MMO-Champion - Raid Finder Loot Rules Update
Raid Finder Loot Rules Update
Short version: When using Raid Finder for the Dragon Soul raid instance, players whose currently assigned class role (Tank, Healer, or Damage) matches the class role that a piece of armor or a weapon is flagged for will receive +100 to their Need roll.
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
In response to concerns regarding how loot will be distributed in the Raid Finder system, we are making some changes to how loot rolls will work when using the Need Before Greed system in the Raid Finder. When using Raid Finder for the Dragon Soul raid instance, players whose currently assigned class role (Tank, Healer, or Damage) matches the class role that a piece of armor or a weapon is flagged for will receive +100 to their Need roll. For purposes of this check, your currently assigned role is defined as the class role you have assigned when a boss is defeated. Sound confusing? I hope not, but here's how it'll work:

A boss dies and drops EPIC TANKING ITEM.


  • A mage in the group yawns and clicks the "Greed" button, getting a 98.

  • A Fury warrior in the group wants to take up tanking, so he rolls "Need" and gets a solid 64.

  • Both tanks want the item. Tank 1 rolls a 12, and Tank 2 rolls a 7.

So what happens?

Because the mage rolled greed, she's right out from the start. The Fury warrior's Need roll was higher than the tanks', but he was in the Damage Dealer role when the boss died, and the item is flagged for tanking, so his 64 is still just a 64 out of a possible 100. In contrast, Tank 1 and Tank 2 each get a 100 point bonus to their rolls because they were in the Tanking role when the boss died and they’re rolling on an item that has been flagged for the tanking role. That means that Tank 1 rolled a 112 out of 200, and tank 2 rolled a 107 out of 200. Tank 1 wins the item! If a roll got a bonus, that bonus will be clearly displayed in the chat log.

Please keep in mind that, at least for now, this system will only look at class role, and not player spec. This bonus isn't only for tanking items either – it applies to Tanking, Damage Dealing, and Healing items, and some items are flagged for more than one class role too. Starting out, only Dragon Soul raid items will be flagged for class roles in this way (though all of the items in the raid will be flagged for one or more roles). As you might expect, all the normal Need Before Greed rules are still in place, so that means that these roll bonuses won't overrule normal class and usability restrictions. Item tooltips in the raid won't reflect which class roles will get rolling bonuses, but it should be fairly obvious based on stat allocations and item type.

We are considering expanding this system to apply to the new 4.3 dungeons as well, though it is unlikely that we'll see the system apply to older dungeons or raids for now. Also, please keep in mind that this system is newly minted, and it may see further changes before it's released with the Raid Finder in patch 4.3.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Raid Finder Loot Rules Update started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 460 Comments
  1. Monztah's Avatar
    While the rolling system seems solid there is sitll the issue with what gear will be tagged for which class. They say there will be items tagged as either dps, tank or healer. So take this as an example. The best shadowpriest gear out there has spirit/haste. The best healing gear out there has spirit/haste. Are these items going to be tagged healer or dps? Blizz will most likely tag some of it Dps and some of it Healing but how will we know? How am i going to gear my shadowpriest if all the haste/spirit gear is tagged as healing gear? In the end this system might be really bad for some of us.
  1. Maklor's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalx View Post
    I wonder why not make a MS need button and a OS need button and make them available to the respective specs instead of this.. wouldn't a +100 be a guaranteed win? MS can roll 1 and OS roll 100, and MS will still win with 101. so there's not much point in that
    Because it's basically the same thing.
  1. TobiasX's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by lambikas View Post
    If I am a paladin (tank and healer specs) and I queue to random HC as both specs and my role in instance will be healer - that means I have priority only on healer gear, have same priority as other melee dps to tanking gear after tanks priority?
    If so, we are forced to use one spec for instances (the spec we need gear for).
    The way I see it, blizz should change something in role priority, for example:I get selected to instance as a tank but I don't need any tanking gear and prefer healing gear - I should be able to set my loot priority to healing loot instead of tanking.
    Yes it's going to be unfair for other players, but it's also unfair for those who have dual spec. I mean, this new looting system isn't dual spec friendly at all.
    It doesn't matter what role(s) you queued as, only the role that you were put into the group as. If the role(s) you queued as actually mattered then everyone would queue as all 3 roles, making the system pointless.
  1. Niteynite's Avatar
    What is so wrong with the current system? If I'm in a dps role and I roll on a tank item, I'm not denying the tank that item. I'm simply competing against him for that item. You know, "rolling" against him. It's a fair system for gear we all worked to get. I mean it Blizzard, if this thing goes through to the live servers, I'm quiting the game.
  1. BonesTheRabbit's Avatar
    This honestly sounds like some issues are going to apply simply because they didn't take spec into consideration. This makes it sound like retribution paladins will still be able to roll need with the bonus on spellpower items flagged as DPS / Heals, or that Feral Druids will be rolling on Boomkin gear. Still, it's strides ahead of what they had beforehand, I just hope that it's not too easily exploited. Running with 25 people has a higher probability of getting 'that guy' simply because of the higher sample size.
  1. OriginZero's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Niteynite View Post
    What is so wrong with the current system? If I'm in a dps role and I roll on a tank item, I'm not denying the tank that item. I'm simply competing against him for that item. You know, "rolling" against him. It's a fair system for gear we all worked to get. I mean it Blizzard, if this thing goes through to the live servers, I'm quiting the game.
    I just can't help but laugh at this comment. People complain about the current system. Blizzard Tries to come up with a decent way to make them happy, and now you complain about the new system. So, you're gonna quit or they're gonna quit. Someone's quitting no matter what I guess.
  1. Thessalor's Avatar
    In short, this is meant so people that are "doing it right" get a bonus for doing it right. Only loot pirates and roll hackers are saying that Blizzard sucks for doing this.
  1. Aktec's Avatar
    Great idea Blizz, looks to have solved all the qqing about ninjas. The thing i'm concerned about is with only 25 man raids available the tanks will gear up much quicker than the dps as they only have to roll against 1 other person (not even 1 if its a bear/plate wearer), whereas the dps (and to a lesser extent healers) would have to roll against a lot more. This could lead to tanks finishing gearing and then going off spec to get that geared up, while the dps with off spec tank would be still gearing up their main spec. Leading to less tanks after a few months.
  1. Privus's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by lambikas View Post
    If I am a paladin (tank and healer specs) and I queue to random HC as both specs and my role in instance will be healer - that means I have priority only on healer gear, have same priority as other melee dps to tanking gear after tanks priority?
    If so, we are forced to use one spec for instances (the spec we need gear for).
    The way I see it, blizz should change something in role priority, for example:I get selected to instance as a tank but I don't need any tanking gear and prefer healing gear - I should be able to set my loot priority to healing loot instead of tanking.
    Yes it's going to be unfair for other players, but it's also unfair for those who have dual spec. I mean, this new looting system isn't dual spec friendly at all.

    You don't have to choose one specc to get gear you can still roll need on anything you want it's just that if you want a dps piece as a paladin and there's a dps warrior in the group who also need it he will win it. This is a good thing and it's much more fair. Especially to pure dps classes that first have to wait much longer for a queue just to see what they needed be taken by the tank or the healer that already took 5 other items for healing/tanking.
  1. Maklor's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by BonesTheRabbit View Post
    This honestly sounds like some issues are going to apply simply because they didn't take spec into consideration. This makes it sound like retribution paladins will still be able to roll need with the bonus on spellpower items flagged as DPS / Heals, or that Feral Druids will be rolling on Boomkin gear.
    Everyone is still able to roll need on gear they can use, but I'm pretty sure there will be both a melee dps and sp dps category for loot.
  1. Nyky's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by lambikas View Post
    If I am a paladin (tank and healer specs) and I queue to random HC as both specs and my role in instance will be healer - that means I have priority only on healer gear, have same priority as other melee dps to tanking gear after tanks priority?
    If so, we are forced to use one spec for instances (the spec we need gear for).
    The way I see it, blizz should change something in role priority, for example:I get selected to instance as a tank but I don't need any tanking gear and prefer healing gear - I should be able to set my loot priority to healing loot instead of tanking.
    Yes it's going to be unfair for other players, but it's also unfair for those who have dual spec. I mean, this new looting system isn't dual spec friendly at all.
    Hmm I relly don't understand your point.
    If you love healing and need Heal items - go there as healer.
    If you love tanking and need Tank items - go there as tank.

    You can say that you don't have good enough gear to enter raid as healer to start healing. BUT it was same for you with tanking gear before. When you didn't have good enough gear you weren't able to enter queue - so you had to craft, farm rep, farm gold atc. So go farm better gear as healer, queue as healer and roll on healer items. SIMPLY

    Your way - to go as tank and set that you will be rolling on healing items - is only way how to get nice items more easier, without hard work and overoll people which did it regular way.
  1. drukai's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Aktec View Post
    Great idea Blizz, looks to have solved all the qqing about ninjas. The thing i'm concerned about is with only 25 man raids available the tanks will gear up much quicker than the dps as they only have to roll against 1 other person (not even 1 if its a bear/plate wearer), whereas the dps (and to a lesser extent healers) would have to roll against a lot more. This could lead to tanks finishing gearing and then going off spec to get that geared up, while the dps with off spec tank would be still gearing up their main spec. Leading to less tanks after a few months.
    Admittedly, tanks have always geared up faster than everyone else *higher demand, less competition for loot*, but while I see the merit in this design, I too see a concern.

    Once a tank is done gearing as a tank, he simply wont be queuing as a tank, because hes picking up DPS pieces or healing pieces. Then again, a DPS who's building a tank set is gonna start gearing as a tank. Remember, the gear for this raid is going to be below the 10/25 man normal quality gear, so what is likely to happen once the people who dont raid too much right now have their fun, the tanks who dont raid will have geared up and switched to DPS, the DPS who do raid normally will have already gotten their DPS gear and will be queuing the LFR version as a tank to pick up pieces here and there, then once those are done, you'll start getting alts, then freshly leveled alts and new players again. It should last fairly well until the end of 4.3 actually.
  1. Ayreon's Avatar
    I wonder if plate gloves with mastery and expertise will be marked as tanking or dps item
  1. snuzzle's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Niteynite View Post
    What is so wrong with the current system? If I'm in a dps role and I roll on a tank item, I'm not denying the tank that item. I'm simply competing against him for that item. You know, "rolling" against him. It's a fair system for gear we all worked to get. I mean it Blizzard, if this thing goes through to the live servers, I'm quiting the game.
    Good. Fewer greedy folks in the LFD/LFR.

    If you want the tanking drop, you can queue as tank. It's bad enough in LFR we'll actually have tank competition, I don't want to also compete against all the furry/arms warriors, retadins and DKs who "might collect a tanking set some day".

    I am tanking, now. I need that item more than you. If you want to collect a tanking set, start tanking! Go get some rep gear and crafted stuff like we did and start at the bottom. Or get some extra JP and collect a JP tanking set. Either way, you don't get to start with taking tanking gear from the tank who needs it for once. I applaud this.
  1. Howlrunner's Avatar
    I really love how people keep forgetting that the LOOT WILL PROBABLY BE LOWER ILVL THAN STANDARD VP GEAR.
    There will be no "Tanks gearing quicker" or "Healers getting stuff faster than DPS" type shenanigans, and if it does happen, it will be pretty minimal to say the last. You can do the bosses ONCE per week and be eligible for loot. TTank loot doesn;t drop all the time, far from it, and same with DPS/Healer stuff. Everyone will be gaining VP, so in a few weeks, the VP gear (which as Blizz said is full sets again, just not tier stuff) so all the cack lowby stuff in LFR will be utterly obsolete aside from a couple of items.
    Again, why are people treating this like it is the end of the world, sure a couple of items will be nice to have, but its by no means essential.

    Good grief, some people are really whining about nothing.
  1. Dreammage's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by frag971 View Post
    So what prevents having all fury, cats, retris and frostDKs to select tanking role just before the pull and have +100 on that last item they want from that specific boss?
    Its whatever role you selected when you joined the raid from the raid finder.
  1. Ragedaug's Avatar
    Once the fast gearing tanks gear up, all you Plate DPS, who "might possibly one day tank" can roll offspec need for their gear. Problem solved.Agility leather will likely be flagged as both DPS and Tanking as only Druids and Rogues can roll need in the first place. The one loophole would be Boomkins, though the same would be an issue for all leather and mail intel gear, as every piece of intel mail & leather are for DPS specs as well as healing, so we would want to ensure hunters, enhancement, rogues, and ferals couldn't roll MS need on them, while keeping elementals and balance from MS needing agi gear.Jewelry and trinkets will make it even more fun.Blizzard already knows which classes and specs they designed each stat for, I'm holding on to hope that they can put enough intelligence into the tool that it can figure out what class/spec/role have primary access to each piece of gear.
  1. anyaka21's Avatar
    So as a point of contention and possible exploit by a toon, what's to stop a person from changing roles when the loot drops. Say a toon wants a tanking item, changes his/her flag to tank, rolls, then switches over to dps role, rolls on a dps item, etc... Granted, it'll get someone kicked pretty fast from a raid I'm sure, but what's to stop someone from doing it?
  1. Boops's Avatar
    Looking forward to try it all out!
  1. Thessalor's Avatar
    You can't change your flag when you're in a RF. It's been this way for the LFD.

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