Raid Finder Loot Rules Update

Originally Posted by Omedon

IF, and I say IF this hits dungeons other than the most current... I truly hope that all the people that are "for" this, are also "for" tanks "gearing up" on "your" dungeon time. This will cut into the number of pre-geared (meaning, "not queueing as a tank until I have gear, or the dungeon finder crowd will eat me") tanks, and even healers in the dungeon finder, I just hope you all realize that. Tanking was the hardest way to learn before, now it's even harder, since there is less drop-gear bleedover from lucky rolls won while DPSing. I can certainly live with this change, but I hope all the people dancing in the streets realize the implications of having the dungeon finder's NBG recognize role. In short, your queue times just went up.

If you want to roll for healing or tanking gear in a LFD group then you should QUEUE as it. Period. Otherwise you are nothing but a ninja. I'd rather wait a bit longer for my group than ending up with douches who think like this.

Originally Posted by Omedon

IF, and I say IF this hits dungeons other than the most current... I truly hope that all the people that are "for" this, are also "for" tanks "gearing up" on "your" dungeon time. This will cut into the number of pre-geared (meaning, "not queueing as a tank until I have gear, or the dungeon finder crowd will eat me") tanks, and even healers in the dungeon finder, I just hope you all realize that. Tanking was the hardest way to learn before, now it's even harder, since there is less drop-gear bleedover from lucky rolls won while DPSing. I can certainly live with this change, but I hope all the people dancing in the streets realize the implications of having the dungeon finder's NBG recognize role. In short, your queue times just went up.

you know as a tank myself when i was trying to gear myself just through dungeons... if anything that i needed dropped the only time i would ever win it was in a GUILD group. I personaly dont like that people could just come in and roll on something that a TANK needs if i had it my way they would have to send a request to both of the tanks before the need option would even be viable for the other person. and yeah i guess you could say thats cause im just a little jaded from being burned so much, but i would like to provied insight for you... its a little messed up when a DPS que's up and gets to roll on my trinkets and weapons before i even have them... i have no problem with them being able to roll AFTER i get what i qued up for because of the work that i put in and i dont feel its right that im going to carry someone cause they dont want to take their second spec all the way back to doing regs or even just buying peices first from JP and then queing up and getting the gear that they EARNED. i dont concider it being earned if a dps rolls on a tank item. just sayin.

Originally Posted by frag971

So what prevents having all fury, cats, retris and frostDKs to select tanking role just before the pull and have +100 on that last item they want from that specific boss?

would say there is 2 tanks no more class role changes is permeted no more ninja just perfect to be true hope it works

I love it. I don't know, however, how they will implement items like Expertise + Mastery, which are pretty good for both dps and tanks. Socket bonus? Anyway, good job.

Very nice Idea blizzard. I hope the implementation is just as good

I already know that this system is not going to work.Why? Two words: Hybrid Casters.Either Healers will have their gear constantly rolled on by DPS, or the DPS will not get the Spirit they need to reach the hit cap.

Originally Posted by lambikas

If I am a paladin (tank and healer specs) and I queue to random HC as both specs and my role in instance will be healer - that means I have priority only on healer gear, have same priority as other melee dps to tanking gear after tanks priority?
If so, we are forced to use one spec for instances (the spec we need gear for).
The way I see it, blizz should change something in role priority, for example:I get selected to instance as a tank but I don't need any tanking gear and prefer healing gear - I should be able to set my loot priority to healing loot instead of tanking.
Yes it's going to be unfair for other players, but it's also unfair for those who have dual spec. I mean, this new looting system isn't dual spec friendly at all.

This attitude that you should be able to roll on gear for roles you did NOT sign up to perform in the raid/5 man is exactly why these rules were implemented. And i say about friggen time. Want healer gear? HEAL. Want tank gear? TANK. And back off of the people who busted their butt to perform whichever role and let them take the gear. I mean seriously, how do you think it's ok to roll on something over the actual tank/healers?

---------- Post added 2011-10-08 at 10:07 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Omedon

IF, and I say IF this hits dungeons other than the most current... I truly hope that all the people that are "for" this, are also "for" tanks "gearing up" on "your" dungeon time. This will cut into the number of pre-geared (meaning, "not queueing as a tank until I have gear, or the dungeon finder crowd will eat me") tanks, and even healers in the dungeon finder, I just hope you all realize that. Tanking was the hardest way to learn before, now it's even harder, since there is less drop-gear bleedover from lucky rolls won while DPSing. I can certainly live with this change, but I hope all the people dancing in the streets realize the implications of having the dungeon finder's NBG recognize role. In short, your queue times just went up.

God i hate dps who roll on tank gear over the actual tank to "gear up" so they can tank stuff. If you want to start tanking, start at the bottom and work your way up like everyone else. Or roll on crap when the tank doesn't need it. Everyone hates the dps'ers your describing... and if you don't hate them your probably one of the people everyone hates.

Originally Posted by Dranged

If you want to roll for healing or tanking gear in a LFD group then you should QUEUE as it. Period. Otherwise you are nothing but a ninja. I'd rather wait a bit longer for my group than ending up with douches who think like this.

People like Dranged here just destroy my faith in the human mind. They are the majority and it is sad. I'm losing much of my respect towards Blizzard for caving in under pressure from these mongs and HOPE they're either removing this rule system or at least stopping with it because this is getting close to unsub-kind of faggotry.

I'll put it this way.

Scene 1 A top performing DPS has been told he needs to gear his tanking offspec. He finds he needs a tanking ring from a dungeon and queues as DPS. He contributes to the group and they get through the dungeon fast and when the final boss goes down he rolls on the ring which he came there for. He played through the dungeon and used as much of his time as everyone else did and he was rewarded for it just as everyone else was.

Scene 2 Same guy, queues as tank in his rubbish tank gear and doesn't know his abilities, hasn't even bound his useful skills. The group starts clearing and a couple pulls after realise they're gonna need to compensate for the tanks performance, they're gonna have to spend a ton more time in order to actually kill anything. They could also kick him which would mean he queues again and the same thing happens for another group.

Basically what I'm saying is the role you choose when you go in an instance is just to avoid mixups. It does not matter to anyone but yourself what your main and offspec are and how you want to progress in the game. The quality of groups matter, it's something that affects everyone.

I can just see this fucking me up, as a feral druid tank, im suspecting they will be forcing me into rolling on dodge/stam trinkets, when i use agility ones.. since they slacked and made us share gear now also, its gonna be a bitch for me to gear in raidfinder, as DPS will share the bonus with me as a tank... If they bring back tanking leather then i would appreciate it more. but untill that day, this effects me negatively.
Theres also a issue with some healer rings not having spirit (like the one from Shannox for example) The items wont be indevidually flagged like they should be, it will be spirit = healer no spirit = dps str = plate agi = leather/mail - like it is in dungeon finder.
Its better than just plain old need or greed, but its not going to prevernt all the issues. I would vote for leader gets master loot, if they ninja a item to themselves / someone else, have a report feature, little investigation on a GM's part, and they then cannot queue as a leader again. Have the leader ban account wide, yea, there may be problems after the first week, an extra work load for GM's but, after they are caught, there will be no such thing as ninja'ing.

Originally Posted by Two Sheds

Scene 2 Same guy, queues as tank in his rubbish tank gear and doesn't know his abilities, hasn't even bound his useful skills.

There is NO excuse for this. There are so many resources online that without ever playing a character you should be able to do fine in a random heroic. If you've done this you should really stop being so selfish.



As for the roll system; I like it. I won't have to wait to make sure the tank/healer/dps has passed or greeded on an item anymore. If I want a piece now for offspec or mainspec I can just need.

It doesn't prevent you from getting your offspec piece it just prevents you from taking it from someones main spec. A few people seem to be acting like it'll be impossible to get pieces for their offspecs anymore.

I always thought the roll system was missing an option, though I would've labelled it Mainspec Offspec Greed.

Originally Posted by Two Sheds

People like Dranged here just destroy my faith in the human mind. They are the majority and it is sad. I'm losing much of my respect towards Blizzard for caving in under pressure from these mongs and HOPE they're either removing this rule system or at least stopping with it because this is getting close to unsub-kind of faggotry.

I'll put it this way.

Scene 1 A top performing DPS has been told he needs to gear his tanking offspec. He finds he needs a tanking ring from a dungeon and queues as DPS. He contributes to the group and they get through the dungeon fast and when the final boss goes down he rolls on the ring which he came there for. He played through the dungeon and used as much of his time as everyone else did and he was rewarded for it just as everyone else was.
.

He should queue as a tank.

Also if you are already part of a raiding guild you won't even have this issue.

Originally Posted by Teslaspule

I doubt they'll manage to flag the items correct. I still find strength items when I filter for shaman in the fireland dungeon journal.

It does that with everyone though because the items arent flagged as for a particular type of role/spec, just essentially what you can equip. For the same reason, it doesnt filter out trinkets, neck, cloaks or rings either.

It'll be interesting to see how exactly it gets implemented. My guess is it wont quite be as simple as "healer/tank/dps", as the non armour items (trinkets, rings, cloaks etc) will become problematic and the cause of complaints. For example, an agi ring drops, and is flagged as dps, people in the group as moonkins and elemental get to roll despite not being their main spec. In fact, it will be interesting to see how they handle druids and shamans as they have 2 differing dps specs. To change the example above slightly though, say a strength dps trinket drops -will all dps be able to roll, or just classes that use strength.

Aside from how they are going to get around the druid/shaman issue, I would assume how they will get around the problem would be to flag items with more groups than the three primary roles, but have, say strength dps, agi dps, int dps, hybrid caster dps (so ele/sp/moonkins can roll on spirit as well as healers), dk tank (for 2 handers), healer, and so on, with some having more than 1 tag. So a neck with spirit on would have the healer and hybrid caster dps so healers and moonkins/ele shamans could roll. We'll see if its an improvement though. Thing is, either way you get complaining. At first it was the people crying ninjas running rampant, now its the people complaining that they cant run as a tank/healer to gear their dps spec. No system will satisfy everyone, maybe this will have less complaining though?

Originally Posted by lambikas

If I am a paladin (tank and healer specs) and I queue to random HC as both specs and my role in instance will be healer - that means I have priority only on healer gear, have same priority as other melee dps to tanking gear after tanks priority?
If so, we are forced to use one spec for instances (the spec we need gear for).
The way I see it, blizz should change something in role priority, for example:I get selected to instance as a tank but I don't need any tanking gear and prefer healing gear - I should be able to set my loot priority to healing loot instead of tanking.
Yes it's going to be unfair for other players, but it's also unfair for those who have dual spec. I mean, this new looting system isn't dual spec friendly at all.

Its not meant to the dual spec friendly lol .... and I'm amazed you think it should be, talk about selfish. Your offspec which what your 2nd spec is should come after main spec and this is the fair way its done. You want healer gear cue as a healer you want tanking you cue as a tank and have the gear to make you capable for the role in the raid before queing. Simple isn't it. Why would the other 24 ppl want to drag you through a raid so you can upgrade gear your not using in your role? beyond me lol

While the rolling system seems solid there is sitll the issue with what gear will be tagged for which class. They say there will be items tagged as either dps, tank or healer. So take this as an example. The best shadowpriest gear out there has spirit/haste. The best healing gear out there has spirit/haste. Are these items going to be tagged healer or dps? Blizz will most likely tag some of it Dps and some of it Healing but how will we know? How am i going to gear my shadowpriest if all the haste/spirit gear is tagged as healing gear? In the end this system might be really bad for some of us.

What is so wrong with the current system? If I'm in a dps role and I roll on a tank item, I'm not denying the tank that item. I'm simply competing against him for that item. You know, "rolling" against him. It's a fair system for gear we all worked to get. I mean it Blizzard, if this thing goes through to the live servers, I'm quiting the game.

This honestly sounds like some issues are going to apply simply because they didn't take spec into consideration. This makes it sound like retribution paladins will still be able to roll need with the bonus on spellpower items flagged as DPS / Heals, or that Feral Druids will be rolling on Boomkin gear. Still, it's strides ahead of what they had beforehand, I just hope that it's not too easily exploited. Running with 25 people has a higher probability of getting 'that guy' simply because of the higher sample size.

Originally Posted by Niteynite

What is so wrong with the current system? If I'm in a dps role and I roll on a tank item, I'm not denying the tank that item. I'm simply competing against him for that item. You know, "rolling" against him. It's a fair system for gear we all worked to get. I mean it Blizzard, if this thing goes through to the live servers, I'm quiting the game.

I just can't help but laugh at this comment. People complain about the current system. Blizzard Tries to come up with a decent way to make them happy, and now you complain about the new system. So, you're gonna quit or they're gonna quit. Someone's quitting no matter what I guess.

In short, this is meant so people that are "doing it right" get a bonus for doing it right. Only loot pirates and roll hackers are saying that Blizzard sucks for doing this.

Great idea Blizz, looks to have solved all the qqing about ninjas. The thing i'm concerned about is with only 25 man raids available the tanks will gear up much quicker than the dps as they only have to roll against 1 other person (not even 1 if its a bear/plate wearer), whereas the dps (and to a lesser extent healers) would have to roll against a lot more. This could lead to tanks finishing gearing and then going off spec to get that geared up, while the dps with off spec tank would be still gearing up their main spec. Leading to less tanks after a few months.

Originally Posted by lambikas

If I am a paladin (tank and healer specs) and I queue to random HC as both specs and my role in instance will be healer - that means I have priority only on healer gear, have same priority as other melee dps to tanking gear after tanks priority?
If so, we are forced to use one spec for instances (the spec we need gear for).
The way I see it, blizz should change something in role priority, for example:I get selected to instance as a tank but I don't need any tanking gear and prefer healing gear - I should be able to set my loot priority to healing loot instead of tanking.
Yes it's going to be unfair for other players, but it's also unfair for those who have dual spec. I mean, this new looting system isn't dual spec friendly at all.

You don't have to choose one specc to get gear you can still roll need on anything you want it's just that if you want a dps piece as a paladin and there's a dps warrior in the group who also need it he will win it. This is a good thing and it's much more fair. Especially to pure dps classes that first have to wait much longer for a queue just to see what they needed be taken by the tank or the healer that already took 5 other items for healing/tanking.