MMO-Champion - Raid Finder Loot Rules Update
Raid Finder Loot Rules Update
Short version: When using Raid Finder for the Dragon Soul raid instance, players whose currently assigned class role (Tank, Healer, or Damage) matches the class role that a piece of armor or a weapon is flagged for will receive +100 to their Need roll.
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
In response to concerns regarding how loot will be distributed in the Raid Finder system, we are making some changes to how loot rolls will work when using the Need Before Greed system in the Raid Finder. When using Raid Finder for the Dragon Soul raid instance, players whose currently assigned class role (Tank, Healer, or Damage) matches the class role that a piece of armor or a weapon is flagged for will receive +100 to their Need roll. For purposes of this check, your currently assigned role is defined as the class role you have assigned when a boss is defeated. Sound confusing? I hope not, but here's how it'll work:

A boss dies and drops EPIC TANKING ITEM.


  • A mage in the group yawns and clicks the "Greed" button, getting a 98.

  • A Fury warrior in the group wants to take up tanking, so he rolls "Need" and gets a solid 64.

  • Both tanks want the item. Tank 1 rolls a 12, and Tank 2 rolls a 7.

So what happens?

Because the mage rolled greed, she's right out from the start. The Fury warrior's Need roll was higher than the tanks', but he was in the Damage Dealer role when the boss died, and the item is flagged for tanking, so his 64 is still just a 64 out of a possible 100. In contrast, Tank 1 and Tank 2 each get a 100 point bonus to their rolls because they were in the Tanking role when the boss died and they’re rolling on an item that has been flagged for the tanking role. That means that Tank 1 rolled a 112 out of 200, and tank 2 rolled a 107 out of 200. Tank 1 wins the item! If a roll got a bonus, that bonus will be clearly displayed in the chat log.

Please keep in mind that, at least for now, this system will only look at class role, and not player spec. This bonus isn't only for tanking items either – it applies to Tanking, Damage Dealing, and Healing items, and some items are flagged for more than one class role too. Starting out, only Dragon Soul raid items will be flagged for class roles in this way (though all of the items in the raid will be flagged for one or more roles). As you might expect, all the normal Need Before Greed rules are still in place, so that means that these roll bonuses won't overrule normal class and usability restrictions. Item tooltips in the raid won't reflect which class roles will get rolling bonuses, but it should be fairly obvious based on stat allocations and item type.

We are considering expanding this system to apply to the new 4.3 dungeons as well, though it is unlikely that we'll see the system apply to older dungeons or raids for now. Also, please keep in mind that this system is newly minted, and it may see further changes before it's released with the Raid Finder in patch 4.3.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Raid Finder Loot Rules Update started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 460 Comments
  1. Nosonia's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalx View Post
    I wonder why not make a MS need button and a OS need button and make them available to the respective specs instead of this.. wouldn't a +100 be a guaranteed win? MS can roll 1 and OS roll 100, and MS will still win with 101. so there's not much point in that
    This is the same thing, without having to modify the UI and how rolls work all across WoW.

    This idea was probably much easier to implement going forward.

    The point is that a main spec rolling a 1 should beat an offspec rolling 100. So this is as intended.
  1. videotape's Avatar
    This is about as good a system as one could hope for. It's not perfect, but what is? I dig it.
  1. Pancaspe's Avatar
    Once again, Blizzard sets the standard for the entire industry.

    Nice work Blizz!
  1. Ivirus's Avatar
    This is what it needed to be from the beginning!
  1. Rioo's Avatar
    Pretty good solution if Blizzard don't want to add an offspec button.
  1. Falos's Avatar
    >some items are flagged for more than one class role Should be interesting. Hit/exp are currently valid tank stats, though that may change in the future. Mastery is popular with many specs, but adored by shield tanks. Spirit/hit are somewhat interchangeable with casters/heals, and healers are sometimes not fond of the crit sometimes found on designated healer gear, despite the subtle insistence. Splitting agility along leather/mail helps, but when it comes to weapons things are probably even more complicated. Though I suppose there won't be a whole lot of pre-deathwing dragon soul weapons? If any? Does LFRaid even go up to the final encounter with all the weapons? Well, whatever. We wait and watch. Not like it's a big deal, loot's always been a pretty whimsical spin.
  1. Azrile's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Desparatus View Post
    The bonus only applies to need rolls.

    Solid system, no flaws from what I can see, liking it.
    I think the only issue will be with how they split up the gear. There are a lot of issues, such as bear tanks, DK tank weapons and probably the biggest headache will be healers vs spriests, moonkin and elllie shaman. If a cloth item has spirit on it, does that mean spriests get the bonus 100 and a mage doesn´t? Does a bear tank get the bonus 100 for an AGI ring with crit and mastery (which is a very viable bear tank item).
  1. davesurfer's Avatar
    I support this. In order for the Raid Finder to work, this is important. I am a tank and I MAY try this on off raid nights for a few extra chances at upgrades. But I have already decided if I lose to a DD on a tanking item, I am done with it. It isn't worth my time to do it when I have a regular raid group, if I lose to DD. I lose to a tank? That's fair +1 for Blizz
  1. Harith's Avatar
    how it will work for druid tanks is quite simple it will be marked as both a tank and dps item and sens the rest of the tanks can't do a need roll on the leather item only fearl durids and rogues get the roll bonus on the item quite simpleas for the blood DK 2-hand weap tho i donno would need a special rule then, but it is not that bad to do for only 1 itempersonally i think a listing of Tank, melee dps(hunters would be here when it comes to what gear they can need with bouns), ranged dps and healer would be a better idea for the rolling system for one reason, then elemental shamans can't roll need on the agi/ap dps gear and vise versa, that is the only bad i see in this loot system
  1. Noetical's Avatar
    I wonder whether hunters will have polearms as MS or if rogues will have bows/crossbows/guns as MS?Seams harsh on my feral druid to have to roll against a hunter for a polearm and im sure they feel the same way about rogues. Only thing is that everyone and their dog has a hunter lol.
  1. Calypso's Avatar
    Good job blizzard! love this loot system change
  1. Vallius's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Noetical View Post
    I wonder whether hunters will have polearms as MS or if rogues will have bows/crossbows/guns as MS?Seams harsh on my feral druid to have to roll against a hunter for a polearm and im sure they feel the same way about rogues. Only thing is that everyone and their dog has a hunter lol.
    Yes, but you've been rolling against Hunters since the beginning anyway. This new system doesn't replace your competition for main spec, it just eliminates the off-spec ninja issue.
  1. Protectus's Avatar
    Well its not perfect but its a start. Can still see ele shamans and stuff needing on kit for another dps offspec and healers getting screwed a tad on spirit kit. At the end of the day its better than no system at all so cant complain.
  1. Cernunnos's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Vallius View Post
    Yes, but you've been rolling against Hunters since the beginning anyway. This new system doesn't replace your competition for main spec, it just eliminates the off-spec ninja issue.
    exactly this.

    In regards to MS rolls, there is no change. Blood DKs still roll against Warriors, DPS DKs and Ret Paladins
    Druids still roll against Hunters for staves and Polearms


    The problem the new loot rules are trying to stop is the Fury Warrior rolling on the Tank trinket when the tank doesn't even have it yet.
    Or the Prot Paladin rolling on the DPS bracers when the Fury warrior doesn't have them yet.



    The biggest issue I can see is for the Spirit gear, some times its BIS for both healers and DPS. If both get the +100 roll for their MS, then it's no different than LFD at the moment
  1. Azrile's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Howlrunner View Post
    Because they are in the instance as DPS as that is what they queued for? You can't change your role in 5man and won't be able to in a raid. Haven't really thought the comment through have you?
    I think a lot of people are confusing the ´role´ option in the raid interface (which we already have) with the ´role´ option you will use with the new LFR tool. This system will look at the role you select when you first join the LFR tool.. it has nothing to do with the current raid interface where you can change your role at will.
  1. felhunter's Avatar
    Big thumbs up for this!
  1. Kenai's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Harith View Post
    how it will work for druid tanks is quite simple it will be marked as both a tank and dps item and sens the rest of the tanks can't do a need roll on the leather item only fearl durids and rogues get the roll bonus on the item quite simpleas for the blood DK 2-hand weap tho i donno would need a special rule then, but it is not that bad to do for only 1 itempersonally i think a listing of Tank, melee dps(hunters would be here when it comes to what gear they can need with bouns), ranged dps and healer would be a better idea for the rolling system for one reason, then elemental shamans can't roll need on the agi/ap dps gear and vise versa, that is the only bad i see in this loot system
    This is what I am wondering as well. Caster items with spirit, caster items with hit, and caster items with neither are interesting to me. I know Blizzard and MMO-Champ do not use the same loot classification system, but things like Jaws of Defeat and Shard of Woe (Healer BiS trinks atm) are labled Spellpower DPS on this site simply because they do not have spirit on them. If they do somehow incorrectly label items, I hope they will not take long to hotfix them, or hope that they will not ignore the error entirely. Then there are more sticky situations like Druid/Hunter Polearms, Hunter/Rogue Ranged Weapons, Enhancement Spellpower items (although that is going away I think), and so on.

    Regardless, if implemented right I see no problem with this.
  1. Crush's Avatar
    Great job blizzard!
  1. taylor20k's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Galm View Post
    Blizzard could've done this better, i.e. making need roll only available for the specific role, and greed roll for "offspec rolls" only available for players that wear the same armor type (obviously banning DKs and Warriors from rolling greed on healing plate etc.). Blizzard has gone too far with expanding the rolling from 1-100!
    if no one can roll greed then what happens if no one wants the item. the people that cant use it don't even get to vendor or de it? no that's retarded. it's fine the way it is.
  1. Azrile's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestle View Post
    The fact that your slapped with your role before you even enter the Raid instance and that you cannot change it once you have entered. This is for the raid finder and once you are put in a certain role, you cannot change that role unless you requeue for the instance.

    OT: I am interested as to what they do for the spirit to hit conversion factors. I'm pretty sure it will be safe to assume that they will have it that both healers and dps of that specific class can roll on the item and will get the +100 to their roll.

    Another good question would be how to differentiate between a piece of plate gear that has say +hit and +mastery. Will it be seen as a tank item or dps item? I know the differences in STR and STA will come into play but I am just intrigued. And the whole bear/kitty argument is solved with the fact that there is no tanking leather or tanking polearms. I'm curious to see if they allow bears to roll on the STR rings/cloaks/necks that have dodge/mastery to use as a tank piece.

    All-in-all, this is definitely a fantastic idea and basically only applies to tank gear/holy pally/healing trinkets, but is definitely a fantastic thing to see and is making me consider doing the raid finder to gear up my alts!
    Blizzard drastically nerfed STR for feral druids a few patches ago.. I highly doubt they would give them the bonus 100 after basically already eliminating it as a viable option.

    There are a lot of grey areas.. my guess is they are going to be as forgiving as possible with the items. But I wonder how precise they are going to be. Are they going to actually look at specs.. spriests get bonus 100 for spirit gear, but mages don´t? How about kitty dps getting bonus100 on moonkin gear (both in a dps role).. will mages get bonus100 on all cloth gear and healers not unless it has spirit?

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