MMO-Champion - Dev Watercooler -- Threat Level Midnight
Dev Watercooler -- Threat Level Midnight
Blizzard is going to make a couple of changes to threat, among other things:

  • Hotfix: The threat generated by classes in their tanking mode has been increased from three times damage done to five times damage done.
  • In an upcoming patch: Vengeance no longer ramps up slowly at the beginning of a fight. Instead, the first melee attack taken generates Vengeance equal to one third of the damage dealt by that attack. As Vengeance updates during the fight, it is always set to at least a third of the damage taken in the last two seconds. It still climbs from that point at the previous rate, still decays at the previous rate, and still cannot exceed the current maximum.

Read the entire blog post for more details and upcoming changes.
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Threat revisited

One of the fun things about working on an MMO is that the game design will evolve over time, and you have the opportunity to make changes to reflect those design shifts. (And yes, we know that it can sometimes evolve too quickly).

Back in December, I wrote a blog post about our vision for how threat should work. Since then, the game and the community have continued to progress and the designers have found ourselves changing our minds about the role of threat. Enough that we’re planning to apply a hotfix this week to change how threat works.

Why have threat?

Threat’s role, just so we’re all on the same page, is to make fights more interesting. Tanks spend a lot of effort staying alive, but they aren’t under immediate threat of death one-hundred percent of the time. Plus, their staying alive is also dependent on their healers and other external cooldowns. We have always been concerned that if threat was not a big part of tanking gameplay that tanks might get bored just waiting around until it was time to use a cooldown. Likewise, if DPS and healers had no risk of being attacked themselves then the sense of danger facing a powerful creature could erode. Furthermore, every character’s toolbox includes some cool survival and utility abilities and the game feels more shallow if those are exclusively used for PvP. It’s fun for a mage to Frost Nova an attacker and Blink away. It’s fun for a hunter to Feign Death. Yes your life would be a lot easier without threat mechanics, but our goal isn’t to make fights as easy as possible. Our job is to make fights fun. Having too much to manage might not be fun, but it’s also not fun to be bored.

That’s been our traditional argument for threat needing to matter. Here is the case against it:

Why not have threat?

Throttling


  • As I said in the previous blog post, it’s not fun to feel throttled. It’s not fun for the Feral druid to stop using special attacks in order to avoid pulling aggro. It’s fun to use Feint at the right time to avoid dying, but it’s not fun for Feint to be part of your rotational cooldown. We want you to spend most of your effort trying to overcome the dragon or elemental, not struggling against your own tank.

Tanks are busy


  • I’d also argue that our encounters aren’t really boring these days. We ask tanks to do a lot -- everything from picking up adds, to moving bosses around, to staying out of fires, to providing interrupts, in addition to the classic tank roles of staying alive and generating threat.

Threat stats aren’t fun


  • We put threat stats (hit and expertise for the most part) on tanking gear, because without those, tanks would be limited to choosing from among mastery, dodge, and parry. (In the current state of itemization, you are rarely choosing more Strength, Agility, Stamina, or armor.) Druids can’t parry, and even for the plate users, there is a tight relationship between dodge and parry, and even mastery for the warrior and paladin. That gets us dangerously close to the old model of stacking a single uber stat (like Stamina or defense), which makes gearing choices too simplistic for tanks. Did something drop? Okay, put it on. (Contrast this to a DPS caster who might want more or less hit or might favor haste over crit, etc.)

    We want threat stats to be interesting, but the reality is that they aren’t. Any decent tank will usually choose survivability stats over threat stats. Back in the day when taunts and interrupts could miss, you could argue hit was marginally useful. But in a world where hit is really just for generating threat, it isn’t very exciting and tanks get understandably emo when we put too much on their gear. (DKs are somewhat of an exception in a good way -- more on that in a sec.) We do see some players try and get excited about threat stats or even proud of their ability to generate threat, but overall we feel like threat stats are a trap, and it’s usually the case that improving your survivability will have a better net impact on your group’s progression.

We don’t need a more complex UI


  • We have threatened for years (see what I did there?) to build in some kind of threat tracking tool into WoW. But is that really good for the game? Do we really need yet another UI element for players to look at instead of looking at the actual game world? We know many raiders in particular use third-party threat mods today, but that has really been borne out of necessity rather than a sense that watching threat is super compelling gameplay. (When we say “super compelling gameplay” you can mentally replace that with “fun.”)

Dungeon Finder


  • I know this bullet will be a point made by players critical of this change, but I would feel remiss in not bringing it up. We want it to be a positive experience when Dungeon Finder matches experienced players with newer players. The skill and gear of the former can help make up for that of the latter. Who better to teach you boss mechanics than players who have done the fights before? Even better, the gear of a veteran tank can make up for the less powerful gear of a beginning healer (which doesn’t necessarily mean a noob -- it could be the alt of a very experienced raider).

    However, this system fails and often spectacularly so when it’s the tank who is the undergeared player. Even if a competent healer can keep the undergeared tank alive, the fully raid-geared DPS spec is going to constantly be on the verge of pulling threat. That’s not an issue of skill. It’s just numbers. It’s also not a problem that is easy to overcome for either the overgeared DPS or the undergeared tank -- it’s just not a lot of fun for anyone.


So now what?

Given all of that, and watching how tanking has unfolded in Cataclysm, we’ve gotten over the concept that threat needs to be a major part of PvE gameplay. We have therefore decided to buff tank threat generation in a hotfix this week to where it’s generally not a major consideration. We expect the community to gradually stop using threat-tracking mods as players realize they don’t need them.

It’s an important distinction that the concept of “aggro” will still exist. If a DPS spec attacks an add the second it shows up, then the creature is going to come at her. However, if a tank gets an attack or two on a target, then the target should stick to the tank. Worrying about who has the creature’s attention should generally only be a concern at the start of a fight or when additional creatures join the battle. Worrying about a warrior or DK (the classes with nearly non-existent threat dumps) creeping up on tank threat after several minutes will almost certainly not be an issue any longer. (And if it is, we’ll have to make further adjustments.)

We like abilities like Misdirect. It’s fun as a hunter to help the tank control targets. We are less enamored of Cower, which is just an ability used often to suppress threat. We like that the mage might have to use Ice Block, Frost Nova, or even Mirror Image to avoid danger. We don’t like the mage having to worry about constantly creeping up on the tank’s threat levels. The notion of aggro (who the target is attacking) is a keeper. The notion of threat races (who is about to pull aggro) is going to be downplayed from here on out.

Upcoming changes

Here are the specific changes you’re likely to see:


  • Hotfix: The threat generated by classes in their tanking mode has been increased from three times damage done to five times damage done.
  • In an upcoming patch: Vengeance no longer ramps up slowly at the beginning of a fight. Instead, the first melee attack taken generates Vengeance equal to one third of the damage dealt by that attack. As Vengeance updates during the fight, it is always set to at least a third of the damage taken in the last two seconds. It still climbs from that point at the previous rate, still decays at the previous rate, and still cannot exceed the current maximum.

Long-term changes

You could argue that once threat is very easy to manage that a warrior tank could just go AFK. In reality, given today’s boss encounters, an AFK warrior would end up standing in the wrong place, missing a tank transition, or otherwise do something or fail to do something that wipes the party or raid.

That said, we ultimately don’t want tanking to be just standing there soaking boss hits and we would like to have more stats on gear that tanks care about. To solve those challenges, we want to shift more tank mitigation to require active management. We’ll still give all the tanks emergency cooldowns like Shield Wall and Survival Instincts. However, we want to move the shorter cooldowns like Shield Block, Holy Shield and Savage Defense so that they work more like Death Strike. Blood DKs have a lot of control over the survivability they get from Death Strike, but as part of that gameplay, they have to actually hit their target. The other three tanks will get similar active defense mechanics. This doesn’t mean everyone needs to use the DK model of self-healing, but they can use the DK model of managing resources to maximize survivability.

Death Strike consumes resources to help the tank survive. We toyed at one point with the paladin Holy Shield being a Holy Power consumer and we think we could do so again. Heck we could make Word of Glory the thing you’re supposed to do with Holy Power, so long as we balanced all tanks around that idea and didn’t feel it infringed too much on the DK mechanic. We could make Shield Block cost rage, and change Protection warrior rage income such that they had to manage rage, the way Fury and Arms warriors now must do. If tanks generated more rage from doing damage and less from taking damage, then hitting a target becomes very important, but for mitigation, not threat management reasons. This is a bigger change than it seems though. We don’t want a model where the Prot warrior ignores Shield Slam, Devastate and Revenge (since threat isn’t a big deal) in order to bank all rage for Shield Block (because survival is). Imagine a rage model where you always had enough rage for your core rotational abilities (they could be cheap or even generate rage), so that you could funnel most of your rage into Shield Block when survival mattered and Heroic Strike when it did not. Redesigning Savage Defense to make it a rage sink is an even bigger change, but we think there is an opportunity there to make the rotation more interesting for druids (and all tanks really). Their rotation would help them achieve the goal that usually matters the most to tanks: living.

This is the kind of design for which we’re really going to need a lot of feedback once it hits. We can implement and verify empirically how much threat a tank generates, but it’s hard for us to replicate the experience of all of the various raiding groups and dungeon parties out there. We invite you to try out the immediate and eventually the long-term changes when they are available and let us know how they feel. Do you miss the threat game? Are you bored when tanking now? Conversely, with the changes, is tanking more fun for you? Does this new implementation of Vengeance feel better? Some systems design calls we can make just by processing numbers, and some are more squishy and involve a lot gut checks and wishy-washy “but how does it FEEL?” language. Messing with this kind of thing is definitely somewhere in the middle.


Greg “Ghostcrawler” Street is the lead systems designer for World of Warcraft, and lead eater at the dinner table.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Dev Watercooler -- Threat Level Midnight started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 302 Comments
  1. Ohly's Avatar
    This is a very welcome change, in my opinion. I have a DK tank alt sitting at 85 who I've more or less given up on partly due to the fact that I can't run 5-mans without losing threat to good-geared DPS players.Also, it will feel a lot more rewarding playing DPS after this change simply because you can actually play to your full potential without having to worry about threat. There's nothing more frustrating than feeling that you can't do as much damage as possible simply because you have to watch your threat.
  1. Seezer's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by jayremy View Post
    Why do I think this change is an Amazing Idea?

    Well for months, maybe treading years now I have been talking about this, so many times in pasts posts; so here is the reasoning:

    -Tanks don't worry about threat, why should they? A stupid simple transparent number that you obligatorily have to keep track off isn't fun. -What is fun for tanks then? Panning to see how the field of play is going for party members, pick up loose adds, focusing more on when to use mitigation spells (they are tanks, their job is to MITIGATE damage) because a great tank will tank minimal damage using his skill, not stats. Also if surviving isn't an issue worry just then about unloading and positioning.

    -Shifting the focus from threat being the challenge of tanking to mitigation being the main challenge seems way more appropriate for a role that is put in place to TAKE LESS damage than other players/roles in the groups. Instead of trying to perfect (sometimes illogical) rotations for threat (blood and thunder for warriors comes to mind), rotations can be made to be about mitigating large portions of damage.


    Ideally with random numbers and assumptions off my head thrown in I would so a skilled and good tank, that knows the best way to mitigate appropriately and skillfully, will probably mitigate 10-25% more damage than a typical tank. I hope for more of an impact than just 10-25% but I think more tweaking to base tank mitigation and all end game content might need to be made to match it unfortunately.
    Let's think about this for a second. "A stupid simple transparent numbeer that you obligatorily have to keep track of isn't fun." Oh yeah? Do you think keeping track of dots is fun? Not really. Does that mean dots should just stay on the target until it's dead? One thing doesn't make something "fun" or not.
  1. Tigerpal's Avatar
    Hilarious how you terrible people are complaining.
  1. Gunslinger's Avatar
    First of all it's nearly unheard in raids for tanks to lose aggro over DPS with threat boosts(MDs) and a wide array of threat dump abilities. Sure it's great that threat is less of an issue now but this is mostly aimed at either tanks that are less geared than the damage dealers and clearly more in the LFD where being a fresh tank hurts. Going in a HC with a tank in more blues than you can name ém and being a heroic lvl geared dpsers or with others of the same level of gear that constantly pull threat and visit the graveyard is never fun. Sure u can slow down, take it easy, go afk but again that's even less fun. So in the end it doesn't affect the raiding community and it just offers a bit of help for (fresh) tanks in LFD. Sounds good.
  1. NatePsychotic's Avatar
    This may increase the population of tanks, I welcome the change in hopes it gathers more tanks for quicker RDF times.
  1. ashblond's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    First of all it's nearly unheard in raids for tanks to lose aggro over DPS with threat boosts(MDs) and a wide array of threat dump abilities. Sure it's great that threat is less of an issue now but this is mostly aimed at either tanks that are less geared than the damage dealers and clearly more in the LFD where being a fresh tank hurts. Going in a HC with a tank in more blues than you can name ém and being a heroic lvl geared dpsers or with others of the same level of gear that constantly pull threat and visit the graveyard is never fun. Sure u can slow down, take it easy, go afk but again that's even less fun. So in the end it doesn't affect the raiding community and it just offers a bit of help for (fresh) tanks in LFD. Sounds good.
    If you read GC's post carefully, you will see the long-term goal is to shift tanks' focus from threat management to survival management.

    This will actually affect raids more than random heroics, since Tanks' survivalbility is not really an issue in random heroics. And all tanks will need to work harder on their cooldowns and ressource management for survival, and have more controls over it, like today's DK tanking style.

    Threat level change is just the 1st step towards this long-term goal.
  1. Yakobro's Avatar
    I read up to this post and just had to comment on some of the things attempted to be used to defend this change...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pauldy View Post
    I think anyone who doesn't understand the role that threat has played is just being to elitist here or mainly raids with the luxury of misdirects. I just had this discussion with someone the other day, that the reason queue times are so high is because tanking right now is so hard. If you join a random dungeon in 359 gear and have a dps sitting there in 370+ gear ripping threat off you and calling you bad for not holding threat.
    My bear tank has ~360ilvl, I'm often asked to tank runs for a decent guild on my server where people are ~375-380 geared because they know I can keep up, hold threat (~35k tps without luck of the draw) with my 353 ZG staff and not do dumbass shit (most of the time ). Threat ATM in NOT impossible with geared dps so long as you all know where you stand.

    (anyone calling bs on the tps can go find out what a full agil geared druid tank can push when actually using more than 1 button/min, also have a less geared dk that I went with up until 4.2 before the druid so it isn't a question of "dps rotation as a tank")

    Quote Originally Posted by Pauldy View Post
    Aside from the abuse you have to worry about pulling the mobs gathering them up and you have 3 dps single targeting 3 different targets that your expected to hold threat on but there are also mechanics you have to deal with. As a warrior you charge only to have the arcane mage pop all cooldowns except mirror images (because it still has a minute left on the cooldown from two pulls ago) and now you play the taunt game as the mage rolls 60k dps and your only capable of maybe 40k tps but now your nerfed even more on threat generation as the mob runs away from you and is out of range of anything but your taunt. I can't tell you how many dungeons I join as a tank already at the last boss because the previous tank just gave up on the group.
    Then that's a tard dps problem, it's as much the dps' responsibility to watch their threat and introducing this change will cause even less hunters/rogues to know wtf their misdirect ability is compared to now.


    I just feel this is so braindead dps can go "MOAR NUMBARS NOWS!!" with even more of both tanks and dps not having a fucking clue wtf most of their abilities do.


    Managing my survival was never an issue with the DK, swapped because DK AoE threat is just plain bursty and uninvolved (30sec cd on the only actually useful ability).
  1. ReaverGX's Avatar
    Tanking never really was hard to begin with. I remember a little hic up when the cata patch hit and TC was (is) a wet noodle that I had to adjust usage (love blood and thunder). +40k shield slam crits w/ T12 2p is going to be so OP for threat.
  1. Prag's Avatar
    I can't wrap my head around the complaints...
    1. The game/tanking is easy. This makes it faceroll.
    A. Actually, content dictates difficulty. If you saw threat management as a challenge you had to "overcome", you're not the quality player you want us all to think you are.

    2. Devs are wasting their time on changes that affect of the population instead of , where changes are really needed.
    A. How did you get such inside information in an industry where techniques behind the design are generally kept under wraps? Oh, you don't know, you're just speculating? Cool.

    3. Fanboi
    A. Idiot-paying-for-a-product-he-doesn't-like-boi.

    Overall, this change helps the intended audience and does nothing to those outside of it. Hell, maybe they'll even be able to squeak a little more survival out of the change, even if it's just an extra GCD or two.

    There's no reason to complain about this. Threat is a minimal factor in ideal situations, and a strong point of frustration in others. Evening it out without impacting either side negatively is what you SHOULD be asking for in design changes.

    ---------- Post added 2011-08-17 at 01:16 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakobo15 View Post
    I read up to this post and just had to comment on some of the things attempted to be used to defend this change...



    My bear tank has ~360ilvl, I'm often asked to tank runs for a decent guild on my server where people are ~375-380 geared because they know I can keep up, hold threat (~35k tps without luck of the draw) with my 353 ZG staff and not do dumbass shit (most of the time ). Threat ATM in NOT impossible with geared dps so long as you all know where you stand.

    (anyone calling bs on the tps can go find out what a full agil geared druid tank can push when actually using more than 1 button/min, also have a less geared dk that I went with up until 4.2 before the druid so it isn't a question of "dps rotation as a tank")



    Then that's a tard dps problem, it's as much the dps' responsibility to watch their threat and introducing this change will cause even less hunters/rogues to know wtf their misdirect ability is compared to now.


    I just feel this is so braindead dps can go "MOAR NUMBARS NOWS!!" with even more of both tanks and dps not having a fucking clue wtf most of their abilities do.


    Managing my survival was never an issue with the DK, swapped because DK AoE threat is just plain bursty and uninvolved (30sec cd on the only actually useful ability).

    In no part of your long, drawn out "HEY LOOK AT ME I KNOW HOW TO PLAY" argument did you pose a single point against the change. The reason is because it won't affect you. So shhhhh.
  1. Darkley's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Calamari View Post
    You are contradicting yourself:





    Prot paladins and warriors have too much passive mitigation, that is why damage mitigation on them is easy, our active mitigation is pretty much limited to using -dmg cooldowns on hard hitting abilities.

    As Jayremy pointed out, the next step after the threat buff is to shift away from automated passive defenses of shield tanks and bears (passive shield block/absorb + avoidance), and into a DK like playstyle where in addition to managing the -%dmg cooldowns, you must also learn to synchronise your active defenses (self heals/absorb shields in case of DKs) with the bosses attacks - instead of running a dps rotation routine 24/7.
    I fail to see how i am contradicting myself, tanking firelands is EASY as hell, managing threat + mitigation via CD is no big issue, im stating the facts, if you cant handle threat + mitigation, stop tanking, you just dont have what it takes, done make threat easier so nobrainers can keep threat while tryine to figure out wheter to hit 1 2 3 or 4.
  1. jayremy's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkley View Post
    I fail to see how i am contradicting myself, tanking firelands is EASY as hell, managing threat + mitigation via CD is no big issue, im stating the facts, if you cant handle threat + mitigation, stop tanking, you just dont have what it takes, done make threat easier so nobrainers can keep threat while tryine to figure out wheter to hit 1 2 3 or 4.
    Because if it is so easy to you then what is this challenge you speak of?

    Also why are you trying to impose a barrier for entry on other tanks if this wont affect you because since it is easy already, it must not be challenging to you, so neither way change or not wont affect you, only others. Why are you for blocking others from benefiting?


    Also this state is likely to be temporary, tanking will never be an "AFK" role with these changes, or maybe not even "easy".

    In fact tanking can be a lot like DPS, something you can perfect and maximize. What does all that extra threat do for you exactly? Nothing.

    What does milking every inch of extra mitigation based on smart use of skills (timing and rotation) do for you? It saves the healing needed for you, your survival (even w/o heals) and allows you to impact your entire raid by allow healing to spare more heals on themselves and DPS players.

    Regardless if it is easy or hard, there is a more meaningful way to progress your skills as a tank on the long term of things.

    Besides my point here, I think to need to read the whole blue post of their intentions, and you will see they already stated against what you are arguing, making it nearly pointless to argue, unless you are flat out going "Blizzard is lying" if you can't trust Blizzard here why would you trust them other times? Or even play the game if its the same devs making it that keep you here.
  1. Calamari's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkley View Post
    I fail to see how i am contradicting myself, tanking firelands is EASY as hell, managing threat + mitigation via CD is no big issue, im stating the facts, if you cant handle threat + mitigation, stop tanking, you just dont have what it takes, done make threat easier so nobrainers can keep threat while tryine to figure out wheter to hit 1 2 3 or 4.
    What is now being taken away in tps buttons needed to push, is later made up for with mitigation buttons to push. This is good, because tps behaves always the same, you land attack, you make threat, mob stays on you. There is little variance to be had to the TPS game either you keep agro or you don't and as you said with firelands vengeance it's a challenge not to keep threat on most fights.

    We've established that currently keeping threat is p1ss easy, it's also been repeatedly said in the blue post and in this thread that this is why they are moving away from trying to make threat a challenge, and instead make staying alive a challenge. This is good.
  1. Demoncrash's Avatar
    I welcome this change. Its a p.i.t.a. in LFD groups when i pull 2-3 mobs in ZG/ZA and have my DPS pick one mob each and focus fire from the outset.
  1. rockdontroll's Avatar
    the blue post talks about green geared tanks in a random hc.. which is irrelevant.. lets talk endgame.The old system of threat was tank gear-limited in terms of a dps pulling aggro away, as a geared tank can hold aggro better in FL.However the old tier raids of BWD etc, the bosses hit for less, meaning less vengeance, meaning less threat, making that FL-geared dps rip aggro easily. The solution? Make tanks choose hit/exp? How about keep the old system, and add an avoidance-based element on top, where avoiding an attack generates significant threat, to the level where dps cannot out-threat after a few dodge/parry. Sure you dont want tanks afk and do 0 dps, but what actual sense if you think about it, is in a tank hitting? Isnt a tank about taking being hit? hit/exp should be a dps and pvp stat!


    and about pvp (rated bgs), I guess it might actually be a buff? someone work it out, but I would think hitting a CC'd target (fear/rep etc) as tank spec will now reward instant Vengeance (read: dps boost), then when the target breaks CC and hit you, you will gain even more. This is as opposed to currently starting with no vengeance on a CC target until they break out.
  1. Calamari's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by ashblond View Post
    Making tanks more engaged with their survival can be very interesting. But on the other hand, what worries me is the class homogenization.

    If they change the pally/warrior/druid tanking model to dk's active CD management model, blizzard has to redesign a lot of abilities to match dk's similar abilities, for balance issue, and inevitably results class homogenization.

    I still prefer each class has their uniqueness and different tanking style. But balance and homogenization is really a dilema.
    It's not just the class homogenization that worries me in this new design philosophy they're working towards. A skill cap for tanks is fine.. but if you start designing boss encounters to require the tank to use a large arsenal of different mitigation cds, then the average unexperienced tank might be overwhelmed by the task of managing his survival by himself. DK tanking does require a fair ammount of practice.. otherwise they can be very squishy.
  1. Scratches's Avatar
    Update(?): Seems the hotfix has just been deployed. Go now; tank, faceroll, and be merry! ¬_¬ (and whine in trade, for some of you..?)
  1. Pavidus's Avatar
    This is outstanding news. Threat generation has never been a proper representation of skill, but merely a pointless gear issue.Putting more weight of surviving in the hands of the player is definitely the right move. Death Knights, for me, have been the most enjoyable tanking class by far because of this. Watching your health bar to decide when to DS for the best benefit is far more engaging than Savage Defense, and really enjoyable.
  1. Wiyld's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by ognomad View Post
    Why do you guys cry so much! Waaaaaaaaaaaa! If you don't like the way blizz is handling the game quit.
    If we all left, then who would be here to carry you?
  1. SilverKnight's Avatar
    The only time threat actually mattered was when playing with idiot players (so pretty much every DPS in LFD) or if you were severely outgeared. I've also heard it was problematic in progression fights, too. So, as a person who does tank, doesn't raid, and uses LFD pretty much exclusively, this will do very little for me. If you blow all your CDs before I get a Swipe off, you should die. (And, in fact, you're STILL going to die, even after this change, because I'm going to stand there and auto-attack while they swarm your dumbass, then I'll go back to tanking for the rest of the non-retards.) If you play like an idiot, you should be punished for it. STOP REWARDING BAD GAMEPLAY.

    Also, don't many DK tanks actively dislike having to use DS at the exclusion if nearly everything else? Having active mitigation is fine and dandy, but when it becomes a, "USE X ABILITY OR GET GIBBED" situation, is that really adding more thought to the process, or just making tanking that much more punishing in a more overt way? I hope Blizzard realizes that for every player they win back to the LFD (the ONLY they're doing this, mark my words) with this change, they're going to lose that many and more when they have this whole "DK-like revamp" of the other tank classes go live. Why? Because DK TANKING SUCKS. And this is coming from somebody who enjoys DK tanking's versatile and 'mobile' nature.
  1. Melodi's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Djouga View Post
    Oh look someone's mad.

    Threat has gone from bad to worse, but Blizzard is still digging yo.
    It was good in TBC.



    Orly? Heroic raids tanks having threat problem? It's more like the average zandalari bads that need that change.
    Threat was hardly doing well in BC. Remember, everyone HAD to have Salvation on them from a pally or else tanks would lose threat and people would die. I wouldn't call that exactly "good." I remember healing back then and being the only resto druid, so I'd get the crappy 5 minute Salv buff from our pallies. If I didn't get it back on me in the middle of the fight when it wore off (I had to make a macro to spam it to get it on me) in fights with adds (sometimes with only single target as well) I'd pull aggro and die. This was with well geared and skilled tanks throughout BC from Magtheridon to Sunwell. It was even worse for dps.

    This change is minimal for those who are already doing their job minus some situations, and majorly helpful to undergeared/skilled tanks.

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