MMO-Champion - Raid Finder Loot Rules Update
Raid Finder Loot Rules Update
Short version: When using Raid Finder for the Dragon Soul raid instance, players whose currently assigned class role (Tank, Healer, or Damage) matches the class role that a piece of armor or a weapon is flagged for will receive +100 to their Need roll.
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
In response to concerns regarding how loot will be distributed in the Raid Finder system, we are making some changes to how loot rolls will work when using the Need Before Greed system in the Raid Finder. When using Raid Finder for the Dragon Soul raid instance, players whose currently assigned class role (Tank, Healer, or Damage) matches the class role that a piece of armor or a weapon is flagged for will receive +100 to their Need roll. For purposes of this check, your currently assigned role is defined as the class role you have assigned when a boss is defeated. Sound confusing? I hope not, but here's how it'll work:

A boss dies and drops EPIC TANKING ITEM.


  • A mage in the group yawns and clicks the "Greed" button, getting a 98.

  • A Fury warrior in the group wants to take up tanking, so he rolls "Need" and gets a solid 64.

  • Both tanks want the item. Tank 1 rolls a 12, and Tank 2 rolls a 7.

So what happens?

Because the mage rolled greed, she's right out from the start. The Fury warrior's Need roll was higher than the tanks', but he was in the Damage Dealer role when the boss died, and the item is flagged for tanking, so his 64 is still just a 64 out of a possible 100. In contrast, Tank 1 and Tank 2 each get a 100 point bonus to their rolls because they were in the Tanking role when the boss died and they’re rolling on an item that has been flagged for the tanking role. That means that Tank 1 rolled a 112 out of 200, and tank 2 rolled a 107 out of 200. Tank 1 wins the item! If a roll got a bonus, that bonus will be clearly displayed in the chat log.

Please keep in mind that, at least for now, this system will only look at class role, and not player spec. This bonus isn't only for tanking items either – it applies to Tanking, Damage Dealing, and Healing items, and some items are flagged for more than one class role too. Starting out, only Dragon Soul raid items will be flagged for class roles in this way (though all of the items in the raid will be flagged for one or more roles). As you might expect, all the normal Need Before Greed rules are still in place, so that means that these roll bonuses won't overrule normal class and usability restrictions. Item tooltips in the raid won't reflect which class roles will get rolling bonuses, but it should be fairly obvious based on stat allocations and item type.

We are considering expanding this system to apply to the new 4.3 dungeons as well, though it is unlikely that we'll see the system apply to older dungeons or raids for now. Also, please keep in mind that this system is newly minted, and it may see further changes before it's released with the Raid Finder in patch 4.3.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Raid Finder Loot Rules Update started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 460 Comments
  1. Azrile's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevoman View Post
    This is the best computerized system we can hope for. The finer points (things like polearms going to druids before hunters, and bows going to hunters before rogues) are things that nothing short of human communication and interaction can resolve. At least the system will stop 99% of gear swiping (mages taking spirit, fury warriors taking dodge, etc.), and that's already a success in my book.

    The only real point of concern/possible abuse is shadow priests, as they can use cloth hit (mages/warlock gear) and cloth spirit (holy/disc gear). All the rest are really easy to figure out.
    my guess is spirit gear will be marked dps too. They already said that they are not going to be checking specs, just roles. Moonkin, Ellies and spriests would have a hard time if they don´t mark spirit gear as dps. They will take the more liberal approach and allow mages and locks the bonus100 on spirit gear rather than locking moonkin, spriests and ellies away from spirit gear (by making it healer only)
  1. Marthisdil's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Niteynite View Post
    I helped you down that boss, then I'm going to need on the gear, main spec or not. Why should I pass up on loot just I'm not in that current spec? Yeah, you may be in the role that item calls for, but I'm going to use that spec at some point anyways. Why was there a problem in the first place when we were rolled against in the first place? It's not like I just denied you the item when you asked for it. We both rolled, sometimes you win, sometimes I do.

    Seriously Blizz, I had hope for the Raid Finder until this.
    You go ahead and roll need. If you are an arms warrior, thus, set as a dps role when you signed up for the raid finder, you could roll 100 on a need roll and still lose if any of the tanks are plate wearers and roll need, too.

    The only problems I see will be those who queue as a role (say you as an arms warrior signing up as a tank) that they are not geared to do and getting pulled along/tanking sucky, etc....but I would imagine the raid would kick you shortly after discovery.
  1. Wanotech's Avatar
    I play a bear tank so I hope the system takes that into consideration when tanking and rolling on agil gear or dps will always win it over bears
  1. jerkface's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Jagstang View Post
    Why does everyone automatically think someone rolling for their offspec is a ninja/jerk?

    All this will do is push geared and competent tanks into a dps role, where their gear is severely lacking, and geared and competent dps into a tanking role, where their gear is severely lacking.

    Instead of queuing with your best geared spec you play the best at, it's queue up in your under geared, under performing other spec, cause some cry baby qq'd enough on the forums, never realizing what they were crying about.

    You will see these same cry babies crying about bad tanks/healers queuing in dps gear, and bad dps, queuing in tank/healing gear.
    Then too bad?
    If your secondary spec is so undergeared that you're holding the raid back, then why the hell are you even in there when that's what 5 man heroics can fix in very little time?
    If you're so bad at your secondary spec that you're going to underperform your gear too, then why are you even concerned with getting raid gear for it? Even with gear, you'll still be worthless on any content you don't overgear, so again you're better off just jumping in a heroic and learning how to play it.

    Stop acting like being able to roll on anything your class can use makes or breaks everyone's ability to gear up off specs, even in current pug raids if you choose to roll dps main spec as a tank, then they don't let you still roll against the other tanks when tank gear drops. Hell, if it's going off the role you queued as, you can even use a little ingenuity and queue as dps, then ask any tank you outgear if they have a dps off spec they can switch to, allowing you to play your stronger geared spec without altering what you can roll on.
  1. Diwad's Avatar
    well at least it is a big improvement from the previous loot rules but yeah as other have mentioned what about boomkin, elemental, resto etc. and all the rings trinkets etc.?
  1. Brazorf's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalx View Post
    I wonder why not make a MS need button and a OS need button and make them available to the respective specs instead of this.. wouldn't a +100 be a guaranteed win? MS can roll 1 and OS roll 100, and MS will still win with 101. so there's not much point in that
    adding a number to a roll is a more easy cost solution programming wise than adding buttons with functions and having two different roll interface (that need to be maintained afterwards) that activates in two different situations (LFR and everything else) ^^
  1. balatro's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by frag971 View Post
    So what prevents having all fury, cats, retris and frostDKs to select tanking role just before the pull and have +100 on that last item they want from that specific boss?

    LFR doesn't work that way, it works the same way as LFD - the roll you select before queuing into a dungeon is the role you're locked in at, there's no changing it. That only works in formed raids (i.e. pugs, guild runs), not LFR.
  1. joyjoy10531's Avatar
    so what happen to the items that have spirit on them? of course they are going to flag it for the healers, but what about dps like Boomkin or shammy that could turn the spirit into hit rating?
  1. balatro's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by joyjoy10531 View Post
    so what happen to the items that have spirit on them? of course they are going to flag it for the healers, but what about dps like Boomkin or shammy that could turn the spirit into hit rating?
    It's said in the post that items can be flagged for more than one role.
  1. Keile's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by joyjoy10531 View Post
    so what happen to the items that have spirit on them? of course they are going to flag it for the healers, but what about dps like Boomkin or shammy that could turn the spirit into hit rating?
    They only have those talents because they can also heal. They did that so if someone who was MS healer needed to DPS something (say you bring 3 healers to a raid. But you really only NEEDED 2, the third was just in case), they could at least use their healing gear and do somewhat OK damage.

    Pure DPS of those specs should never need to get spirit for Hit, they have plenty of it on their regular gear.
  1. Brosemon's Avatar
    Wut about disc priests?
  1. McNeil's Avatar
    All I can say is.... ABOUT FUCKING TIME!!!!! Only 6 years late :S

    And now I might actually try out the LFR tool
  1. Meldon's Avatar
    Wrath and Hurricane animations have been updated. /yay
  1. Ernieball's Avatar
    Said items will be flagged by role but not spec. This mean that spirit>hit specs will be not get a bonus on "healing" items? They could flag those items as healing and dps but that would open them up for the pure dps to roll for bonus. I'm sure they have a solution. We shall see.
  1. Opaqus's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Keile View Post
    They only have those talents because they can also heal. They did that so if someone who was MS healer needed to DPS something (say you bring 3 healers to a raid. But you really only NEEDED 2, the third was just in case), they could at least use their healing gear and do somewhat OK damage.

    Pure DPS of those specs should never need to get spirit for Hit, they have plenty of it on their regular gear.
    Spirit gives hit rating and mana regen. The hybrid DPSers use spirit too. It's double as useful as hit. If I have hit on my gear, and it already has crit or haste on it, I reforge the hit to spirit for more mana regen.

    Edit: Not to say I roll on spirit gear over healers, but to say that spirit isn't "needed" by the hybrid casters is ludicrous.
  1. Aqua's Avatar
    ...There will be some hurdles in this system. But I am approve. And this covers what I imagine had to happen in this system anyway. Good job Blizz.
  1. UUUooo's Avatar
    I think most people are not understanding it right. The explanation isn't; really complex. When you sign up for a Looking For Raid Group, just like the LFG tool, you will select your role. (Tank, Dps, Healer) If you get selected as a Healer, you will only get a 100+ roll bonus when you select need on healer items. If you get selected as a Tank, you will only get a 100+ roll bonus when you select need on tank items. If you get selected as a Dps, you will only get a 100+ roll bonus when you select need on dps items. The armor type and the fact that a class cant use an item should play a role too, most likely making you unable to need on those particular items. This tool does not care about your spec/build but only cares about the role the LFR tool selected you as. Example: A ret paladin, with off spec protection, decides to queue as both tank and a dps. The queue pops and it says he has been selected to Tank the raid. He tanks a boss and after it dies. A plate dps chest drops. Because he can use it, he will be able to need on it. After needing on it, a fury warrior with off spec protection, also needs on the item. This fury warrior wins the item because of a +100 roll bonus since he was selected to dps the raid by the LFR tool. If you are looking to get tank gear from a raid (for example) make sure you only queue as a tank in order to get that bonus. Unfortunately, the +100 roll bonus addition does not seem to like greedy people.Or you could queue as dps and if you get selected for it, hope that the selected tanks already have that item and will not need it for vendor purposes and other similar armor type, dps will not be wanting that either. If you are looking to get both types of gear, from different bosses. Let say; a tank chest from the first boss and dps legs from the third. Feel free to only queue as tank for the first boss and once acquiring your item, ditch the raid and queue as a dps for a new one since you will only be 'saved' for the first boss, and you need the +100 roll bonus (to get those legs) which you wont be eligible to get as a tank.Or you could also hope that a dps drops and when signing up to find and new member for the group, you will change your class role from tank only to dps only. On the feral druid/rogue topic, I expect those items to both fill the dps and tank role, granting both of them a 100+ roll bonus.So if a feral tank, a feral dps, a rogue and a resto druid all need on the item, only the feral druids and the rogue will get the 100+ roll bonus. Blizz has done a good job with loot distribution and I believe they will do good with this addition, but only time will tell us.
  1. Keile's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Opaqus View Post
    Spirit gives hit rating and mana regen. The hybrid DPSers use spirit too. It's double as useful as hit. If I have hit on my gear, and it already has crit or haste on it, I reforge the hit to spirit for more mana regen.
    Again: Blizzard put those talents in so that if, say a Resto Shaman, was asked to DPS a fight (maybe they didn't need the extra heals), they could quickly change and at least be hit capped. That was the SOLE purpose of putting those talents in (this is why Mages and Locks dont get hit from Spirit!). DPS should not be having so many mana issues that they will need Spirit for regen.

    If you are OOMing as a DPS, you need to rethink your playstyle. Most DPS have ways of getting mana back easily.
  1. Opaqus's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Keile View Post
    Again: Blizzard put those talents in so that if, say a Resto Shaman, was asked to DPS a fight (maybe they didn't need the extra heals), they could quickly change and at least be hit capped. That was the SOLE purpose of putting those talents in (this is why Mages and Locks dont get hit from Spirit!). DPS should not be having so many mana issues that they will need Spirit for regen.

    If you are OOMing as a DPS, you need to rethink your playstyle. Most DPS have ways of getting mana back easily.
    Uh, no. Those offensive specs put points into those talents as well. It's a standard build. Your blanket assertion with no backing doesn't gain any strength if you keep repeating it over and over.

    Can't wait to hear you repeat yourself again, though. Lots of fun!

    Edit: Also who said anything about OOMing? All I said is that spirit gives more regen, and more regen is good. Makes it so you don't need to pop your mana regen CDs as early so you can DPS for longer. Man you sure like throwing out random stuff huh?
  1. desyphur's Avatar
    I called this and was called wrong. Yay me.

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