MMO-Champion - Raid Finder Loot Rules Update
Raid Finder Loot Rules Update
Short version: When using Raid Finder for the Dragon Soul raid instance, players whose currently assigned class role (Tank, Healer, or Damage) matches the class role that a piece of armor or a weapon is flagged for will receive +100 to their Need roll.
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
In response to concerns regarding how loot will be distributed in the Raid Finder system, we are making some changes to how loot rolls will work when using the Need Before Greed system in the Raid Finder. When using Raid Finder for the Dragon Soul raid instance, players whose currently assigned class role (Tank, Healer, or Damage) matches the class role that a piece of armor or a weapon is flagged for will receive +100 to their Need roll. For purposes of this check, your currently assigned role is defined as the class role you have assigned when a boss is defeated. Sound confusing? I hope not, but here's how it'll work:

A boss dies and drops EPIC TANKING ITEM.


  • A mage in the group yawns and clicks the "Greed" button, getting a 98.

  • A Fury warrior in the group wants to take up tanking, so he rolls "Need" and gets a solid 64.

  • Both tanks want the item. Tank 1 rolls a 12, and Tank 2 rolls a 7.

So what happens?

Because the mage rolled greed, she's right out from the start. The Fury warrior's Need roll was higher than the tanks', but he was in the Damage Dealer role when the boss died, and the item is flagged for tanking, so his 64 is still just a 64 out of a possible 100. In contrast, Tank 1 and Tank 2 each get a 100 point bonus to their rolls because they were in the Tanking role when the boss died and they’re rolling on an item that has been flagged for the tanking role. That means that Tank 1 rolled a 112 out of 200, and tank 2 rolled a 107 out of 200. Tank 1 wins the item! If a roll got a bonus, that bonus will be clearly displayed in the chat log.

Please keep in mind that, at least for now, this system will only look at class role, and not player spec. This bonus isn't only for tanking items either – it applies to Tanking, Damage Dealing, and Healing items, and some items are flagged for more than one class role too. Starting out, only Dragon Soul raid items will be flagged for class roles in this way (though all of the items in the raid will be flagged for one or more roles). As you might expect, all the normal Need Before Greed rules are still in place, so that means that these roll bonuses won't overrule normal class and usability restrictions. Item tooltips in the raid won't reflect which class roles will get rolling bonuses, but it should be fairly obvious based on stat allocations and item type.

We are considering expanding this system to apply to the new 4.3 dungeons as well, though it is unlikely that we'll see the system apply to older dungeons or raids for now. Also, please keep in mind that this system is newly minted, and it may see further changes before it's released with the Raid Finder in patch 4.3.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Raid Finder Loot Rules Update started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 460 Comments
  1. Brazinger's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by anyaka21 View Post
    So as a point of contention and possible exploit by a toon, what's to stop a person from changing roles when the loot drops. Say a toon wants a tanking item, changes his/her flag to tank, rolls, then switches over to dps role, rolls on a dps item, etc... Granted, it'll get someone kicked pretty fast from a raid I'm sure, but what's to stop someone from doing it?
    LFR uses the same system as LFD - You will be flagged for the role You selected, when queuing to the raid, for the entire duration of the specific raid.

    ---------- Post added 2011-10-09 at 01:45 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalx View Post
    I wonder why not make a MS need button and a OS need button and make them available to the respective specs instead of this.. wouldn't a +100 be a guaranteed win? MS can roll 1 and OS roll 100, and MS will still win with 101. so there's not much point in that
    That would be the exact same system as the current system is, just with a different style... That won't stop ninjas - However, the system, they introduced, will.
  1. Theronus's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by snuzzle View Post
    Good. Fewer greedy folks in the LFD/LFR.

    If you want the tanking drop, you can queue as tank. It's bad enough in LFR we'll actually have tank competition, I don't want to also compete against all the furry/arms warriors, retadins and DKs who "might collect a tanking set some day".

    I am tanking, now. I need that item more than you. If you want to collect a tanking set, start tanking! Go get some rep gear and crafted stuff like we did and start at the bottom. Or get some extra JP and collect a JP tanking set. Either way, you don't get to start with taking tanking gear from the tank who needs it for once. I applaud this.
    I support this completely ^
  1. Rushro's Avatar
    Or just don't let people who aren't in the proper role roll need.
  1. Burlacher's Avatar
    great ideaas the blue post said though one problem still lingers... spec specific rolesfor examplei am a feral kitty and boomkin gear drops, i can still roll needexample 2what if spirit leather of spirit mail drops, who gets priority? the healer or dps?
  1. Edradour's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by frag971 View Post
    So what prevents having all fury, cats, retris and frostDKs to select tanking role just before the pull and have +100 on that last item they want from that specific boss?
    Its only for the Raidfinder and that should work like Dungeon Finder iE. you select a role when you queue and cant change it afterwards...i guess :P
  1. ThaNinja's Avatar
    I've read through 15 pages of this bullshit and still can't fathom why Rogues / bear tanks don't realise that theyve been rolling against each other ANYWAY.... mind boggles.... seriously, same with hunter and feral polearms... bad players are bad man/ThaNinja - 85 hunter - Phyrexian - Doomhammer
  1. deathslover's Avatar
    they should put this as the LFD loot finder too not just the LFR
  1. Alayea's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by deathslover View Post
    they should put this as the LFD loot finder too not just the LFR
    One problem with that, though: The pool of potential recipients is a lot smaller (5 vs. 25). Some things work well in certain circumstances, others not so much.
  1. Flushyss's Avatar
    Ok here's my question,I'm queued as a tank, flagged for tank role, we encounter a 1 tank boss, and I'm the one with DPS offspec, I respec to dps, and I'm still flagged as tank? What about the roll I filled on that moment, am I still a tank or am I a dps? What am I rolling for? And how does the raid finder tool know that people have the needed offspec for specific encounters? Flushy
  1. Maklor's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Flushyss View Post
    Ok here's my question,I'm queued as a tank, flagged for tank role, we encounter a 1 tank boss, and I'm the one with DPS offspec, I respec to dps, and I'm still flagged as tank? What about the roll I filled on that moment, am I still a tank or am I a dps? What am I rolling for? And how does the raid finder tool know that people have the needed offspec for specific encounters? Flushy
    Dude that question has been asked 10 times in this thread already.... you can't change your role.
  1. Hexisle's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by frag971 View Post
    So what prevents having all fury, cats, retris and frostDKs to select tanking role just before the pull and have +100 on that last item they want from that specific boss?
    That shows up on the log and they would be kicked for being a tit
  1. Gwendion's Avatar
    430 (!) comments on loot rolling by the time I write this. A lot of the posters are very concerned that it will be fair and other are concerned about their off-specc (and chances to roll for that).

    In my humble opinion they all miss the important point: The entire way raiding in future will happen is changing. Yes, the new system maybe crude and rough around the edges, yes it may lead to hard feelings on occasions, but I am trying to see the GOOD things in it:

    1) Everyone is a raider. It is your own responsibility to meet the demands set for a certain raid (e.g. "Dragon Soul"). If you do not, you cannot sign up for it. But when you do, you can sign up. If you switch to your off-specc then THAT has to meet the raid demands. This ensures that everyone in the raid group meets a minimum standard. Blizzard cannot pre-test your skills and things like that. They can only see "Achieved to be in a party and kill all endbosses in the three 5-man dungeons leading up to "Dragon Soul" raid". The system will not know that you were summoned by a friendly warlock for the end boss kill etc... So yes, it's a crude system. That's why Blizzard intends to have 3 stages for it, with different sets of loot. "tuned down learner level", "Normal level" and "heroic level". I bet each will have seperate LFR queue-joining requirements.

    2) Everybody has a chance to get THEIR loot. The definition what "their loot" is, has now been clarified. You come as feral kitty dps: You can need+100 on agi-leather meant for you. Maybe those spirit-bracers that drop are flagged for dps as well, then you can need+100 on them, too. But I don't think it's likely to expect such flagging. Let the Moonkin/Healers have what they come to the raid for. You can go to the next raid as Moonkin dps and then you get your own chance.

    3) Everyone will be raiding a lot. Raiding and raid-group building will become a lot, lot quicker and as such you can possibly do 2-3 or more raids in a day. If you want. The key thing here is that the dependency on guildies/availability etc etc, that up to now existed, will be gone for good. Yes, instead you get some people you never have seen before and maybe never see again. Yes, some will be really good in their roles and some will be having a bad hair day. But that's no different from current raiding and the fact that LFR is only for 25-mans will smoothen things over a bit. And if all fails - too bad, next raid!

    4) Good guilds can use it to their advantage. (and bad guilds can become good with it ;-) Nothing is there to stop a guild making a core 5,10 or 15 man group and join the LFR together. They might meet people from their realm they want to invite for future raids as well to their core group or even invite them to their guild, because they were so good at what they were doing. But all the "casual" raiders, the shift-workers, moms & dads who late-night raid, the pupils who can only raid before dinner time in the early afternoon - they all will find their chance to do so.

    I say the advantages far outweigh all the disadvantages that have been pointed at and I am looking forward to this new form of raiding. Thank you for reading this Gwendion, GL of Crows, Moonglade
  1. Howlrunner's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by anyaka21 View Post
    So as a point of contention and possible exploit by a toon, what's to stop a person from changing roles when the loot drops. Say a toon wants a tanking item, changes his/her flag to tank, rolls, then switches over to dps role, rolls on a dps item, etc... Granted, it'll get someone kicked pretty fast from a raid I'm sure, but what's to stop someone from doing it?

    *sigh* For the 100th time as explained here, you DON'T SET YOUR ROLE MANUALLY. Your role is what you have signed as, and you cannot chang it unless you re-queue in the instance. DO you honestly think Blizzard are that stupid to create this system and not foresee this slight flaw if you could manually change it willy nilly?

    ---------- Post added 2011-10-09 at 11:05 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Flushyss View Post
    Ok here's my question,I'm queued as a tank, flagged for tank role, we encounter a 1 tank boss, and I'm the one with DPS offspec, I respec to dps, and I'm still flagged as tank? What about the roll I filled on that moment, am I still a tank or am I a dps? What am I rolling for? And how does the raid finder tool know that people have the needed offspec for specific encounters? Flushy
    You answered it yourself. You queued as a tank, your a tank. Whether you respec during is irrelevant. But seeing as there will probably be need for 2 tanks throughout the whole raid, there is no real reason to spec out whatsoever.

    I really wish people would stop trying to find holes in a system in order to moan about it *sigh*.
  1. Amerika's Avatar
    So what happens to a DPS that is trying to get a certain DPS item but happens to be the unlucky one with a tanking offspec and is chosen to do that role during the fight. How do they get they, the person who bit the bullet for the raid, end up getting rewarded? They end up with a +100 on their tanking roll I'm not saying I don't like the system but it is flawed when put into raid context (where it would be fine for 5 mans). I'm sure that will be a source of plenty of drama unless something is added where an offtank can state which item set they want before they pull the boss.
  1. Maklor's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Amerika View Post
    So what happens to a DPS that is trying to get a certain DPS item but happens to be the unlucky one with a tanking offspec and is chosen to do that role during the fight.
    Then just sign up as only DPS, you are not forced into some role - it's like the current LFG.

    I have serious hard time understanding how hard it is for people to grasp the concept of LFR.
  1. Felaful's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Brazinger View Post
    LFR uses the same system as LFD - You will be flagged for the role You selected, when queuing to the raid, for the entire duration of the specific raid.

    ---------- Post added 2011-10-09 at 01:45 AM ----------



    That would be the exact same system as the current system is, just with a different style... That won't stop ninjas - However, the system, they introduced, will.
    Yea this is just the other half of that need binds boe items system. That one will ensure people aren't needing boes just to sell them. This new one also ensures that even if a dps spec actually does need that tanking item for their tank spec, the primary listed tank in the group will get it first for the main spec.
  1. renegadeimp's Avatar
    Wow. it took them 7 years to fix the loot system, and they wont retrofit it to the entire game? Just their new shiny gimmicky raid? /facepalm
  1. grolschs's Avatar
    I told you. When blizzard thinks of a new system, its a good system.
  1. andy_mitchelluk's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Rushro View Post
    Or just don't let people who aren't in the proper role roll need.
    The advantage this system has is that now people CAN click need for offspec and if no one needs it for main spec there's 0% chance of it being disenchanted.

    I think this is a good solution and can't wait to see it in action.

    ---------- Post added 2011-10-10 at 12:22 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Howlrunner View Post
    You answered it yourself. You queued as a tank, your a tank. Whether you respec during is irrelevant. But seeing as there will probably be need for 2 tanks throughout the whole raid, there is no real reason to spec out whatsoever.

    I really wish people would stop trying to find holes in a system in order to moan about it *sigh*.
    To add to this, I recall seeing that LFR will automatically have a set number of tanks, healers and dps so there should NEVER bee a need for anyone to change spec mid-raid. (Not having a go at you, I understood what you were saying, just adding this!)
  1. Rotted's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Percolator View Post
    Interesting, however there could be a problem regarding certain items that are BiS for tanks and dps, for instance.
    This ^

    But over all its a good system and im more than willing to risk a tank rolling on a single item thay has a slight chance of being BiS for both of us. To date in fl im only aware of Beths mandiable being bis for dks and tanks, and I think that spell power axe is bis for enhance and resto isnt it? but besides that I dont think there are any more

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