Statistics: Firelands Changes Impact, Pumpkin Carving Contest, Fan Art

less than 3000 people out of million completing current "hard" content? Less than 150k clearnign current "noob" content. yeah, this is why i quit the game. 11 million people, and not even 10% can complete the current content, hell thats less than 1% of players completeing the raid content. exact reason i quit, i pay to raid, not to sit around in cities complaining about how BS the difficulty is on current content and go run the original 3 over and over

Originally Posted by Todgruppe

Would be the case if this data was account based, not character based.

Would be a valid argument if I said players instead of "sample set" of characters.

Originally Posted by Ap0calypse

Just shows that Rag heroic needs more nerfs, probably when 4.3 is released, not that many people will bother to go back just to kill him though. Barely anyone will bother with Firelands since LFR will be released, and will only work with Dragonsoul :S Also Shaman least represented class for Rag Heroic lol

Well Shamans are the 3rd least played or the 8th most played class depending on you point of view, only behind Warlocks and Rogues. So it's not all that surprising, these numbers aren't definitive by any means without knowing how many are alts. Remember it only goes by achievements and I know someone that has 3 toons that have cleared normal and 2 have cleared heroic so far. Alt runs skew the numbers in these measurements and without the numbers that Blizzard has, meaning how many main toons cleared the content, we will never know with a certainty.

If anything your Hybrid counterparts fill their roles better. Druids have amazing heals and Balance which is blowing it up right now. Paladins have great heals and tanking. Priests have great healing and dps right now. Shamans do good dps/heals, but I think it still relates more to the percentage played and how fun the classes are or aren't, which also heavily effects alt choices. That can tend to skew numbers and make shamans seem underrepresented.

Informational! I am really getting sick of this rule 64, "stick some of a character's features on a generic anime girl" bullshit.

Many people down end-boss on Heroic: GG Blizz you're ruining the game, catering to casuals! Heroic modes are supposed to be hard!

Not many people down end-boss on Heroic: GG Blizz you're ruining the game, catering to the top 0.1%! I'm paying for this content!

Meanwhile people just forget there's a Normal mode over 30% of raiders cleared pre-nerfs. The whole goddamn point of this system is to let "regular people" clear it on Normal and let people who want to head-butt a wall for a few months enjoy a challenge. Why is this so hard for people to grasp?

Originally Posted by Kaeleena

Then I'm not obligated to pay a monthly payment and I'll find a game that will allow me to see all content is released and your game will die. See how that works?

The 99.92% of people that are unable to kill Heroic Ragnaros that are paying for the development costs of Heroic Ragnaros aren't going to appreciate not being able to see Heroic Ragnaros.

Hardcore MMOs are doomed to failure because they only attract a tiny fraction of players.

This is just utter bullshit. WoW has become nothing BUT more accessible to people as time has gone on. The lack of progression raiding, the 'leave no-one behind' badge systems, having to have a separate raiding difficulty just to keep hard bosses in the game (because everyone's entitled to clear a tier of raiding, right!).

Not only that but your demands are so utterly vague; what portion of the population should be able to kill HC Ragnaros then? 30%? 50%? 75%? They're all paying for it after all, right? You seriously believe a boss tuned to be killable by the majority of the population to offer any sort of challenge to people who even know how to gem and reforge their character? I'm sure all those people who have nothing to do for another six months until another major patch will keep their subscriptions going. For sure.

Originally Posted by Kaeleena

Then I'm not obligated to pay a monthly payment and I'll find a game that will allow me to see all content is released and your game will die. See how that works?

The 99.92% of people that are unable to kill Heroic Ragnaros that are paying for the development costs of Heroic Ragnaros aren't going to appreciate not being able to see Heroic Ragnaros.

Hardcore MMOs are doomed to failure because they only attract a tiny fraction of players.

A tiny fraction of the players = Most popular MMO in the market? I guess they are doing it wrong after all.

Originally Posted by Firebert

Would be a valid argument if I said players instead of "sample set" of characters.

You're commenting on a poor representation, unless sarcasm is intended. Because the data is skewed in such a way that "only 10%" have downed, the whole "tier is too hard" is a bad basis for argument. If you where to compare T11 Raid stats vs T12 would be better as guilds downing bosses is down 48%. This is not saying 48% of WoW quit, but 48% of raider are missing, and to break it down more of that the most significant drop off was T11 10M -> T12 10M(97.3% 25M vs 57.1% 10M). Even this data could be misrepresent quite easily.

Originally Posted by dotSeed

Meanwhile people just forget there's a Normal mode over 30% of raiders cleared pre-nerfs.

Where's your proof of this?

I agree that WoW has become more accessible, but Cataclysm was a step backwards. And I personally believe that Heroic Rag shouldn't be seen by only the top 0.5% of the raiding population, just like Gladiator is awarded. I mean, 31% success rate on Baleroc, 2% success rate on Ragnaros. It makes a pretty S curve. But I think a 10 to 20% success rate would be better, if only for the statistics.

Ewwww Anime fan art What? Heroic Ragnaros? Wasn't even going to see it anyway. Don't care. But they shouldn't make the encounters different aesthetically, let us see his legs pls?

Originally Posted by Todgruppe

You're commenting on a poor representation, unless sarcasm is intended. Because the data is skewed in such a way that "only 10%" have downed, the whole "tier is too hard" is a bad basis for argument. If you where to compare T11 Raid stats vs T12 would be better as guilds downing bosses is down 48%. This is not saying 48% of WoW quit, but 48% of raider are missing, and to break it down more of that the most significant drop off was T11 10M -> T12 10M(97.3% 25M vs 57.1% 10M). Even this data could be misrepresent quite easily.

This data is very difficult to handle as it is not a complete set, and is character based and not player based. I understand this. I was trying to make an argument that a player with a server full of level 85s could still be a player that hasn't downed Heroic Rag, and that a player with only 1 level 85 could have downed Heroic Rag.

Skewy is skewy. But I'm still quite happy with "95% of level 85s haven't killed Ragnaros Normal, he's still too difficult". Even though that's not my problem with raids.

Originally Posted by Canbie

My point is yes most players are bad at raiding. Blizz either need to tune the encounters accordingly or teach people how to raid.

Latter. The encounters in regular Firelands do not have difficult mechanics to master. But the huge amount of people who can't even manage to avoid the slow missile damage in the Heroic ZG Jin'do fight proves that some people are completely unable to comprehend to move to avoid damage. And in a lot of Firelands fights, there are many "move or die" things. Which really, Blizzard shouldn't remove.

Would be intresting to see a 10 vs 25 hc comparisation aswell. Even tho alot less guilds are doing 25-man nowdays.

Originally Posted by Rural

I sign this petition

Why would you buy and continue to subscribe to the fucking game?

You casuals are so stupid.

Durr, let me play this game which clearly outlines what the game offers........Oh, I don't have the intelligence to play this game? That's not my fault, that is Blizzard's fault. Let me cry like a little girl.

Infracted.

I think these stats totally vindicate Blizzard's decision to nerf the content.

Pre-nerf, less than 1% of the players had killed Ragnaros Normal. Only about 0.02% (one in 5000!) had killed Ragnaros Heroic. Now that number has doubled, so 2% of the players have killed him on normal and 0.05% have killed him


Yet there are people here who are still complaining that they made it too easy?!?

If you are one of the people who is arguing that players who can't beat Ragnaros are "bad players", you have either become dissociated from reality, or are intentionally trolling. Its a bit like saying someone who has never won Wimbledon is a bad tennis player.

Its called perspective people. There are a lot of good WoW players out there. There are also a lot of exceptional WoW players out there. They are the 2% who have downed Ragnaros normal. The people who actually kill Ragnaros heroic are exceptional even amongst the exceptional.

If you are in any of these elite groups it probably means that you devote the kind of time to a computer game that most normal people simply do not have the luxury to spend. Calling someone useless and belittling them because they can *only* spend 20 hours a week playing the game is rude. Period.

Originally Posted by Bound4Earth

That can tend to skew numbers and make shamans seem underrepresented.

Rogues and mages, though, are pure dps classes, while shaman can heal and dps. And despite that, shaman representation is lower than the other two classes...

Originally Posted by Bluesparks75

I don't have the intelligence to play this game?

That's hardly fair on casuals. Raid access is a great problem at the moment (hence the Raid Finder in 4.3), as well as difficulty. I'm pretty sure that casuals don't find ZA/ZG difficult.

Originally Posted by Firebert

Where's your proof of this?

I agree that WoW has become more accessible, but Cataclysm was a step backwards. And I personally believe that Heroic Rag shouldn't be seen by only the top 0.5% of the raiding population, just like Gladiator is awarded. I mean, 31% success rate on Baleroc, 2% success rate on Ragnaros. It makes a pretty S curve. But I think a 10 to 20% success rate would be better, if only for the statistics.

It's the only way to keep people who need a challenge, yes need, playing without upsetting people like you. But yet you are here complaining about one boss out of 14 bosses (7 normal and 7 hardmode).

All these people have is bashing their heads against one boss that hey already cleared on normal for weeks. Yet people have the guts to complain that it's too hard and everyone should be able to kill him on hardmode. Like you don't have plenty of other things that are accessible enough.

10-20% sounds good to you but it's way too high. Those 10-20% will have nothing to do for several months other than farming and since when is that fun?

Having a tiered progression like in TBC with nerfs like they made now in Firelands over time would be much better. This way people don't have to complain every tier about not being able to "see" content.


If they would have made LK HC (or ICC hardmodes in general) as accessible as you want it to be then they would have lost way more people even before Cataclysm.
I really don't get it. You can see the nearly exact same fight on normal. The only thing you get from killing them on hardmode is seeing 2 or 3 mechanics and the exact same gear but a few ilvls higher. If you can't even let better or more active players have that...

youtube.com/watch?v=yKIiUsbOO24

1:27 in

This pretty much covers all of the 'omg, too hard' arguments.And I'm not awesome, only 5/7 heroic but realise that the above pretty much covers Blizz's intent.

Originally Posted by Raelbo

I think these stats totally vindicate Blizzard's decision to nerf the content.

Pre-nerf, less than 1% of the players had killed Ragnaros Normal. Only about 0.02% (one in 5000!) had killed Ragnaros Heroic. Now that number has doubled, so 2% of the players have killed him on normal and 0.05% have killed him


Yet there are people here who are still complaining that they made it too easy?!?

If you are person who is arguing that people can't beat Ragnaros are "bad players" you have either become dissociated from reality, or are intentionally trolling. Its a bit like saying if someone has never won Wimbledon is a bad tennis player.

Its called perspective people. There are a lot of good WoW players out there. There are also a lot of exceptional WoW players out there. They are the 2% who have downed Ragnaros normal. The people who actually kill Ragnaros heroic are exceptional even amongst the exceptional.

If you are in any of these elite groups it probably means that you devote the kind of time to a computer game that most normal people simply do not have the luxury to spend. Calling someone useless and belittling them because they can *only* spend 20 hours a week playing the game is rude. Period.

Good post. But there are too many kids out here that have not learned to appretiate their own achievements and they feel big/strong etc. for puckling on those that have not. We simply have to live with these 1% of the very true elite players that are like this...and rest probably have not even killed Shannox normal yet, but imply they play in DREAM Paragon or something.

Originally Posted by Kaeleena

Then I'm not obligated to pay a monthly payment and I'll find a game that will allow me to see all content is released and your game will die. See how that works?

<snip>

Hardcore MMOs are doomed to failure because they only attract a tiny fraction of players.

But, you will not stop paying the monthly fee.
Raids in WoW has been hardcore since day one. Can you honestly say that WoW is a failure? How do you define failure?