Dragon Soul Difficulty Change - Power of the Aspects to 10%

Give me a damn achivement for turning it off then. It might get more players into heroic modes but it also spits in the face of the guilds that worked their asses off for the un-nerfed version of the kills. but then again blizzard has to baby the population instead of teaching them how to actually play.

Originally Posted by butthe4d

Nope i dont have cleared DS and still HATE the nerf. I didnt cleared it because i just dont have the time to raid every week. But does that mean i want to get an easy kill on the bosses?

No i dont...for me its a fun killer. When i have a tough time with a Boss (no matter were) and have being whiping a lot and then finally kill it, im happy because i know we did better then before. We suceeded because we "worked" for it. But if im whiping on a boss a lot and then comes a 5 or 10% or later even 35% nerf then i dont feel any kind of satisfaction because I kow its was not that we got better, not because we worked for it, it was because Blizz decided that we should have an easy kill.

Dont tell me you can turn it off...no one will turn it off well guess what, im not the only person in my 10 man raid. Or can i choose just for me to turn it off? You allways have a few in your group who just wants some easy and fast kills. Disabling is just no option even if you have a way to do so. Whoever is saying so must be playing a different game...

Stop whining and find a guild or start a guild that believe the same way you do. If you can't then just continue to be forever alone.

I look forward to the buff increase every time. Maybe it's just me, but it's kind of like when people would run the first tier of heroics in their ICC gear at the end of WotLK -- the challenge was to see how many groups you could pull and AoE down at once and/or beat the place in under 10 minutes.

Ok, so comparing a raid to a dungeon may not be the greatest example, but hopefully the main idea is understood.

I'm sure everyone who's whining about the nerf buff has cleared hc mode already without it... If you don't like easy mode then turn it off because no one else cares.

There was a time, when WoW were awesome, And their creativity were insane, And their subscribers were rising, There was a time, when we we're blind, And the game was a song, And the game were exciting, There was a time it all went wrong.... I dreamed a dream in time gone by, when hope was high and the game was worth playing, I dreamed that Blizzard would never let the game die, I dreamed that Ghostcrawler would never nerf Ret!

Originally Posted by Ruck

Give me a damn achivement for turning it off then. It might get more players into heroic modes but it also spits in the face of the guilds that worked their asses off for the un-nerfed version of the kills. but then again blizzard has to baby the population instead of teaching them how to actually play.

Lots of folks have "worked their asses off" to kill bosses this tier, but not everyone was lucky enough to have the right comps or the right gear drops to make that same "work" result in the same kill. Your righteous indignation is sorely misplaced since the pass/fail of many guilds (certainly not all pushing Heroics) was out of their hands and at the whim of RNG shared boss loot and how many Dragonwraths they brought with them from Firelands. If Guild A with a melee stacked, non-trinket geared raid kills a boss at 5% that you killed at 0% simply because they are melee stacked and lack trinkets, that doesn't cheapen their kill or your own, that's just Blizzard giving them the same boost you happened to get through loot. Get over it.

Oh and it is a video game. You haven't worked your ass off at all, you've sat in a chair in front of a computer screen for several hours mashing the same 5-6 keys over and over until the raid figured out how to deal with P2 Zon'ozz tentacles efficiently, not die to Hagara's frost phase, not screw up Fading Twilight or Hour of Twilight, not get hit by charge and soak properly, etc etc.

Too many QQers around here. Turn off the nerf and its hard again. I like this style of nerfing really it prevents, them from having to nerf the content in patches which is irreversible. They should do all raids like this a couple months after its released, just cause.

The buff is so stupid, but not for the reasons you might think.
Saying you can just turn off the buff is like saying you can just not gem and enchant your gear, or refuse to use warcraft food and flasks. No serious raider is ever going to do any of these things, because people like to feel like they're doing everything in their power to fight against impossible odds.

If 'just turning it off' is such a real option, why don't they just do it from day one? Why do exactly zero groups do this with the buff off? This isn't anything but a dangling carrot that blizzard periodically lowers when they think the hamsters are giving up on the treadmill.

Originally Posted by Spotnick

H: The Lich King (25) Nov 10, 2010 01:29 892 271 3

Here you go.. 271th US kill, 892 worldwide, server 3rd.. that is almost 1 year after ICC was released.

I don't mind the buff, but I'm quite sure heroic Madness's 271th US kill won't be next November. And they started the ICC buff in March, so 4 months after release, not 2. Like I said above, only explanation I can see is we'll have big announcement for MoP very soon, otherwise there is no reason to make us breeze through content that fast.

So - after 12 months, new (OP) talents, and a 30% nerf, there were 892 kills of LK.

In just 2 months, and 5% we already have 526 Madness kills.

This is why people are getting their backs up.

Madness is the end boss of this expansion and Blizzard are nerfing it so hard that by the time MoP is out, he'll actually have a lower DPS / HPS requirement than pre-nerf normal mode.

Every time they turn that nerf up, the Heroic Mode "reward" mount, is getting 1 step closer to the Blizzard Store mounts.

It sucks for those of us that earnt it at 0-5%

It's called "Heroic" mode. There is nothing "Heroic" about turning up and winning

Too soon Executus!

Originally Posted by Shadowdream

Isn't that why anyone buys a game? What makes a game fun is overcoming the challenge of it, it's why you rarely if ever see any successful games without a challenging aspect to them. Hell, even sandbox games offer challenge once you expand it enough.

Not why I buy them. I buy them to relax. Lots of non challenging games make it really big, SecondLife, The Sims are just a couple examples.

Originally Posted by Rude Hero

The buff is so stupid, but not for the reasons you might think.
Saying you can just turn off the buff is like saying you can just not gem and enchant your gear, or refuse to use warcraft food and flasks. No serious raider is ever going to do any of these things, because people like to feel like they're doing everything in their power to fight against impossible odds.

If 'just turning it off' is such a real option, why don't they just do it from day one? Why do exactly zero groups do this with the buff off? This isn't anything but a dangling carrot that blizzard periodically lowers when they think the hamsters are giving up on the treadmill.

You have your personal view of a serious raider that some posters claim to not share, and that is your view of a serious raider is that of someone that does anything and everything in their power to down a boss because not doing so is simply gimping yourself.

Those that claim the challenge is what they really and truly want DO in fact have that option. Thing is people don't actually believe in this as wholeheartedly as they claim nor can they ever produce a group of people that are likeminded such that they progress in DS without using the handicap. Just because people don't take the choice seriously doesn't mean the choice doesn't exist.

Besides, if there was no option to remove the buff... people would complain that they can and would freely remove the buff and Blizzard gave them no option and that they only care about casuals and blah blah blah.

Originally Posted by Ruck

Give me a damn achivement for turning it off then. It might get more players into heroic modes but it also spits in the face of the guilds that worked their asses off for the un-nerfed version of the kills. but then again blizzard has to baby the population instead of teaching them how to actually play.

That's just plain bull. It doesn't spit in the face of anybody. They know what they did. What difference does it make what anybody else does?

Originally Posted by Rude Hero

The buff is so stupid, but not for the reasons you might think.
Saying you can just turn off the buff is like saying you can just not gem and enchant your gear, or refuse to use warcraft food and flasks. No serious raider is ever going to do any of these things, because people like to feel like they're doing everything in their power to fight against impossible odds.

If 'just turning it off' is such a real option, why don't they just do it from day one? Why do exactly zero groups do this with the buff off? This isn't anything but a dangling carrot that blizzard periodically lowers when they think the hamsters are giving up on the treadmill.

Well you can just not gem/enchant/use food/flask and all those other things. Those are options that you can choose too or not too partake in. Now lets look at Blizzard like a company,which it is. That company has a product(WOW). They made the product for all the consumers (players) or most too enjoy. What good is a product to a company that only some consumers get full usage out of it. That company will lose business or wont be able to expand because their product is too difficult to get the maximum use of the money they spend on it. Well the company has two options:
1. Let the stragling consumers fall off and not pay anymore, which could lead to the company going under.
2. Try to please the majority of its consumers by making their product easier to get the max usage out of it. And at the same time keep a more difficult option available for those who want it.
I dont know about you but I love money and happy people so im going to go with option 2. If you recall when Blizz did this option with leveling they saw a huge raise in numbers. Gotta realize its a business first and a game second.

Originally Posted by Dela2k10

So - after 12 months, new (OP) talents, and a 30% nerf, there were 892 kills of LK.

In just 2 months, and 5% we already have 526 Madness kills.

This is why people are getting their backs up.

Madness is the end boss of this expansion and Blizzard are nerfing it so hard that by the time MoP is out, he'll actually have a lower DPS / HPS requirement than pre-nerf normal mode.

Every time they turn that nerf up, the Heroic Mode "reward" mount, is getting 1 step closer to the Blizzard Store mounts.

It sucks for those of us that earnt it at 0-5%

It's called "Heroic" mode. There is nothing "Heroic" about turning up and winning

And people are getting their backs up for no good reason. You cannot compare timelines in ICC and DS at all. In the first 2 months, we hadn't even seen Lich King Normal yet due to gated content remember? If you were lucky enough to kill Normal Lich King without running out of attempts the first week he was available, that meant you had been clearing from Dec 8th up to the end of February/beginning of March. That means Heroics didn't even START until 3 months into the tier.

Couple that with LK being tremendously harder than anything else in the tier and yes you only had 859 Heroic LK (25) kills after 9 months of 25man Heroic Raiding, but about 5x that many were sitting at LK not even bothering anymore content with 11/12H. Most guilds didn't even push him while he was 10%-25% knowing that 30% was coming soon, guilds that likely could have gotten him in the 15%-25% range.

And the appropriate number of Madness kills for this comparison is 204 after 2.5 months of Heroic 25man Raiding.

Try again.

Originally Posted by Dch48

That's just plain bull. It doesn't spit in the face of anybody. They know what they did. What difference does it make what anybody else does?

The diff is they wont feel superior and wont be able to wipe their achieves in the faces of other to get their undeserved ego boost.

stop crying. haha really tho..turn it off if you don't want to make it easier for you, there's no point in acting like you are competing with any other person in the game to down this content. Plenty of people have had their kills way long ago, so I hate to be the one that breaks it to ya, but if you consider yourself a serious raider and still haven't downed the content then you might want to re-evaluate your skill level before becoming a spokesman for everyone else.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=109251/...of-the-aspects
Buff goes all the way up to 35%. Which lands us in August, perfect time for the month - 2 Month Pre MoP patch with a September or Early October launch.

Yes DS is going to last a long time. Yes LOL -35% hp and damage.

Originally Posted by kingj56

The diff is they wont feel superior and wont be able to wipe their achieves in the faces of other to get their undeserved ego boost.

So true. These are the same people who don't dive off the high board until they're sure people are watching. Stop measuring your self-worth through the eyes of others.

Well after beating the bosses up weekly for two months, of course they're going to be getting lower on health and damage. Jeez.