MMO-Champion - Raid Finder Coming in Patch 4.3
Raid Finder Coming in Patch 4.3
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
We are working hard to introduce an exciting new feature to World of Warcraft in patch 4.3: the Raid Finder system. While it presents unprecedented technical hurdles and may change before it’s released, we wanted to provide you with an early look at what we hope to accomplish, and share some details that we’ve worked out, which will lend some insight as to how the new feature is planned to work.

So what is the Raid Finder? It will be a brand new grouping feature that superficially works much like the Dungeon Finder. Instead of five-player dungeons, the Raid Finder is designed to help players quickly and easily form a pick-up raid for a specially tuned version of the current tier of raid content: the Dragon Soul raid. It’s not intended to replace organized raiding though. You’ll still need friends and guild members to help you conquer the toughest raiding challenges that patch 4.3 has to offer.

As we currently plan to roll out the Raid Finder feature in patch 4.3, level-85 players will be able to use it to access a 25-player version of the Dragon Soul raid dungeon, which will culminate in a glorious battle against Deathwing himself. Dragon Soul will be split into three different difficulties. The Raid Finder provides access to a new tier of difficulty, which in this case has split the raid into two wings, each containing four boss encounters. Meanwhile, raiders will still need to join with friends and guildmates to face the more challenging normal and heroic versions of the raid, since the Raid Finder cannot be used to access those higher difficulty levels. Naturally, because they’re harder to defeat, the normal and heroic version of Dragon Soul will drop more powerful lootalong with prestigious rewards such as achievements, titles, and epic mounts. Rich rewards still await those who face the Raid Finder version, which we hope will introduce the thrills and epic experience of raiding to a broader audience than ever before.

You can access the Raid Finder through the ‘Raid’ button in the menu at the bottom of the default user interface. The Raid Finder should feel familiar to Dungeon Finder users. Just fire it up, select your class role, click the ‘Find Raid’ button, and get ready to face Deathwing’s jaw of doom.

FAQ

Q. Raids aren’t dungeons. Who will keep things organized?

A. A Raid Finder raid will require someone to queue as leader. The Raid Finder leader will have a very limited set of powers and cannot change loot type, nor do they have the ability to arbitrarily kick people from the raid. They do have the ability to mark targets and use /raid warning, and can promote other players to be leads as well. To be most successful, each Raid Finder group should have at least one leader who will explain the fights, assign raid markers, and make the tough calls, like who the main tank and off-tanks are.


Q. How will loot be distributed?

A. Automatic rolls and the Need Before Greed loot rules will apply in Raid Finder raids, just as they do in Dungeon Finder instances. Also, while Dungeon Finder raids aren’t locked, you are only eligible for loot from a boss once per week. This means that if you were present for the defeat of a boss, whether you receive loot or not, then you will automatically pass on loot that drops during later attempts on that boss during the same week.


Q. How will Raid Finder loot differ?

A. Loot acquired through the Raid Finder, including tier set pieces, will be of a lower item level than items acquired from normal or heroic mode versions of the Dragon Soul raid, and its appearance may differ. Also, there are certain items, as well as components for legendary weapons, which will not drop in Raid Finder raids. While individual bosses will not yield Valor Points as they would in other versions of the raid, you can still earn 250 Valor Points for beating the final boss in each wing of the instance.

Tier armor that drops in Raid Finder raids still provides set bonuses, and those bonuses are compatible with the higher item level versions of the armor available in the normal and heroic mode versions of the raid. None of these tier sets will be available for purchase from a vendor via Valor Points.


Q. Will there be an item level requirement to use the Raid Finder?

A. Yes, accessing raids via the Raid Finder will require that participating characters be level 85 and have attained a certain item level, to help ensure that they are prepared for the content they’ll be facing.


Q. Will the Raid Finder be cross-realm?

A. Yes, the Raid Finder will draw players from all realms. As with the Dungeon Finder, it will place some priority on grouping players from the same realm, though not at the cost of increased queue times.


Q. What kind of raid composition will the Raid Finder create?

A. Each Raid Finder raid will include two tanks, six healers, and seventeen damage dealers. As the raid is assembled, the Raid Finder will attempt to balance the group according to armor type, which should help ensure a healthy mix of melee and ranged dps.


Q. Why 25-player only?

A. A 25-player group is actually easier and faster to fill than a smaller group would be, and allows for greater flexibility in raid creation, all of which will help contribute to lower queue times. Also, 25-player raids are less subject to issues with composition or player connectivity.

The Raid Finder version of the Dragon Soul raid will be designed with pick-up raiding in mind. Normal and heroic difficulties will require the greater organization and teamwork found in guild raid groups.


Q. Will I get Call to Arms benefits when using the Raid Finder?

A. We don’t currently plan to apply Call to Arms benefits to the Raid Finder, though that may change in the future.


Q. Will I be locked to a raid I join through the Raid Finder?

A. Since the Raid Finder only offers access exclusively to a specially tuned version of the Dragon Soul raid instance, instance locks will not be enforced for that version. Instance locks will still be enforced for the normal and heroic versions of the raid.


Q. Can I queue with my friends in a party or raid?

A. Yes, you can queue for the Raid Finder individually, in a party, or in a raid. The Raid Finder can be a great tool to help fill those last few slots in a raid.


Q. I’m a dedicated raider with an organized group, what good is the Raid Finder to me?

A. Since instance locks aren’t in play, Raid Finder raids could provide a way for dedicated raiders to gear up alternate characters, fill gaps in their itemization, finish off elusive set bonuses, or just have some fun while preparing to face the normal or heroic version of the raid on the next reset.


Q. Why aren’t other raids available?

A. The Raid Finder is intended to help players experience the current tier of content.Also, many older raids don’t require a full complement of raiders, making the Raid Finder unnecessary. This is also the first rollout of the feature and we decided to start things simple, rather than potentially delay the feature’s introduction.

If the Raid Finder proves popular, more raid instances may be added to it in the future.


Q. Will Vote Kick still work in the Raid Finder?

A. Yes, though many of the same requirements and restrictions will be in place. For example, kicking too many times can result in a Vote Kick cooldown. Also, the thresholds are different, and several players will need to agree on kicking a candidate before the vote begins. Successful kick votes will require a significant number of Yes votes to pass.


Q. What happens if I leave a Raid Finder raid before it’s over?

A. Players who leave the Raid prematurely will receive a Deserter Debuff, though it will likely be of longer duration than the one applied to users of the Dungeon Finder. This debuff will only apply to the Raid Finder system.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Raid Finder Coming in Patch 4.3 started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 279 Comments
  1. e1618978's Avatar
    It seems like these issues are pretty easy to fix:

    1. Have a PVE ilvl for PVP gear that subtracts the point budget for the resiliance and extra stamina (for example, a 365 level PVP piece might have a PVE ilvl of 340 or something).

    2. Have need/greed/mainspec. Mainspec rolls are higher than need, but can only be used by tanks on tank gear or healers on healer gear.

    3. Have some kind of rating system, where you say how good the leader was at the end of each boss. Each leader would have a ranking from each player that would change over time - so if you ranked somebody 1/10 10 times and 10/10 10 times, they would get a 5/10 from you but it would only count once against their total score. The LFR tool would pick the highest ranked leader, and give them some kind of extra reward at the end of each wing (like double valor points, maybe - or a crafting orb if they got a high enough ranking).

    I am looking forward to it - my guild died, and my schedule will let me raid just a few hours a week, but I never know when that will be. I'm not joining a new guild because I don't think I could meet guild obligations, and this will let me raid on a more flexible schedule.
  1. drinoff's Avatar
    I wanna see this raid killing a boss.... gonna be so much fun... so much... gonna queue and make a movie just because f that... GJ Blizz Fun times are comming..
  1. b0ltzz's Avatar
    Being able to queue in big groups, cooldown on votekicks - Yeah no one will be trolling raid finder groups at all.
  1. CrunkJuice5's Avatar
    We have a life outside of WOW. Wives, kids, etc. I will be damned if I am going to waste the 1 night a week that I can raid just to have some dips..t ninja something that they probably won't even use and then leave the raid straight afterwards
    casuals playing the life card as a excuse of why there bad.that card has been overused,please find another excuse as to why your bad
  1. Jitters's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Because item level is not solely used in PvE.
    Because resilience currently does nothing, doesn't mean the stats are worth zero on an item level scale. If resilience were worth zero on an item level scale, an item with 2 resilience and an item with 2k resilience with all the same stats would be worth the same. And I'm sure which one a PvPer would take.

    It's an archaic system, yes. But. It's the Blizz decide to work with it. :3
    In Pve Re silence is worthless, Just because an Ilvl is high doesn't mean you should use it in PVE if 50% of the secondary stats are useless. So yes, In PVE resilience equals 0 stats. 10,000 resilience isn't even equal to 1 agility to a rogue in PVE.
  1. Designer's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by kargar View Post
    it sounds good but with the whole leader thing i see as a band-aid you need someone who knows the fights positioning and what they are doing to lead this can be hard enough with a regulated guild group and vent let alone with just talking and 24 randoms. unless the fights are like 30%-40% nurfed i see this being a wipe fest.
    But raids shouldn't be one shotted anyway or am I wrong?
  1. zin21's Avatar
    Yeah the loot rule is just silly. need before greed is a really bad compromise between extreme two ends. blending pug styles and guild styles. LFD is an example of how bad it is, but in LFD it doesnt matter so much cause there's no lockout anymore. And no one really cares that much for 5 man loot anyway. Random goodie bag type of loot style would've been better that way nobody feels robbed and it feels like you've been rewarded with something for your trouble.
  1. Nungamunch's Avatar
    The fucktards in this game are numerous - as much as I like this system to carry my lazy ass (in principle), Blizzard have left in all the shitty aspects of the dungeon finder (dps need rolling on tank and healer gear, morons with total anonymity, terrible players who even after 11 months of this expansion still don't know to get past the first boss in HoO). If I'm going to endure hell tanking for a bunch of retarded babies with tiny dicks and then they'll allow a frost dk to roll need on tank items - not gonna prove popular. Why the hell would you want to tank for that? At least in heroic dungeons you can drop group and try again the next day but a week to run it and only have a chance of it dropping and then another frost dk rolling need on the tank item - why would you want to do this? I just hope I can gear up in time to apply to a new guild before 4.3. LFR is not going to be worth my time.
  1. Leat's Avatar
    PLEASE, make the item level requirement be of PvE gear ONLY, and what they have EQUIPPED. Don't let people with a PvP set go to raids when they're actually only wearing PvE blues.
  1. CrunkJuice5's Avatar
    If I'm going to endure hell tanking for a bunch of retarded babies with tiny dicks and then they'll allow a frost dk to roll need on tank items
    you sound like a "fucktard" yourself.im gonna enjoy watching you leave group after the first wipe like every other fail tank in this game

    oh and id also enjoy rolling need on everything you want.it makes me laugh when kids rage about loot in this game
  1. Antherios's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by CrunkJuice5 View Post
    you sound like a "fucktard" yourself.im gonna enjoy watching you leave group after the first wipe like every other fail tank in this game

    oh and id also enjoy rolling need on everything you want.it makes me laugh when kids rage about loot in this game
    Lol, you also sound like a "fucktard". "Im gonna need on everything to make people mad, im badass because i make little kids cry, oh yeah"
  1. Azrile's Avatar
    yeah.. this is going to be fail just because of the tank and healer loot issues. You think there are issues getting tanks for LFD.. wait until those 2 tanks now have 10 people rolling against them for tanking gear. There needs to be a priority system where tanks get priority for tank gear. But again, this is all fail because Blizzard cannot see the forest through the trees. They are making it easier for more players to see raid content. The problem is, the players that are leaving don´t want raid content, they want more interesting and challenging SOLO content.
  1. Sesshou's Avatar
    So whats to stop a 10m guild (or even just 10+ group from a 25m guild) from queing in for the extra loot and then everyone able to equip the item and who has that armor type as their highest equipable from just rolling on everything and giving it to their guildies? Seems like a great plan. I mean blizzard does nothing about people doing the same thing in 5 man randoms.Also this raid leader queing thing... every horrible I've ever seen as dungeon leader and actually asked, clicked it cause they thought it would get them a group faster. Seeing as how those people are what the raid finder is aimed at...
  1. Zubei's Avatar
    Complete fail because of lower loot level than both normal and heroic versions of the raid instance. What is the point to spend time in a raid that not only locks you from looting a certain boss but also gives you lower level loot than the normal mode of the raid.
  1. TheBoo's Avatar
    I think i know why blizz made FLR 25-man only.
    There are some thoughts:
    1. I doubt they will nerf boss mechanics to make it easier. That'll destroy all purpose of "letting ppl see content" thing.
    2. I doubt they'll make raid buff, cuz it might not be enough for PuGs.
    So the only conclusion i came to: LFR is: 25 players in a normal(10) raid environment. You get unmodified bosses/difficulty and overcome them with zerg.
  1. CrunkJuice5's Avatar
    1. I doubt they will nerf boss mechanics to make it easier. That'll destroy all purpose of "letting ppl see content" thing.
    ya,people cant even do 5 man heroics sucessful.there eather gonna nerf the boss mechanics and make it easier,or more people will leave


    the only way i could possibly see raid finder actually suceeding is nerfing it.i mean,assuming the same quality of people who do random dungeon finder are gonna be doing raid finder,those people cant even get 5 man heroic boss mechanics down without fail(ozruk and jindo the godbreaker come to mind)
  1. Rixis's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Zubei View Post
    Complete fail because of lower loot level than both normal and heroic versions of the raid instance. What is the point to spend time in a raid that not only locks you from looting a certain boss but also gives you lower level loot than the normal mode of the raid.
    it only locks you out of loot if you killed the boss already, ring any bells? (ie. raiding for the last 6 years whereby killing a boss meant you got no loot from it as you were locked fom even killing it again, even moreso with shared locks)

    lower level loot because it is easier, it's for the people not good enough to guild raid, or don't have the times to make specific raid time setc
  1. Gilian's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Vazhra View Post
    I have to disagree with you on this. If you PuG a heroic with your friends on YOUR server, you are locked out of that heroic after you clear it, UNLESS you que for a random dungeon in LFG and happen to get it. You are able to get gear from it each time you go through and gear up your main, alts, friends, whoever. In a raid, you are also bound by the same rules. You are locked to each boss once per week and get one shot at gear. The ideology behind it transfer over that if you are going to be doing a raid over and over again for SUB-PAR loot, you should be able to have a shot at rolling each time. I mean, who gives a shit if you can farm the raid? Who loses in the end if you can constantly get gear from the raid? The guy who constantly leaves after the first boss? Eventually he gets all his drops he wanted and starts sticking it out for his 250 VP and LFR achieves.

    I honestly just cannot contemplate why people would be against getting to roll more than once per week. If you have gotten gear from that boss, I completely understand not being able to roll anymore. I could also understand if you only were allowed to get loot once a week from a boss under the LFR system. As it currently stands, I believe it's going to frustrate a lot of people and they will lose more subscribers because of it.
    People will get bored extremely fast. That's why they don't let you roll again.

    Imagine everyone spamming LFR seven times a week. How is this raid going to be fun for them in a month?

    ---------- Post added 2011-10-03 at 07:51 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

    I am looking forward to it - my guild died, and my schedule will let me raid just a few hours a week, but I never know when that will be. I'm not joining a new guild because I don't think I could meet guild obligations, and this will let me raid on a more flexible schedule.
    That's probably the biggest reason why people will use LFR. But what I don't understand is that you really want to go through the horror of pugging. Especially when you are used to an organized guild.
    If I would be still playing wow now and I didn't have the possibility of scheduling raids with a guild then I wouldn't be raiding at all and probably playing another game.
    I have joined pugs when I got bored and my guild wasn't raiding. Once I was sitting in this group waiting for at least 1,5 hours to fill it up. Then when I was standing in front of the raid entrance for 10 minutes and the group was finally full the leader kicked me out.
    I joined pugs for a raid I barely needed gear from anymore only from 2 or 3 bosses of the 12 but they, 90% of the time, end half way the instance because people leave because they didn't get their gear or there was drama over gear or people left because we wiped 3 times.
    I just seriously can not see the fun in that. In other games I have the exact same feeling. They group you up automatically with random people and after some time I just don't want to anymore because people leave and screw up 99% of the time. Just like I am now playing Horde in Gears of War 3. I had one good group after doing more than 1000 waves. I am still having some fun but it would have been so much better to play with people who have the same goals and are on the same level as you. Now I will probably be bored of it really soon. I try to find people to play with but there are not many people looking because, just like LFD and LFR, they get teamed up automatically so why would they?

    A lot of people will use LFR just because then they don't have to find people to play with. People will get bored even faster. And then they will quit. While guilds suffer once again because all of a sudden people don't have time for guilds anymore. It will ruin the game.
    Also imagine new players joining LFR and having to go through all that drama. Do you really think they will stick around when group after group disbands or where people are slacking/leaving/afking/trolling? It's better for them to go through some drama and find some friends a long the way who they can group up with later.


    LFR is going to be a huge dramafest or it's going to be so piss easy that it's boring.
  1. acop's Avatar

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