again FUCK U BLIZZ FUCK U
  1. Olafski's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordecai88 View Post
    they really need to implement some kind of way to mark purchased items and shut off their use in private games that way when u win/lose a duel u kno it was skill involved and not some nerdy fucking 11 yr old with his moms card buying maxed out char. once again FUCK U BLIZZ FUCK U
    Skill was only involved if you have the same (or similar) gear. Else it's a matter of luck in who finds the best gear, considering drops aren't divided like they are in WoW (i.e. a boss has 10 items in his loot table so you have a reasonable chance of "farming" the item you want). The guy who buys the gear just spent less time grinding for it... he could still have the same amount of skill, not to mention if he buys gear and you farmed it, you probably have more experience with the game anyway, so what are you worried about? You can't lose right

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