MMO-Champion - Firelands Raid Changes Incoming
Firelands Raid Changes Incoming
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
With the final showdown against Deathwing approaching, we’ve been keeping a close eye on players' progress through the current Firelands raid content. Before patch 4.3 is released, we want groups who are working on Heroic-difficulty content to be able to get as close to Ragnaros as possible, and we want players who are tackling normal progression to be able to experience as many of the encounters as they can. To achieve these goals, we’ll be toning down the difficulty of both normal and Heroic raids through hotfixes in the coming weeks. In general, we plan to reduce health and damage of all raid bosses in both normal and Heroic Firelands by around the same percentage we brought difficulty down for the original Cataclysm raids when Rage of the Firelands (patch 4.2) was released.

We're looking forward to seeing more groups of players face off against the Fire Lord in the weeks ahead. However, before we make these changes, we want to give everyone a final shot at the bosses at their current difficulty level -- so this is a heads up that we’re planning to apply the difficulty hotfixes beginning the week of September 19.

Stay tuned to the Patch 4.2 Hotfixes blog for these and other live updates to the game as they happen.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Firelands Raid Changes Incoming started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 1071 Comments
  1. Tupikagos's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by myhv View Post
    Nice, at least most of hardcore guilds will be able to clear at least 6 HC bosses by the time 4.3 hit. That will reduce the frustration of having to clear firelands every week till the end of the expansion to get more legendaries.
    I'm afraid you're wrong there, most "hardcore" guilds HAS already cleared 6/7... its the scrubs / noobs that will have the chance to clear it now, without a "real" challenge, thats the fail part. change norms for scrubs, leave the heroics for hardcore people. thanks.
  1. darkpower's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    LFG group != high-end raiding guild , which heroic content is aimed at.
    You're making the assumption that everyone is going to be in high-end raiding guilds, and you're also making the assumption that that's what Blizz made HC for.

    1. Blizz DIDN'T! They made it for anyone wanting a greater challenge than normal difficulty, not so Paragon can wave e-peens around constantly.
    2. You're focusing in on a tiny bit of the WoW population and saying that they represent the entire community, and then saying that those not in that tiny fraction are bads and casuals (which the latter doesn't equal bad or nerf-demanding), when the former is also a tiny population.

    Blizz wants the game to be balanced and also progressive. They want it to be obvious that the latest raid is the toughest raid in the game, and to do that, they might have to nerf something in order to proportion things out. That doesn't make all the nerfs they do necessary, but look at it this way: if they nerfed the HC FL because of the progression faction, imagine how challenging the DW raid will be in comparison. Again, I wouldn't want unbalanced, padded, and cheap difficulty, but I would love a challenge, and Blizz is trying to get us to realize that they wanted progression-style raiding from the start, which is not what Cata had.

    And you assuming that Blizz only intended HC for high-end raiding guilds is doing it entirely wrong.
  1. Flamm's Avatar
    The idea of aspiration is an essential part of being human. Aspiration is seeking to improve yourself, and part of that involves displaying the results of your labour for others to admire. In our real world this can usually represents owning a large house, a Rolex watch, a Hugo Boss suit, an Aston Martin car, or perhaps even giving a large charity donation. We all seek admiration for what we've accomplished. Aspiration is what made me play WoW all those hours many years ago. I wanted the best gear, I wanted to kill bosses and I wanted to have the rarest crafting recipes. I wanted these things because this is an MMO - other people play this game. It wasn't the gear I wanted, it wasn't the satisfaction of the kills I wanted... it was the feeling of knowing I had accomplished what others had not. Arguments such "You can make it harder for yourself by not wearing gear" are simply redundant... we don't play this gear for some single-player gratification, we play it because of human competition, and in the understanding that we all play by the same rules. Giving players these accomplishments out of charity will give only short-term gratification. Players see pretty animations, dialogues and abilities, but these things are nothing compared with the accomplishment of knowing that you've experienced something very few other people have. Look at the trend for the market of luxury goods. Brands such as Louis Vuitton and Chanel are so highly regarded because of their exclusivity. Individuals aspire to own these products, not only because they are superbly designed, but also because they symbolise success fame. By giving everyone, peasant and all, access to these products, are you really doing them a favour? All you do is make a valuable brand into a worthless commodity that the truly successful abandon. The artists need to resist the desire to allow anyone to see their work, and make it an experience which gratifies their players' aspirations. Who even appreciates content if requires no effort to defeat? By trying to appease all players' demands, Blizzard has created a game which lacks a feeling of accomplishment. By making accomplishment so common, it becomes worthless. I've always balanced this game around my personal life. In Vanilla, I found this game truly amazing. 40 man raids may have been hard to organise, but they truly felt epic. By changing to 25 people, it may have satisfied many players, and made things easier to organise, but only helped to destroy what made raiding special. By making tier pieces so easy to earn, it might have pleased virtually everyone, but it only made these pieces worthless. Normal and Heroic raids reduce the exclusivity of encounters. Seeing a boss for the first time should be a special moment, and be a reward for days or weeks of wipes on a previous boss. This makes raiding special. But raiding is not special any more. Anyone can see a boss. Anyone can get epic gear. This is why I haven't played in a such a long time. WoW really was an amazing gear, I logged on and it truly felt like I was progressing my character. But progress means nothing when everything I worked for is reset every few months. In Vanilla, this wasn't so bad because even with a new dungeon, it would take a long time for people to acquire gear. Now, gear is cheap and meaningless. Is this narcissistic? No, it's aspiration.
  1. Redblade's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by darkpower View Post
    1. Blizz DIDN'T! They made it for anyone wanting a greater challenge than normal difficulty, not so Paragon can wave e-peens around constantly.
    And now they are removing that very challenge, and also making T11 heroics be above most content, assuming same ish nerf as T11 normal got.
  1. Chidsuey1's Avatar
    There are three particular things that to me, signify when a player has become "good."

    1. The player knows how to use his class and role to its fullest potential
    2. The player has good situational awareness in encounters
    3. The player can coordinate and execute strategies with other players

    It is these things that a player needs to help a guild progess, and take down heroic content. I would not call a casual player "bad," however I would call them at least uninterested in one or multiple of these criterion. They play the game to have fun, and play the game however they choose. This is fine. This is why there is a normal mode, and a heroic mode. If Blizzard wants more casual players to see content, then nerfing the normal mode makes absolute sense. But what makes heroic content, heroic? The absolute need for the three criterion. So what can Blizzard nerf on heroic, to truly make it more accessible for casual players? Lower damage and lower health only allow for more mistakes along the encounter. In the end, the only way to truly nerf heroic content is to remove the added abilities and tactics of bosses, which would entirely defeat the concept of the mode.

    So it seems that nerfing the heroic modes before the next tier of content will only allow guilds who have finished it sooner say that they did it pre-nerf, rather than before the next tier of content. I think nerfing the normal mode is fine, but they should leave heroic mode alone until patch 4.3.
  1. config's Avatar
    For all those that QQ about this .... "ITS A GAME " go outside more . That what most people that over the summer months have been doing . Firelands is a blizzard instance for the Single/ugly/unwanted people that have no aspect to other peoples lifes in the summer time . All hail the nerf and lets embrace the social misfits that spent the summer sat infront of the pc monitor , while all us sun loveing natural people enjoyed the sun . love you all XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

    Infracted.
  1. lkonig's Avatar
    It really cracks me up that people on this forum call players who aren't 6/7 or in hard modes scrubs or noobs. Just like anything else there are better players than others.

    I don't want the nerf and our guild is only 2/7 mostly because many of our raiders quit the game and on our server the larger hardcore guilds are doing ok.

    I think normal should be normal so the average guild can do it but struggle/challenging and the hardcore players who blow through normal do hard mode and it is truly hard as hell. Hard mode will only unlock if you complete normal mode.

    Great post CONFIG
  1. d3sign8t3dDruNk's Avatar
    Why would they nerf heroics? Seriously? Thats the ONLY thing in this game that sets the good players apart from the rest. Seriously? This isn't fair. On my server, were the only horde guild to have killed rags, and it SHOULD STAY THAT WAY, at least til 4.3 comes out. This is rediculously lame. Hell why don't they just make it to where you can buy your damn gear and get it over with. This game is going to shit, and its no one but Blizzard and the whiny casuals faults. Im sure most people raid in WoW for a challenge, im beginning to think fighting the bots and modders on Call of Duty is harder then this game.Its not a challenge when the loot falls out of their heroic ass's.....Nerf the regs so the scrubs can clear, fine, but leave the damn heroics ALONE....Stop screwing over the player base, please.
  1. Ragedaug's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by VanishO2 View Post
    So, after 2 months waiting for my token to drop, to finish my 4pc, instead of undergeared, I'm considered bad player. 2 players in my raid with conection problems for a month are bad players instead of players with conection problems, lol. Raiding only 2 nights, 3hour each or less, improving strats and gear to go beyond 3/7 heroic means bad player that deserves nerfs to HEROIC content.

    Instead of "gripping this fact" by grabbing better gear in 4.3 and auto-nerf the content because of it, they should nerf it months before? Lol, nice.

    I accept a limitation after a full cycle, with the game offering better gear that transform former content in easy content, not by someone else killing it 1st and another "someone else" determining it before ending the cycle.
    I have no idea how you make the logical leap to that conclusion. I said you aren't as good as you think you are. That doesn't equal bad. There are grades between A+ and F. It doesn't have to be either or. If you can't down the content before the nerfs, then you aren't an A+ raider. That doesn't mean you fail. When you look at the T11 numbers and see that still, even with all the 378+ gear out there, still only 2% of raiders (not the whole community, just the raiders) have finished T11. Blizzard is trying to fix that.

    While you are saying "we just want more time" the numbers show that if you don't finish T12 by the time T13 is done, you likely never will. Blizzard is giving you a better chance of doing that. Instead of aiming for your 4pc set, you can set your sights higher and try for all 5.

    ---------- Post added 2011-09-16 at 04:43 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by d3sign8t3dDruNk View Post
    Why would they nerf heroics? Seriously? Thats the ONLY thing in this game that sets the good players apart from the rest. Seriously? This isn't fair. On my server, were the only horde guild to have killed rags, and it SHOULD STAY THAT WAY
    This quote cracked me up and sums up the mentality of the anti-nerf crowd.

    "Content should be made only difficult enough that I can beat it. I should be grouped with all the other guilds that are better then me, but no guild that is less than me should be in our group. Me and everyone better then me are good. Everyone less then me is bad."

    I want to believe that anyone saying this is just antaginizing to flame the thread, however there's just so much of it our there that it's hard to believe that some folks don't actually think like this. Why would it or should it be OK for only 1 guild per server to be able to finish each Tier?
  1. Minti's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    This quote cracked me up and sums up the mentality of the anti-nerf crowd.

    "Content should be made only difficult enough that I can beat it. I should be grouped with all the other guilds that are better then me, but no guild that is less than me should be in our group. Me and everyone better then me are good. Everyone less then me is bad."

    I want to believe that anyone saying this is just antaginizing to flame the thread, however there's just so much of it our there that it's hard to believe that some folks don't actually think like this. Why would it or should it be OK for only 1 guild per server to be able to finish each Tier?
    Why should they nerf content before guilds who actually have a chance of finishing it before the next tier get to? I mean my guild if we don't get H rag by the end of this raid lock out we would have gotten it next, we are sub 20% on phase 4, now the challenge will be lost and all the hard work pretty much for nothing. I have no problem if they nerf heroic content after its current all they want. Blizzard said normals are for casuals and heroics are for hardcores. Sorry if you can only raid 4 hours a weeks, that's what normals are for. Even guilds 2/7 heroic still have a chance to get 6/7 by the time they come out with the next patch, I would understand if they came out with the next patch a week or 2 after these nerfs, but they aren't we haven't even reached ptr.
  1. Athie's Avatar
    Oh, thanks god. I'm really happy with my decision about game quit, just before Zul'Aman patch. Personally I never liked nerfs. I remember to the 30% HP cut on Illidian. We just pushed ourselves until the maintenence time to kill him. We was really close to success on that epic fight. I was soo sad, because they destroyed the feeling what I'm actually playing for. How can an experienced raider forget the feeling when they kills a hard boss after hundreds of wipes. The "cmon... cmon... nuke... nuke... aaaand yeeees! f**in hell! yes!" Yes, more wipes make this more epic. Will those casuals feel this after nerf? Doubt. I really wants belive that Blizz staff's one of the goals was with raids is to bring this epic feeling to us. What you can't forget. Loots, rewards, the achievement you got are all forgettable, but this not. Ok, I can understand players who don't want this, just want loot (or even just finish) the content, but not the normal mode has been made for that? So, by nerfing both normal/heroic, they seems prefer only those who wants quick loots or just see the end-game content. They can just leave heroic to people who aren't in top guild or don't have time to play 5/7 days on a week. Who still want's real challanges and enjoy the "aaah yes!" on boss kills. I don't really got the reason why everyone needs to have to kill (all) heroic bosses. In real life, when I can't do something, just because it needs more experience, skill or whatever, noone will make that thing easier. That is ok, why they do such non-realistic things. Also, don't forget: rewards are important for every player. While they serves casuals out with heroic rewards, they just destroys the meaning of rewards that players got before nerf. Just remember for Amani Bears or any unobtainable things. Lots of players wants show something they did what just few others. That's makes them unique also that is the reward for the lot work. These nerfs just destroying all of it. At least Blizz these nerfes should need make some items unobtainable. Amani Bear is a really good example. Altough I understand Blizz. I know, we are the minority with the request of those "epic kills", but seriously, It's very easy to make us happy... then why we aren't allowed? The solutions are even exists in the past: unobtainable rewards, such as the Amani Bear was, or option to turn the nerf off as in ICC. With the ICC style nerf, a tuneable nerf could help aswell (you can choose the level of nerf). When I look over my wow gametime, I can say BC was the best ever expansion. The class mechanics became mature enough. The content was also mature and epic. Sunwell, Black Temple, and even Eye where we just facerolled by trash on every week. Can't even say any boss there what I didn't enjoyed. The nerfs (except the last big nerf at patch 3.0) was ok, because we still had the feeling what explained above. People actually had to work to enter the raid instance (attunements). They had to make their steps, you wasn't able to skip raids and wasn't able to change greens to epics. Can't belive the players had problems with it until the current style became standard. WOTLK was a big fail in my opinion. Altough there was some very good content, like Ulduar and some part of ICC (like Arthas himself), they completly destroyed the class mechanics (don't want go deeper into this, most of us knows what I mean) and made some content which was not just bad, but destroyed the whole expansion. On the beginning, the revamped Naxxramas destroyed all of my memories about original one (which was really epic. let's say it was classic's Sunwell, or even more).After they saw the request for a decent raid, they spent more time on next one with success. Ulduar was what a raider wanted. But we wasn't able to enjoy it too much, because of the Crusader's Coliseum. That totally useless content destroyed Ulduar's spirit very fast. I had mixed feelings about ICC. But was excited, becuase we have the promises for Cata. The fix of overbuffed class mechanics and decent raids. That was the only reason what kept me in the game. I decided that I'll quit after before the first major content patch of Cata to see those promises. I wasn't disappointed. Tier 11 brought many things back the good old pre-wolk days (not all of course). I was satisfied. Everyone seemed satisfied, we had our bloody heroic raids, casuals had their normal and doable content, while the most questioned new 10/25 system worked fine too in my opinion (I was sceptic too before). Some epic boss fight brought the spirit back (Ascendant Council is the most most memorable for me) My guild disbanded, just before Zul'Aman patch by unrelated reasons. While I wasn't finish the content (unkilled Cho'gal and Synestrasa), the disband helped me to cancel my subscription. Even the Cho'gall nerf seemed ok, I don't had bad feeling by letting him alive (I'm sure the nerf was far enough for success). I could accept that not all guild can kill him. Now Blizz ultimately favors casual gamers over those who actually made the game so popular. Even there was many ideas to make everyone happy. I remember for an idea about "untouched realms" where they don't apply nerfs. Or the classic/bc/wotlk realms where they just don't apply any or all expansion(s). It's hard to make? No. The aproach changed.

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