Raid Finder Coming in Patch 4.3

So, will these bespoke instances also award the raid completion achievements? Would be nice to be able to link proof that we know the raid mechanics when trying to find a regular tier raid pug...

I see all the problems that this could bring, but I don't mind, I love raid leading and I'd like to get some nice gear on my alts who aren't on my main's server

Originally Posted by Firebert

Oh, and also, consider this: Come Tuesday, the bosses will be dropping loot, everyone will be passing on it because they have done the boss earlier in the week, so useful gear will be left on a boss when players can use it.

Or more likely, it is just more rational to queue for LFR just on MON/TUE to greatly increase your chances to get the loot by maximizing the number of people, who autopass.

Originally Posted by Omedon

It is impossible to ninja loot in the dungeon finder, or the raid finder.

Ninja looting involves grabbing loot outside the rules. It is impossible to break the rules of automated NBG. It's completely possible to snap the spirit of certain rulesets over one's knee in the dungeon finder, but if you go in not expecting that spirit to be present (which you should, in my opinion) and just look out for your two specs, expecting that everyone else is, it's a perfectly fair rules set.

Not everyone raids to get offspec gear.

It's not about the rules. It's about people trying to get some gear but there are 10 others rolling for it (while they probably don't need it or are not even going to use it) because they have 2 or 3 specs. It's near impossible to get it. Especially since it's crossrealm so you always have different people in your raid.
At least in a pug you can make your own rules and have reliable leaders so you actually have a chance to get some gear that you really need.

At least it's by the rules, only very frustrating and that will cause problems.

---------- Post added 2011-09-30 at 07:33 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Firebert

Oh, and also, consider this: Come Tuesday, the bosses will be dropping loot, everyone will be passing on it because they have done the boss earlier in the week, so useful gear will be left on a boss when players can use it.

Going to be fun. People doing the same raid 5 times a week. And they expect players to keep playing and paying for their subscriptions since that is not boring at all. At least 'casual' 'new' and 'bad' players can access the game.

whether you receive loot or not, then you will automatically pass on loot that drops during later attempts on that boss during the same week.this makes me not happy. Would prefer it to only lock you out if you GET gear. how many times have we all been in a raid where RNG jacks us and no gear for our spec/ class drops.IF it stays now i will roll need on ANY gear that MIGHT work well for me and greed on it all.

Originally Posted by Torticoli

" Sometimes, Blizzard, I don't even...

My sentiments exactly. :P

You're pretty much a sucker if you use this.

Originally Posted by Antherios

Reasons why this is going to get hard to stand
4> The Average Pug: Really bad players will get in the system, players that stand in fire, players that dont listen to advices, players that wear the wrong kind of armor, that gems old vanilla gems, and doenst enchant their gear. Douches pulling to wipe the raid, people breaking CCs earlier, etc etc. All this will be bread of every day in the LFR tool.

And don't forget, such players die instantly when the boss is pulled and in the end win the roll of a rare item half of the raid is after. It's a well-known fact.

Originally Posted by Firebert

Oh, and also, consider this: Come Tuesday, the bosses will be dropping loot, everyone will be passing on it because they have done the boss earlier in the week, so useful gear will be left on a boss when players can use it.

I don't know if they do, but the system should check whether all of the roles eligible for the loot already received loot from that boss and then re-enable their need-button! I'd feel cheated otherwise..

They say that the penalty is something of a longer duration than the dungeon finder deserter debuff, don't they? So I hope that the raid penalty will persist longer than the actual raid will be, so people think twice before leaving

How loot system needs to work:Blizzard needs to tag all gear with roles it was intended for. All tank gear gets tagged "tank gear", all healer gear gets tagged "healer gear", all dps gear gets tagged "dps gear". Some gear will have more than one tag; a str/stam mast/exp belt would be both tank & dps. I have limited class/roles itemisation knowledge, i never play casters, so can't spell out all the rules, but stuff like "sta/str gear with haste or cit is dps gear, sta/str gear with dodge or parry is tank gear" shouldn't be too hard for Blizzard to set up a rulebook on.Then, when the item drops, only people who are filling that role for the current raid gets to need. Not everyone who can equip it. Tank gear drops, only the tanks get to need. If you're dpsing but would like it for your offspec, you get to greed. If you dont want it at all, you disenchant (or pass if no DE in raid, unless Blizz is willing to just let us DE gear even if RNG doesn't put an enchanter in raid).The general rulebook should be easy to set up, some exceptions need to be added so that e.g. blood dk tanks can need on dps weaponry (only due to Blizzard refusing to create true DK tank weapons; i mean it's not like they're still doing it for warrs & pala's even after equalising 1h tank & dps weapon attack speed right? Oh wait...).Maybe Blizzard can stop putting 100% of their time & effort into catering to the needs of "the casual player" and put 10% of their effort into catering to the needs of people that could & would carry these random raid finder groups, if only they wouldn't get screwed in the ass by Blizzard on every turn.

I dont need it since i have raid groups on my alts but personally i think its terrible idea. And i will be forced to try it to get the LFR achievements ...

I won't use LFR for anything else than making group of 25 guildies and fastcap valors. I feel sorry for any1 who try to be raidleader of this.

kinda lame how it doesnt work with T11 or Firelands atleast

My guild has a pug alt raid fairly often this will be nice to teach them and bring some mains who dont need gear to help as well as not get them locked to content they need to run on normal or heroic. (mostly normal) or we use to try to get our unlucky player they 4 piece. you can join as a raid so if you have a 25 man just bring all 25 to learn the fights before you wipefest on brand new content

Attention: LFR is optional

Originally Posted by Raptoos

I won't use LFR for anything else than making group of 25 guildies and fastcap valors. I feel sorry for any1 who try to be raidleader of this.

If you go in there as an experienced raider it will be so frustrating. PuG's where everyone had the right achievements and gear were already very frustrating for me 90% of the time. Imagine how bad LFR will be.
I don't understand how this will improve the game. Yes, you can raid. Will it be fun? Probably not most of the time.

Games who require a lot of teamwork (25 people is a big group and you need some good coordination unlike many other games) don't really work with tools like this. 5 mans can already be a pain. And when I play other games like Black Ops: Zombies where you only have group with 4 players 99% of the time it doesn't work with random people while you barely need teamwork.

I just can't believe this is a the right direction for a game like this.

---------- Post added 2011-09-30 at 08:21 AM ----------

Originally Posted by peterpan007

Attention: LFR is optional

That doesn't make it any better. And that doesn't mean people can't give their opinions about it.

People want hardmodes to be nerfed to clear it. Attention: Hardmodes are optional.

Originally Posted by Gilian

People want hardmodes to be nerfed to clear it. Attention: Hardmodes are optional.

And should never have been touched.

I can fully understand nerfing normals:

1. It allows a great deal of people that have not experienced successfull fireland raiding to give it a go, see the encounters, have fun with 'm.
2. It allows people that have fallen behind on gear and would struggle to step into the next expansion, to catch up and be fully prepared and able to step into the next expansion.
3. Dedicated raiders dont care about them; there was no prestige or whatnot in having cleared firelands on normal even before nerf.

Nerfing heroics is just shit. No one wants this. They've taken all the prestige and sence of pride heroic raiders had for having achieved a certain progress in heroics. And for what? For nothing.

I'm in a guild, we had cleared some bosses on heroic pre-nerf. There was a sence of... achievement, pride, whenever we first killed a heroic boss. "Yay, progress". Now it's all gone. We progress further and it just feels shit. "Oh look we killed this heroic boss, ah well". Why did Blizzard take this away from dedicated players? I have no idea.

I'm getting real fed up with this shit. I fully support allowing casual players to experience raid content, it just pisses me off Blizzard does it at the cost of what dedicated raiders hold dearest: the pride & satisfaction of achieving progress.

/stoprant

4> The Average Pug: Really bad players will get in the system, players that stand in fire, players that dont listen to advices, players that wear the wrong kind of armor, that gems old vanilla gems, and doenst enchant their gear. Douches pulling to wipe the raid, people breaking CCs earlier, etc etc. All this will be bread of every day in the LFR tool.

Reminds me about this time I saw a 'tank' trying to tank a random cata hc, wearing cloth gear (with intel and spirit on), because it has STAMINA, and tanks NEED STAMINA .. I almost cried it was so hilarious (I did actually try explaining to him for the next 30-40 minutes that he really really shouldnt wear cloth), ofc the vote to kick wasnt working, and thankfully my gf is a great healer and was in the run, the 'tank' ofc insisted that he was amazing, and that wearing cloth because it has stamina was totally correct (it was a warrior btw) .. wish I could watch the LFR that this particular 'tank' joins

Another thing I'm concerned about: If they're starting with T13 level raid but not including T11 or T12, how will those who've never done T11 or T12 content have the gear to succeed, even in T13 ezmode? I know a lot of casuals who have never raided in Cata, who have a lot of 346-353 and maybe a few 359 pieces from JP. If the first raid in LFR is a good 30 levels higher, it's going to be a giant leap to even down the first boss in ezmode T13.

If DPS can need on my tanking loot I'm never gonna queue up with my warrior or druid. If a warlock, mage or non-holy paladin can need on my spirit gear I'm never gonna queue up with my priest.