MMO-Champion - Raid Finder Loot Rules Update
Raid Finder Loot Rules Update
Short version: When using Raid Finder for the Dragon Soul raid instance, players whose currently assigned class role (Tank, Healer, or Damage) matches the class role that a piece of armor or a weapon is flagged for will receive +100 to their Need roll.
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
In response to concerns regarding how loot will be distributed in the Raid Finder system, we are making some changes to how loot rolls will work when using the Need Before Greed system in the Raid Finder. When using Raid Finder for the Dragon Soul raid instance, players whose currently assigned class role (Tank, Healer, or Damage) matches the class role that a piece of armor or a weapon is flagged for will receive +100 to their Need roll. For purposes of this check, your currently assigned role is defined as the class role you have assigned when a boss is defeated. Sound confusing? I hope not, but here's how it'll work:

A boss dies and drops EPIC TANKING ITEM.


  • A mage in the group yawns and clicks the "Greed" button, getting a 98.

  • A Fury warrior in the group wants to take up tanking, so he rolls "Need" and gets a solid 64.

  • Both tanks want the item. Tank 1 rolls a 12, and Tank 2 rolls a 7.

So what happens?

Because the mage rolled greed, she's right out from the start. The Fury warrior's Need roll was higher than the tanks', but he was in the Damage Dealer role when the boss died, and the item is flagged for tanking, so his 64 is still just a 64 out of a possible 100. In contrast, Tank 1 and Tank 2 each get a 100 point bonus to their rolls because they were in the Tanking role when the boss died and they’re rolling on an item that has been flagged for the tanking role. That means that Tank 1 rolled a 112 out of 200, and tank 2 rolled a 107 out of 200. Tank 1 wins the item! If a roll got a bonus, that bonus will be clearly displayed in the chat log.

Please keep in mind that, at least for now, this system will only look at class role, and not player spec. This bonus isn't only for tanking items either – it applies to Tanking, Damage Dealing, and Healing items, and some items are flagged for more than one class role too. Starting out, only Dragon Soul raid items will be flagged for class roles in this way (though all of the items in the raid will be flagged for one or more roles). As you might expect, all the normal Need Before Greed rules are still in place, so that means that these roll bonuses won't overrule normal class and usability restrictions. Item tooltips in the raid won't reflect which class roles will get rolling bonuses, but it should be fairly obvious based on stat allocations and item type.

We are considering expanding this system to apply to the new 4.3 dungeons as well, though it is unlikely that we'll see the system apply to older dungeons or raids for now. Also, please keep in mind that this system is newly minted, and it may see further changes before it's released with the Raid Finder in patch 4.3.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Raid Finder Loot Rules Update started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 460 Comments
  1. Jagstang's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Cernunnos View Post

    The biggest issue I can see is for the Spirit gear, some times its BIS for both healers and DPS. If both get the +100 roll for their MS, then it's no different than LFD at the moment
    How is that an issue then? Anyone who make an issue out of is would be someone of limited intelligence.

    The problem I see is what does it mean when they say "Currently Assigned Role".

    Does than mean you can change your role during the raid?
  1. pvpKILLSwow's Avatar
    About time.
  1. Calene's Avatar
    I guess Blizzard will have to end up flagging items for specs rather than just roles for this system to be successful. There is too many problems for feral druids, spirit cloth wearers and death knight weapons. If it was role based I could go in as enhancement shaman and get to roll need+100 for all gears that my spec and off-spec could use.. considering a dps shaman can be either elemental or enhancement.

    If this system does not work with specs it will just be unfair to some classes. I wouldn't think I want to bring my restoration shaman if my off-spec is enhancement, I could just go as enhancement and get all the loots than just half of what I could use. Same with druids, I just go as dps and I then should be able to gear up a boomkin, resto and feral spec with need+100 with just the single role I signed up for.

    Heck this system would make it even easier for me to get gears as a shaman (for example) than how it is today in most pugs.

    ---------- Post added 2011-10-07 at 07:55 PM ----------

    Does than mean you can change your role during the raid?
    I suspect you change role if the raid signs up again to get more people for a raid or something like that. Probably will work much the same as it does with 5-mans today.
  1. Alayea's Avatar
    A decent solution, but it won't stop jerks from rolling need on something that they already have (or wearing better) if it's MS. I've had this happen on occasion in LFD, so I'm not expecting anything different from LFR.
  1. Diasteel's Avatar
    how will this system work with rouges and feral tanks when we both have the same gear will we both get the bonus or not?
  1. z01z's Avatar
    this sounds like a pretty good idea, though i can still see some drama over items that have stats valued by more than one role. but at least it's a step in the right direction in keeping dps from stealing tank loot, and other such situations.
  1. Moozart's Avatar
    there are goign to be SOOOO many QQ tears from all the greedy little pricks that feel entitled to rolling on anything they want
  1. chanfle's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by frag971 View Post
    So what prevents having all fury, cats, retris and frostDKs to select tanking role just before the pull and have +100 on that last item they want from that specific boss?
    You can't change your role after you queue for a raid or dungeon, unless someone leaves and you have to requeue.
  1. Geekissexy's Avatar
    I like this idea, a lot
  1. Jagstang's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    Blizzard drastically nerfed STR for feral druids a few patches ago.. I highly doubt they would give them the bonus 100 after basically already eliminating it as a viable option.

    There are a lot of grey areas.. my guess is they are going to be as forgiving as possible with the items. But I wonder how precise they are going to be. Are they going to actually look at specs.. spriests get bonus 100 for spirit gear, but mages don´t? How about kitty dps getting bonus100 on moonkin gear (both in a dps role).. will mages get bonus100 on all cloth gear and healers not unless it has spirit?
    With spirit, it will probably give bonuses to classes whose spec can either use it to heal, or convert spirit into hit for DPS, both of which Warlocks and Mages cannot.

    I doubt dps will get a bonus to rolls if the gear doesn't have spirit on it, though they probably will get the bonus if the gear has +hit on it.
  1. Moozart's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Jagstang View Post
    With spirit, it will probably give bonuses to classes whose spec can either use it to heal, or convert spirit into hit for DPS, both of which Warlocks and Mages cannot.
    i thought one of the mage armor buffs converted spirit to spell power or something?
  1. Jagstang's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Moozart View Post
    i thought one of the mage armor buffs converted spirit to spell power or something?
    You would have to ask a mage.
  1. Mildennais's Avatar
    I like this idea. I hate going into a random and having some ass roll need on something for off-spec when myself or someone else needs it for main. At least when I decide to raid on my alts, they won't get screwed over by OS-needing pricks. (I do not mind when people ask if it's okay, but don't just need on the damn thing)
  1. Tyrianth's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Diasteel View Post
    how will this system work with rouges and feral tanks when we both have the same gear will we both get the bonus or not?
    Answered here:

    some items are flagged for more than one class role
  1. Doomrow's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Alayea View Post
    A decent solution, but it won't stop jerks from rolling need on something that they already have (or wearing better) if it's MS. I've had this happen on occasion in LFD, so I'm not expecting anything different from LFR.
    very true,but you still cut down a large amount of jerks/ninja.
    +1 for the idea,too bad it took them(blizz) so long to come up with something like this,though I'm pretty sure I've seen the idea before,posted by a player/forum writer.
  1. helheim's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Jagstang View Post
    With spirit, it will probably give bonuses to classes whose spec can either use it to heal, or convert spirit into hit for DPS, both of which Warlocks and Mages cannot.
    from blizzard: "Please keep in mind that, at least for now, this system will only look at class role, and not player spec." so this argument is invalid. spec isn't factored in. 397 ivl stats > 359 ilvl stats. as such, a mage could see a spirit item as a huge upgrade, if only to reforge the spirit to hit.
  1. Garrum's Avatar
    More and more gear will have to be flagged as Unique to keep douche bag tanks from needing on it even when they have it already just to sell it. Wont stop the ones that have better doing it, but not much can be done about that I guess.
  1. Maak's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Moozart View Post
    i thought one of the mage armor buffs converted spirit to spell power or something?
    Molten Armor used to convert a spirit percentage into critical strike rating, it changed when 4.0 went live. So mages don't need spirit anymore and probably never will again.

    Other than that, cool idea for Raid Finder.
  1. paloalto's Avatar
    It's better than not doing anything, that's for sure. However, unless we see updates to how Blizzard flags loot, it's only going to highlight Blizzard's failures in that area.

    Currently, as a rogue, I can roll need on some strength items, trinkets and weapons generally. Theoretically, in this system, I can roll need as a DPS on a strength DPS trinket and have a guarantee to win it over a warrior/pally/dk tank who could actually use it as an off-spec as opposed to just being vendor trash for me. Same with spirit and mages. A mage can win spirit gear over a pally or druid tank, as many spirit items will be flagged as both DPS and healer items. Once again, vendor trash (and seriously sub-optimal gear) will win over somebody who could legitimately use the item as an off-spec.

    Additionally, shamans and druids present another issue. Boomkins rolling on agility leather rolling on equal playing field to rogues and ferals, ele shammies rolling on hunter and enhance loot. This is a problem that exists now, of course, but the role feature just highlights it. Further, you can't separate it into melee and ranged DPS because agility mail is used by both, as are agility rings, trinkets, necks etc.

    Once again, it's better than nothing, but it's not as good a step as the loot system detecting your current spec and off-spec and opening up MS Need and OS Need based on those instead. And they really need to revisit their flagging system, anyway.
  1. Keristrasza's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Noetical View Post
    I wonder whether hunters will have polearms as MS or if rogues will have bows/crossbows/guns as MS?Seams harsh on my feral druid to have to roll against a hunter for a polearm and im sure they feel the same way about rogues. Only thing is that everyone and their dog has a hunter lol.
    While I understand your plight, hunters were using polearms since vanilla and druids didn't get them until BC. While I am not saying it is a "Hunter weapon" (As that kind of thought pattern pisses me off) I am thinking that one will be shared while the bow/gun/cross bow will be placed as MS for hunters since rogues use throwing weapons. o.0 Or should at least.

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