Raid Finder Loot Rules Update

Raid Finder Loot Rules Update
Short version: When using Raid Finder for the Dragon Soul raid instance, players whose currently assigned class role (Tank, Healer, or Damage) matches the class role that a piece of armor or a weapon is flagged for will receive +100 to their Need roll.
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
In response to concerns regarding how loot will be distributed in the Raid Finder system, we are making some changes to how loot rolls will work when using the Need Before Greed system in the Raid Finder. When using Raid Finder for the Dragon Soul raid instance, players whose currently assigned class role (Tank, Healer, or Damage) matches the class role that a piece of armor or a weapon is flagged for will receive +100 to their Need roll. For purposes of this check, your currently assigned role is defined as the class role you have assigned when a boss is defeated. Sound confusing? I hope not, but here's how it'll work:

A boss dies and drops EPIC TANKING ITEM.


  • A mage in the group yawns and clicks the "Greed" button, getting a 98.

  • A Fury warrior in the group wants to take up tanking, so he rolls "Need" and gets a solid 64.

  • Both tanks want the item. Tank 1 rolls a 12, and Tank 2 rolls a 7.

So what happens?

Because the mage rolled greed, she's right out from the start. The Fury warrior's Need roll was higher than the tanks', but he was in the Damage Dealer role when the boss died, and the item is flagged for tanking, so his 64 is still just a 64 out of a possible 100. In contrast, Tank 1 and Tank 2 each get a 100 point bonus to their rolls because they were in the Tanking role when the boss died and they’re rolling on an item that has been flagged for the tanking role. That means that Tank 1 rolled a 112 out of 200, and tank 2 rolled a 107 out of 200. Tank 1 wins the item! If a roll got a bonus, that bonus will be clearly displayed in the chat log.

Please keep in mind that, at least for now, this system will only look at class role, and not player spec. This bonus isn't only for tanking items either – it applies to Tanking, Damage Dealing, and Healing items, and some items are flagged for more than one class role too. Starting out, only Dragon Soul raid items will be flagged for class roles in this way (though all of the items in the raid will be flagged for one or more roles). As you might expect, all the normal Need Before Greed rules are still in place, so that means that these roll bonuses won't overrule normal class and usability restrictions. Item tooltips in the raid won't reflect which class roles will get rolling bonuses, but it should be fairly obvious based on stat allocations and item type.

We are considering expanding this system to apply to the new 4.3 dungeons as well, though it is unlikely that we'll see the system apply to older dungeons or raids for now. Also, please keep in mind that this system is newly minted, and it may see further changes before it's released with the Raid Finder in patch 4.3.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Raid Finder Loot Rules Update started by Boubouille View original post
Published on 2011-10-07 04:59 PM
459 Comments
Comments 446 Comments
  1. Amerika's Avatar
    So what happens to a DPS that is trying to get a certain DPS item but happens to be the unlucky one with a tanking offspec and is chosen to do that role during the fight. How do they get they, the person who bit the bullet for the raid, end up getting rewarded? They end up with a +100 on their tanking roll I'm not saying I don't like the system but it is flawed when put into raid context (where it would be fine for 5 mans). I'm sure that will be a source of plenty of drama unless something is added where an offtank can state which item set they want before they pull the boss.
  1. Felaful's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Brazinger View Post
    LFR uses the same system as LFD - You will be flagged for the role You selected, when queuing to the raid, for the entire duration of the specific raid.

    ---------- Post added 2011-10-09 at 01:45 AM ----------



    That would be the exact same system as the current system is, just with a different style... That won't stop ninjas - However, the system, they introduced, will.
    Yea this is just the other half of that need binds boe items system. That one will ensure people aren't needing boes just to sell them. This new one also ensures that even if a dps spec actually does need that tanking item for their tank spec, the primary listed tank in the group will get it first for the main spec.
  1. mmoc80b35b5c2d's Avatar
    Wow. it took them 7 years to fix the loot system, and they wont retrofit it to the entire game? Just their new shiny gimmicky raid? /facepalm
  1. grolschs's Avatar
    I told you. When blizzard thinks of a new system, its a good system.
  1. andy_mitchelluk's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Rushro View Post
    Or just don't let people who aren't in the proper role roll need.
    The advantage this system has is that now people CAN click need for offspec and if no one needs it for main spec there's 0% chance of it being disenchanted.

    I think this is a good solution and can't wait to see it in action.

    ---------- Post added 2011-10-10 at 12:22 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Howlrunner View Post
    You answered it yourself. You queued as a tank, your a tank. Whether you respec during is irrelevant. But seeing as there will probably be need for 2 tanks throughout the whole raid, there is no real reason to spec out whatsoever.

    I really wish people would stop trying to find holes in a system in order to moan about it *sigh*.
    To add to this, I recall seeing that LFR will automatically have a set number of tanks, healers and dps so there should NEVER bee a need for anyone to change spec mid-raid. (Not having a go at you, I understood what you were saying, just adding this!)
  1. Rotted's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Percolator View Post
    Interesting, however there could be a problem regarding certain items that are BiS for tanks and dps, for instance.
    This ^

    But over all its a good system and im more than willing to risk a tank rolling on a single item thay has a slight chance of being BiS for both of us. To date in fl im only aware of Beths mandiable being bis for dks and tanks, and I think that spell power axe is bis for enhance and resto isnt it? but besides that I dont think there are any more
  1. andy_mitchelluk's Avatar
    Yeah, the only issue I can see with this system is Blizz being stupid when they flag items. I mean using the Paladin filter on the dungeon journal still shows me agility trinkets, Mage filter shows me gear with spirit on etc.. As long as they can get the gear filters corrrect, this system will be a welcome change.
  1. psimana's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Percolator View Post
    Interesting, however there could be a problem regarding certain items that are BiS for tanks and dps, for instance.
    I think people are forgetting that LFR is entry level and it is unlikely that BiS will come from that content. It's possible, but not likely.

    I think they are implementing a simple and needed feature in this new looting rule.

    It is understandable that people would have concerns about how certain items will be handled and I am not sure that all situations will turn out ideal, but I am sure that blizz will do their best to flag gear correctly. There may be a difference between what they think is a correct flagging of gear and what some theorycrafters say is the correct flagging, but again I think those will be a small number of instances. I would guess that blizzard intends to flag say spirit gear or leather agility gear as more than one role. It is possible from a database design standpoint to have more than one indicator of role for a piece of gear. So the spirit gear gets flagged dps and heal while the agility leather gear gets flagged dps and tank. The point being that aside from loot councils or some other decision making process that same piece of gear would be treated this way in a non-LFR instance and the shadow priest would be able to roll on those spirit boots as main spec along with the holy priest. Same principles apply to mh/oh/range/trinket/rings/neck/cloak, they just have a potential for even more people rolling on them.

    Yes it will suck if you run the raid 10 weeks in a row and each time the piece you wanted drops, but it's in this multi-role category and you keep losing it to someone else. That does not mean, however, that the design is flawed. It means you have been quite unlucky rolling.
  1. mmoc63b79660fb's Avatar
    OMG, no.. now hunters cant get anymore melee loot, bye dodge and parry
  1. Cetius's Avatar
    I like the idea, but it really needs to go to class + spec + role or you will have Feral druids able to need on Balance gear as both are Druid DPS. The worst will be Shadow Priests, Balance Druids, and Elemental Shaman unable to roll on Spirit gear unless they mark the gear as DPS as well, but hopefully only for those classes or other DPS of that armor type can still snipe stuff away. *fingers crossed that they get it right
  1. mmoc3a8bcb15cd's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Rotted View Post
    To date in fl im only aware of Beths mandiable being bis for dks and tanks
    Mandible isn't really bis for dks, just easier to obtain than the cleavers (especially cleaver+firestone), iirc not even for humans since if you're wearing HHoR you don't need the expertise like at all. Anyway, i can only hope blizzard doesn't fuck up loottables as much as they did in FL (granted, 7 bosses cannot offer much loot, but 2 offset tank shoulders and 0 offset dps plate shoulders is just horrible, same with 4(?) agi daggers, an agi axe and a mace versus trash drop cleavers.)
  1. Shiirow's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by frag971 View Post
    So what prevents having all fury, cats, retris and frostDKs to select tanking role just before the pull and have +100 on that last item they want from that specific boss?
    It gives you what your role was when it started... if you queued as a dps/tank and was selected as a DPS by the raid finder, you can only roll normally on Tank/Healer gear and get a +100 to your roll on DPS gear so the tank/healer cant roll need and win... but if you want that nifty tank chest that drops, you need a [Shield] icon next to your character portrait in order to have the best chance of winning a roll...
  1. Megatronn's Avatar
    Best idea yet, need to make it for spec specific also!
  1. loff93's Avatar
    what about using this rules in the LFM system -.- omg i hate all those tanks that keep needing on the dps gear.. and ofc they win it all.
  1. mmoc167fc6d419's Avatar
    shuld be a nice idea, now they just need to reset the fucking instance so we can get our gear that we are suposed to have..
  1. Stormfist_NL's Avatar
    Healers/Tanks winning DPS items <3
    People winning 3x the same token (or any item that drops 2-X times) in a run <3
    People who are AFK most of the fight cause they die at the start, winning loot <3

    World of Casualcraft yo!

    That said, if you don't like it, don't participate!

    It's a bit silly that as a progress Normal mode raider you should get your upgrades from LFR, but you're done soon enough mate!
  1. Chroi's Avatar
    I have done a fair bit of theory crafting (from a healer perspective) and have come up with the following.

    You have 3 types of healers in LFR.

    Those doing 15 - 20k HPS
    Those doing 10 - 15K HPS
    and those doing 5 - 10K HPS.

    If you are in the first grp, you get no loot. Second group, ocassional loot, third group gauranteed loot.

    It seems the more you need it, the more likely you are to get it.
    I saw a 5khps disc priest come out with no less than 1 piece of loot from every boss, while myself (20khps) got none.

    Blizzards way of keeping those that can't raid normal or heroic in the game, I guess
  1. Puna's Avatar
    I would like to see a spec based flag in the system too. I've been seeing Moonkins roll on agility leather/trinkets and it is getting a bit frustrating, especially when you armory them and they have a resto off spec.
  1. mmocc22da12227's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Chroi View Post
    I have done a fair bit of theory crafting (from a healer perspective) and have come up with the following.

    You have 3 types of healers in LFR.

    Those doing 15 - 20k HPS
    Those doing 10 - 15K HPS
    and those doing 5 - 10K HPS.

    If you are in the first grp, you get no loot. Second group, ocassional loot, third group gauranteed loot.

    It seems the more you need it, the more likely you are to get it.
    I saw a 5khps disc priest come out with no less than 1 piece of loot from every boss, while myself (20khps) got none.

    Blizzards way of keeping those that can't raid normal or heroic in the game, I guess
    Rofl, you can't possibly be serious. That's like judging a tanks skills by his DPS.
  1. Kaj392's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Chroi View Post
    Those doing 15 - 20k HPS
    Those doing 10 - 15K HPS
    and those doing 5 - 10K HPS.
    Healer doing 20k HPS>Slacks off>Gets loot
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