MMO-Champion - Raid Finder Loot Rules Update
Raid Finder Loot Rules Update
Short version: When using Raid Finder for the Dragon Soul raid instance, players whose currently assigned class role (Tank, Healer, or Damage) matches the class role that a piece of armor or a weapon is flagged for will receive +100 to their Need roll.
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
In response to concerns regarding how loot will be distributed in the Raid Finder system, we are making some changes to how loot rolls will work when using the Need Before Greed system in the Raid Finder. When using Raid Finder for the Dragon Soul raid instance, players whose currently assigned class role (Tank, Healer, or Damage) matches the class role that a piece of armor or a weapon is flagged for will receive +100 to their Need roll. For purposes of this check, your currently assigned role is defined as the class role you have assigned when a boss is defeated. Sound confusing? I hope not, but here's how it'll work:

A boss dies and drops EPIC TANKING ITEM.


  • A mage in the group yawns and clicks the "Greed" button, getting a 98.

  • A Fury warrior in the group wants to take up tanking, so he rolls "Need" and gets a solid 64.

  • Both tanks want the item. Tank 1 rolls a 12, and Tank 2 rolls a 7.

So what happens?

Because the mage rolled greed, she's right out from the start. The Fury warrior's Need roll was higher than the tanks', but he was in the Damage Dealer role when the boss died, and the item is flagged for tanking, so his 64 is still just a 64 out of a possible 100. In contrast, Tank 1 and Tank 2 each get a 100 point bonus to their rolls because they were in the Tanking role when the boss died and they’re rolling on an item that has been flagged for the tanking role. That means that Tank 1 rolled a 112 out of 200, and tank 2 rolled a 107 out of 200. Tank 1 wins the item! If a roll got a bonus, that bonus will be clearly displayed in the chat log.

Please keep in mind that, at least for now, this system will only look at class role, and not player spec. This bonus isn't only for tanking items either – it applies to Tanking, Damage Dealing, and Healing items, and some items are flagged for more than one class role too. Starting out, only Dragon Soul raid items will be flagged for class roles in this way (though all of the items in the raid will be flagged for one or more roles). As you might expect, all the normal Need Before Greed rules are still in place, so that means that these roll bonuses won't overrule normal class and usability restrictions. Item tooltips in the raid won't reflect which class roles will get rolling bonuses, but it should be fairly obvious based on stat allocations and item type.

We are considering expanding this system to apply to the new 4.3 dungeons as well, though it is unlikely that we'll see the system apply to older dungeons or raids for now. Also, please keep in mind that this system is newly minted, and it may see further changes before it's released with the Raid Finder in patch 4.3.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Raid Finder Loot Rules Update started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 460 Comments
  1. Two Sheds's Avatar
    Raid finder sounded like a cool idea but I for one will not be using it just because of this bullshit. I'm not going to put up with some arbitrary system deciding what's useful for me and what isn't. I wouldn't care about this at all if I wasn't afraid of what might happen to 5-mans in the future as a consequence of idiots crying about loot when they clearly have no regard for other people but just their own selfish asses. You go in there and you roll for what you want is what it should be.
  1. Satan's Avatar
    Nice idea, now needing for offspec will be viable.

    Makes sence, since greed is for transmog/ah spec.
  1. Azrile's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalx View Post
    I wonder why not make a MS need button and a OS need button and make them available to the respective specs instead of this.. wouldn't a +100 be a guaranteed win? MS can roll 1 and OS roll 100, and MS will still win with 101. so there's not much point in that
    That is the point.. if the tank needs the item, there is no way a non-tank can win it, but it still allows the fury warrior (who can roll need) to always beat a mage who can only roll greed in the event that neither tank rolls need. In the past, the fury warrior had two options.... roll need against the tank (and risk getting kicked) or else roll greed and have to roll against people who are just going to vendor it. This system creates that layer in the middle that most players wanted.

    It will work out exactly the same as having a ´need for offspec´ button, but was probably a lot easier to implement since it required no UI work or really much effort at all.

    There are still going to be problems.. bear tanks, DK tank weapons to name a few... but they are limited items and their aren´t that many specs that would roll need against them.

    Good solution Blizzard
  1. Dachoson1's Avatar
    How will druid tank gear get put out? we are the same as like rouges and feral gear?
  1. Vallius's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Rustweaver View Post
    I think some of you are looking to far in to this when it comes to shared loot.

    Leather agility pieces will likely share the same modifier for Druids and Rogues so it remains the same as if it was just a standard 1 - 100 /roll. The same will likely be handled with cloth/leather caster DPS and healers where it will use the +100 modifier but simply function the same as a 1 - 100 /roll with the possible exception of +hit.

    Two handers will likely be fought over by a DK tank and DPS as was usually the case since stats such as Mastery (if there are 2H with mastery) is just as good for Ret Paladins as it it for Blood Death Knights.

    As a Feral Combat Druid, I've always had to contend with Bear tanks and Rogues for my DPS set (with the exception of when agility gear had +def/dodge up to tbc) so I suspect nothing will really change in that regard but it will make that Boomkin unable to win gear I use as my main spec.

    This will simply remedy the issue of having greedy players who want to gear their off spec over your main spec. The finer details will likely remain the same as they are now but with a +100 modifier for a much larger margin between rolls for those it applied to.

    Another benefit of this is that there is no reason for players to run it with their off spec due to availability since the tool does it all for you. No more threads of upset players who have been forced in to their off spec to raid or upset players who have lost gear to off spec players.
    This. The function of this new addition is to make you only worry about rolling against other specs. If it so happens that the class you're rolling against has a use for an item in multiple specs, well, that's gravy for them if that spec is DPS, but if that off-spec happens to be a healing or tanking spec, this will eliminate your worrying that someone will win the item for a spec they are not in. Really, this is a classy solution and I'm a huge fan of it.
  1. Spl4sh3r's Avatar
    First of all I bet people won't even see this post, but I will write it anyway! I see many people mention the Spirit gear, but has no real argument behind it. "Oh it's Spirit it's only for healers!", gear with Spirit is made for the healers class AND the caster spec for the same class who use spirit conversation talents. For example Leather Healing gear, how many classes do you actually think uses those? That's right, Restoration Druid and therefore Moonkins will have the Spirit conversation for all Leather gear out there to share those with Restoration Druids, this is also a reason why there aren't many Leather gear with stat allocation towards Hit Rating (other than Tier possibly). Now you think about Cloth Healers, how many are there? That's right only two specialization of one class (Priest) which is why they decided that Shadow should also be able to so the whole class is aiming for Spirit gear and let the Hit Rating go for the other two classes, Mages and Warlocks. (Yes, I am saying that Shadow Priest should not go for Hit Rating, but Spirit!). The same argument exist for Shamans aswell seeing how only one Mail specialization within one class needs Spirit they made so that the other caster role uses Spirit for Hit aswell. TL;DR: I would say that if you got Spirit Conversation to Hit Rating you should only aim for gear with Spirit (or no Spirit/Hit Rating at all on some specific pieces). Since that is the way your class was itemized around. I don't see why people are QQ'ing about it when you just look at how many are using each. It's more fight over those pieces who has neither Spirit or Hit Rating. Class Specs for items with Hit Rating = 6 Class Specs for items with Spirit = 8 Class Specs for items with neither: 14
  1. Bahska's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Dachoson1 View Post
    How will druid tank gear get put out? we are the same as like rouges and feral gear?
    Probably as thats what happens in a normal raid.
  1. Earl403's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Dachoson1 View Post
    How will druid tank gear get put out? we are the same as like rouges and feral gear?
    Druid tanks have always had to roll against rogues for their gear, and hunters for weapons. Why should it be different now?
  1. john67's Avatar
    Pretty much a great idea and the best they can do to try to keep loot issues to a minimum.

    Reduces ninjas and also allows people to need things for offspec without having to wait for all 24 other people to roll to see whether anyone needs it for main spec. I'm glad they managed to design this thing so quickly because a week or so ago a blue poster hinted it might not be possible to get a working loot system done for 4.3 LFR. Good to see they made it a priority.
  1. louandy2001's Avatar
    So let me get this though my head.

    So dps classes cant need on healing gear, I have a priest so they cant need on spirt cloth. If thats the case then I can see the change is going to do well. The only problem is with the trinkets, some say something along the lines like "healing and damage.........." how will that work??J

    ust hope that the put this in the LFG as well, when I do runs with people that I know try to get gear and they use it for OS, I do try and need on it aslo to help them out. Otherwise they would be healer/tank less and spend longer trying to find one.

    Be intresting to see how it will work.
  1. Astalnar's Avatar
    This is a fine and solid idea that I personaly agree with and suppport wholeheartedly. There is a few holes but that can be taken care of later. Such as 2h weapons for tanks and damage dealers. DK, retri palas and dps warriros come to my mind.
  1. PetersenIII's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Two Sheds View Post
    Raid finder sounded like a cool idea but I for one will not be using it just because of this bullshit. I'm not going to put up with some arbitrary system deciding what's useful for me and what isn't. I wouldn't care about this at all if I wasn't afraid of what might happen to 5-mans in the future as a consequence of idiots crying about loot when they clearly have no regard for other people but just their own selfish asses. You go in there and you roll for what you want is what it should be.
    So, you're not going to use the LFR because it has a system implemented to 'protect' people from those who 'clearly have no regard for other people but just their own selfish asses'?

    /boggle
  1. helheim's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    That is the point.. if the tank needs the item, there is no way a non-tank can win it, but it still allows the fury warrior (who can roll need) to always beat a mage who can only roll greed in the event that neither tank rolls need. In the past, the fury warrior had two options.... roll need against the tank (and risk getting kicked) or else roll greed and have to roll against people who are just going to vendor it. This system creates that layer in the middle that most players wanted.

    It will work out exactly the same as having a ´need for offspec´ button, but was probably a lot easier to implement since it required no UI work or really much effort at all.

    There are still going to be problems.. bear tanks, DK tank weapons to name a few... but they are limited items and their aren´t that many specs that would roll need against them.

    Good solution Blizzard
    and weapons with spirit. and cloth with spirit. as it can be reforged to hit for derp locks and mages in 359s as 397 stats will be superior in every way over jp 359s. not a good solution, but a small step in the right direction. still leaves boomkin, spriest, ele shaman, h pally, holy/disc priests, resto shaman, warlocks and mages potentially fighting for gear that they shouldn't be - examples of items that will be difficult to classify as tank/healer/dps only: trinkets, rings, necks, weapons, offhands, wrists, belts, boots, etc.
  1. Vallius's Avatar
    Also, keep in mind they are flagging each item for it's respective role. In the case of the "spirit gear" debate, I would imagine that if said item drops and both want it, it's going to be up to Blizzard to decided which class/spec that item is best for.
  1. Durandro's Avatar
    So long as you can't Need on an item you already have, this should work just fine. Sure, it might take a few weeks for DPS to start getting tank gear, but then you should have lower priority anyway since its an offspec.
  1. deathwish5's Avatar
    So I was going to write up a long summary of my opinion then came to the conclusion. I honestly dont give a F**K how the loot works as I won't be using it.
  1. Ealyssa's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Earl403 View Post
    Druid tanks have always had to roll against rogues for their gear, and hunters for weapons. Why should it be different now?
    This, plate tank have 2 other class to roll against. Bear just one (and the least played one).
  1. Cernunnos's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Syrae View Post
    People that think like this: DPS warrior needs 2Hander, Blood tank needs 2Hander. Blood tank gets+100. Thats wrong. Items can be flagged for multi roles. So nobody gets+100 then. Only when a tank shield drops tanks get+100 as example. Bears are screwed then though because hunters need their pole arms and rogues need their gear
    2 handers are MS for Blood DKs
    2 handers are MS for Warriors
    2 handers are MS for Ret Paladins.

    There is no change here.

    The same goes for your Rogue vs Feral Druid on gear, both use leather both get +100
    The same goes for oyur Hunter vs Feral Druid, both use polearms for the MS, both get +100

    This system seems to be designed for the other 80% of loot drops.
    -The Tank rolling offspec and winning the roll over the Melee DPS MS, who doesnt even have the item yet
    -The DPS rolling offspec and winning the roll over the tanks MS, who doesnt even have the item yet (how many plate DPS rolled on H Leaden Dispear in Stonecore so they wouldnt have to tank stonecore to try and get the trinket?)
    -The healer rolling offspec and winning the roller over the DPS, who doesnt even have the item yet
    The Hybrid DPS rolling offspec and winning the roll over the healer, who doesnt even have the item yet



    Now instead of screwing people out of their Ms rolls it screws them out of their Os rolls, lol.
    Plate DPS MS have a bonus over plate tanks
    Plate tanks have a bonus over Plate DPS MS


    People are still going to have the GS/item level bias they always have, people dont like undergeared tanks/healers or DPS in their runs. So people would queue as the roll they had the better gear for and roll offspec. Which lead to many a arguement over "QUEUE FOR THE DAMN JOB IF YOU WANNA ROLL ON THAT LOOT MY MS>YOUR OS", which is why this new system was made.

    It gives those who queued as the job the item is designed for an advantage over those who didnt. It allows people to gear up their MS faster, as they cant be out rolled by people rolling OS, which is good, but means people take a little longer to gear up their OS, which is fine, it's their OS.


    How many of you have complained your tanks in LFD were undergeared yet willingly rolled OS over the tanks MS and won the roll on the loot thus keeping said tank from gearing up? I've seen my share of Warriors DKs and Paladins rolling on tank trinkets for their OS my tanks dont even have for my MS yet.
  1. Lucetia's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalx View Post
    I wonder why not make a MS need button and a OS need button and make them available to the respective specs instead of this.. wouldn't a +100 be a guaranteed win? MS can roll 1 and OS roll 100, and MS will still win with 101. so there's not much point in that
    Essentially they did make a main spec and off spec button. Just this was probably less program than adding an additional button and greying out main spec for some. Basically if it's your off spec you get 1-100. If it's your main spec you get 101-200.
  1. markdall's Avatar
    This sounds incredible. Next step: You don't get to roll need on role/class flagged item X if your character has the same role/class flagged item - same item type - of higher iLvl. Looking at you, douchey warriors rolling need on everything the LFD lets you in ZA/ZG when you clearly outgear it all already and have no actual need of anything but gold. (Ruffrider guild on US-Destromath, I'm calling you out specifically.)

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