MMO-Champion - Raid Finder Loot Exploit Suspensions, Paragon Apology
Raid Finder Loot Exploit Suspensions
Blizzard finally commented on the Raid Finder Loot exploit resultingin multiple accounts suspensions in a lot of guilds.
Originally Posted by Bashiok (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Shortly after patch 4.3 was released, we became aware that some players were abusing an exploit to obtain loot from the same Raid Finder bosses multiple times in a single raid lockout period (one week). The Raid Finder loot mechanic is of course intended to only allow a person to roll on boss loot drops once per raid lockout period. The raid lockout mechanic has been a mainstay of the World of Warcraft rules since Onyxia and Molten Core, ensuring that no one can obtain loot from a boss more than once per lockout. Due to the nature of the exploit and the clear intent of those who abused it, they've been issued notices and given temporary suspensions from the game. We’re also working to remove all Raid Finder items from those who used the exploit.

It's also worth noting that Paragon posted an apology on their website

An LFR Apology
There has been a lot of misinformation going around, so to clear things up, here is a truthful account of what exactly happened with the LFR and what we have to say about it:

The patch hit EU servers on Wednesday. We started off with our 5x Firelands runs to wrap up legendaries and called it a night. For Thursday, we had an elaborate plan to run a personal LFR raid for every main character to get the maximum amount of loot.

As we were doing the first few runs, we noticed an unrealistic amount of tier pieces on some guilds' armory profiles, which we thought was unattainable through normal means. We started looking into it, and found out that you can loot passed gear from bosses, regardless of save status, if you zone out and back into the instance. This did not provide the raid with any extra loot, but it did eliminate a major portion of the RNG that would have been involved in simply doing personal runs for everyone.

We acknowledge that using this unintended behavior, which was quite clearly a bug, to our gain, was wrong. The fact that others were using it as well is no justification for doing it ourselves. We apologize for doing it, and accept whatever consequences follow.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Raid Finder Loot Exploit Suspensions, Paragon Apology started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 488 Comments
  1. rdj's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarac View Post
    Not really, we have no business in what other people do with their characters. Hes only right for trolling you if you think you are better than him
    He wasn't trolling me, he was trolling the people in the forum who were saying their gear had been taken away. This was before the suspensions were handed out and before Blizzard started stripping them of the gear they obtained through the exploit. It just show the arrogance these players have and they could care less they cheated, thus, the apology doesn't mean shit, just trying to save their asses.
  1. subanark's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by ganush View Post
    It was about trinkets and tier only. Trinkets have never worked the better ilvl is better so there were definitely some trinket upgrades or situational trinkets to be had. As for tier, some of the 4pc tank bonuses would likely come in handy for progression and having full t13 even at ilvl 384 would allow them to seamlessly switch from t12 to t13 without that period of time running 2x 2 set bonuses. They likely wouldn't use 4 set 384 over 4 set 391, but when they get a couple of heroic t13 pieces, switching the last two 391's to 384's and getting your 4 pc will likely be a dps increase.
    The tier sets for this patch are quite powerful, and they nerfed some of the previous tier pieces to ensure that people wouldn't hold out upgrading. As an elemental shaman, my 2pc was nerfed from incredibly powerful to almost useless, and the 4PC is only a minor dps increase (although it was fun being able to jump around and move 95% of dps time as a caster).
  1. Buckwald's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by snuffglops View Post
    "The fact that others were using it as well is no justification for doing it ourselves."

    I just cannot agree with that. I could have gotten away with that statement. ALL of my friends in this game could have gotten away with that statement. But Paragon is probably the best PvE guild in the world. They're going to do virtually everything they can to keep it that way. When they see that other people are taking advantage of a bug that could give them a decent enough edge to get a world first, they're going to take it. And so, if I were leading Paragon, that would have been my reply to Blizzard. "We do everything we can to remain the most competitive PvE guild in the world. If other people are taking advantage of a bug that Blizzard should have gotten fixed on PTR, then we're going to do the same thing."

    It kind of reminds of people taking steroids in Major League Baseball. By the time the era was at an end, you had so many players saying that they were doing it just because so many other people were as well, and they didn't want to lose their edge in the game.
    So, you're saying that since other people cheat in a game, others should cheat as well to stay competative? That's just terrible. Just because those MLB players were never caught, doesn't make it less deplorable. I have zero respect for those who knowingly cheat the system. Yeah, got it, the top guilds who exploited and then banned probably still would've been on top even if they didn't cheat. But, they did. It creates a disgusting and unhealthy competition environment when all you do is look for ways around the system. Do it right and earn it. By Paragon taking full responsibility and accepting punishment shows maturity from them. They don't blame anyone else, and the shouldn't.

    One of my first Sergeants told me when I joined the Army: "If you can look at yourself in the mirror, tell yourself you gave it your all and you did it with integrity, then no one can hold you back. If you can't then, you need to man up and do it right."
  1. evilhunter32's Avatar
    To everyone being surprised that Paragon abused this exploit have you forgotten their T11 HM Atramedes kill where they had everyone go into that little hallway to avoid the sonar discs.
  1. Kronicles's Avatar
    omg guys paragon cheated!
  1. meckina's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by macnuke View Post
    so they take a week off.
    they log in and still have more loot than anyone.

    strip em i say.
    then let em gear up like everyone else is supposed to.
    take the loot, give em a week off and take it from anyone that was in there doing that as well.

    they're "leet".. they will get over it.
    They are indeed leet, but the name is now tainted
  1. Inimicus's Avatar
    They do have the alts to run 25 different main toons through LFR, that shouldn't be a surprise in itself really.
  1. Rummer's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by greyghost View Post
    Cheat-loving failures can sit there and laugh at Blood Leigon / Vodka getting world firsts, but the vast majority of us will cheer them on, because they got to where they are legitimately.
    I agree completely with this. There are a bunch of jaded fanboys out there that try to stick up for the guild they like as if it's a sports team they're cheering for. Cheer for the ones that get stuff done legitimately without any kind of bug exploits, not the ones that cheat their way to the top.

    I'm pretty impressed with guilds like Blood Legion and Vodka to be honest, not using this exploit when they knew it was there and that they would likely need it to compete properly. Kudos to them for being fair and I hope they do well in the coming weeks.
  1. Bullarkie's Avatar
    It was Blizzards bug. The WoW test team should've caught it. I don't care about what Blizzard "intends". If you can do it in game it's fair game.
  1. segoots14's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Awfulx View Post
    Hopefully this knocks Paragon out of world firsts in every way shape and form. They knew they were cheating.
    I would guess that most other guilds that would have challenged Paragon for the world first partook in this behavior as well, meaning that Paragon will most likely still get world firsts out of it.
  1. Ivirus's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by qwikz View Post
    No need trying to save face paragon, youre now branded as cheaters
    Apologising for cheating won't change the fact they cheated now and many times before or lessen the punishment. Just deserts.
  1. Gritalian's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Goliad View Post
    Does their cheating affect you? Why can't people play this game for their own amusement? Who cares how many guilds exploited, they will get their punishment and it will affect you exactly 0%. All these people saying glad they got suspended or glad they got their comeuppance are just being silly. 99% of the people who play wow do not care, will not care, heck most do not even know who paragon is, nor do they care. It's a game, have fun playing your game. If your game is made better by other people's misery, then you need a new game.
    It's similar to Tournament Theory. Paragon is at the top, they are promoted as the best guild, which in turns creates an environment where 10,000 guilds strive to play at that level where reality is maybe 10 guilds actually have that possibility. But as such, it creates a sense of competition that is then applied to servers, where you have guilds who finish weeks if not months behind Paragon, yet are competing against guilds on their server for server firsts.

    Paragon is the figurehead for competitive raiding, as they are on the top. Raiding guilds striving to be first just on their server are influenced by the best guild(s) in the world. It's the same way kids in little league look up to MLB players. Then you find out that the guild that inspires you to perform better is cheating and taking short cuts, and it kind of diminishes what they are all about.

    If they are cheating for LFR gear, you have to question what other tactics they've used in the past. Ensidia fell out of favor with the WoW community when using the saronite bombs on Lich King, I imagine this will result in the same for Paragon.
  1. rabbimojo's Avatar
    While I don't approve of the cheating at all myself, I think it's entertaining how many people don't seem to get that the upper echelons of competitive *anything* are rife with "cheating". It's simply the most effective way to be competitive, especially if others are doing the same. Finding ways to cheat without being caught is the norm, sadly. C'est la vie.
  1. rhofactor's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Inimicus View Post
    They do have the alts to run 25 different main toons through LFR, that shouldn't be a surprise in itself really.
    Agreed! I was just thinking about that right before you posted it.
  1. Drekavac's Avatar
    I think the funniest thing about all this is the people that actually care.... those who actually care about getting "world firsts" in a f'n game...and those will never have a chance at getting them being fanboys for those who do. It's a game...go take your "world firsts" to a job interview and see if they respect you for it. Get a life people, you need to rediscover what "game" means.
  1. mizuno's Avatar
    The fact that this was a bug and many people were taking advantage of it, would of Blizzard noticed it? You are punishing those over a bug that it is basically Blizzards job to fix can't say Blizzards loves blaming others than themselves. I find it funny that Paragon apologized that still won't get them away from the fact of being banned seriously if i were them I would of written things differently. "It was there I took advantage of it, not my fault Blizzard didn't fix this in the Ptr and if it was seriously out there basically in every server how could you of not noticed it? I feel I shouldn't apologize because being the top guild means competition and that's basically why we must take of advantage of every opportunity." If Blizzard can't manage the problems they see they shouldn't be punishing others for it simple as that. Luckily I didn't do the LFR but actually did a real raid in my ten man, and surprisingly normal Dragon Soul is a lot simple than Firelands. I can predict by the time Panadaren comes out Blizzard will lose more than half of there subscriber. Games die in due time and W.O.W is heading there.
  1. rhofactor's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Drekavac View Post
    I think the funniest thing about all this is the people that actually care.... those who actually care about getting "world firsts" in a f'n game...and those will never have a chance at getting them being fanboys for those who do. It's a game...go take your "world firsts" to a job interview and see if they respect you for it. Get a life people, you need to rediscover what "game" means.
    lawlz. you sad bro?
  1. Ademptio's Avatar
    The fact they knew fully well it was a bug and still exploit it pisses me off... but hell I dont care about them anyways lol. I guess its only appropriate they said sorry.
  1. Theprejudice's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by ripslyme View Post
    pure bullshit.. i got 8 days while others got 3 while others got nothing
    You could have got nothing aswell but decided to do it anyway. Why so sour?
  1. hyphnos's Avatar
    A just punishment for each and every one of these guilds would be to lock every guild that exploited out of heroic mode until someone who didn't exploit gets world first Deathwing kill. That would be something that would matter to them far more than a suspension when heroic isn't even live yet.

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