MMO-Champion - Cataclysm Post Mortem - Dungeons and Raids, Darkmoon Faire Issues, MMO Report
Update - We just received the following message from Blizzard - "Soon we fly together again…"



Cataclysm Post Mortem - Dungeons and Raids with Scott “Daelo” Mercer
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
As a part of our post mortem series on Cataclysm, we sat down with World of Warcraft Lead Encounter Designer Scott “Daelo” Mercer to hear his thoughts on Cataclysm dungeons and raids.

Q. What were your main goals going into Cataclysm?
We really wanted to make sure we were creating new challenges, strong mechanics, and cool creatures while staying true to the expansion and the themes we wanted to carry out. The three raid dungeons came out well and we had a lot of fun bringing the story of Nefarian and the Twilight’s Hammer to life. We were also able to add some dynamic mechanics in Throne of the Four Winds, which featured players moving across multiple platforms.


Q. How did this evolve over the various content patches?
Zul’Gurub and Zul’Aman were entertaining raids with diverse mechanics, and they translated well when we converted them into Heroic dungeons for patch 4.1. Interesting mechanics and features that once were restricted to raids are now finding their way into our five-player dungeons.

Adding the Dungeon Journal in patch 4.2 was also a major step forward. We wanted to be able to share more information in the game so that players wouldn’t feel the need to go look everything up on external websites. While those sites are great at what they do, we felt like we needed to try to alleviate the need to go out of the game to find the information players wanted to see.

The addition of Raid Finder in patch 4.3 also opened up more opportunities for players to be able to experience our raid content. The feature has proven to be extremely popular, and not just with people who had given up on raiding. Many players use Raid Finder to gear up their secondary characters, gain Valor for the week, or just because it’s fun.

Q. What do you think worked best?
We’ve been reasonably successful with our tuning across all four raid difficulty modes. There were a few warts here and there, but we delivered on the idea that 10-player and 25-player raids could exist at a similar difficulty. We also had some memorable dungeons and cinematic moments in Cataclysm. I’m particularly fond of the interactive bombing run in Grim Batol involving the red drakes. Players really got a sense of the epic scale of Grim Batol, and how well they performed in the event could make clearing the rest of the dungeon much easier.


With our improved tools and the experience we’ve gained over the years, we’ve become better at finding ways to explain the mechanics of our encounters. Our bosses do a better job of warning players of incoming threats. In Dragon Soul we also began to better inform players of mechanics that caused them to die. Providing a better understanding of the encounters to players is an important goal. We feel that losing to a boss and not understanding why is frustrating, just as beating a boss and not understanding why you won is not as satisfying.

Q. What didn’t work out as planned or expected?
Initially, we started off the Heroic dungeons at too high of a difficulty. The difficulty level rather abruptly changed when compared to the Heroics players experienced at the end of Wrath of the Lich King. This major change caught many players off guard, and frustrated some of them. The difficulty also increased the effective amount of time required to complete a dungeon to a longer experience than we wanted. With the release of patch 4.3 we’re now in a much better place. We’ve always talked about being able to complete a dungeon over lunch, and the Hour of Twilight dungeons get us back to that goal. End Time, Well of Eternity, and Hour of Twilight all provide epic play experiences to our players, but at the real sweet spot of difficulty, complexity, and time commitment.

Q. Was there anything that surprised you about how players reacted to a particular encounter?

Not particularly. Something we’ve learned over the years is to expect the unexpected. The community is very creative and intelligent. The most important thing for us is that players are having fun. They often find interesting ways of approaching things that maybe we didn’t expect, but as long the creative solution is still fun for everyone, we usually don’t have a problem with it.

Q. What have you learned from Cataclysm and what are some of your top goals for Mists of Pandaria?
We learned we could create a crazy encounter like the Spine of Deathwing. It took a lot of hard work from the whole team and it was a difficult design challenge to tackle. How do you orchestrate a fight on the back of a gigantic flying dragon without inducing nausea? How do we make sure you feel like you’re on Deathwing? Delivering that experience was really important and everyone wanted the opportunity to work on it. What was really great was that we launched the story of Cataclysm with the cinematic that showed Deathwing having his elementium plates being put on, then we end the expansion with those very same plates being torn off. It gives some real closure to storyline.


For Mists of Pandaria, we will continue to provide new dungeons and raids while also presenting interesting new types of content in the form of challenge modes and scenarios. Players will also be introduced to new enemies in the Sha, Mogu, and Mantids. Making those creatures come to life will be a lot of fun.

Q. Do you have a favorite dungeon or encounter from Cataclysm?
There are so many. The Conclave of Wind was a great one. Working out interesting mechanics that allowed players to go from platform to platform was a lot of fun and the environment felt really epic. A fight like that was a goal of the encounter team for a very long time.

Blackwing Descent was another favorite and working out the mechanics for the Atramedes fight gave us a lot to think about. How do you create an encounter with a blind dragon that fights? So we gave him sonar and showed the interaction with a sound meter on the player’s UI.


In Bastion of Twilight, we really got to sell the corruption angle on Cho’gall which made for another really interesting fight.

Q. Is there a certain mechanic that you always wanted to do but couldn’t do prior to Cataclysm?
Not really. There are so many cool ideas to work with that I never feel held back. It’s easy to be creatively inspired by the people around you and their energy. It’s never a problem of coming up with ideas. It’s usually deciding which ones we want to go with next, but the possibilities are endless.

Q. Do you have a “dream” dungeon or encounter that you’d like to create if you had the opportunity?
I’ve never felt that I haven’t been able to do the things I want to do. Everyone on the team is completely dedicated to giving us unlimited opportunities to make epic and awesome experiences. But, if I have to mention something, it would be huge giant death robots. We had Mimiron in Ulduar, but you just can’t have too many death robots.

Thank you for your time, Scott.
You’re welcome.

Discuss the latest Cataclysm Post Mortem here.

Darkmoon Faire Issues
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker)
February’s Darkmoon Faire achievement progress status was cleared prior to the launch of March's faire. Any achievements that were started but not completed have had their criteria reset. Completed achievements are unaffected. We previously announced that this was resolved for this month and going forward, unfortunately, that did not happen and this is still being investigated for a resolution.

The following achievements are most likely impacted:

Darkmoon Defender
Darkmoon Dungeoneer
Darkmoon Despoiler

Regrettably, we are not able to restore any progress you may have made during February's faire. We understand the impact this may have had and sincerely apologize for any inconvenience caused.

Curse March Gaming Bracket Challenge - Round 2!
The March Gaming Bracket Challenge presented by Curse and Alienware is a tournament that pits video game characters against one another for multiple rounds of voting!

Each week in March we will be matching up characters from all ends of the gaming universe; from Skyrim to Starcraft, WoW to Minecraft. Selection of the characters that make it through to the next round is up to you since your votes decide who rises up and who falls in this arena! You can see the full bracket here.

Each week we are giving away one Alienware X51 (US residents only), so don't forget to enter to win and vote for your favorite characters.



MMO-Report
The MMO Report has a special episode about RIFT this week!

This article was originally published in forum thread: Cataclysm Post Mortem - Dungeons and Raids, Darkmoon Faire Issues, MMO Report started by chaud View original post
Comments 371 Comments
  1. Kharsta's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by skycaptain View Post
    IMO Grim Batol was a failure in comparison to Wintergrasp

    EDIT: I was thinking of that prison
    Fuck vehicle combat, it was too fucked up in badly populated realms
  1. cateran100's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    Cthun pre nerf was not close to imposible, it was imposible, that's why it was nerfed, so that doesnt count.

    And yes, Ragnaros was harder than LK, close but harder. Spine might be close.

    Anyway, if you want i change the statement to Ragnaros, LK and Spine were the most difficult fight in the history of wow, the point of my post stands.

    ---------- Post added 2012-03-07 at 09:17 AM ----------



    Why has he go to normal? You go raiding if you want to spend hours doing challenghing content, most of us want heroic dungeons to be fast and the HoT heroics were by far the best heroics in the expansion for many of us.

    Initial Cataclysm heroic dungeons sucked for most people.

    No offense but stop thinking only about yourself, you do are an elitists, even if you play very few hours. Elitist is not about how many hours you play (thats what hardcore stands), elitists is about the exact attitude you have, asking content to be made to cater to a few elite minority instead of to the non elite mayority..

    ---------- Post added 2012-03-07 at 09:19 AM ----------



    You wont have to carry anyone, because despite the minority not liking it, Blizzard already said that heroic dungeons will be Wrath difficult in MoP, because they realize that most of us want that and not being 2 hours in a stupid heroic dungeon.
    You should drop that awfull attitude you have.
    The only flaw with your logic is the raid can be stopped anywhere and continue it whenever you wants (you can lock it for the eternity..) A HEROIC instance as the name implies must be something which is HARD..that`s why it`s HEROIC and not NORMAL....And sorry..I`m not crying for example about the raids because if i don`t have TIME to play or DO IT, then it`s not my concern..(If you have just 20 mins to play a proper football match with your friends, should you lobby for the shortened matches?(down from 2x45 mins to 2x10?) Or -make it faster and easier- want to allow your team to use their hands too, not just their feet?
    Edit: If I -with my poor abilities- did not find them impossible or even hard, then everybody else who did it must be a really, really bad player...I know where is my place, I`m lightyears away to be a good player, but even for me, most of the instances were medium challenge (except a few bosses or few parts partially thx to the mechanism, partially thx to my skills) Ohh in the forst time ofc most of them was "hard" or the word unknown and stranger fits more..but after a couple of times almost everything went smooth ( I remember when every group disbanded in lk, when the system put them into oculus..it was too "hard" for the majority..yeah pressing 3 buttons is kinda hard...If you take some time and read carefully what the skills says was easy to realize..it`s easy...Just most of the ppl (including you) like to be pampered...Why don`t you suggest to Blizz to automatically send via mail an epic loot to everybody in every week..Just imagine how much time what you can save with that, instead of farming in instances or just simply put the vp into maximum immediately as the week starts...
  1. riptal's Avatar
    So the only thing wrong with Cataclysm was the Heroic dungeons being too hard??? I tought it was the only thing right! I dont know this guy but I already hate himThanks for your "Cataclysm is perfect" answers! Now I'm really afraid of MoP!
  1. cateran100's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Keristrasza View Post
    3 dungeons for a normal is not considered good content, nor is it something I would suggest for "Anyone" to pay, same 3 vs all the others + new that had no normal setting like in Wrath was the biggest fail this game could have offered. I have also played 7 years, hated all the dungeons in Vanilla because they were time consuming. The only enjoyment I get is from a raid, dungeons are poor content fillers that shouldn't even be given the time of day for "Challenge" people who need a challenge either Raid, PVP, or go for crazy achievements. Dungeons as a whole are boring, lack luster, and the faster I can clear it the sooner I can stop wanting to request a pvp option against my own faction members for being retards.

    I'm actually*grateful*for the last 3 dungeons because I can skip the entire slew of rubbish that they chucked at us from the start of this one, and even more thankful that in MoP the idea of dungeons being "normal for easy, heroic for hard" is being changed to "Normal for leveling, heroic for gearing to get into the true end game content raiding." *I also want to think you for not being snarky like most are when it comes to this apparent sensitive topic. One reason why I rarely comment back to others is because 9 times outta 10 someone is trying to pick a fight over an opinion like its a fact. =]
    Just think over again about the normal dungeons..hint: there is more than 3 normal.ohh the last ones hc only..arrgh damn...shit happens...
    "hated all the dungeons in Vanilla because they were time consuming" Oops..sorry,never thought some1 forced you to do them and do not quit whenever you wants...Other words: You had time for raiding and everything else, but not for instances? May i call that BS? Not to mention if some1 finds a 5 men hard, what the hell he wants in a raid?
    Edit: However I blame blizzard because of the poor nonfighting, non-instances, nonraiding content..basically nothing exist in the game over the raiding (in pve ofc) As far i can see 3 things what pve ppl can do nowadays: raids, alt, farming....
  1. Crashdummy's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by cateran100 View Post
    The only flaw with your logic is the raid can be stopped anywhere and continue it whenever you wants (you can lock it for the eternity..) A HEROIC instance as the name implies must be something which is HARD..that`s why it`s HEROIC and not NORMAL....And sorry..I`m not crying for example about the raids because if i don`t have TIME to play or DO IT, then it`s not my concern..(If you have just 20 mins to play a proper football match with your friends, should you lobby for the shortened matches?(down from 2x45 mins to 2x10?) Or -make it faster and easier- want to allow your team to use their hands too, not just their feet?
    Edit: If I -with my poor abilities- did not find them impossible or even hard, then everybody else who did it must be a really, really bad player...I know where is my place, I`m lightyears away to be a good player, but even for me, most of the instances were medium challenge (except a few bosses or few parts partially thx to the mechanism, partially thx to my skills) Ohh in the forst time ofc most of them was "hard" or the word unknown and stranger fits more..but after a couple of times almost everything went smooth ( I remember when every group disbanded in lk, when the system put them into oculus..it was too "hard" for the majority..yeah pressing 3 buttons is kinda hard...If you take some time and read carefully what the skills says was easy to realize..it`s easy...Just most of the ppl (including you) like to be pampered...Why don`t you suggest to Blizz to automatically send via mail an epic loot to everybody in every week..Just imagine how much time what you can save with that, instead of farming in instances or just simply put the vp into maximum immediately as the week starts...
    There is no flaw in my logic. Heroic doesnt mean hard, Heroic means they are harder than their normal counterparts, only that. Heroic dungeons in Wrath were harder than the normal counterparts. You are adding your definition for something that simply doesnt have that definition.

    What does the posibility to stop and continue a raid has anything to do with what we are discussing here?

    If i have only 20 minutes to play football with my friends, then we play a game in those 20 minutes (2x10), simply. We dont stay without playing just because someone thinks that game should only be long.

    You still dont get it, right? Yes, people are worse at this game than you, MOST people found heroic dungeons at the start of Cata hard. Congratz for you not finding them hard. You are in the vast minority. MANY MORE PEOPLE than those that found it hard (that means people that didnt find them hard) found them excesively long and boring.

    Shoulod the heroics be tuned to the VERY VAST SMALL MINORITY which you are part of or should them be tuned to a much bigger audience? I think they should be tuned to a bigger audience than your little elitists club.

    I quitted the group every time in occulus, not because it was hard, but because i choose a class to play that class, not to play a dragon. So maybe your groups disbanded for something else than what you thought it happened, but you love to draw conclusions based on no evidence apparently. Occulus was boring, and since i dont like to play boring dungeons and the other dungeons were simply GREAT, i simply leave thegroup and queue again, because i play the game to HAVE FUN, go figure.

    Most people dont like to be pampered, most people play this game TO HAVE FUN, and when the dungeons Blizzard gives to them, ARE NOT FUN then they tell Blizzard that the dungeons are not fun.

    Ahh, the items sent via mail stupid argument again, i am not surprised that you make that argument. People want to play the game and have fun, they dont want a second job, and they dont want items to be sent via mail, apparently you dont have the ability to distinguish between both, which is easy for me, but its too hard for you. Maybe you should try to excersice your intellect so you can understand simple reasoning instead of just being good at WoW.

    P.S: I heard its too hard to write with proper punctuation marks and using paragraphs. Different people are skilled in different things.

    ---------- Post added 2012-03-07 at 03:53 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by cateran100 View Post
    Just think over again about the normal dungeons..hint: there is more than 3 normal.ohh the last ones hc only..arrgh damn...shit happens...
    "hated all the dungeons in Vanilla because they were time consuming" Oops..sorry,never thought some1 forced you to do them and do not quit whenever you wants...Other words: You had time for raiding and everything else, but not for instances? May i call that BS? Not to mention if some1 finds a 5 men hard, what the hell he wants in a raid?
    Edit: However I blame blizzard because of the poor nonfighting, non-instances, nonraiding content..basically nothing exist in the game over the raiding (in pve ofc) As far i can see 3 things what pve ppl can do nowadays: raids, alt, farming....
    Think again about the normal dungeons, there were only 3 lvl 85 normal dungeons hint: Throne of the tides, stonecore, vortex pinnacle normals were not lvl 85.
  1. zezel81's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    There is no flaw in my logic. Heroic doesnt mean hard, Heroic means they are harder than their normal counterparts, only that. Heroic dungeons in Wrath were harder than the normal counterparts. You are adding your definition for something that simply doesnt have that definition.

    What does the posibility to stop and continue a raid has anything to do with what we are discussing here?

    If i have only 20 minutes to play football with my friends, then we play a game in those 20 minutes (2x10), simply. We dont stay without playing just because someone thinks that game should only be long.

    You still dont get it, right? Yes, people are worse at this game than you, MOST people found heroic dungeons at the start of Cata hard. Congratz for you not finding them hard. You are in the vast minority. MANY MORE PEOPLE than those that found it hard (that means people that didnt find them hard) found them excesively long and boring.

    Shoulod the heroics be tuned to the VERY VAST SMALL MINORITY which you are part of or should them be tuned to a much bigger audience? I think they should be tuned to a bigger audience than your little elitists club.

    I quitted the group every time in occulus, not because it was hard, but because i choose a class to play that class, not to play a dragon. So maybe your groups disbanded for something else than what you thought it happened, but you love to draw conclusions based on no evidence apparently. Occulus was boring, and since i dont like to play boring dungeons and the other dungeons were simply GREAT, i simply leave thegroup and queue again, because i play the game to HAVE FUN, go figure.

    Most people dont like to be pampered, most people play this game TO HAVE FUN, and when the dungeons Blizzard gives to them, ARE NOT FUN then they tell Blizzard that the dungeons are not fun.

    Ahh, the items sent via mail stupid argument again, i am not surprised that you make that argument. People want to play the game and have fun, they dont want a second job, and they dont want items to be sent via mail, apparently you dont have the ability to distinguish between both, which is easy for me, but its too hard for you. Maybe you should try to excersice your intellect so you can understand simple reasoning instead of just being good at WoW.

    P.S: I heard its too hard to write with proper punctuation marks and using paragraphs. Different people are skilled in different things.

    ---------- Post added 2012-03-07 at 03:53 PM ----------



    Think again about the normal dungeons, there were only 3 lvl 85 normal dungeons hint: Throne of the tides, stonecore, vortex pinnacle normals were not lvl 85.
    Yes, heroic means hard mode (google if your IQ can't define it). I am not trying to be mean just like the last guy it wrote to you. I just have to ask why would you buy a game that everything kills itself? As in foot ball you would just quit right? well same with WoW you can quit playing after 20mins (MMO you can't pause sorry). Even Blizz makes it easy ppl will still die and find it hard then it will get nerf to where the bosses just fall over. I seen to many players that do have the right gear on for their spec, no gems, no enchants, and then stand in the fire when it is bright purple. Blizz can't make ppl smarter so i guess they will just have let the boss just die. I seen LFR wipe on the first boss of DS (all dps was putting out 8k to 12k dps) I was tank with 15k dps.
  1. Redblade's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    If i have only 20 minutes to play football with my friends, then we play a game in those 20 minutes (2x10), simply. We dont stay without playing just because someone thinks that game should only be long.

    Shoulod the heroics be tuned to the VERY VAST SMALL MINORITY which you are part of or should them be tuned to a much bigger audience? I think they should be tuned to a bigger audience than your little elitists club.
    And this is where the problem lies, you think it should be tuned and catered to your group that has a lack of time and or skill with no understanding that the players that don't have those issues are left with little to no content at all, sadly Blizzards metrics apparently supported the majority on that and went with just such a design. I believe that is one of the major reasons Blizzard is losing subscribers, now where will the game end up once enough of the "elitist" players have left and everything is made so convenient that you can log in 20-40min 2-3 days a week and achieve everything and gain the best rewards, to me that is as interesting as any flash game you can play in your browser, why would I subscribe to that.
  1. TanqueDrakkari's Avatar
    PLEASE, read the GC Post Mortem. Yes, I said it!
  1. Crashdummy's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by zezel81 View Post
    Yes, heroic means hard mode (google if your IQ can't define it). I am not trying to be mean just like the last guy it wrote to you. I just have to ask why would you buy a game that everything kills itself? As in foot ball you would just quit right? well same with WoW you can quit playing after 20mins (MMO you can't pause sorry). Even Blizz makes it easy ppl will still die and find it hard then it will get nerf to where the bosses just fall over. I seen to many players that do have the right gear on for their spec, no gems, no enchants, and then stand in the fire when it is bright purple. Blizz can't make ppl smarter so i guess they will just have let the boss just die. I seen LFR wipe on the first boss of DS (all dps was putting out 8k to 12k dps) I was tank with 15k dps.
    Heroic means harder than a non heroic thing, heroic dungeons in Wrath WERE harder than normal. Heroic is a relative term, not an absolute one. I think you have to learn a lot of thing before talking about others IQ.

    Things arent killing themselves, thats where your argunment is failing. There is a HUGE gap between things killing themslves and things beign hard to 90% of the playerbase. HUGE GAP.

    ---------- Post added 2012-03-08 at 09:49 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    And this is where the problem lies, you think it should be tuned and catered to your group that has a lack of time and or skill with no understanding that the players that don't have those issues are left with little to no content at all, sadly Blizzards metrics apparently supported the majority on that and went with just such a design. I believe that is one of the major reasons Blizzard is losing subscribers, now where will the game end up once enough of the "elitist" players have left and everything is made so convenient that you can log in 20-40min 2-3 days a week and achieve everything and gain the best rewards, to me that is as interesting as any flash game you can play in your browser, why would I subscribe to that.
    I think heroic dungeons should be tuned so most of the playerbase dont find them frustrating, yes. You think most of the playerbase needs to be frustrated in heroic dungeons so that you can have fun in them. We think differently.

    Blizzard lost the amount of subscribers they lost BECAUSE they increased difficulty from Wrath. They have the data, they know what do people leaving have done, they have the observations people leaving left in the leaving form. If people were leaving because the game is getting too easy, they wouldnt be thinking in making it easier.

    This isnt a problem with having no skil, you completely missed the point.

    Real hardcore people are worried about heroic raiding, not heroic dungeons. Only wannabe elitists care about how hard a 5 man heroic dungeon is.

    People that log 40 mins 2-3 days a week havent asked to achieve everything in the game, you like overexxagerate things, dont you?

    People logging 40 mins 2-3 days a week have the right to achieve SOMETHING, and not just pay so that you can enjoy the game while they get constantly frustrated.

    if you think Wrath was a web browser game, then i feel sorry for you because you cant have an objective vision of what we are talking about here.
  1. Redblade's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    I think heroic dungeons should be tuned so most of the playerbase dont find them frustrating, yes. You think most of the playerbase needs to be frustrated in heroic dungeons so that you can have fun in them. We think differently.
    That's why there was normal/heroic, the major difference was in fact that one dropped epics and one didn't, once you stop looking at the gear as a reward but a tool to achieve what's next on the progression path it makes more sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    Blizzard lost the amount of subscribers they lost BECAUSE they increased difficulty from Wrath. They have the data, they know what do people leaving have done, they have the observations people leaving left in the leaving form. If people were leaving because the game is getting too easy, they wouldnt be thinking in making it easier.
    You have any source to back up a statement like that? I clearly said that it was just my belief that it was one of the reasons, you some how dismiss that as if you had factual knowledge, I know why I left and why some of my friends left.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    This isnt a problem with having no skil, you completely missed the point.
    Hence why I said and or, perhaps I should have made it more clear by saying and/or.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    Real hardcore people are worried about heroic raiding, not heroic dungeons. Only wannabe elitists care about how hard a 5 man heroic dungeon is.
    Hence why I quit as the heroic content was nerfed once again to make room for the 'general masses', and to say that hardcores are not allowed to care about 5man content shows how 'me me me' oriented you are, perhaps they want challenging 5mans to do outside of raiding, this is a common way of trying to argue this, the people lower on the totem pole wants what's designed for the people above them but gives no consideration to the fact that the top end content is shrinking as a consequence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    People that log 40 mins 2-3 days a week havent asked to achieve everything in the game, you like overexxagerate things, dont you?

    People logging 40 mins 2-3 days a week have the right to achieve SOMETHING, and not just pay so that you can enjoy the game while they get constantly frustrated.
    And that would be just fine, that's not how current game design is though is it, and a lot of people would argue that any nerf to let them have the purple was a good thing, the fact is that Blizzard continue to use the content that is designed for the people that want a challenge with appropriate reward for said challenge as additional content for the players that already had LFR and normal modes as their content.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    if you think Wrath was a web browser game, then i feel sorry for you because you cant have an objective vision of what we are talking about here.
    Wrath was alright bar ToC and the dragged out ICC, and don't get me wrong, non nerfed ICC heroic was alright in it self just lasted way to long, doubt anyone would disagree to that. What we are going towards if the trend continues though is the same gratification that a browser flash game would give, perhaps not the players that struggle in normal or the LFR players, the once doing well in normals and heroics are simple being robbed of their content unless they raid X amount of hours Z amount of days in the week to clear it before nerfs, literally forced to play more than they want if they want the challenge.
  1. Slappers's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    And for many people, old cata heroics weren't challenging in mechanics or anything of the sort, it was more of a difficulty of not getting grouped with retards. Which many of us who do enjoy challenge, actually don't enjoy.
    When I got grped with retards, I carried the grp, challenge accepted. Then again, I dont mind not seeing challenges from heroic, as heroics are old content for hardcore players, it was boring after TBC was done, my problem with Cata was the lack of proper new features. They were too busy revamping low level zones to invest time into wtf was supposed to happen at 85.

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