Sneak Peek: Guardian Cub Tradable Pet

Originally Posted by Gilian

This also has nothing to do with goldfarmers. It's about Blizzard giving the players to get a pretty steady income by paying real money. If they add more of these things you will see what will happen. If you ever played a F2P MMO with an online store and all that crap you know what can happen.

That's awesome. I love this post. It's P.T. Barnum in the age of the Internet, really. "Pretty steady income"?! Hahaha! Oh, you have me rolling.

There are probably going to be a few people who make some in-game gold off of these, but the laws of supply and demand say that there must be more people who will lose out pretty hugely on this. Think about it, what are there more of: players that want a cute pet or players that want lots of gold? If there are more of one group (and I think there are an order of magnitude more) than the other group has the advantage in the marketplace. That will drive the price way, way down as these things flood the AH. They won't have a sell value to vendors, so 1 copper is the lowest price someone can sell them for and make a "profit"... I suggest you'll see one of these sell for 100g before the first month they're up for sale, and it will be from some poor kid that first listed it for 20,000g, thinking he was about to be able to afford that nice item he'd always wanted, but wasn't able to get because he doesn't do dailies.

Originally Posted by ssviolett

ol good trust in truth ye ? ThereIsNoHackInWow. And have you ever heard about account stealing ?
Gold selling = you pay real money ---> get solid gold.
Blizzard selling = you pay real money ----(trying to sell item on AH for days, due to colossal amount of people trying to sell it)---> get solid gold. Quite different ye ?

---------- Post added 2011-10-12 at 10:17 AM ----------


... this guy is mad for sure.

You apparently don't see the ridiculous prices on the AH for items that are not worth it but are that high because players can pay for it because everyone has ridiculous amounts of gold.
New players have no chance at all to level a profession without buying gold or having a lot of knowledge about how to make gold (playing AH). Doing dailies in WotLK, when I played, was nearly pointless goldwise. You got so little compared to prices and amounts players had. The only way to make gold that was worth my time was playing the AH with ridiculous amounts of materials and items.

No one here even gave a reason why it's different that

Blizzard selling = you pay real money ----(trying to sell item on AH for days, due to colossal amount of people trying to sell it)---> get solid gold.

instead of Blizzard selling = you pay real money and you get solid gold.

---------- Post added 2011-10-12 at 02:24 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Deepone

That's awesome. I love this post. It's P.T. Barnum in the age of the Internet, really. "Pretty steady income"?! Hahaha! Oh, you have me rolling.

There are probably going to be a few people who make some in-game gold off of these, but the laws of supply and demand say that there must be more people who will lose out pretty hugely on this. Think about it, what are there more of: players that want a cute pet or players that want lots of gold? If there are more of one group (and I think there are an order of magnitude more) than the other group has the advantage in the marketplace. That will drive the price way, way down as these things flood the AH. They won't have a sell value to vendors, so 1 copper is the lowest price someone can sell them for and make a "profit"... I suggest you'll see one of these sell for 100g before the first month they're up for sale, and it will be from some poor kid that first listed it for 20,000g, thinking he was about to be able to afford that nice item he'd always wanted, but wasn't able to get because he doesn't do dailies.

Yes, not with one pet. Maybe next year with 10 pets.

Because,

1. people are going to buy pets for $10 with the intent to sell them for gold when they can't even sell it for 100 gold;

2. there aren't plenty of people with too much gold that rather pay 20k gold than $10.


Well, we will see what happens.

WTB ingame time tokens for gold

Originally Posted by Gilian

Because you really have to be a sucker to pay 10k gold for an item that's worth $10. People pay $10 for 10k gold already so why not pay it for an item that's worth $10?

Your logic escapes me. I think you just made my point, though. Yes, hundreds of people per faction/realm will buy these in order to re-sell them. HUNDREDS on your auction house alone. The first one will list for 20k. The next one will list for a bit less. The next one will say, “hey I want this to go fast, I’ll list it for 10k!” The next one will … yeah, and by the time it’s over, they sell for 100g because there just aren’t all that many people lined up around the block to buy. In the first few minutes (literally, minutes) I suspect some folks will make good coin, but within an hour or two the prices MIUST stabilize at a level that makes at least half the people who would have bought one of these to re-sell, think twice and not do it. Unless the sale price is discouraging, there will be more who will want to “get in on it”... that’s how supply and demand works.

But—and I can’t stress this enough—none of this matters to the point that this is “gold selling” by any other name. There is no gold being added to the game. None. Zero. Zip. Nada.

You haven't heard have you? Many people are already at gold cap, it doesn't matter anymore if there would be added more gold in the wow economy or not. The problem is that people who have $10 to spend on cubs have an advantage just like people can and want to pay $10 for 10k gold.

Some of those folks are my friends, so yeah, I know. That doesn’t matter. Most people who have lots of gold have bought what they wanted to buy and the gold isn’t interesting to them anymore. They horde it, but really have no use for it.

If you’re buying gold from a gold seller, then you do so explicitly because it has a value to you, which means you’re going to spend it. The way economies work, adding currency to a system adds inflation. There are some number of Sword of Truth that the economy is worth, and that’s it. It never changes unless you add demand for new Swords of Truth (using that as a placeholder for everything everyone wants to buy). Add players or add an in-game reason to need something and you change the size of the economy, creating deflation. Add currency like gold and you do not change the size of the economy, only the value of the currency, and thus inflation.

At worst, adding this item will create a small amount of deflation, which can only be good for players.

The problem is that you never know what will sell and what won't sell. You can guess but you never know. Especially with these kind of items.

There are two options: a) there is enough demand to fuel a certain number of resellers b) there is essentially no demand. Both of them have about the same effect on the economy: very little.

One pet is also not a problem but it's the start of a trend that can become a problem.

There are only two ways to make it a problem: make the item something you need to progress (e.g. selling access to content or gear ala DDO) or selling gold. Nothing else will have any real impact.

Originally Posted by Gilian

The problem is that people who have $10 to spend on cubs have an advantage just like people can and want to pay $10 for 10k gold.

Yeah, people allready pay $10 for gold, so the pet doesn't actually change anything. Except maybe fewer compromised accounts, which means less work for Blizzard, and less stolen gold sold by gold-sellers.

Originally Posted by Gilian

One pet is also not a problem but it's the start of a trend that can become a problem.

PCT was that trend.
PvE-PvP transfers was that trend.
Race/Faction change was that trend.
Pet store mounts were that trend.
Pet store pets were that trend.

It's been more than 4 years now, I still don't see the problem......

Originally Posted by Idoru

Yeah, people allready pay $10 for gold, so the pet doesn't actually change anything. Except maybe fewer compromised accounts, which means less work for Blizzard, and less stolen gold sold by gold-sellers.

PCT was that trend.
PvE-PvP transfers was that trend.
Race/Faction change was that trend.
Pet store mounts were that trend.
Pet store pets were that trend.

It's been more than 4 years now, I still don't see the problem......

Certain types of people seldom do see the problem until its too late. Next quarter? We'll see.

Originally Posted by Shmiles

In what tier has the majority of my slots been filled with BoEs? Oh wait, never has that happened. BoEs and craftables cover the majority of your gear slots if you don't raid or its the first few weeks after a content patch is released.

Longer than that. Especially in 10 mans. You didn't get to exalted firelands rep in a few weeks, or 4 piece tier. Heck, I'm doing 6/7 heroic firelands each week and I still use a BoE weapon and shield, and crafted boots. My alt is still covered in BoEs/crafted gear.

If your "line" is that it's OK if you can't buy the absolute best gear with real money, then it's not a "line" at all. You just don't really care. Please admit it.

Actually, though, I remember that a guildie paid a lot of gold to get the Alliance-first Rag firebird on my server (he paid the winner of the roll). You conveniently ignored the fact that you can use gold to pay for runs (and pay the winner of a roll). Outside of heroic Rag, it's currently very easy to carry some dead weight.

So, gold to buy BoEs / craftables when the tier is new, then gold to pay for runs and the best drops later. That covers about everything.

Originally Posted by Cows For Life

Certain types of people seldom do see the problem until its too late. Next quarter? We'll see.

Sure, we'll see.
As I've been saying many times, I have been waiting for more than 4 years. I can easily wait 4 more.

But—and I can’t stress this enough—none of this matters to the point that this is “gold selling” by any other name. There is no gold being added to the game. None. Zero. Zip. Nada.

It makes no difference wether new gold is being added to the game or not, someone is using their financial wealth to gain an advantage in the game. I dont think thats fair or right.

Blizzard know that the pet will be sold for in game gold else why sell it this way? So they think the gold price will be enough to make it worth while regardless of your thoeries.

Originally Posted by Attsey

But—and I can’t stress this enough—none of this matters to the point that this is “gold selling” by any other name. There is no gold being added to the game. None. Zero. Zip. Nada.

It makes no difference wether new gold is being added to the game or not, someone is using their financial wealth to gain an advantage in the game. I dont think thats fair or right.

Blizzard know that the pet will be sold for in game gold else why sell it this way? So they think the gold price will be enough to make it worth while regardless of your thoeries.

Just don't allow it to be posted on the AH, then you at least have to Trade Channel it away, sure still will work, but only a few really rabid gold farmers will probably do it consistently.
No matter how you look at it, buying a token of gold (I will call it for a point) or gold itself is still the same. Just the value of the token fluctuates, this is still gold selling for real world money. It just has 1 added piece of value of being able to forgo the conversion to gold and be converted to a pet. Still a gold token as long as it can be traded and sold.

---------- Post added 2011-10-12 at 04:35 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Idoru

People are paying a lot more to pollute their body with tobacco and alcohol .... Pathetic.

And by the way, how long have you been playing games ? How much money have you been spending on games ? In 50 years how ridiculous will you look ?

Ok.. I get that real world money is constantly used for "Entertainment" that is fleeting. But intangible add ons to games avatars I find completely useless. It's a strange compelling, almost OCD drive that makes people want all these things in the first place. But paying $10 for add-ons to a game that don't really ad more than 3 seconds of entertainment value is really a pretty compelling social issue. (I clicked on it, it appeared, Hey that looks neat... fogotten by the next day) Worth $10?? Maybe... but I don't get it. More power to you if you do.

have blizzard ever considered to make the pet store ingame, i mean so there will be a pet store for World of Warcraft in SW and OG that you could buy directly ingame with real money, by setting op a payment system, paypal maybe... could be very cool if they could do that

Originally Posted by Deepone

Your logic escapes me. I think you just made my point, though. Yes, hundreds of people per faction/realm will buy these in order to re-sell them. HUNDREDS on your auction house alone. The first one will list for 20k. The next one will list for a bit less. The next one will say, “hey I want this to go fast, I’ll list it for 10k!” The next one will … yeah, and by the time it’s over, they sell for 100g because there just aren’t all that many people lined up around the block to buy. In the first few minutes (literally, minutes) I suspect some folks will make good coin, but within an hour or two the prices MIUST stabilize at a level that makes at least half the people who would have bought one of these to re-sell, think twice and not do it. Unless the sale price is discouraging, there will be more who will want to “get in on it”... that’s how supply and demand works.

But—and I can’t stress this enough—none of this matters to the point that this is “gold selling” by any other name. There is no gold being added to the game. None. Zero. Zip. Nada.



Some of those folks are my friends, so yeah, I know. That doesn’t matter. Most people who have lots of gold have bought what they wanted to buy and the gold isn’t interesting to them anymore. They horde it, but really have no use for it.

If you’re buying gold from a gold seller, then you do so explicitly because it has a value to you, which means you’re going to spend it. The way economies work, adding currency to a system adds inflation. There are some number of Sword of Truth that the economy is worth, and that’s it. It never changes unless you add demand for new Swords of Truth (using that as a placeholder for everything everyone wants to buy). Add players or add an in-game reason to need something and you change the size of the economy, creating deflation. Add currency like gold and you do not change the size of the economy, only the value of the currency, and thus inflation.

At worst, adding this item will create a small amount of deflation, which can only be good for players.



There are two options: a) there is enough demand to fuel a certain number of resellers b) there is essentially no demand. Both of them have about the same effect on the economy: very little.



There are only two ways to make it a problem: make the item something you need to progress (e.g. selling access to content or gear ala DDO) or selling gold. Nothing else will have any real impact.

Your logic escapes me. Why would someone sell the cub for 100 gold. It's better to just wait for the demand to go up instead of wasting your $10 on 100 gold. Yes, prices have to stabilize at some point but not at 100g. It's seriously makes no sense at all. Even if demand is very low people will still pay 10k gold (especially when they have plenty of gold) for a pet when they know the only other way to get it is to buy it for $10.
Your logic on supply and demand, prices get ridiculously low compared to the costs the seller had, will only happen when the seller has serious problems like going bankrupt or his product is going to be outdated/worthless. But in this case that's not going to happen. The pet will ALWAYS be worth $10. It doesn't matter if you think it's not worth that, it's what people payed for and what other people are willing to pay for it.

And you just made my point. They have no use for their gold because they have so much. So demand will be high.

Goldsellers don't add money to the game either so I guess it should be legal since it has, according to you, no impact on the game. Goldsellers buy gold from players and sell it for more to other players (maybe something your friends can do to make some money). Or they hack accounts and take all your gold and items to sell. Both those activities don't add gold to the game but are illegal. Hacking is for very obvious reasons illegal. Buying and reselling gold isn't obvious illegal and according to you has no impact on the game because no gold is added.

You can't see that for example new or casual players who don't have high amounts of gold have to resort to buying gold or other things to make enough gold to accomplish certain things in the game? You can't just do some daily quests and buy the things you need and level your professions. It would take way too long to make that kind of gold in that way. That shows that prices are too high. It also means that buying cubs and reselling them for gold is a good advantage for players who don't have massive amounts of gold. It also takes away a part of the game how it is meant to be played just like goldselling does.
And like I said it's only one pet now but when more items come into play they will have more chances to make money. If I was gold capped I would buy all those items instead of spending real money, why wouldn't I?

p.s. How did I make your point? You say prices will drop very low. I said they won't. I don't see how I made your point. Maybe you didn't understand that first quote of you was sarcastic. I meant you don't have to be a sucker to pay 10k for an item that's worth $10 because people already do this only in a different order. Pay real money > get item > get gold instead of pay real money > get gold > get item.

@Idoru

Yeah, people allready pay $10 for gold, so the pet doesn't actually change anything. Except maybe fewer compromised accounts, which means less work for Blizzard, and less stolen gold sold by gold-sellers.

Except that this is legal so more people will do it.

Originally Posted by Gilian

@Idoru

Except that this is legal

Blizzard can't stop the illegal gold sellers. If you claim otherwise, I'm going to call you naive.

So, they are offering a secure way for people to do what they are already doing. By doing this they will (most likely) have to use less resources on restoring compromised accounts, since (most likely) fewer people will be tempted to use illegal services.

I know some of you will say "F the gold buyers", but Blizzard can't do that...... No, they can't!

Originally Posted by Gilian

so more people will do it.

The market for this pet will be limited, even with the one character limitation. So we won't have hundreds of people making thousands of gold.

I know your reply will be "but this is just the first step". And you may be right. But here's the thing..... Majority rule! This is what people want.

You may not agree with it. You may not like it. But that is how it works!

So, you have two options.

1. Keep complaining, which won't change anything as long as enough people are willing to spend real money.
2. Let your wallet do the talking.

Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero

But here's the difference....there is absolutely no guarantee you will get a mount or mini-pet from a pack. This is guaranteed. there is no chance involved. It's not rare. Anyone can buy it then sell it. That's why it is exactly like gold selling.

But that is the thing, its NOT rare nor will it ever be. Do you really believe people who think like you and say "OH LEGAL GOLD BUYING HUZZAH!" Aren't going to jump on this? I don't know about your server but on mine you couldn't take 2 steps without seeing a glitter farting sparkle pony or glow in the dark neon disco lion at every turn. As with every thing found on the blizzard store. Supply and demand, that is what this boils down too... if people are really so dense to believe they are going to "buy legal gold" from blizzard well I feel sorry for them. There is no way that the AH will not be flooded with them, and with each new listing the price drops. To much supply its going to drop dramatically. It "Could" be expensive at first but I do not seriously expect it to hold out for long if at all.

Originally Posted by Idoru

Blizzard can't stop the illegal gold sellers. If you claim otherwise, I'm going to call you naive.

So, they are offering a secure way for people to do what they are already doing. By doing this they will (most likely) have to use less resources on restoring compromised accounts, since (most likely) fewer people will be tempted to use illegal services.

I know some of you will say "F the gold buyers", but Blizzard can't do that...... No, they can't!



The market for this pet will be limited, even with the one character limitation. So we won't have hundreds of people making thousands of gold.

I know your reply will be "but this is just the first step". And you may be right. But here's the thing..... Majority rule! This is what people want.

You may not agree with it. You may not like it. But that is how it works!

So, you have two options.

1. Keep complaining, which won't change anything as long as enough people are willing to spend real money.
2. Let your wallet do the talking.

They can't stop it but they did and I guess still do try to. People get banned for buying gold. If they won't get banned more people will do it. It's pretty simple.
I've had a guildmember/friend in TBC that was banned because he bought a small amount of gold years ago. If you hear that you don't think of buying gold ever again.

And you are naive for thinking that "the majority" wants this. Blizzard wants this because they want to make money. The majority also wants to be able to kill Ragnaros HC but that would mean Blizzard would lose money in subs if everyone would be able to do it.
Besides how do you know if it's the majority?

I am not complaining, I am discussing. And I really don't care because I don't play anymore. I am just here for the sake of discussing and my interests (of what path WoW is going/games in general). I am not discussing to make Blizzard change things. I am not even discussing it with Blizzard and I am not even on their official forum.
Obviously it's not going to change when Blizzard is making money of it and as long as they don't get trolled like with the forum real ID thing. If no one had done anything back then they would have implemented it.
I also don't think a lot of people will complain because the majority has massive amounts of gold and they don't care if new players suffer from this or take advantage from it. And the people who do take advantage of this won't complain either.

p.s. The "majority" can also be wrong. They will get what they want IF Blizzard agrees but that doesn't mean it's good for the game.

---------- Post added 2011-10-13 at 11:42 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Keristrasza

But that is the thing, its NOT rare nor will it ever be. Do you really believe people who think like you and say "OH LEGAL GOLD BUYING HUZZAH!" Aren't going to jump on this? I don't know about your server but on mine you couldn't take 2 steps without seeing a glitter farting sparkle pony or glow in the dark neon disco lion at every turn. As with every thing found on the blizzard store. Supply and demand, that is what this boils down too... if people are really so dense to believe they are going to "buy legal gold" from blizzard well I feel sorry for them. There is no way that the AH will not be flooded with them, and with each new listing the price drops. To much supply its going to drop dramatically. It "Could" be expensive at first but I do not seriously expect it to hold out for long if at all.

Doh, there is a limited demand because they are not consumables. You buy it once and you will always have it. That doesn't make it better. If sellers are smart they won't drop prices and buy a good amount of pets from the store so they don't lose real money.

I also doubt the AH will be flooded. There are a lot of people who don't need gold. Those people will also wait till the people with barely any gold and a lot of real money will put them up.

I really want to see how this turns out with only one item like this.

Originally Posted by Gilian

They can't stop it but they did and I guess still do try to. People get banned for buying gold. If they won't get banned more people will do it. It's pretty simple.
I've had a guildmember/friend in TBC that was banned because he bought a small amount of gold years ago. If you hear that you don't think of buying gold ever again.

And we had members who repeatedly, even within the last year, bought gold even though they knew the risk. And not one of them got banned, or even a warning. Knowing "someone" doesn't prove anything.

Originally Posted by Gilian

And you are naive for thinking that "the majority" wants this. Blizzard wants this because they want to make money. The majority also wants to be able to kill Ragnaros HC but that would mean Blizzard would lose money in subs if everyone would be able to do it.
Besides how do you know if it's the majority?

Common sense, and a broader view on what's going on in the gaming business. Blizzard aren't the only ones doing this. If people didn't want this then it wouldn't be profitable to do it.
When I say that people "want" I don't mean that they have been asking for it. But they are willing to pay, which is all that matters.

Originally Posted by Gilian

Blizzard wants this because they want to make money.

By that logic we should have had epics for cash a long time ago. I can't think of anything that would make more money.

Originally Posted by ssviolett

OMG how you guys can not understand - it is NOT gold selling. Gold selling = creating amounts of gold from nowhere, this wont ruin economy at all - imagine that you got this pet in loot and sold it. This is simple way to get some gold for people who prefer to spent 10$ instead of 10hours farming.

With your logic the "gold spammers" in tradechat does not sell gold either. They didn't create the gold, they farmed it, stole it or by being smart using Ah.

Originally Posted by Poinen

With your logic the "gold spammers" in tradechat does not sell gold either. They didn't create the gold, they farmed it, stole it or by being smart using Ah.

And by any logic Blizzard can't be gold sellers because 1) they don't steal gold from players, and 2) they don't magically spawn gold when ever someone buys this pet.

Originally Posted by Idoru

And by any logic Blizzard can't be gold sellers because 1) they don't steal gold from players, and 2) they don't magically spawn gold when ever someone buys this pet.

It is a misnomer that gold sellers "steal" gold. Quite often they use farmers to sell to them, so they can jack the price up in real world money a little and sell it back. Or they use the in game rules to make gold the "legal" way.

Actually, if this pet has a vendor value of anything, they are magically spawning the capability of magically appearing gold. Would be cost effective to buy 10,000 of these to buy 100g at vendor value? No, but, IF it vendors, they are magically spawning currency.

And hence we have 37 pages of QQ'ing about "if...."