MMO-Champion - Raid Finder Loot Rules Update
Raid Finder Loot Rules Update
Short version: When using Raid Finder for the Dragon Soul raid instance, players whose currently assigned class role (Tank, Healer, or Damage) matches the class role that a piece of armor or a weapon is flagged for will receive +100 to their Need roll.
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
In response to concerns regarding how loot will be distributed in the Raid Finder system, we are making some changes to how loot rolls will work when using the Need Before Greed system in the Raid Finder. When using Raid Finder for the Dragon Soul raid instance, players whose currently assigned class role (Tank, Healer, or Damage) matches the class role that a piece of armor or a weapon is flagged for will receive +100 to their Need roll. For purposes of this check, your currently assigned role is defined as the class role you have assigned when a boss is defeated. Sound confusing? I hope not, but here's how it'll work:

A boss dies and drops EPIC TANKING ITEM.


  • A mage in the group yawns and clicks the "Greed" button, getting a 98.

  • A Fury warrior in the group wants to take up tanking, so he rolls "Need" and gets a solid 64.

  • Both tanks want the item. Tank 1 rolls a 12, and Tank 2 rolls a 7.

So what happens?

Because the mage rolled greed, she's right out from the start. The Fury warrior's Need roll was higher than the tanks', but he was in the Damage Dealer role when the boss died, and the item is flagged for tanking, so his 64 is still just a 64 out of a possible 100. In contrast, Tank 1 and Tank 2 each get a 100 point bonus to their rolls because they were in the Tanking role when the boss died and they’re rolling on an item that has been flagged for the tanking role. That means that Tank 1 rolled a 112 out of 200, and tank 2 rolled a 107 out of 200. Tank 1 wins the item! If a roll got a bonus, that bonus will be clearly displayed in the chat log.

Please keep in mind that, at least for now, this system will only look at class role, and not player spec. This bonus isn't only for tanking items either – it applies to Tanking, Damage Dealing, and Healing items, and some items are flagged for more than one class role too. Starting out, only Dragon Soul raid items will be flagged for class roles in this way (though all of the items in the raid will be flagged for one or more roles). As you might expect, all the normal Need Before Greed rules are still in place, so that means that these roll bonuses won't overrule normal class and usability restrictions. Item tooltips in the raid won't reflect which class roles will get rolling bonuses, but it should be fairly obvious based on stat allocations and item type.

We are considering expanding this system to apply to the new 4.3 dungeons as well, though it is unlikely that we'll see the system apply to older dungeons or raids for now. Also, please keep in mind that this system is newly minted, and it may see further changes before it's released with the Raid Finder in patch 4.3.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Raid Finder Loot Rules Update started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 460 Comments
  1. kreno's Avatar
    Sounds like a GREAT way to do it. Looking forward to a way for DPS plates to stop rolling on Tanking plates and Healing Cloths to be rolled on by Healing Clothies.
  1. jsz's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by meroko View Post
    LoL, the way they described it was that the specific spec always wins. If tank A and B roll 7 and 12, they always get +100 added to that. They made it seem like it wasn't a /random 200 roll but a /roll with 100 added on which means no matter what they couldn't be beat. I am hoping he just described it wonky and bonus rolls are just getting a /random 200 roll
    That's the point. Whenever a main spec tank rolls need on a tanking-flagged item, he's guaranteed to win it.
  1. seam's Avatar
    That actually sounds like a great idea.
  1. Cronos's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalx View Post
    I wonder why not make a MS need button and a OS need button and make them available to the respective specs instead of this.. wouldn't a +100 be a guaranteed win? MS can roll 1 and OS roll 100, and MS will still win with 101. so there's not much point in that
    Because if its well enforced its harder to implement and if its loosely enforced (as in the buttons are there and you can still click whatever you want) there will still be douches.

    So either harder to implement or solves nothing, this solution is better in the way that is simpler and it does solve the problem to a high degree (not saying 100% because a tank can still roll need for a tanking item they already have and maybe giving it to a friend that is in the raid)
  1. Ineras's Avatar
    I wonder if +spi items will be considered MS by this system for both healers and shadowpriests/boomkin/ele shamans?
  1. Bahska's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalx View Post
    I wonder why not make a MS need button and a OS need button and make them available to the respective specs instead of this.. wouldn't a +100 be a guaranteed win? MS can roll 1 and OS roll 100, and MS will still win with 101. so there's not much point in that
    Thats the whole point, the person rolling for off spec shouldn't get the item over the main spec roll. In a normal raid main spec beats off spec so why shouldn't it here?

    You gotta shake the LFG mentality, this is meant to be a beginners raid same rules apply as a normal raid just easier.

    I wonder why not make a MS need button and a OS need button
    Thats basically what this is, there just making sure MS gets priority by adding a internal mechanic. If theres no MS rolls the OS people still get a chance, the same way its done with other loot rules in a normal raid.
  1. alteam's Avatar
    this is awesome!
  1. SnickSnack's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by frag971 View Post
    So what prevents having all fury, cats, retris and frostDKs to select tanking role just before the pull and have +100 on that last item they want from that specific boss?
    I would assume that you are unable to change your role like in the dungeon finder
  1. Anakso's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by frag971 View Post
    So what prevents having all fury, cats, retris and frostDKs to select tanking role just before the pull and have +100 on that last item they want from that specific boss?
    The raid finder system will work the same way raids do from what I understand you will have a raid leader and that raid leader can throw out assists, now presumably you can only change rolls if you are RL or have assist, making the problem an almost none issue, but then you also have to consider that for a ret pally to change his roll to tank before pull to allow him to roll on tank items, he will be forfeiting rolling on any dps item that drops, as well as isn't even guaranteed to see the tank item he wants or win it, and unless on the last boss I can see that being a very good reason to vote to kick someone.
  1. Bullettime's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by frag971 View Post
    So what prevents having all fury, cats, retris and frostDKs to select tanking role just before the pull and have +100 on that last item they want from that specific boss?
    Because if they do that, they'll lose the shot at their DPS item drops.
  1. Omedon's Avatar
    IF, and I say IF this hits dungeons other than the most current... I truly hope that all the people that are "for" this, are also "for" tanks "gearing up" on "your" dungeon time. This will cut into the number of pre-geared (meaning, "not queueing as a tank until I have gear, or the dungeon finder crowd will eat me") tanks, and even healers in the dungeon finder, I just hope you all realize that. Tanking was the hardest way to learn before, now it's even harder, since there is less drop-gear bleedover from lucky rolls won while DPSing. I can certainly live with this change, but I hope all the people dancing in the streets realize the implications of having the dungeon finder's NBG recognize role. In short, your queue times just went up.
  1. Peako's Avatar
    I think this will be a good thing. Glad to see them at least trying
  1. Znuff's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalx View Post
    I wonder why not make a MS need button and a OS need button and make them available to the respective specs instead of this.. wouldn't a +100 be a guaranteed win? MS can roll 1 and OS roll 100, and MS will still win with 101. so there's not much point in that
    Because that way it's exploitable.
  1. Dasn's Avatar
    inb4 people inevitably complain
  1. Priesthoodz's Avatar
    I think it's a cool system
  1. Scyo's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Ineras View Post
    I wonder if +spi items will be considered MS by this system for both healers and shadowpriests/boomkin/ele shamans?
    Please keep in mind that, at least for now, this system will only look at class role, and not player spec.
    I expect the system not to be perfect from the get go, but in time it will get fleshed out and it will consider specs aswell.
  1. Supertao The Pro's Avatar
    This is fine but is that rule still in that says you can only get 1 shot at loot per boss a week (meaning even if nothing for you even dropped you cant get loot again for the week)?
  1. helheim's Avatar
    its a step in the right direction but i think it needs some tweaking. as stated by others the +100 is kind of shitty. example: let's say a 1h mace with spirit, spellpower and haste drops. this is primarily a healer item, however some classes - looking at you shaman and spriests - are flagged as dps and this is an obvious choice for them as well. if the item is flagged as a healer drop exclusively, and the healer say rolls a 2, but the spriest and shaman roll say a 98 and 85 respectively, the healer will win with the +100 despite being outrolled by 2 classes that can utilize the same item. imo the solution is not to add +100 to the /roll, but rather a number slightly lower, say +50. by adding a +100 to the roll, a healer could in theory roll a 1, and the shaman or spriest in my example could both roll 100, and the healer would win because of the modifier on the roll. in another example, let's say that like in firelands, there is a low quantity of spirit cloth gear. as a result a wrist drops with haste and mastery and int. before the removal of healing power and homogenization with spell power, this would be a clear as day dps item. in todays wow, this item is both a healer AND dps caster item. how is this item flagged? if it is flagged as a healer item, the dps will lose every time, again due to the modifier on the roll. while this system is an improvement over the standard need over greed system in place on live realms right now, just like in life, some one is going to end up getting the short end of the stick.
  1. Galm's Avatar
    Blizzard could've done this better, i.e. making need roll only available for the specific role, and greed roll for "offspec rolls" only available for players that wear the same armor type (obviously banning DKs and Warriors from rolling greed on healing plate etc.). Blizzard has gone too far with expanding the rolling from 1-100!
  1. Affectionate's Avatar
    So basically, all they did was make the NEED roll go "main spec > offspec" great change. I hope they apply that to ALL dungeon drops as well, I was always a lil sad about the de button counting the same as a greed roll, since ive seen many an offspec upgrade get DE'd

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