Blue Posts - Class Feedback

Man speaks the truth. In many, want ways.

Originally Posted by k1037

I, and hundreds of others, gave them extensive feedback during the beta.

We told them that leveling was way too fast, that there was relatively little to do at max level. We told them that Holy Power lacked depth and was not a very well-thought system. We told them that the new healing and tanking systems felt too homogenized. We warned them of epic queue times, as even on the freaking beta PTR, queues went from instant to > 45 minutes in less than one month. Every single problem and criticism Cata has faced, they knew about 5-6 months before the game launched. Not a single one took them by surprise.

They CHOSE not to do anything about them. Ghostcrawler even complained that testers weren't being as "helpful" as in years past because we were flooding the beta forums with complaints. Instead of realizing that we were giving negative feedback because Cata was shaping up to be ten flavors of terrible, they accused beta testers of being unhelpful.

NOW they want feedback? Right, all they want is a way to get players excited for the game at Blizzcon by looking at the list of player concerns where, say, the #1 concern for Paladins is that "Holy power lacks depth and just isn't fun," and then tell folks at Blizzcon, "We're planning on giving Holy Power more depth and making it more fun." The crowd goes wild, hearing exactly what they want to, never mind that there were absolutely no specifics given and that this sort of thing usually only translates into something like a new graphic in-game. It's a clever marketing ploy.

I really hope they put it to good use and filter the noobs and trolls

I guess losing all those subs made them worryed.About time blizzard take a look at some feedbacks.

I hope they will <<get over with this minor setback>> and attract once again <<all kind of ppl>> .
So the <<less succefull inc games>> have a proper community

Vergin-Deathwing

Originally Posted by MikeyD

You don't think Blizzard knows why they lost all the subs? LOL you're not the brightest bulb in the lamp store now are ya? They have people being paid to research membership retention, they have a very good idea of why. It's not some deep hidden mystery......Jesus. And yes, I look down upon it, I don't call it sad, I call people like you sad. You are the stereotype of the guy who's in a little too deep and won't admit it, and you'll try to argue your way out of mom's basement every chance you get on the forums. I'll keep laughing, you keep posting. Tell us more about the mysteries that Blizzard doesn't know, Mr. Insightful One.

....Wow ok, first off they don't know why they loss ALL their subs, they can only speculate. They can only assume, cause unlike you they don't have the power of omnipresence. They will never know 100% why ALL of those people left. They can only assume that alot of them got tired of the game, real life came calling, etc. For all we know, those 900k people died off and their families canceled their account (not saying this is the case, but you should know what I am getting at). Do they really know why Bob Johnson in Tampa Bay Florida left WoW...no of course not. They can assume why he left. Seriously the fact I have to say this amazing. So what I said is true, they don't know why, maybe I should have been clearer. Unless you really want to argue that they know each individual reason for all 900k people who left, they don't know. The best they can do speculate using the info they have gathered. I doubt they know why Judy Tsu from New York City left WoW. I doubt that there was a topic on the official forums and all 900k people came on and posted their reason why they left. It is only you apparently who knows 100% why ALL their subs left. I, Blizzard and others on the other hand can only assume and speculate why most left.

LOL Yup, it is really sad that I have to explain this to you. In order to meet friends in real life (I think IRL went above your head.) I have to get OUT of my "basement" as you put it and MEET people. Let explain how a in real life friendship comes about. First typically you meet a person in real life. This is by job, school, bar, etc. To get to these places, you need to go out. The job is not done yet, you still need to TALK to people in these places in order to even think about having some kind of friendship. So you go and start chatting to people face to face in real life to see if they have the potential to be a friend. Hang out with them more in real life and holy crap they become your friend. All this requires me to leave the "basement" and enter the scary outside world. See, again I have in real life friends, so explain to me how I can make in real life friends in a basement I don't leave? If I was really that guy, I wouldn't even be on here or playing WoW as I stated that it was friends in real life that got me into WoW. You're laughing while everyone else is laughing at you. What is sad, is that I the "basement" guy had to explain the concept of how to make a friend in real life cause you failed to read that I had in real life friends. I am blessed to have friends in real life and in game, sadly you probably can't say that as you probably looked at your guild mates as nothing more than their in game avatars instead of people. Your power of omnipresence has failed you once again.

Originally Posted by MikeyD

See I'm not one of those "omg i quitted wowz and nao i hav girlfriend and i go 2 gym every day" types. I had an enjoyable life before I started playing. I then quickly recognized the time sink involved, and opted out. I watched co-workers around me become consumed by a video game, something that some like to call 'a hobby' but I saw very ordinary people suddenly start shifting family vacations to WoW vacations and taking entire weeks off around expansion releases. Sure, not everyone is like this, but in order to really get much out of the game, you do indeed have to spend a ton of time in it. And plenty of people do.

Sure WoW is addicting. But when you look at addictions from a neutral perspective 99% of people are addicted to tons of things like money, attention, affection, sweets, drugs, their partner, their job (leading to burnout), TV, sex etc and I feel our society reserves the term "addiction" mostly for things that prevent you from working your ass off as long as possible without breaking down. But actually there are a lot of much more dangerous addictions to society and individuals than wow.
I'm really not a wow fanboy I actually haven't subscribed for more than a year due to time constraints and only play a few weeks each expansion but I think its still the best videogame so this is still one of my favourite poisons/addictions if I had to choose one.
The few people who aren't addicted in western cultures are mostly masters of meditation.

Originally Posted by k1037

I, and hundreds of others, gave them extensive feedback during the beta.

We told them that leveling was way too fast, that there was relatively little to do at max level. We told them that Holy Power lacked depth and was not a very well-thought system. We told them that the new healing and tanking systems felt too homogenized. We warned them of epic queue times, as even on the freaking beta PTR, queues went from instant to > 45 minutes in less than one month. Every single problem and criticism Cata has faced, they knew about 5-6 months before the game launched. Not a single one took them by surprise.

They CHOSE not to do anything about them. Ghostcrawler even complained that testers weren't being as "helpful" as in years past because we were flooding the beta forums with complaints. Instead of realizing that we were giving negative feedback because Cata was shaping up to be ten flavors of terrible, they accused beta testers of being unhelpful.

NOW they want feedback? Right, all they want is a way to get players excited for the game at Blizzcon by looking at the list of player concerns where, say, the #1 concern for Paladins is that "Holy power lacks depth and just isn't fun," and then tell folks at Blizzcon, "We're planning on giving Holy Power more depth and making it more fun." The crowd goes wild, hearing exactly what they want to, never mind that there were absolutely no specifics given and that this sort of thing usually only translates into something like a new graphic in-game. It's a clever marketing ploy.

This pretty much summarizes what went wrong in Cata. Blizzard was changing the game for one reason and trying to sell players on the idea it really was for another. When players did not buy into that they then decided the players were the problem. The whole expansion reminds me of another game (well there are countless examples), that being AC2. A game which really felt as if it were a monument to the developers, stuffed full of crap that simply was their to boost their egos.

Cata was Blizzards great attempt to fix Arena play. Arena play, and PvP in most cases, had turned into a burst fest. Blizzard incontinently ignores the fact they create this situation over and over again with their gearflation. So to fix it they needed huge health pools to prevent players being taken out in seconds. Big health pools meant that healing had to be changed else no one would die. So they quadrupled the cost of heals versus their output to minimize that impact. They then hamstrung shamans by nuking their totems and then tossed everyone who was used to their healing class a boner by swapping around who could cleanse what.

Blizzard only wanted feedback that agreed with what they were thinking. The last thing they wanted to hear was that changes to tanking or the extreme healer changes were not desired or working. Any feedback of the sort was either ignored, deleted, or met with the threat of ban from forums. Well they got what they deserved, they lost a million subscriptions. Whats more telling and I bet they have numbers, people play far less than they used to. I am quite sure they know the average time per account and how it has dropped.

The guild I started with from way back when easily had forty plus on during prime time. Yeah we had our share of short bus players, but we had good people. We could field a 25 or two 10s and while never tops for the server we weren't pug quality either. Yet within days of catas release we had a problem and in weeks it was an epidemic. People who only loved to heal were dropping like flies. Some of the tanks went either because their friends (who usually were the healers went) or they didn't like how the new instances made them feel ineffective; its not fun when most of your tanking skills are circumvented by cheesy npc abilities or outright ignored (like interrupting a mobs cast only to have it instantly start the same spell again or worse - its immune or its damage is 360 so facing it meaningless). By the middle of January we couldn't get twenty online at a time. Sister guilds and guilds many of use had friends in faces the same issues. Posting about it certainly didn't help.

So I really doubt Blizzard's honesty here. They didn't listen before because they had already decided on what the outcome would be. Likely they already have.

We told them that leveling was way too fast, that there was relatively little to do at max level. We told them that Holy Power lacked depth and was not a very well-thought system. We told them that the new healing and tanking systems felt too homogenized. We warned them of epic queue times, as even on the freaking beta PTR, queues went from instant to > 45 minutes in less than one month. Every single problem and criticism Cata has faced, they knew about 5-6 months before the game launched. Not a single one took them by surprise.

I find it strange that Blizzard aren't that concerned about the state of WoW in general, and are just asking for feedback on the Classes. I would say imho, the general state of the game overall is more important than the state of the classes. This is why I think Blizzard completely won't listen to players or even contemplate addressing the issues with the overall state of the game.

Everytime someone cancels a subscription they have an opportunity to write the reasons why the have quit. Hence Blizzard have a documented reason why people are leaving. The feedback provided is driving some of thier decisions

Excellent. More feedback for them to collect and discard.

Originally Posted by ZEROWASHU

This pretty much summarizes what went wrong in Cata. Blizzard was changing the game for one reason and trying to sell players on the idea it really was for another. When players did not buy into that they then decided the players were the problem. The whole expansion reminds me of another game (well there are countless examples), that being AC2. A game which really felt as if it were a monument to the developers, stuffed full of crap that simply was their to boost their egos.

Cata was Blizzards great attempt to fix Arena play. Arena play, and PvP in most cases, had turned into a burst fest. Blizzard incontinently ignores the fact they create this situation over and over again with their gearflation. So to fix it they needed huge health pools to prevent players being taken out in seconds. Big health pools meant that healing had to be changed else no one would die. So they quadrupled the cost of heals versus their output to minimize that impact. They then hamstrung shamans by nuking their totems and then tossed everyone who was used to their healing class a boner by swapping around who could cleanse what.

Blizzard only wanted feedback that agreed with what they were thinking. The last thing they wanted to hear was that changes to tanking or the extreme healer changes were not desired or working. Any feedback of the sort was either ignored, deleted, or met with the threat of ban from forums. Well they got what they deserved, they lost a million subscriptions. Whats more telling and I bet they have numbers, people play far less than they used to. I am quite sure they know the average time per account and how it has dropped.

The guild I started with from way back when easily had forty plus on during prime time. Yeah we had our share of short bus players, but we had good people. We could field a 25 or two 10s and while never tops for the server we weren't pug quality either. Yet within days of catas release we had a problem and in weeks it was an epidemic. People who only loved to heal were dropping like flies. Some of the tanks went either because their friends (who usually were the healers went) or they didn't like how the new instances made them feel ineffective; its not fun when most of your tanking skills are circumvented by cheesy npc abilities or outright ignored (like interrupting a mobs cast only to have it instantly start the same spell again or worse - its immune or its damage is 360 so facing it meaningless). By the middle of January we couldn't get twenty online at a time. Sister guilds and guilds many of use had friends in faces the same issues. Posting about it certainly didn't help.

So I really doubt Blizzard's honesty here. They didn't listen before because they had already decided on what the outcome would be. Likely they already have.

Very good post, I firmly agree with this, and the post quoted in the first place

Originally Posted by drhovertop

Excellent. More feedback for them to collect and discard.

and this pretty much sums up my thoughts entirely. I mean they ask for feedback on the classes and go on to say this, "Concerns that your current damage, healing or tanking is not competitive. While this kind of feedback is often useful, it also is the kind of thing that can change from patch to patch, and so it isn’t as useful for long term vision changes" So wth are they actually looking for us to say to them? o_0

Originally Posted by k1037

I, and hundreds of others, gave them extensive feedback during the beta.

We told them that leveling was way too fast, that there was relatively little to do at max level. We told them that Holy Power lacked depth and was not a very well-thought system. We told them that the new healing and tanking systems felt too homogenized. We warned them of epic queue times, as even on the freaking beta PTR, queues went from instant to > 45 minutes in less than one month. Every single problem and criticism Cata has faced, they knew about 5-6 months before the game launched. Not a single one took them by surprise.

They CHOSE not to do anything about them. Ghostcrawler even complained that testers weren't being as "helpful" as in years past because we were flooding the beta forums with complaints. Instead of realizing that we were giving negative feedback because Cata was shaping up to be ten flavors of terrible, they accused beta testers of being unhelpful.

NOW they want feedback? Right, all they want is a way to get players excited for the game at Blizzcon by looking at the list of player concerns where, say, the #1 concern for Paladins is that "Holy power lacks depth and just isn't fun," and then tell folks at Blizzcon, "We're planning on giving Holy Power more depth and making it more fun." The crowd goes wild, hearing exactly what they want to, never mind that there were absolutely no specifics given and that this sort of thing usually only translates into something like a new graphic in-game. It's a clever marketing ploy.

THis a thousand times this. Combine this with just about everything GC said to be the complete opposite of what actually happened (instant death mechanics, talent trees give choice (eyeroll) etc etc) It's pretty obvious he was hired for his ability to cut development costs. It worked to a degree but the sub losses have now overtaken "player monetization". You can only suck so much out of your player base before they get disgusted or wise up.

People forget the original developers who started WoW are now middle age people(edit:changed men to people), if you honestly believe they are more interested in "gaming" than they are in increasing their wealth you are woefully naive.

edit: Blizzcon is a perfect example of their greed, at one time they said they would only hold it if they had new content and design to talk about. Then Blizzcon started to make shitloads of money now they hold it every year regardless of whether they have anything to talk about.
Last years was a perfect example, they didn't release one new thing about Cataclysm at Blizzcon that wasn't already known.

---------- Post added 2011-09-13 at 11:12 AM ----------

Originally Posted by peterpan007

Everytime someone cancels a subscription they have an opportunity to write the reasons why the have quit. Hence Blizzard have a documented reason why people are leaving. The feedback provided is driving some of thier decisions

Not anymore, you are now given 5 (I think) bullet points that Blizzard conveniently fills in for you and in my case did not even come close to why I canceled.

Originally Posted by Theendgamelv3

....Wow ok, first off they don't know why they loss ALL their subs, they can only speculate. They can only assume, cause unlike you they don't have the power of omnipresence. They will never know 100% why ALL of those people left. They can only assume that alot of them got tired of the game, real life came calling, etc. For all we know, those 900k people died off and their families canceled their account (not saying this is the case, but you should know what I am getting at). Do they really know why Bob Johnson in Tampa Bay Florida left WoW...no of course not. They can assume why he left. Seriously the fact I have to say this amazing. So what I said is true, they don't know why, maybe I should have been clearer. Unless you really want to argue that they know each individual reason for all 900k people who left, they don't know. The best they can do speculate using the info they have gathered. I doubt they know why Judy Tsu from New York City left WoW. I doubt that there was a topic on the official forums and all 900k people came on and posted their reason why they left. It is only you apparently who knows 100% why ALL their subs left. I, Blizzard and others on the other hand can only assume and speculate why most left.

LOL Yup, it is really sad that I have to explain this to you. In order to meet friends in real life (I think IRL went above your head.) I have to get OUT of my "basement" as you put it and MEET people. Let explain how a in real life friendship comes about. First typically you meet a person in real life. This is by job, school, bar, etc. To get to these places, you need to go out. The job is not done yet, you still need to TALK to people in these places in order to even think about having some kind of friendship. So you go and start chatting to people face to face in real life to see if they have the potential to be a friend. Hang out with them more in real life and holy crap they become your friend. All this requires me to leave the "basement" and enter the scary outside world. See, again I have in real life friends, so explain to me how I can make in real life friends in a basement I don't leave? If I was really that guy, I wouldn't even be on here or playing WoW as I stated that it was friends in real life that got me into WoW. You're laughing while everyone else is laughing at you. What is sad, is that I the "basement" guy had to explain the concept of how to make a friend in real life cause you failed to read that I had in real life friends. I am blessed to have friends in real life and in game, sadly you probably can't say that as you probably looked at your guild mates as nothing more than their in game avatars instead of people. Your power of omnipresence has failed you once again.

Wow I touched a nerve there, was it the fact that your only friends in life are in a video game? Perhaps it's your guild? Awful defensive there with the wall of text about how you make friends.

LOL and you just love that word omnipresence. You should write an entire post using only that word.

People like you are the ones that get laughed at, when you can't be playing WoW for whatever reason, here you are on websites and discussion forums talking about it. Talk about consumed, man.

And then you go on explanation to a total stranger trying to convince them that you have friends "IRL". Sure ya do, man.

Just keep on living out your fantasy here, that you have friends, that you aren't addicted to WoW, and that you're not in your mommy's basement.

Originally Posted by Axxy

I find it strange that Blizzard aren't that concerned about the state of WoW in general, and are just asking for feedback on the Classes. I would say imho, the general state of the game overall is more important than the state of the classes. This is why I think Blizzard completely won't listen to players or even contemplate addressing the issues with the overall state of the game.

Not really. If you aren't enjoying your class then there is no way you are going to enjoy the game, and right now classes in general aren't very enjoyable. They know what they need to do to fix the bulk of the game, they made this game and they made it damn good originally. They can make it good again. I hope anyway.

Originally Posted by MikeyD

People like you are the ones that get laughed at, when you can't be playing WoW for whatever reason, here you are on websites and discussion forums talking about it. Talk about consumed, man.

I think that the "enlightened" people who have quit WoW but still visit these sites and post every day are a bit more consumed, man.

Originally Posted by Freese

I think that the "enlightened" people who have quit WoW but still visit these sites and post every day are a bit more consumed, man.

LOL yeah, reading a couple articles by WoW bloggers is much more consumed than someone who plays WoW 4+ hours a day...and then also spends time talking about it and defending it on message boards. Let's take you, for example, 109 posts, all with fanboyish themes.

Now get off that computer and get to work at Sonic, so that you can get back in time tonight for your Firelands raid.

Originally Posted by MikeyD

LOL yeah, reading a couple articles by WoW bloggers is much more consumed than someone who plays WoW 4+ hours a day...and then also spends time talking about it and defending it on message boards. Let's take you, for example, 109 posts, all with fanboyish themes.

Now get off that computer and get to work at Sonic, so that you can get back in time tonight for your Firelands raid.

I teach Freshman composition at Texas Tech (RED RAIDERS!) and I'm working on my Master's in English literature and I have time to raid heroic firelands (6/7). I'm sure you're just trolling, but I always jump on opportunities to teach people that they have no idea what goes in someone's real life unless they know that person in real life. Not everyone fits into stereotypes. My undergraduate American literature teacher (a person with a Ph D) played WoW. Granted, she wasn't very good, but she still played!

Let Shaman's use two handed weapons and be able to tank. For the love of everything holy let them be able to tank. It can be done, it has been done, we need more tank options.

Originally Posted by Freese

I teach Freshman composition at Texas Tech (RED RAIDERS!) and I'm working on my Master's in English literature and I have time to raid heroic firelands (6/7). I'm sure you're just trolling, but I always jump on opportunities to teach people that they have no idea what goes in someone's real life unless they know that person in real life. Not everyone fits into stereotypes. My undergraduate American literature teacher (a person with a Ph D) played WoW. Granted, she wasn't very good, but she still played!

LOL a Texan, that explains it. The land of steers and....uhh... what was the other one?

Texas Tech instructors wasting time raiding in the World of Warcraft and responding to "trolls". Not shocked at all.

Originally Posted by palladiamors

Not really. If you aren't enjoying your class then there is no way you are going to enjoy the game, and right now classes in general aren't very enjoyable. They know what they need to do to fix the bulk of the game, they made this game and they made it damn good originally. They can make it good again. I hope anyway.

Unless im mistaken, in which case just correct me no need to flame me or something like that lol, The team who created wow and the current team are two different groups of peoples.