Statistics: Firelands Changes Impact, Pumpkin Carving Contest, Fan Art

Originally Posted by Canbie

This just proves that Blizz needs to severely nerf Heroic modes. Less then 3000 players are doing this? That is just wrong. Why are they making content for such a low percentage of players? Even normal modes, this is just hilarious.

They did severely nerf Heroic modes. that 'less than 3000', that's for the one hard fight left. I don't think it's too absurd for the final boss of the Heroic mode to actually be hard. IT'S HEROIC MODE. Something like 7,000 guilds are 6/7 heroic, and I'm sure many of those guilds, like mine, have multiple groups killing six 'hardmodes'. The whole point of Heroic Mode was so that there could be a raid that was both not-insanely-hard for the 'casuals', and challenging for the 'elite'. I consider myself a casual, a serious casual maybe, but my group isn't even working on H-Rag right now. We might after Blizzcon, but killing 6/7H and N-Rag is easy and fun for us. We may be ahead of the curve, but the numbers for H-Rag absolutely do not mean that H-FL needs more nerfs. Hundreds of thousands of people are killing heroic bosses, just not Rag, and that's not terrible.

If it's Heroic, and killable, Blizzard doesn't need to nerf it, because that's what it's there for.

All that this prove is that the vast, vast majority do not, want not or can not raid. For whatever reason.Raids has to be there and it has to be very hard and challenging to keep the elite playing.But Blizzard need to add content for the rest as well then. They need to get away from this raid-or-die mindset of theirs and have alternative progression paths for the majority of their player base.

Originally Posted by Kaeleena

Then going from normal to heroic firelands you're looking at a 98% drop in people being able to clear the content(0.08% of the sample population).

MMOs that cater solely to the hardcore faceplant monthly. I'm disappointed Blizzard wasn't able to learn from their mistakes while simultaneously cannibalizing them.

I'd just like to say that it's not a 98% drop, as the percentage is 0.08%, not 2%.

For every player that has cleared Heroic Firelands, there's 1,136 players that has cleared normal Firelands. More nerfs to heroic and normal please.

---------- Post added 2011-10-13 at 07:59 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Canbie

Less then 3000 players are doing this?

Out of 2.7m, that's 5%. Not as bad when compared to 11.1m, but still bad, I know.

Originally Posted by Seolla

Sorry I disagree, casual players playing ~6 hours a week like yours can easily clear normal mode before the nerf. Those that still havn't by then can't really use the excuse "Real life more important", they are simply bad at this game.

I personally don't care about this 'bad at this game' excuse. Whether or not you're good at it, you still pay the monthly fees. The point is Blizzard don't cater enough for casual players. 2 rehashed old content dungeons isn't enough to keep casual players going - and PvP is a complete and utter joke.

I would be curious to see a graph showing the number of 6/7 heroic guilds pre and post nerf vs the ones given here. The nerfs to H rag, while significant, were done before a majority of guilds really had much learning time on him anyway, so do little to prove how many guilds were stone walled at him. meanwhile the nerfs appear to have trippled or even quadrupled the number of guilds at 6/7 heroic. 7/7 normal only doubled. So I'd say the nerfs to heroics were quite significant. And yet, most of these guilds will not kill H Rag this tier, even after the nerfs. So knowing this, would show you just how many guilds are stonewalled at H Rag.

Originally Posted by Prag

The amusing part of the statistics is it's even fewer "people" than you think. I know that Riggnaros (Death Knight Tank, Blood Legion) has at least 2 other toons clearing H Ragnaros every week. There's plenty more just like him that have 2+ characters on their account killing him.

I have one toon which I have cleared Ragnaros with. I have 2 alts at 85 which I do not use for raiding. If you viewed only my toons, you could say that only 33% of characters have cleared firelands, and I bet this 1-raider + x-alts is the case with many others in Altaclysm. So the statistics can also be skewed to show a lower number of actual [b]people[b], and probably is.

edit: the absolute number of people cannot be higher than the number of characters, and is probably lower, of course, but the percentage of people who have cleared Rag/H Rag is probably higher than the percentage of characters.

Surprised to see shaman in that list at all. Might be hope for the class after all. (Yeah, I know we're talking heroic raid boss, but wouldn't it feel at least a bit demoralizing if your class wasn't represented?)

Anyway, I think normal Ragnaros could use more nerfing. Not a whole lot, just a bit like say, one less Son or 5% less damage from those seeds. Doubt such a case would happen, so my guild will just have to keep slogging through attempts on him. (Also, wtb Protector token off Staghelm.)

The art is rather meh. Think it's the anime-style of the pictures.

Originally Posted by creb99

All that this prove is that the vast, vast majority do not, want not or can not raid. For whatever reason.Raids has to be there and it has to be very hard and challenging to keep the elite playing.But Blizzard need to add content for the rest as well then. They need to get away from this raid-or-die mindset of theirs and have alternative progression paths for the majority of their player base.

I sign this petition

Originally Posted by velde046

This actually shows that Blizzard isn't even close to catering to casuals as much as many would have us believe. Based on the figures in the graph and the number of people in the data pool:

• Only 0.1% of the 2.7mil population killed Heroic Rag AFTER the nerf....
• Onyl 5% of the population killed all bosses in Firelands on normal. Mind you ONLY 5% on normal. How can this even be called catering to the casuals.
• And going by these numbers, apperently only imba people visit MMO-Champ, seeing there so many more than the above percentage would have you expect that call the raids too easy.
• Or my previous point is flawed and a lot of people on MMO-Champ are lying about their experience with the difficulty

You cant be serious, I mean cmon, did you even think about it .. really?

How many of those 2.7 million players are ACTUALLY raiding? How many of THOSE are raiding like 3 times or 4 times a week which it takes to kill H rag even after the nerf (if you're not in the Top 50 guilds worldwide)
And about the normal mode.. I would say not even 50% of wow players are really raiding. So many just do pvp and some just do 5mans/fooling around with friends/Bgs etc. If at all 50%, maybe even around 35 to 40%. 5% of the whole population is then actually over 15% of the raiding population. Which is ok I guess since a lot more ppl will be at 6/7, 5/7 whatever...
How easy do you want the game to be? If 30% of the whole wow population would have killed rag then almost every raider would have downed him. How would you justifiy this as an "achievement", if almost EVERY OTHER raider can kill the same boss as you. Might as well be a 5m heroic.
Ridicolous.

Can we stop with "only X killed Heroic Ragnaros, you suck Blizzard"? You are getting your "pug friendly" mode next patch - so all your alts can get Deathwing kill without much problem. I'd say that should be enough, seeing how it's all about "seeing the content" and it's not like Ragnaros legs is much of a content - I certainly don't remember that many people crying about Sinestra, and that was an entirely new boss. On top of that, we can stop saying "X out of ten million people", since obviously not everyone wants to raid - and out of those, not everyone wants to easily kill heroic mode end boss.

Ragnaros will probably get more nerfs anyway. Most of the stuff that wipes you wasn't really affected by 15% damage nerf - because it hardly matters if you're hit for 500k or 450k. Yeah, you might survive one more tick of Superheated, doesn't matter since Geyser, Meteor, Sulfuras or failure to deal with Dreadflame will still wipe you. P4 is still RNG heavy, and you still can't place Lightwell/Barrier on half of the platform, now that's something that is truly "wtf Blizzard"

Of course, very soon this won't matter - once T13 hits, H T12 will be forgotten. Those who complain the loudest won't bother with somewhat difficult bosses, since LFR will offer comparable rewards for fraction of effort.

Originally Posted by Firebert

I'd just like to say that it's not a 98% drop, as the percentage is 0.08%, not 2%.

For every player that has cleared Heroic Firelands, there's 1,136 players that has cleared normal Firelands. More nerfs to heroic and normal please.

2376 players in the sample cleared Heroic Firelands. 135859 players in the sample cleared Normal Firelands. 2376 is 1.7% of 135859. That's a 98.3% drop in the number of players that can clear Normal Ragnaros to the number of Players that can clear Heroic Ragnaros. There are not 1,136 players that have cleared Normal Firelands for every 1 player who has cleared Heroic Firelands. There are only 57 players who have cleared Normal Firelands for every player who has cleared Heroic Firelands (135859/2375=57.179). You vastly overestimate the number of players that have cleared normal. .08% is 1.7% of 5.03%. Thus there's a 98.3% drop.

Originally Posted by Firebert

I'd just like to say that it's not a 98% drop, as the percentage is 0.08%, not 2%.

For every player that has cleared Heroic Firelands, there's 1,136 players that has cleared normal Firelands. More nerfs to heroic and normal please.

---------- Post added 2011-10-13 at 07:59 AM ----------


Out of 2.7m, that's 5%. Not as bad when compared to 11.1m, but still bad, I know.

I'm pretty sure 5% of 2.7mil isn't 3000.

Originally Posted by Gratlim

So let's see hum:

Normal Fireland: 135k / 2,7m =5%
Heroic Fireland: 2400/2700000 = 0,08 %

I like how content post nerf was cleaned by only a 5,08% of the tested population post epic nerf. One word: scary....Hopefully we will be around 10% for normal mode by december.

It looks like you've more chance to get Rivendale charger mount than killing H.Rag even after nerf. Funny

Please learn to apply math or stay far, far away from it.

Firelands was nerfed was because Ghostcrawler is a one button spamming, arcane mage noob that couldn't down any bosses on normal without wiping for hours on end, thats why mages are buffed to suit this noobs playstyle and why he believes hunter damage is high. It's funny they try to justify the nerfs with charts though when thats the real reason the game is being dumbed down.

Originally Posted by Jubb

Firelands was nerfed was because Ghostcrawler is a one button spamming, arcane mage noob that couldn't down any bosses on normal without wiping for hours on end, thats why mages are buffed to suit this noobs playstyle and why he believes hunter damage is high. It's funny they try to justify the nerfs with charts though when thats the real reason the game is being dumbed down.

Firelands was nerfed because it's too hard for 94.97% of the player base. Heroic Firelands was nerfed because it's too hard for 98.3% of the player base that could clear Normal Firelands. Your conspiracy theories about Ghostcrawler being a keyboard turning nitwit while anecdotally founded are secondary to statistical proof that so are 99.92% of the playerbase.

I don't know what it is with this tier especially, but my impression is most people just can't be bothered with it anymore. Maybe it's because of the big jump of difficulty from Domo to Rag, or maybe people just don't like this tier, I can't say. Raid finder will change everything though, everybody will be able to get through the raid on easy mode. I fear that will just widen the gap between serious raiders and casual raiders even more, and lead to fewer and fewer people trying heroics and more and more guilds falling apart..

Originally Posted by Kaeleena

135859 players in the sample cleared Normal Firelands.

Oh man. Making a ratio of 0.00088 to 1 is definitely the wrong way to go. Apologies.

---------- Post added 2011-10-13 at 08:18 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Moshic

I'm pretty sure 5% of 2.7mil isn't 3000.

Similar apologies extend to you. It's even worse considering I'm a mathematics undergrad student.

Originally Posted by chaud

There are a lot more than 2.7 million level 85 characters. Another 2.6 million are in queue to be processed (combined US and EU) for at least 5 million. That is before the first pass is even done. I would imagine there are are least 6-7 million level 85 characters between the US and EU.

I'll see about putting together another set of stats that talks more to player activity and normal raid progression among actual raiders.

Would love to see that chart over the full data. I doubt it will change much in the ratios but people still can claim that it's incomplete set currently.
Also regarding the normal progression, couldn't you graph over the statistics? Because in contrast to achievements they also track normal bosses. Really would love to see the last graph for normal mode raiding simply to see how that compares (especially staghelm and ragnaros).

To me this definitely shows that any form of complaint about difficulty being to low or even lower than in earlier expansions are completely void. Heroic raiding is for the top guilds currently (and I mean after the nerfs). But maybe it's actually only the ~2500 people who killed Ragnaros heroic that are complaining on the forums that the game is to easy...

But enough with the complaining about complainers. While I doubt the LFR will help me in any shape or form (either because I'm incompetent or not patient enough to wait through dozens of groups until I see a success), I guess it will push these numbers much higher for TDS raid. I'm really interested in how they plan to tune this down to make it viable and especially how they design the problem that occurs when you can't finish the raid in one run and suddenly have loads of people with different progressions (if you have to start over this could mean you never see any progress and I guess discourages people to run after the first weekly run didn't finish the raid)

Originally Posted by Boubouille

Data was looked at for over 2.7 million level 85 characters, most of them being in the US.

I think many people are missing this. It's 2.7 million characters, not people.

Originally Posted by kneeo

Rag doesn't need more nerfs, people need to be less terrible at the game.

Not sure what game you think you're playing, but to clue you in; it's a casual, mainstream, extremely simple MMO. It's only going to get easier as Blizzard realizes their target audience doesn't want to slam their head against a wall.

If this is shocking or upsetting to you, then you just may want to prepare yourself, just saying.