MMO-Champion - Raid Finder Loot Exploit Suspensions, Paragon Apology
Raid Finder Loot Exploit Suspensions
Blizzard finally commented on the Raid Finder Loot exploit resultingin multiple accounts suspensions in a lot of guilds.
Originally Posted by Bashiok (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Shortly after patch 4.3 was released, we became aware that some players were abusing an exploit to obtain loot from the same Raid Finder bosses multiple times in a single raid lockout period (one week). The Raid Finder loot mechanic is of course intended to only allow a person to roll on boss loot drops once per raid lockout period. The raid lockout mechanic has been a mainstay of the World of Warcraft rules since Onyxia and Molten Core, ensuring that no one can obtain loot from a boss more than once per lockout. Due to the nature of the exploit and the clear intent of those who abused it, they've been issued notices and given temporary suspensions from the game. We’re also working to remove all Raid Finder items from those who used the exploit.

It's also worth noting that Paragon posted an apology on their website

An LFR Apology
There has been a lot of misinformation going around, so to clear things up, here is a truthful account of what exactly happened with the LFR and what we have to say about it:

The patch hit EU servers on Wednesday. We started off with our 5x Firelands runs to wrap up legendaries and called it a night. For Thursday, we had an elaborate plan to run a personal LFR raid for every main character to get the maximum amount of loot.

As we were doing the first few runs, we noticed an unrealistic amount of tier pieces on some guilds' armory profiles, which we thought was unattainable through normal means. We started looking into it, and found out that you can loot passed gear from bosses, regardless of save status, if you zone out and back into the instance. This did not provide the raid with any extra loot, but it did eliminate a major portion of the RNG that would have been involved in simply doing personal runs for everyone.

We acknowledge that using this unintended behavior, which was quite clearly a bug, to our gain, was wrong. The fact that others were using it as well is no justification for doing it ourselves. We apologize for doing it, and accept whatever consequences follow.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Raid Finder Loot Exploit Suspensions, Paragon Apology started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 488 Comments
  1. Chaoslux's Avatar
    This is the first time they've been exploiting, they have released videos of every single one of their kills and they have been viewed and confirmed to not be cheating. Why does people think its "safe to assume" they've been cheating this whole time, where its clearly not the case? Why does people these days think class stacking is actually cheating? Remember Vanilla/BC? Class stacking was REQUIRED
  1. SinR's Avatar
    LFR apology == death row inmate admitting he/she did what they did before they're injected/shot/shocked/gassed/whatever they do nowadays. "yeah, we did it, but so did everyone else. we're sorry to our fanboys"
  1. Karnige's Avatar
    the only reason they apologized was because they got caught. no sympathy for them
  1. Lolman's Avatar
    Sure, Paragons saying sorry now, but blizzard should not accept their apology and face the consequences. Paragon exploited the bug (probably knowingly) and therefore they deserved to be punished, there is nothing to be sorry for. It is like a gang robs a retail shop and when the police takes them into custody, the gang says they are sorry for robbing that retail shop. I doubt the police is just gonna let them go unpunished just because they apologized. If paragon's sorry, why did they exploit the bug in the first place?
  1. belgicanofl's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Karapoyraz View Post
    people who bashed blizzard for allowing exploits in wow also must say apology. But i think they wont be come out of thier caves for like 6 months because of shame.
    No we don't. The exploit was clearly part of ptr, they want us to test and they don't even look for exploits.

    They should apologise to us ptr testers for not reading our complaints and bringing the bugs to live realms each single patch release.
  1. Vallius's Avatar
    I find all the white knights on this board hilarious. Most of you have never and will never be in their shoes and how dare you lift your hammer of Internet Morality at them. Let's clarify some things here.

    They (the guilds using this exploit) knew what they were doing and they knew it was cheating. They knew this. From the begining. They aren't sorry for doing it and I wouldn't be either. It was a competitive play call that they (at least in Paragon's case) even hoped would result in some form of action. It was either going to turn out one of two ways. A) They get away with it and the race continues or B) They get caught and everyone doing so would be held back. It really was a win-win for them regardless.

    Now, I know it's hard for you anoynomous peoples to project into that situation, but at least try and see why they did it instead of damning them for doing so. They made the right call for their motives/goals. Was it wrong? Yes! Yes, it was. But when you have the pressures of sponsorship, fans, community sites and other elements at your back the moral high ground, as it were, is veiled in a bit more fog than you might think.

    I'm not saying what they did was the -right- thing to do, but it was the right call for the circumstance and ultimately they got what they wanted anyway.
  1. Intrepid1's Avatar
    They are sorry because they were caught doing it. The suspension is light and compared to how blizzard has treated others in the past that exploited they should have had their accounts banned. It's not like they unintentionally did this, they new it was an exploit and continued to do it.
  1. Bahska's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Antherios View Post
    Hahaha good one. Blizzard should apologize to cheaters for giving them a window to cheat.

    Thats like Casinos apologizing to people using hidden computers because they didnt do a strip search at the entrance.
    The second part of his statement is true though no other company would be let go for releasing a buggy patch, especially when the specific bug was reported in testing AWILE ago.
  1. Khaidu's Avatar
    it is the nature of animals and mankind to naturally seek out easier alternatives to gain success. If you give a crow an intricate puzzle for the crow to do to get the food, but then have a quick hatch on the opposite side that gives instant access to the food, the crow will quickly choose to use the hatch as it is an easier option to success. Doing something like the above is no different, people found an easier way to get the loot, it wasn't supposed to work like that, but you cannot ban people for finding an easier alternative to the puzzle.
  1. raeloneq's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolman View Post
    Sure, Paragons saying sorry now, but blizzard should not accept their apology and face the consequences. Paragon exploited the bug (probably knowingly) and therefore they deserved to be punished, there is nothing to be sorry for. It is like a gang robs a retail shop and when the police takes them into custody, the gang says they are sorry for robbing that retail shop. I doubt the police is just gonna let them go unpunished just because they apologized. If paragon's sorry, why did they exploit the bug in the first place?
    Cant you read? They are getting temporarily banned...
  1. Bridius's Avatar
    Wow, screw Paragon. They're apologizing for getting loot I didn't get. I didn't feel like running LFR multiple times.

    WHERE'S THE PERMA BAN?
  1. Matthew's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Bogrim View Post
    Because I don't care about your Rogue, but I care about Paragon and a lot of players I have talked to about the exploit in the game expressed a large disappointment in one of the most famed guilds sinking to this level.
    You don't care about his Rogue but you don't speak for everyone else. I don't give 2 shits about Paragon and agree that this didn't need a to be on MMO-Champion. There are guilds and players out there who do things harder than what they do but don't and probably never will get any kind of recognition.

    World first kills is the only real form of sport and competition in this game, you'll have to deal with it just like I have to deal with popular soccer matches interrupting my usual radio programs.
    Not really. The fights go the same way every time, so it isn't a sport. If Deathwing did some random new moves each time you fought him, sure, it might be a sport. However, fighting a boss on the PTR so you know how to do it then doing it on the normal realms is hardly an accomplishment.
  1. Deadanon's Avatar
    So its not skills... Its cheating.
  1. ImpTaimer's Avatar
    Who actually believes Paragon didn't know about this exploit during their time on the PTR... they're just sugarcoating themselves to look like white knights.

    They need to start disallowing people from PTR, especially people who got an in-game ban from the game.

    People who weren't eligible for the Annual Pass should also be disallowed because they don't have a good standing. "Oh but I just started playing" -- people who just started should not be worried about what's going down on the PTR.

    The WORST part is this glorified extended maintenance. Just bullshit drama for US guilds trying to race for world firsts. How much you wanna bet EU doesn't get an extended maintenance. And ontop of that, don't koreans have two resets per week? I'm glad I don't participate in the race...
  1. Harith's Avatar
    i like how there defence agurment for them exploiting this was "but but they where also doing it and it is a race and blizzard is unclear with there rules"i woudn't say blizzard has ever been unclear with there rules it seems pritty dam

    obvious, don't cheat on the last boss of a dungon (for ex Lich king, 0 guardingans yogg saron, queen vhaj bug)

    but stacking a class witch is extremely good in a fight is ok (aka nefarion, rag, 0yogg)

    you can use cheap tactics on non end bosses (the blind dragon, freeze guy in ulduar)

    and you can't exploit a game system (aka raid finder bug, tag killing)

    tell me how this dose not cover every single ban and non ban that has happend in wow over the last 3 years?
  1. Artholas's Avatar
    My favorite part about this is how they were trolling everyone by logging out with their LFR gear removed, not expecting to get any sort of punishment. Gave me a good chuckle.
  1. Bashkar's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by raeloneq View Post
    All I see here is a bunch of haters that didn't get to exploit the system.And the point is, Blizzard fucked up. They got exploited and they should be the ones apologizing for releasing buggy patches.
    I want you to write a small browser-based RPG that has absolutely nothing wrong with it. Give it a week.

    When you come back with a mangled piece of junk, I want you to think about building a game of this magnitude and ensuring that every single character of code is flawless both during internal and external testing.

    During a VB programming course ( I know, I know D: ) I had written an interactive ordering system for a small restaurant; I couldn't get the damn thing to run. According to both professors, there was nothing conceivably wrong with what I had written. It just decided that it was tired of my shit, and wasn't going to run.

    Something that was maybe a few hundred lines of code was being stubborn. Can you imagine something with millions of lines of code? Elements in something that complex can interact in ways that you could never EVER predict.
  1. Chaoslux's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Vallius View Post
    I find all the white knights on this board hilarious. Most of you have never and will never be in their shoes and how dare you lift your hammer of Internet Morality at them. Let's clarify some things here.

    They (the guilds using this exploit) knew what they were doing and they knew it was cheating. They knew this. From the begining. They aren't sorry for doing it and I wouldn't be either. It was a competitive play call that they (at least in Paragon's case) even hoped would result in some form of action. It was either going to turn out one of two ways. A) They get away with it and the race continues or B) They get caught and everyone doing so would be held back. It really was a win-win for them regardless.

    Now, I know it's hard for you anoynomous peoples to project into that situation, but at least try and see why they did it instead of damning them for doing so. They made the right call for their motives/goals. Was it wrong? Yes! Yes, it was. But when you have the pressures of sponsorship, fans, community sites and other elements at your back the moral high ground, as it were, is veiled in a bit more fog than you might think.

    I'm not saying what they did was the -right- thing to do, but it was the right call for the circumstance and ultimately they got what they wanted anyway.
    Its the other side, its a lose-lose situation for every top guild:

    A) Guilds that did it and got banned.
    B) Guilds that didnt do it may be good to get World Firsts, but they will be empty because the only reason they got those world firsts is because Paragon / Method / Envy are banned.
  1. Mercadi's Avatar
    Judging by Paragon posts on forums they still think it was acceptable. That is their choice to think that way. But it definitely is wrong to a fair observer.
  1. charleybwoy's Avatar
    Dream Paragon apology is bullshit. Trying to save the face now?

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