Firelands Raid Changes Incoming

Nerfing it already is just a joke; the one thing I liked about Firelands is that it was a challenge, but looks like it's gonna be as pathetic as everything else in this game atm.

Originally Posted by Crashdummy

Maybe you should go to the beggining of the discussion, where i said that today guilds would faceroll everything in MC.

Guilds didnt killed everything fast in that time because reasons that were not figths difficulty (gethering 40 people, farming particular equipments, crafting it, no therycrafting, no third party addons, etc). The fights itself were shit compared to what we have today.

And i do think they should leave heroic mode unnerfed. Normals modes are the ones that should be easier from day 1 to me.

Clearly you need to re-read as well: and the mechanics were much more delveoped than other encounters in the game at that time making it a much harder fight in relativity to other content available

Also saying guilds today would streamroll something is comparing apples to oranges.

Originally Posted by Crashdummy

This is another subject to the "game is too easy and we want challenge" club. Till the day i quitted, nobody pointed me with a gun and forced me to use DBM.

I suspect you'd be hard pressed to find an active raiding guild that didn't require it at this point.

Originally Posted by Emmar

Nerfing it already is just a joke; the one thing I liked about Firelands is that it was a challenge, but looks like it's gonna be as pathetic as everything else in this game atm.

Hey, man... leveling 1-58 in two days of relaxed playing it's pathetic.. it's efficient. Clearly leveling alts will be a better use of time, because I don't already have 7 85s and everything else over 80 multiple times over. Yep. Level more alts. That's the response.

Originally Posted by Milton

This is why we all go tru Call of Dutty on easy mode right? so we can be done with it in 4h and go do something else... right?!

Actually, I do play Call of Duty on easy and the same goes for all of the FPS games. The level just above that is the most I can handle but I usually don't attempt it until I replay the game.

---------- Post added 2011-09-13 at 03:18 PM ----------

Originally Posted by phyx

You are all forgetting Blizzard is not losing players because level of difficulty was set too high. They are losing subs because t11 was pretty much boring and so is t12. Well, for most players. AND the game is 6 years old. Nerfs won't bring any of these players back. It will just ruin the game for active raiders. Especially HC nerfs which weren't applied on t11 content btw.

Wrong, most of the people who have left did so because the difficulty of end game was set too high. This includes the Heroic 5 mans which themselves caused a lot of people to give up before even attempting the initial raids. Normal mode Firelands bosses are too difficult. Bring on the nerfs there. I don't care about heroic mode because I'll never see it just like I never have before.

Originally Posted by Sidney

If the raiding feels the same, why did it take you approximately two and a half months to kill a single boss, while the entire past tier was cleared in-what- 2-3 weeks?

Is it really because he was so much more difficult?

The initial delay was, of course, the artificial gating mechanic of acquiring FR gear. My memory doesn't serve me too well, but a lot of us were optimally geared already a decent amount of time before our kill.

The second piece was pushing buttons at the right times, just as it is today. There were fewer to push, yes, but raw boss output accounted for that. We were running out of steam by the second set of sons. The first set was depleting healer mana much too fast. Remember that there was also limited uptime on the boss since he would despawn.

Unfortunately, this last piece didn't apply to most guilds: You'll notice in the kill video (hi Rhaski!) that there's a good pile of rogues on his ass? Ascent was ridiculously rogue heavy, by complete accident mind you. What fundamentally lended to our kill was having all of them save their vanish for the first set of sons, so that they could swap their armor to full FR and then 'tank' the sons. This basically meant our 'burn' phase was the start of the fight.

IMHO it's not fair to compare encounters today to encounters in the past, ability for ability, simply due to how the game has evolved. Imagine if we had threatmeters on Broodlord in BWL, or to a lesser extent Vael? The encounters would have been trivialized, even then. I recall that there were still respectable guilds stuck on Magmadar, Gehennas or Garr back when we were putting in Rag attempts, just as there may be respectable guilds today who are stuck at [1-6]/7 HM.

Basically what I'm saying is that it's apples to oranges. My personal experience, from going BWL -> (Skipping most of two expansions) -> Modern-day raids, is that it still feels the same.

WoW is shit now and getting shittier. it's gonna die.

One also has to appreciate the logistical nightmare in getting 40 people who couldn't just be whatever class into the same place at the same time for hours on end.One also had to have at least 2 different sets of resist gear per raid, there were no mass summons, there were no repair bots, no mass food/flask/summoning stations. It was a totally different game back then.That was MC, that was BWL, that was AQ40, that was (for about 6 months) old skewl Naxx. After that everything has just been a steady reduction down to the lowest common denominator.Reminiss about the bad old days, don't compare them!

this "game" is a fuckin joke. it is basically a 3d chat with flying mounts.

With the new pacing of content I agree, with this change. Oh well, more free loot will be nice to bring into the new 4.3 raids.

Can all you special snowflakes shut up and go play Battlefield 3 or Guild Wars 2 when it comes out ( the O so hardcore-ish next generation MMO that it's hyped up to be ) and leave us people who have lives and want to have fun play in peace with out your elitistic opionions on how a game should be and shouldnt be ?

Seems to me Blizz acquired a split personality disorder over the years. Week by week, you make decisions that contradict or completely wipe out a change/issue and how you delt with it. Few days back we had the Legendary Drama, official posts stating how the time frame in which one can acquire the piece was underestimated. Aside from the fact, that a spreadsheet posted by one of the players seemed to have "gotten through" to the gods, aside the fact that it was simple math that should've been done before the expansion even came out; the drop rates of the last gathering phase were nerfed on 25men, supposedly to limit the number of staff per guild - seemed fair enough, after all, it's a legendary. Now a week later, yay, lets nerf the content and allow all those semi seriously raiding/social guilds, grab themselves a staff or two cos instead of doing 3-4 bosses every reset, they will now do full clears of FL every week That will surely result in less legendaries, and no "Legendary" 10men pugs going to pewpew Deathwing.

Originally Posted by Zergal

Normal Nerfs :

- ''big bad elitist'' : cool they are nerfing normals, will make alt runs easier and more people will see the content everybody should be happy no?
- ''casual'' : yay i get to see content !

Heroic Nerfs :

-''big bad elitist'' : what the fuck blizzard, everybody can already see content, can't we have our fun?
-''casual'' : y u no want me to see content elitist dickhead
-''big bad elitist'' : its exactly the SAME as normals, just harder, why it matters to you?
-''casual'' : hurr i wanna see content durrr

Is this community for real?

Ok, have you eevr read thread opened after Normal nerfs?

The elistist always cry about it, they just dont want others to see the content.

I still dont think they should nerf heroic content thoughy, but normal should be never hard to begin with.

so lame, my guild is 3/7 hc and i moste of us only log on to raid, we dont want to farm easymode we want to work on hard bosses i know 3/7 isent amazing but we are just raiding 2 x 3 hrs a week, but still we want new bosses not boring easy farm bosses, gonna cost os players again if we have nothing to work on

If I read this right does this mean that Firelands Heroics will be nerfed as much as the t11 Normals are now? That's a tad much imo, I am ok with the nerfs, but that much is a little excessive imo.

So I have been thinking about these nerfs.

If you are qqing about them, guess what? Without them there wouldn't be any prestige in downing them "Pre nerf" because they were never nerfed at all.

And the "one more month" argument won't work. Because if it did, the nerfs would be delayed inevitably because as long as guilds (Hell, even raids) exist, someone, somewhere, will almost have the bosses down "before the nerf". And really, if you raid for the prestige, you are doing it wrong. Raids were never made for waving around your epeen, they were made for people to work together in larger groups for a challenge beyond heroics. Which it will remain to be after the nerfs. Most the qq seems to be from superficial aspects of raiding, like the fame and gear. Play it for the fun of it, if you don't like raiding but do it for the gear, you aren't really playing a game for what it is.

Some people enjoy the competition, but if you play the game just for competition, this isn't exactly the best place, pvp or real life sports are a better place for that, because difficulty is entirely based on opponents and is not fixed, and therefore, cannot be "nerfed". Guilds like paragon happen to enjoy both at the same time, and operate on a similar timeframe to other top world guilds. The race was over long before the nerfs began, a race that will always end before nerfs. So that is also largely irrelevant here.

There should be a special achivements for doing stuff before the nerfbat. We know BLizzard is nerfing the hell out of everthing anyway so it doesn't really matter when. It will be outdated in few months anyway.

WTS Nerfs!!

Blizzard should just implement another difficulty setting called Easy Mode that players can have access to when a new raid tier gets introduced instead of nerfing bosses to the ground for everyone. Some gamers actually prefer difficult boss fights and not loot pinatas.

Originally Posted by CanadianSniper

Blizzard should just implement another difficulty setting called Easy Mode that players can have access to when a new raid tier gets introduced instead of nerfing bosses to the ground for everyone. Some gamers actually prefer difficult boss fights and not loot pinatas.

There is a bit of an issue with this argument. Look at all the qq posts where people at least explained something. About 90% of them are that they couldn't get it down "pre nerf".

And to be honest, this nerf isn't near the magnitude of the icc nerf. 20% reduction is about equal to a 25% increase in stats, guess what, icc was 30%. Just a reference point.